During the October event period, the Escaped Moon Bunny world boss spawns at the following times:

NA West: 02:30 AM - 05:30 AM UTC
NA East: 11:30 PM - 02:30 AM UTC
South America: 10:30 PM - 01:30 AM UTC
Europe: 5:30 PM - 8:30 PM UTC
Oceania: 08:30 AM – 11:30 AM UTC

Color Slider instead of Unlockable Colors?

NekkoalaNekkoala
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edited 5:23AM July 25, 2018 in Suggestions and Feedback
DQlddlt.jpg

As some might know, KMS got rid of unlockable colors in favor of a color slider.
The color slider is vastly superior in terms of customization options compared to the current system.
Some (very ugly) examples of what's possible: 1, 2

The system we currently use is extremely limited, both in color variety and in actually unlocking those colors.
Some of the requirements for unlocking certain colors, such as having to level a class, having to max a certain type of gathering, or doing 1k pvps, are counter-intuitive to the game's style which heavily focuses on its customization aspect.
NyuraArviuKhrisisLucisSnackCakesidontreallyknowmanXeXeeDMidbossSeasiderVixieand 1 other.

Comments

  • DanDKDanDK
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    As we previously discussed on Discord, I prefer retaining the unlockable colours in order to have something to show for various achievements in the game, and the fact that most unlockable colours can be approximated by other colour combinations, so it shouldn't feel too restrictive.

    However, there are also possible compromises since various outfits and patterns are already locked behind achievements so freeing up the dye colours wouldn't necessarily be a large issue. Personally I still prefer it as it is though.

    In both cases, I remember we agree that it should always cost Mesos only to change colours, as it is a silly thing to charge Merets for.
    BunnehUnlimitedVerlo
  • NyuraNyura
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    Well if this feature exists in KMS2, I assume it exists for a reason, and I can definitely see why we would be better off with a color slider rather than color dyes.

    We are indeed playing a game that relies a lot on character (and all kinds of) customization, so restricting these things and limiting them behind color blocks feels like something that shouldn't exist. People who are very into creating fashion designs, customizing their character to resemble a beloved character from an anime or show or whatever, people in general who are more particular about anything artistic, I can very much understand how all such people would find it very important for them to have the proper shade of the specific color that serves their purpose. I mean, sometimes, when your color palette is limited, you're left with only ugly shades and whatnot, so I can't say I find it sufficient.

    Color dyes, even the ones you have to unlock, are still more limited in variation than a bonafide color slider. While personally I don't mind having to achieve something to unlock a certain color, I really cannot feel it appropriate to restrict colors behind a specific class-related achievement. It's not even about effort or determination at that point, it just becomes a chore because you are forced to level up a class you may not like at all. So then, the game would just be taking away from your fun because the color you want is locked behind a class you don't like. Personally, I feel like people who are achievement hunters would be happier to display their achievements via something more "visible", so to say, than a mere shade of a color. I find it to be more fitting to give people unique class-specific titles for hitting 50 with their class, and the same goes for doing 1000 PvPs and the like.

    Now obviously each person is different and values things differently, but at least imo, something like that would feel more rewarding. None of these things have to be compromised in the end. We could get the color slider while the achievements start giving different rewards instead. That ought to make everybody happy.
    As for color-change payment, wellp, we all agree mesos should always be the required payment for changing colors.
    LucisSnackCakesNimero
  • ArviuArviu
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    I agree to the idea of having sliders since it gives way more possible colors compared to the few fixed ones we have currently. Even though the achievements work as well it is just ridiculous to hide colors behind achievements that require you to do unbearable things. For example there are colors locked hind entering the pocket realm 1,000 times which could take years to finish if someone is particular unlucky.

    I can understand that collecting trophies is one of the main topics of this game but if that is something that limits customization I definitely prefer the sliders.
    NyuraVixieSnackCakes
  • jking56jking56
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    edited 6:59PM July 27, 2018
    I think a slider works a lot better. I was in the dye shop experimenting with the gradients and thought it would be nice if there was a black/green gradient and couldn't even find it in the options at all (might of been a different gradient, just threw out a random one off the top of my head) and then for some of the gradients I had unlocked I thought it would be nice if the colors were just inverted, but I saw no way of doing that.

