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[Feedback] Mushking Royale

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  • MidnightNyaMidnightNya
    Maplestory 2 Rep: 1,790
    Posts: 104
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    edited 7:53AM July 24, 2018
    I only played a little bit during the first mushking royale, here's my opinion.

    1. Auto paper plane after spring jump. If someone really cared they can unmount as necessary if they don't mind the fall damage. It's just a cheap death since there's not really any reason not to mount.
    2. Manual pick-up is fine since you might be actively competing with an enemy at the time - secondarily items give away your position in the fog of war.
    3. Skills definitely need a quick tutorial, took a few games to get it figured out and organized but I imagine it's not as easy for many other players. There's a lot of skills and items that it takes up nearly the whole hotkey bar currently - remembering where all your items/skills are will take getting used to.
    4. Healing is fine imo. You can try and heal in a fight but you can't heal-spam through skills. This also means you can't rambo safely (without a golden slime (?), haven't experienced fighting with/against the slime buff much to respond to it 'tho). Win a fight and you can pick up your opponent's healing items. You can work on healing up in preparation for the next fight and the pace isn't too terrible.
    5. A lot of moves take way too long to start-up/activate to the point they all almost feel unviable, against moves like the arcane orb and shuriken which doesn't lock your characters movement as long AND is powerful - the latter items should definitely be more rarer or re-balanced. I generally went with a shuriken -> arcane -> flame wave to initiate, and a spin or punch from there if it wasn't enough.

    6. A better emphasis/bias for rewards at towers could make it more riskier/intense. It never felt super dangerous to go to one since the first 2/3 of the game you don't tend to be near others.

    7. I didn't face against teaming, but I saw some people huddling up in one game I had. I'm not sure what can really be done about it but maybe others have ideas?

    I didn't win any games but I got some kills and they felt close so honestly I had a decent experience for what it was, but there was definitely some quirks here and there.
    BND
  • MilkTeéMilkTeé
    Maplestory 2 Rep: 1,010
    Posts: 28
    Member
    I only played a little bit during the first mushking royale, here's my opinion.

    1. Auto paper plane after spring jump. If someone really cared they can unmount as necessary if they don't mind the fall damage. It's just a cheap death since there's not really any reason not to mount.
    2. Manual pick-up is fine since you might be actively competing with an enemy at the time - secondarily items give away your position in the fog of war.
    3. Skills definitely need a quick tutorial, took a few games to get it figured out and organized but I imagine it's not as easy for many other players. There's a lot of skills and items that it takes up nearly the whole hotkey bar currently - remembering where all your items/skills are will take getting used to.
    4. Healing is fine imo. You can try and heal in a fight but you can't heal-spam through skills. This also means you can't rambo safely (without a golden slime (?), haven't experienced fighting with/against the slime buff much to respond to it 'tho). Win a fight and you can pick up your opponent's healing items. You can work on healing up in preparation for the next fight and the pace isn't too terrible.
    5. A lot of moves take way too long to start-up/activate to the point they all almost feel unviable, against moves like the arcane orb and shuriken which doesn't lock your characters movement as long AND is powerful - the latter items should definitely be more rarer or re-balanced. I generally went with a shuriken -> arcane -> flame wave to initiate, and a spin or punch from there if it wasn't enough.

    6. A better emphasis/bias for rewards at towers could make it more riskier/intense. It never felt super dangerous to go to one since the first 2/3 of the game you don't tend to be near others.

    7. I didn't face against teaming, but I saw some people huddling up in one game I had. I'm not sure what can really be done about it but maybe others have ideas?

    I didn't win any games but I got some kills and they felt close so honestly I had a decent experience for what it was, but there was definitely some quirks here and there.

    Very insightful review I like it.
    Here are a few things I would like to add:
    Sometimes you want to use the paperplane closer to the ground so it being manual is easier because if it activates automatically you need to manually deactivate it and then activate again to not take the fall damage.

    as for 5 and 6

    5. There is a reason why some moves have a long startup so that you can interrupt them and also it prevents combos being 100% true which is obviously not fun if you get hit by 1 move followed by 4 different moves without being able to defend yourself.

