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[Feedback] Hard Adventure Dungeons

NXACuddlesNXACuddles
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edited 8:53PM July 14, 2018 in Closed Beta 2 Feedback
Please leave your feedback regarding the new Hard Adventure Dungeons.
Headstar007Sháng

Comments

  • VanicleVanicle
    Maplestory 2 Rep: 1,945
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    I guess this applies to any dungeon/raid (not just Hard Adventure) - I love the information at the end that has my damage/healing over the dungeon. However, the page goes away really quickly and I feel like could definitely have more information. I’d like to see the rest of my party members information too (not only if they are my friends) so that I can compare how I did.

    Also, it would be neat if there were leaderboards for most DPS/fastest runs of different dungeons/raids. This might give people more incentive to do them again.
    Headstar007ShiktoMorninggAgent_DragonfuryHiyateMoe_Loli_eGirlKSibRyia_ArcherDrinkTeaArurauneand 1 other.
  • Headstar007Headstar007
    Maplestory 2 Rep: 1,470
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    This also applies to hard dungeons so I'll just repost it: Currently, dungeons are too hard and give little to no rewards, There should be greater rewards and you should earn experience for killing mobs in the dungeon. To help balance I believe dungeon difficulty should be different depending on how many members are in the party so people who solo dungeons don't have a bad time and people who join big parties don't finish it quickly, on top of that rewards should increase/decrease depending on the number of players in the party to encourage people to party and to balance everything out. I also believe that increasing the daily and weekly limits on dungeons would be a good idea.
    Akuma524
  • MarksmanBryanMarksmanBryan
    Maplestory 2 Rep: 2,475
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    Hello. I am one of the four people who has cleared Temple of Immortals. My guild has many clears of The Fire Dragon as well. We are all experienced players (years on the Korean server), and we have come to the same conclusion:

    These dungeons are too hard. This issue stems from an underlying issue of mobs in general doing way too much damage, but I will keep my discussion to the hard adventure dungeons only. My focus will be mainly on Temple of Immortals.

    The change to 4-player is not an issue if the damage was the same as the first beta. We could just tank the attacks. However, Balrog is currently way too powerful to be a 4-player instance.

    Pyrros is not really an issue - its difficulty is significantly higher than the previous closed beta, and the Korean/Chinese version, but it is still possible to clear with focus and proper gameplay. No specific classes are required in order to have no deaths. You will, however, die in 1 or 2 hits of every single attack, including his charge skill during the first phase.

    Balrog is where we begin to see major problems. There are three distinct phases in this fight: 100-80% is just DPS and dodge. 80%-30% spawns ads and does a stun/HP drain attack. This phase is doable but requires auto-pot from a pet and constant potion spamming, including 25%/50% elixirs.
    At 30%, everything changes. Tristan (NPC) enters the map and provides occasional stuns. Balrog's attack pattern changes and he will constantly use a roar/stun attack ~30 seconds apart from each other. This attack is completely unavoidable, unless Tristan stuns Balrog while he is charging the roar. This only happens on the first roar and randomly for the rest of the run. This attack does a solid 150-200%+ of your health - there is no way to survive it, even with auto-pot on a pet using 50% elixirs. Naturally, we have to turn to a specific class, the knight, in order to block this attack. However, since this is a 4-player dungeon, one slot HAS to be reserved for a knight. Even with this slot reserved, their block skill is not off CD for every roar attack. How to combat this? More knights alternating shields. This is what we used to do when it was released in Korea, but it was a 10-player instance and having two knights was not a big deal. But, in this current closed beta, HALF of the party is required to be knights in order to clear this dungeon without dying. That is unacceptable.

    The weapon dropped from this dungeon also has a lower gear score than the named weapons (MK52 bow/cannon/etc) from Pyrros, and given how tight GS requirements are for Chaos Devorak, there is little to no reason to waste time/meret in Temple of Immortals. The Balrog weapon chest might be worth it, as that gives a higher tier named weapon (Arceon, Barkhant, etc), but I am going to guess it is a fairly low drop rate. Chaos Devorak will still require high levels of enchantment, which requires multiple of the same weapon, and two weeks is not nearly enough time to get enough benefit from Balrog clears.
    biskoSyncnesslarkissRadiantRayTytaineZangamsongyPsYDaniLutfFriendshipand 22 others.
  • SouleniteSoulenite
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    This is more for dungeons in general. The 30 max dungeons regardless of what it is (though a friend complained about limitations in general) makes it a little less enjoyable to play if you're a raider. Though it would be nice to not have any of these limitations at all in the official release, at least bump it up by a lot. Or "30 of that ONE dungeon per week" though I know a few friends wouldn't bother with the game anymore if it was like that as well.
  • ZyconZycon
    Maplestory 2 Rep: 905
    Posts: 39
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    So why is it that named weapons from Balrog are untradeable? The shiny weapons and armor are fine and I can (although hate) somewhat understand that but there's nothing tradeable from Balrog unless it's the helm, cape, or earrings. I got a Balrog treasure chest with a priest weapon while there was a priest in our party and couldn't even give it to him. Such a joke.
    msongyRedvannLucisQaradoxical
  • biskobisko
    Maplestory 2 Rep: 1,325
    Posts: 26
    Member
    Hello. I am one of the four people who has cleared Temple of Immortals. My guild has many clears of The Fire Dragon as well. We are all experienced players (years on the Korean server), and we have come to the same conclusion:

    These dungeons are too hard. This issue stems from an underlying issue of mobs in general doing way too much damage, but I will keep my discussion to the hard adventure dungeons only. My focus will be mainly on Temple of Immortals.

    The change to 4-player is not an issue if the damage was the same as the first beta. We could just tank the attacks. However, Balrog is currently way too powerful to be a 4-player instance.

    Pyrros is not really an issue - its difficulty is significantly higher than the previous closed beta, and the Korean/Chinese version, but it is still possible to clear with focus and proper gameplay. No specific classes are required in order to have no deaths. You will, however, die in 1 or 2 hits of every single attack, including his charge skill during the first phase.

    Balrog is where we begin to see major problems. There are three distinct phases in this fight: 100-80% is just DPS and dodge. 80%-30% spawns ads and does a stun/HP drain attack. This phase is doable but requires auto-pot from a pet and constant potion spamming, including 25%/50% elixirs.
    At 30%, everything changes. Tristan (NPC) enters the map and provides occasional stuns. Balrog's attack pattern changes and he will constantly use a roar/stun attack ~30 seconds apart from each other. This attack is completely unavoidable, unless Tristan stuns Balrog while he is charging the roar. This only happens on the first roar and randomly for the rest of the run. This attack does a solid 150-200%+ of your health - there is no way to survive it, even with auto-pot on a pet using 50% elixirs. Naturally, we have to turn to a specific class, the knight, in order to block this attack. However, since this is a 4-player dungeon, one slot HAS to be reserved for a knight. Even with this slot reserved, their block skill is not off CD for every roar attack. How to combat this? More knights alternating shields. This is what we used to do when it was released in Korea, but it was a 10-player instance and having two knights was not a big deal. But, in this current closed beta, HALF of the party is required to be knights in order to clear this dungeon without dying. That is unacceptable.

    The weapon dropped from this dungeon also has a lower gear score than the named weapons (MK52 bow/cannon/etc) from Pyrros, and given how tight GS requirements are for Chaos Devorak, there is little to no reason to waste time/meret in Temple of Immortals. The Balrog weapon chest might be worth it, as that gives a higher tier named weapon (Arceon, Barkhant, etc), but I am going to guess it is a fairly low drop rate. Chaos Devorak will still require high levels of enchantment, which requires multiple of the same weapon, and two weeks is not nearly enough time to get enough benefit from Balrog clears.

    Coming from the Oceanic Server, I fully reflect this statement. Having boss abilities / targeting be random in hard dungeons and I assume raids are a pain. If dying is a required mechanic for completing a boss, it is poor game design not poor players.
    SukafuVerloLeobeta
  • SyncnessSyncness
    Maplestory 2 Rep: 1,950
    Posts: 111
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    edited 10:09PM July 21, 2018
    snip

    Pretty much mimic this sentiment.

    I played CMS2 for about 5 months. And was the first guild on Oceania to clear Balrog.

    Adding to this, the current gear progression from fresh 50 to get into raids, then to Balrog and chaos is very poorly implemented.
    I encourage the devs themselves to attempt the progression themselves.

    Players are required to equip gear from different classes in order to make the gear score requirement of the first raid as many weapons don't even drop for classes outside of raids.
    biskomsongyRedvannLucisSubglacious
  • msongymsongy
    Maplestory 2 Rep: 955
    Posts: 18
    Member
    edited 1:26AM July 22, 2018
    ``
    Syncness wrote: »
    ```
    Wow I was dreading having to summarize precisely how I felt about progression currently, so nice to see someone's already done the hard work.

    The Fire Dragon raid is adequately balanced imo - even for new players if only takes one or two tries to get a decent understanding of the patterns.

    I hope this doesn't fall on deaf ears - as it stands, melee classes don't have a chance in hell in finishing the Barlog raid. And the difficulty curve is way too steep - compared to the adventure dungeons preceding the rog and pyro.