    It is possible to have a color slider and some special colors that can be unlocked through achievement to satisfy the people that like the current system. For example there are special shades of black and white that can currently be unlocked like pure white, pure black, and charcoal black. These special colors (could even be special patterns) don't really have to be on the color slider and can just be options off to the side that need to be unlocked, but there are already options available similar to them so we aren't losing out on customization options.
    SnackCakesNimero
  • JetUppercutJetUppercut
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    edited 1:55AM July 28, 2018
    The colour slider should only be single channel and all the unlockable dyes should be dual colour. That way people can make their characters any colour they want easily, but if they want a specific dual colour dye they have to play for it.
    Maybe have the 100% saturation colours locked as well. So no pure white/black/red etc. without working for it.
    Because I like the current system but a lot of the dye colours that are locked kind of don't make any sense being locked.
    YaeDanDKArviu
  • KhrisisKhrisis
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    edited 8:41AM July 28, 2018
    I really hope they give us the color sliders instead of this current garbage with achievements that would take years to get for one color. One of the achievements for light gray (I think it was light gray) is stay logged in for 8760 hours in total which is 365 days. 1k PvP fights when one match happens every 4 minutes will take what, 66,66 hours of just waiting in total for the matches + of course each match lasts a different length of time so can't really say what the exact amount of hours needed is, since it varies. And since many of the achievements (even the staying logged in one it seems) are character bound, not account bound, getting them is even bigger chore.

    Why on earth anyone would pick that over literally unlimited colors by sliders is beyond me. Achievements still include titles and some have item rewards so it's not like colors were the only achievement reward to exist. There are certainly multiple color combinations we will never be able to get with just these options we currently have.
    NekkoalaLucisNyuraArviuSnackCakesSeasiderVerlo
  • MochaLatteMochaLatte
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    edited 11:22AM July 28, 2018
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the reason for the limited colors, was to justify removing the real $ cost from dye/hair/eye color changes (that exist in KMS2 and K/GMS1)... It's in OPs screenshots, looks like $1.70 in merets just for a color change (vs 10-20k meso we pay). In MS1 it's almost $5 to change your hair color, $1.50 to change your eye color. That stomps on creativity, even more so if it applied to gear dyes, as I believe it did judging by the existence of gear dye vouchers.

    I prefer having colors as achievements and the changes being essentially free, it would even make me buy more outfit pieces because I know I could make them work in different ways being able to swap the colors of everything at will. What we have are presets for the underlying color-code system, and that means they could add many more presets in future updates. It's even something they could advertise in new patch previews to get the interest of the more cosmetic/creative-focused players.

    The only real problem, is that the unlock requirements need a second look over. Some of the objectives are extremely long, and while they would be reasonable if they were tracked across the whole account, most of them are character-specific, making them absolutely ridiculous. Each character having a playtime trophy that maxes out at 20,000 hours or whatever is completely fine, it doesn't matter to anything, but then when you tie that trophy to a dye/item/AP/SP/etc, all of a sudden it does matter and it's completely unobtainable, not once but 11+ times over to have it on each of the character classes.

    It would be really great if they could change the requirements to as many account-wide trophies as possible (even if you make them a bit harder to compensate), rethink the most extreme ones ESPECIALLY if those remain character-specific, and to plan to release more colors with updates (even have fun with it, maybe community submissions or polls?).
    DanDK
  • UnlimitedUnlimited
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    edited 2:42PM July 28, 2018
    DanDK wrote: »
    As we previously discussed on Discord, I prefer retaining the unlockable colours in order to have something to show for various achievements in the game, and the fact that most unlockable colours can be approximated by other colour combinations, so it shouldn't feel too restrictive.

    However, there are also possible compromises since various outfits and patterns are already locked behind achievements so freeing up the dye colours wouldn't necessarily be a large issue. Personally I still prefer it as it is though.

    In both cases, I remember we agree that it should always cost Mesos only to change colours, as it is a silly thing to charge Merets for.

    I fully agree with this, except I really hate the system in this game that forces you to play other classes (they did it in MS1 and they are doing it again here).
    With so little rewarding mechanics that we have in this game, I think we should give some into it, like this unlock-able colors for hair/eyes/etc.
    Which would you rather prefer? To give this color-slider to customization(which we already have too much for this game) or to give it to rewarding mechanics that we have to earn(since rewarding-experience is lacking in this game)?
    Rewards is not just something that we convince ourselves, it's also something that we should be able to show to people(bragging-rights).
    I will tell you again; we have so little rewarding systems in this game. Too little that it's starting to feel like I'm playing an online social-platform.

    I would rather that we keep the color-slider as a rewarding system. There is too little rewarding systems in this game. If that is not the case, I wouldn't mind!
    GloomEnchantedLucisWarmthBoundlessSnackCakesDanDKSeasider
  • NyuraNyura
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    edited 6:02AM July 29, 2018
    Unlimited wrote: »


    Which would you rather prefer? To give this color-slider to customization(which we already have too much for this game) or to give it to rewarding mechanics that we have to earn(since rewarding-experience is lacking in this game)?

    "which we already have too much for this game"

    I don't know why I'm replying to this even, knowing who the poster is, but either way, I don't think you know what kind of a game you're playing if you can even think of claiming there is "too much customization" in MapleStory. That's the entire point.