    6. Towers are doubleedge swords you can either lure your enemies by revealing your position or can make you easier for your enemies to know your position which can lead them to either cut off your path or avoid you entirely. All of the Golden treasure chests spawn in tower zones so if you see a tower stay for a long time you know for sure that someone picked up a radar. Also entering a tower zone is more dangerous than you think if your enemies actually pay attention at the minimap. There are a lot more things to go into this topic so I'll just stop right here before it gets too long.
    Xtony
  • MegaBurritoMegaBurrito
    Maplestory 2 Rep: 1,085
    Posts: 31
    Member
    After playing Mushking all last weekend, here are some things that I wanted to share.

    1. I agree with others that posted it, the spring should auto deploy the paper airplane.
    2. Throwable items like bombs should be able to be thrown from higher locations to lower ones. I could be wrong, but I don't believe it currently works like that, and just lands on the same elevation that you're on currently.
    3. I disagree that shuriken and other items like it have too long of a start up. They're very strong and require a good ambush or setup for maximum potential. I'd always try to catch someone in honey, or the magnet bomb thing before I tossed it. Or I'd just catch someone not being careful around a bush I was hidden in.
    4. I might be dumb, but I didn't know how to assign pickup to a controller. So I'd just quickly press Z on my keyboard when using a controller which isn't really optimal.
    5. I actually had a lot of fun with this game mode. I only got to Rank 68 so I wasn't competing for the top, but it really was a fun distraction from the regular game. I like the Sleepydance emote as well.
  • ExigaExiga
    Maplestory 2 Rep: 2,065
    Posts: 98
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    My main issue with Mushking Royale is the learning curve. You have a set of known skills and potions already placed on hotkeys, and in this mode everything is change from what you know, making it a somewhat different game which demands learning everything from scratch. I would rather have my personal skills, potions and mounts stay on my favorite hotkeys.
  • MarcusTherionMarcusTherion
    Maplestory 2 Rep: 700
    Posts: 15
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    Good thing they ignored absolutely everyone and kept everything exactly as it is despite having a week to fix said issues, then bringing it out with the same Leaderboards. Not sure why I expected anything different to be honest.
  • MilkTeéMilkTeé
    Maplestory 2 Rep: 1,010
    Posts: 28
    Member
    edited 12:13PM July 28, 2018
    WHY would you guys take out more than half of the abilities but KEEP the rankings the same??! its a totally different game!!
  • biskobisko
    Maplestory 2 Rep: 1,325
    Posts: 26
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    edited 11:47AM July 28, 2018
    *edited to me more constructive*

    1. Patch notes before changes are made to the content. In this second run of mush king royale, significant changes to the game mode were made with no previous warning or foresight.

    In live this can have significant impact if it continues;

    1a. Hard progression guilds can't make educated decisions on content. For instance, if a class changes, an ability is reworked, buffed, nerfed, a map is put in or removed and an event starts or ends.

    1b. It has affected the playability on the time warranted investment in a particular part of the game. Having set aside time to continue Mushking royale because of the significant nerf to items and removing the boxes completely from the game mode I wouldn't have made this decision to take away time from real life for a piece of content that effectively has been halved and rewards for this period removed (boxes per opened chest).

    i1109.photobucket.com/albums/h436/dugnome/fasle%20advertising.png
  • SequinSequin
    Maplestory 2 Rep: 450
    Posts: 10
    Member
    edited 11:28AM July 28, 2018
    The keybind buttons for fighting are awful. It changed? Why? I customized my own fight control on keybind buttons which I am used to play and very satisfied with it since day 1. Once I entered Musking Royale... I was totally lost less than half second and it stinks. Not worth for me to fight there without my personal keybinds. Plus there's no healing?
  • ArjuneArjune
    Maplestory 2 Rep: 2,090
    Posts: 159
    Member
    edited 1:31PM July 28, 2018
    aha.. nevermind it got fixed :3
  • MilkTeéMilkTeé
    Maplestory 2 Rep: 1,010
    Posts: 28
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    Xtony don't forget to sleep ;)
    Xtony
  • CubeNoobCubeNoob
    Maplestory 2 Rep: 2,060
    Posts: 142
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    edited 12:34AM July 29, 2018
    I played Mushking Royale after 4-5 games

    The game
    I think I really enjoyed it, I mean more people could hop in as well too. I think the healing items were actually ok, it's just a matter of time and rng to find some recovery items and it's similar to other battle royale genre's. Skills all had different cooldowns and each skill had it's best uses for whichever problem you ran into. The chests were quick to open and didn't require me to "hold" the button in order to open it which over time gets annoying when playing other battle royale's have this.