    I know dungeon damage stats were removed in other servers because of toxic and 'elite' player tendencies - but I really wish I could see how much I contributed to raids more concretely. It would be awesome if it could be done in a method where it didn't encourage toxicity.
    GuardianRS
  • PsYDaniPsYDani
    Maplestory 2 Rep: 780
    Posts: 26
    Member
    edited 4:22AM July 22, 2018
    Hello. I am one of the four people who has cleared Temple of Immortals. My guild has many clears of The Fire Dragon as well. We are all experienced players (years on the Korean server), and we have come to the same conclusion:

    These dungeons are too hard. This issue stems from an underlying issue of mobs in general doing way too much damage, but I will keep my discussion to the hard adventure dungeons only. My focus will be mainly on Temple of Immortals.

    The change to 4-player is not an issue if the damage was the same as the first beta. We could just tank the attacks. However, Balrog is currently way too powerful to be a 4-player instance.

    Pyrros is not really an issue - its difficulty is significantly higher than the previous closed beta, and the Korean/Chinese version, but it is still possible to clear with focus and proper gameplay. No specific classes are required in order to have no deaths. You will, however, die in 1 or 2 hits of every single attack, including his charge skill during the first phase.

    Balrog is where we begin to see major problems. There are three distinct phases in this fight: 100-80% is just DPS and dodge. 80%-30% spawns ads and does a stun/HP drain attack. This phase is doable but requires auto-pot from a pet and constant potion spamming, including 25%/50% elixirs.
    At 30%, everything changes. Tristan (NPC) enters the map and provides occasional stuns. Balrog's attack pattern changes and he will constantly use a roar/stun attack ~30 seconds apart from each other. This attack is completely unavoidable, unless Tristan stuns Balrog while he is charging the roar. This only happens on the first roar and randomly for the rest of the run. This attack does a solid 150-200%+ of your health - there is no way to survive it, even with auto-pot on a pet using 50% elixirs. Naturally, we have to turn to a specific class, the knight, in order to block this attack. However, since this is a 4-player dungeon, one slot HAS to be reserved for a knight. Even with this slot reserved, their block skill is not off CD for every roar attack. How to combat this? More knights alternating shields. This is what we used to do when it was released in Korea, but it was a 10-player instance and having two knights was not a big deal. But, in this current closed beta, HALF of the party is required to be knights in order to clear this dungeon without dying. That is unacceptable.

    The weapon dropped from this dungeon also has a lower gear score than the named weapons (MK52 bow/cannon/etc) from Pyrros, and given how tight GS requirements are for Chaos Devorak, there is little to no reason to waste time/meret in Temple of Immortals. The Balrog weapon chest might be worth it, as that gives a higher tier named weapon (Arceon, Barkhant, etc), but I am going to guess it is a fairly low drop rate. Chaos Devorak will still require high levels of enchantment, which requires multiple of the same weapon, and two weeks is not nearly enough time to get enough benefit from Balrog clears.

    This, even as a Knight, who is supposed to be a tank, i can get 2 shotted, this is ridiclous considering most of his attacks are instant.
    Secondly, his swing attack where he swings twice and smashes once, registers before he actually swings/smashes the range is absurd on that attack, it can hit you even if the axe model is way out of range.
    The boss attacks too fast for his damage, a Knight a supposed tank being 2 shotted without a way to dodge is hurrondeous, ive tried to dodge him but it just didnt work, the hit registered even before he swinged the axe, and when you actually need to tank damage when you need to keep him off the ranged characters during the Adds phase youre going to die, no matter what you do, you cannot tank that, you are getting homed by projectiles which do 500-350 damage each, combined with the Instant roar of the Balrog which slows you down, you just cant outrun him or the projectiles.
    If his damage is high, why does he attack instantly? Pyros aka the Fire dragon you can dodge easily and if you dont you get punished its simple, but thats the thing you know when to dodge, but with Balrog you cant, you dont know he attacks instantly, the hits even register when you dodge it.
    EDIT: Let me rephrase the Pyros dodging, its not easy, especially for a new comer for that raid, but with enough knowledge you can easily dodge him, thats the beauty of a combat system, easy to learn hard to master.
  • DamoDamo
    Maplestory 2 Rep: 215
    Posts: 3
    Member
    I didn't know where to add this but it refers to hard adventures/normal adventure, there should be an option to turn off loot options for the first 10 runs of the day. There were many situations during the day where guildies or public parties were recruiting for The Fire dragon and level 50 dungeons but could not join them due to not wanting to waste my loot.