    Also, you want things to be rewarding and to show off your achievements? Well, if you think that anybody's going to know that you made the super great totally-not-rng achievement of entering 1000 pocket realms just because you wear a specific color dye on your character, you're greatly mistaken. Most people haven't the slightest clue where specific color shades come from and wouldn't even care to stop and think about where you got your color from. You definitely aren't getting anything like: "Oh hey, this dood has color x on them, they must be so cool, doing this super hard achievement!" because most people don't even know that's a thing or that the specific color is related to that specific achievement.

    I think you must be greatly deluded if you believe that something more tangible like a title is going to be less effective for a visible reward than an obscure color dye that people only know/care about if they themselves are interested in getting that color.


    Either way, the dual color dyes we currently have are already so limited, there are so many other color combinations that we could get only via a color slider. The only thing I'd agree on is that I would rather keep the color dyes if there's no way to get a color slider without the currency changing from mesos to merets.
    NekkoalaArviuKhrisisSnackCakes
  • SnackCakesSnackCakes
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    The colour slider should only be single channel and all the unlockable dyes should be dual colour. That way people can make their characters any colour they want easily, but if they want a specific dual colour dye they have to play for it.
    Maybe have the 100% saturation colours locked as well. So no pure white/black/red etc. without working for it.
    Because I like the current system but a lot of the dye colours that are locked kind of don't make any sense being locked.

    I actually kind of like this idea. The single color dye achievements aren't really worth going after in my opinion, because they're both more difficult to get than the dual color dyes and I just like dual color dyes more in general. The dual color dyes also seem to be more rewarding to get, and seem to be more recognizable (in my opinion). I might be in the minority with this opinion, but I kind of like having to level all of the other classes to 50 just so I can get a hair color, same with gathering and crafting. If dual color dyes were achievement unlocked and single colors could be obtained at any time with the color wheel, I hope that achievements are made account-wide and that the tasks to get them are more balanced (1,000 pocket dimensions and 1,000 PVP battles on just one character? No thanks). I also hope that the dual color dyes have more variety in their color.
  • jking56jking56
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    The colour slider should only be single channel and all the unlockable dyes should be dual colour. That way people can make their characters any colour they want easily, but if they want a specific dual colour dye they have to play for it.
    Maybe have the 100% saturation colours locked as well. So no pure white/black/red etc. without working for it.
    Because I like the current system but a lot of the dye colours that are locked kind of don't make any sense being locked.
    I'd agree with having unlockable customization options, but it has to be reasonable. There are basically an endless number of gradients that can be made, meaning it is next to impossible to make all of them unlockable options so if we go with this system it is basically a guarantee that we are going to missing out on some choices.

    In addition to that who is to decide what gradient combination gets unlocked by what difficulty of achievement? Some acheivements currently take an absurd amount of time to complete, or rely completely on luck (maybe both). If the gradient someone wants is locked behind one of those kind of achievements it is really frustrating for no reason at all. If we really want to go with unlocking gradients then just make the gradient option unlockable itself instead of individual gradients; however, make it an account wide achievement that would take a reasonable amount of time (maybe a week if you only play like 2-4 hours a day) to complete so it only needs to be done once and you no longer need to worry about it..
  • JetUppercutJetUppercut
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    jking56 wrote: »
    I'd agree with having unlockable customization options, but it has to be reasonable. There are basically an endless number of gradients that can be made, meaning it is next to impossible to make all of them unlockable options so if we go with this system it is basically a guarantee that we are going to missing out on some choices.

    That just means there's an endless number of potential rewards for trophies. Seems totally fine to me.
    jking56 wrote: »
    In addition to that who is to decide what gradient combination gets unlocked by what difficulty of achievement?

    Nexon. Besides, this problem is more to do with the scale of reward in relation to the amount of effort required to achieve it, rather than the dyes itself. Of course getting a measly dye for doing something that will at minimum take a whole year sucks. But this would be fixed by just providing better rewards for those achievements rather than just getting rid of dyes as a reward altogether. Something easily fixed between now and release.
    SnackCakesDanDK
  • jking56jking56
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    edited 12:32PM July 30, 2018
    Honestly I think trophies should not be used to unlock customization options that can affect the look of the actual character at all, unless they are really noteworthy. Costumes, mounts, and titles are fine but things like normal dyes for recoloring equipment you already have, or for your hair should already be available, or if they must be unlocked they should be achievements you will get just for playing the game casually (but given the volume of gradients there would be I simply don't view this as a plausible option), not something that will take you going out of your way just to get (also shouldn't take a long period of time).