    I'd say it can get competitive and can be casual too.

    Queue
    The Queue may be of an issue however, some people started to use megaphone to ask people to join so maybe lower the requirements to initiate one and then have a small timer to gather more people?
  • MarcusTherionMarcusTherion
    Maplestory 2 Rep: 700
    Posts: 15
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    The only reason the queues were so long is because no one wants to play an already set leaderboard, no one wanted this at all. The top 10-11 only queue to keep their spots, and new people queue ones for their title, there's no incentive for them to play because being stomped by the people who've played non-stop isn't really something that can be considered fun, nor do they have the chance to be in the top 100. All the queues were fine on the previous weekend outside of midnight - 7am due to timezones, sometimes even 2-3 games going on at once.

    This was brought up before hand and they didn't listen, so here we are unfortunately.
  • RicenchickenRicenchicken
    Maplestory 2 Rep: 625
    Posts: 15
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    Mushking still says you'll get prestige/level exp but does not give it to you
  • Majestic_AscendantMajestic_Ascendant
    Maplestory 2 Rep: 730
    Posts: 15
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    Change the meta make ability's less stupidly overpowered. Seriously.... 1 arcane orb and your dead the dmg is too high and the range too big. Even if it doesn't kill you it will make you a one shot kill. Also make autoloot work with ability drops. I had trouble finding out why I couldn't pick up the items.
  • ShángSháng
    Maplestory 2 Rep: 2,555
    Posts: 90
    Forum Moderator
    Mushking Royale is a really fun and enjoyable gamemode.
    It serves well as something to fill downtime like Player Vs. Player.

    Point System:
    My only concern is regarding the points system of Mushking Royale.
    I have expressed previously that being the last man standing becomes really underwhelming when you realize 2nd place gets a very similar amount of points as you.

    It is understandable to have a group of people that play rather conservative in a Battleroyale Gamemode but (I've been stuck trying to explain this for 15 mins this is my 4th draft haha) having 1st get almost the same amount of points as 2nd made a lot of players run until others got knocked out to make it into the top 10.

    I have seen some people say to give points per kill but in my opinion actively seeking out kills already gives the players a benefit. The benefit being taking other players resources (skills, potions) at the risk of being knocked out.

    Many players were frustrated at the point system during the competition for a chance at a Founder's Pack and started witch hunts against certain players.Name calling then ensued making the environment very toxic and not enjoyable for others. I was luckily on good terms with people on both sides so I was able to calm them down, also avoiding the conflict entirely myself.

    This Mushking Test's Rankings is a good example for why many players were frustrated.
    (These stats were taken after the abrupt end on Saturday) (I have screenshots if required)

    Mushking Royale Rankings:
    (July 22nd, 2018 before the 1 extra day on July 28th, 2018)

    1st had 9 wins (3,255 points) and 169 games in total
    2nd had 31 wins (3,170 points)
    3rd had 33 wins (2,995 points)
    4th had 12 wins (2,780 points)
    5th had 35 wins (me) (2,753 points) and 124 games in total

    I'm sure I don't need to point out the obvious here.
    Having more games -in top 10- trumps having more wins.

    Fix:
    The problem can be easily fixed by increasing the point differences between 1st, 2nd, 3rd and so on.
    Making a win more impactful and more rewarding to the player.

    Teaming:
    Now I will slightly touch on the topic of Teaming.
    From my 138 games that I have played I have encountered attempts of teaming:

    Such as 2 players hiding in 1 bush only attacking when someone comes by. Most of the time killing themselves in the process. Not a big issue.

    Or

    Players that know each other avoiding killing each other until the very end. Which is a slight issue.

    Fix:
    In my opinion nothing needs to be done for this issue because it will iron out itself when more players are in Mushking Royale. The small player base of CBT2 atm means each game is roughly the same 30-40 people so yea...