    That is if you are only talking about basic colors/ gradients, but if there are special colors (like the pure colors) then sure make them take a bit of effort to unlock. Could even make simple patterns like strips and camo in various colors to choose as dyes to use, but they would need to be unlocked. Maybe even making special gradients that need to be unlocked, for example a rainbow gradient.

    I simply don't view gradients as something that should be considered special, plus it is impossible to put all the choices into the game if you want them all to be locked behind trophies (not to mention all the clutter this would create, and how annoying the screen for choosing colors would be if there were that many options since it could take over an entire hour to scroll through all of the color choices, if every gradient combination was an unlockable option rather than just using a color slider), and if the current trend holds then some of them are just going to be insanely tedious/ time consuming for no real reason at all. I simply don't find any of the current dyes rewarding enough to be put behind a trophy.

    If lets say the dye behind the 1000 pvp matches trophy had an animation attached to it, maybe a curse like aura coming from whatever is dye that color, or possibly a glowing blood like color, then I'd say it is worthwhile for it to be behind such a trophy. For the dye that is unlocked by making a level 50 character for every job, if it were to have an animation that makes whatever is dyed with it come off as divine (such as a pure white light coming off it) then I'd probably say the achievement to unlock it is too easy to unlock it. (from a realistic point of view, if dyes like these were introduced into the game, I feel like they would be meret only options)

    To use dyes as rewards for trophies just feels lame in their current state because for the most part they are not anything that is able to really be shown off, instead this aspect just adds frustration to the game for people that want to really customize their characters with specific color schemes. If there were some more special dyes that were more boast worthy then I'd say go ahead and make them trophy rewards, but that currently isn't happening and simple 2 color gradients really don't fulfill that. I especially don't find any reason why you should have to unlock a specific gradient if you already have the 2 colors the gradient is made out of. For example If i had pure black and pure white already why should I have to get a third achievement just to have a gradient from pure white to pure black?
  • ShybzShybz
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    It would make a nice ultimate reward of sorts if obtaining every single dye unlocked the color slider.
    DanDKCavalier
  • CavalierCavalier
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    edited 2:52AM August 5, 2018
    ****** Color slider as an unlockable feature ******

    1) Shybz's idea to have a color slider as an unlockable feature could be a good option, because...

    2) Honestly, I probably wouldn't go fishing in-game if it didn't offer the two blue gradient color rewards that it does (which I believe serves as a pretty cool "trophy" for those particular accomplishments). In essence, I think having color unlocks as part of the reward system provides decent motivation. (I understand that this is personal preference, and both the way and extent to which this is valued will vary from person to person, especially in comparison to having all colors available via color slider right off the bat.) However...

    3) If option 1 was to hold true (or even if the system stays as it is), the caveat could possibly be a change alluding to what Arviu mentioned: Some of the achievements (not all of them) are a bit far-fetched, to say the least. If the unlock requirements stay as they are, unlocking a color slider being a "legendary achievement" would be an understatement. Conclusion on this point: some of the unlock requirements could, perhaps, be toned down a bit (again, only if the system stays as it is, or if a color slider becomes an unlockable feature).

    ****** Color slider as the default ******

    This would be fine, as well. I would only ask that there be a "color save" or hex color input also attached, so that one can use the exact same color(s) on different items if he/she desires it so.

    ****** System stays the same ******

    1) Again, some of the achievement requirements can still remain the same in nature, but I believe that they can be lessened (e.g., still having to enter the pocket realm, but perhaps not 1,000 times).

    2) As others on here have suggested, there seems to be feelings discontentment about the amount of color options available. That said, if the current system stays the same, another thing that can be done to alleviate this (to some degree, since I doubt any solution can reasonably bring the amount of choices as a full color slider) is to add more color gradient options as a result of completing future achievements, and/or adding color unlocks to current achievements that do not have a reward attached.

    ****** Personal statement ******

    I personally don't have a preference as to which route it goes. These are just my small, conceptual thoughts on how the aforementioned systems could be further developed.
    DanDK
  • SeasiderSeasider
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    edited 1:24PM August 5, 2018
    Sliders all the way! Being able to select specific shades and combinations would be a dream. I personally am really picky with colours that I use and as the current dye system stands, there aren't a lot of shades that sit well with me.
    Nimero
  • NimeroNimero
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    A color slider is way more superior. Being forced to unlock trophies in order to costumize our characters the way we want it is disheartening. Not only that but giving us the option to choose any color we want is a dream come true since leave tons of conbinations to choose from.
    TheChaosLegend
  • FailureFailure
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    as Korean in america playing NA server seems very mistake to repeat past offences that Nexon already learn from in Korea + SEA, so please do not silly things for sake of silly ideas from tiny portion of player base for silly reason, is very disheartening(?)

    please allow slider from start sorry for poor english 안녕 ㅇㅅㅇ
    TheChaosLegend