    Conclusion:
    I really enjoy the our Battleroyale Gamemode and I want it to succeed in GlobalMS2. (I heard the gamemode is deserted in KoreanMS2)
    Funny enough I really dislike the Battleroyale genre at the moment but this was the only version I was able to play for 48hours straight so there's that. :D

    p.s. Sorry I kind of went off course in some areas making this very long, just wanted to give you guys the full picture.
    MilkTeé
  • kawingshekkawingshek
    Maplestory 2 Rep: 7,460
    Posts: 567
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    I believe the majority of the players were only doing this game mode for the event with founder's pack.
    The game mode itself is a nice idea but it's just trying a bit too much to stay in trend with popular genre of Royale.

    Since it's a minigame i'm fine with it, but if the seasonal rewards has a great impact on PvE side of the game it might make me question why we even have this kind of system where PvP is involved for you to be needed to progress in PvE.

    PvP belt/cape was required for Cdev for that piercing, and looking at the combat pet that we earned through mushking royale, it was fairly easy to farm (hopefully just an event) to just get the best bonus talent and feed that shroom to lv 50 for extra additional stats for your PvE progression which I really don't like.
    I know it's an option to do these other kind of modes but it might be annoying for the non-PvP players to be required to do certain things that they don't really like.

    Mushking royale was fun for the first 5 games, the skills took a while to learn and to organize your hotbar on your first few games, but it really died out in EU, except for those who really really wanted those founders packs and kept telling people to join Royale because they wanted to climb up higher in the leaderboard.
  • CattersCatters
    Maplestory 2 Rep: 1,145
    Posts: 13
    Member
    While I enjoy that the game mode is fairly balanced, since everyone is on an even playing field and the RNG isn't overly cruel with most of the item drops, I feel like something should be done about how easy it is for players to camp the grass areas! It's mentioned in every item description that none of the items will reveal hidden players which means that whenever you reach some grass you either risk immediete death or have to waste time (and potentially give away your position) to attack what could be empty. A new weapon or item that was able to let players see through tall grass would reduce camping and make it a less viable strategy and would give players more reason to seek out chests and kill monsters.
  • XtonyXtony
    Maplestory 2 Rep: 2,990
    Posts: 123
    Member
    I've just come across this topic, and man... The feels that are coming to me as I'm reading each posts...

    I think Mushking Royale was for me, and some others the funniest thing that happened during this CBT. And I'm truly thankful to Nexon for bringing such an opportunity to compete together with some rewards that are not insanely good, but far from being worthless (especially for the first 3 spots).
    And since we had to fight to get the founder's packs, we observed each other and managed to learn a lot of things about Mushking Royale (and beyond) that would be less obvious if we were all just trying to progress individually.
    I can't speak for the others, but I observed some weaker players from times to times, and it's clear that to someone that cannot learn or adapt quickly enough, they can feel like they're being left behind by the game and thrown in the arena right away without even knowing the basics. That's something that I'd like to talk about later but for now, let's just say that some players did really good and found less defaults than those who didn't even know that there is a key to manually pick up items in MapleStory 2.
    As I wrote in the Mushking Royale anouncement, the EU server remained pretty fair and friendly for the (almost) majority of the time. Having contacted each active player at least one between sessions, sometimes there was some salt, but it never went too far when it was even brought up during a match.
    Also, I've come across people teaming maybe thrice and got suspected of teaming once due to my behavior (I'm sorry by the way). I don't think that it was bothersome enough as these situation came very rarely and was only coming from the unexperienced players.


    Now let's start with some criticism about Mushking Royale with some points that everyone brought up or may agree with :

    The ranking system is all about that playtime: Play more to earn more. I don't think it is a bad thing in itself, but the problem is when it is literally the only factor that determinates who's first and who's 50th (no hate on @MilkTeé your gameplay was amazing). Kills were barely rewarding, so letting others do the chore of K.O-ing others seemed the most optimal one.

    The description of each skill is misleading : I remember seeing some skills claiming to stun others or some sort (unfortunately I didn't bring any screenshots with me). But as far as I remember, the fireball knocks down opponent with decent damage (which made it the strongest item). There wasn't an indication for the fact that some skills could hit through walls while some others didn't. Whirling knocking you back and things that I probably forgot. I think each skill should give you a clear indication of their effects, range, and utility instead of paying the price of loosing a game because of the lack of knowledge. Speaking of which...

    The mini game seriously lacks of indication : Some people may argue that the game doesn't need to constantly hold our hands, but if we compare the amount of player that know what they were doing while playing Mushking Royale compared to those that did not, people will think that on its current state everything's broken and unfair, which is far from the truth.
    I know that on others games, similar things happen with some unpopular VS modes where you're just being tossed in the melee with nothing but yourself. And chances are that it is most likely someone that is new to such experience and fail to understand it at first glance that makes it look like what it is. And as mentioned right above, queue time might not be shorter on official release.
    So please Nexon, tell to people that you need to press Z (on qwerty keyboards) or W (or azerty keyboards) to pick-up items. Tell them that you can get an insane boost with the slime, display a big message on screen when you pick-up a chest buff so that it makes the player have a good comprehension of what is happening on the screen.

    The mecha litteraly breaks you a leg temporary : By that I mean no ability to deal a lethal combo in a short amount of time, no possibility to heal your mecha which turns out to make you a more vulnerable target than the average player in some situation. The only benefits to using the mecha is to have an insane mobility and range. Though the range's effectiveness is reduced due to the fact that your field of view isn't increasing. The only time I used the mecha was to secure my spot to earn enough ranking points or to chase down unexperienced players. Top players were easily taking me down depending on their confidence.


    I don't think I have much to say for now. Having (more or less) 24 hours of playtime in Mushking Royale, I haven't find anything else that was really bothering me. Maybe the stun bomb skill wasn't rewarding enough but that's about it. I hope to see more ranking events like these in the future as long as they are willing to change the ranking system even though I will most likely not participate to them but I still think that such occasions gives a completely different experience from the usual game especially since we were within a limited playerbase (though I wish sometimes queue time for Mushking wasn't that long)!




    Now I would like to dedicate this part of the post to a more personal sight and that may be completely off-topic, so feel free to ignore it.
    There is one thing that I currently get out of my head and that is the fact that we had to play for an extra 24 hours. I could feel a bigger level frustration after each game than the first 48 hours and that made me extremely worried about some of my fellow mushknights. It didn't feel like people were playing because they wanted to compete but more because we didn't want any "outsider" to take our spots. After the first weekend, I ended up 11th, with around 10 points less than the 10th and mostly because I took a lot of breaks during the day because of some responsibilities I had to take care of so I was completely fine with being below those that dedicated more time into MapleStory 2.

    I had already my plans on being on vacation at the same period as the extra 24 hours so I allowed myself to try to not miss out a single match and I have mixed feelings about the results...
    The fear of loosing our spots was real and as I managed to get into the top 10, the previous holder of that spot seemed very anxious and was panicking a lot and I don't think it was a good experience for them. I don't think that they ever deserved to be in such situation. And although we still had some fun with each other, I feel like taking away that spot from them is completely selfish since I could've simply chosen to not play, or if I really wanted to play just use an another character.
    After the event ended, I could barely stay awake because ever since my vacation started, I've been sick and my situation hasn't been much better since then (though I should completely recover pretty soon). And when I went to take a big nap, I haven't realised what happened yet.
    Helping that player reaching 250 exploration stars right after Mushking was the last time I have seen that player. After the few days that passed I am now very sorry to have ruined that player's investment that was worth more than just a founder's pack. I even went ahead and made a gift in case that player would be passing by but turns out they were already there and gone while I was asleep. I didn't managed to catch that player and I hope they don't hate me for what I did. They might even think that I was BMing them because the points gap was 17 at the end of the last session.
    I hope this person is reading this, and that they know that at this very moment, I'm thinking about them and that I am sorry for everything that happened during those 24 hours.

    I am not asking for forgiveness but I truly hope that wherever you are at the moment, you're okay and I'm letting you know that I will support you at least as much as you previously did for me.


    Happy birthday

    Xtony
    MilkTeé
  • DLyonDLyon
    Maplestory 2 Rep: 340
    Posts: 7
    Member
    I'm not a fan of PVP, but I tried. Hated every bit of it. It's all a big mess and the obvious best strategy is to hide 'till the end. Boring. Plus, took forever to find matches. Not looking forward to this one. You could remove it from the game and focus on bettering the other things.

    If someone wants to play Fortnight, they can do just so.
  • SuggSugg
    Maplestory 2 Rep: 440
    Posts: 15
    Member
    The mech suits at the end are unnecessary, high ping makes it hard, some of the abilities are overpowered like the giant spinning star and the giant earth like ball, had some charm and fun times in the mode.
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