    Please implement an option for "Dungeon Loot" and a box to tick, easy as that. This would allow more players that like to help others or do the content for fun and not waste "loot".
    Nekibri
  • SapatonaSapatona
    Maplestory 2 Rep: 750
    Posts: 8
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    One of the things I totally dislike is the fact that, if you lose your connection to the game (even for like 5 seconds), you can't go back into the dungeon, and that is wrong
    MuphinnzAkuma524Ryia_ArcherSubglaciousbolder_taste
  • ShawnyyShawnyy
    Maplestory 2 Rep: 3,110
    Posts: 180
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    My feelings of hard adventure dungeons is that the bosses hit way too hard and drop basically nothing. and by nothing I mean it drops an endless supply of untradeable items that you can either only decompose or in the case of the epic shield throw it in the trash. I feel as though RNG screws you over more times than not in this game in the fact that you only get 10 runs a day 30 a week to gear up to a healthy place to be able to do stuff like pvp and with the current drop rating its kinda sucky. the bosses are so hard that you have to have played either in china or korea to stand a fighting chance if ur ungeared and then those people just end up flying past everyone else when it comes to all the other content. I cant even think of playing the game let alone pvp right now because the top people have legendary armor so u basically just tickly them while then drop nukes on ur head with normal attack. this all stems from the drop rate and dungeon limits of the dungeons and drop rate more specifically for the hard adventures. the beta is only out for 2 weeks which makes no sense why they want to make it extrermely hard to even get to run the chaos raid or let alone see how end game gear feels on your char.

    I hope to god that on official release the limit for overall dungeons is way higher maybe 70 because there is 7 days in a week and u get 10 runs a day which makes logical sense or if it remains 30 significantly increase the drop rates so that people can actually get gear for their specific character. now I know this pertain more to all dungeons not specifically hard dungeons but yes the limits are a big issue. some will say "oh no some people will spam to max end game gear in 1 day." well if they remove limit and significantly reduce drop rates to maybe 2 items per run per person? that will solve that issue. and on the flip side if u have super low limit alls ur doing is punishing people that like playing the game and forcing them to get on for 2 hours do daily raids and log off. if that's what they want the game to be like they they might as well not even launch the game at all. and some people will now say "you can make a new character." ok well what if u wanted to play 1 character? why shud I be forced to play 10characters just to be able to do things in the game? what kind of optionality is that? I assure you I will not even play the game nor will a lot of other people. all that does is pushes the god tier Korean and Chinese server players with extreme game experience further ahead from the lower much newer players and block them from participating in content such as pvp because their gear score sucks because they couldn't get any drops within their 10 runs because the RNG gods were not on their side.

    what ive learn so far playing the game is that i dont even have to play the game cuz nexon only wants me to play for 2 hour / 3 days a week and that if i want to be good or even stand a chance at the high level raids i need to either learn korean and play KMS2 or move to china and play CMS2. its kinda sad cuz the game has alot of potential but with this stupid limit thats so restricting you cant even get to fun content let alone gear let alone only play that content sparingly per day.

    RedvannFiearenLucis
  • ReinDarlingReinDarling
    Maplestory 2 Rep: 800
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    edited 8:18PM July 22, 2018
    NERF PLZ MY GOD I HAVE 3166 OF GEAR SCORE AND I USED 1K OF MERETS
    hhNTvVt.png
  • AG_GGAG_GG
    Maplestory 2 Rep: 490
    Posts: 6
    Member
    Not being able to trade drops with fellow party members & Dungeon loot caps. Both quite an issue for few others I know and myself.
  • HyphoxHyphox
    Maplestory 2 Rep: 1,260
    Posts: 34
    Member
    I overal love the game, but I hate that there's a weekly dungeon cap.
    The daily I can fully understand and respect, but the weekly now limits me.
    I've just capped my weekly cap and now the only thing I can do ingame is lifeskills etc.

    I could make another account but I don't really feel like that right now. Also I'm trying to get to the new chaos dungeon. Which I can't get to when I'm stuck with 3155GS because I can't get new items from the hard dungeons because of the cap.
    Please remove this cap...
    AG_GGFiearenPsYDaniLucisGuardianRSPaPaNurgle
  • SyncnessSyncness
    Maplestory 2 Rep: 1,950
    Posts: 111
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    edited 4:58AM July 23, 2018
    The reason the cap was implemented before is because it became compulsory to complete 36 dungeons daily to get the white crystals and upgrade your weapon past +9.

    If you didn't, your DPS wasn't competitive and you wouldn't be invited to public groups.

    Presently in CMS2, the 30 boxes also reward white crystals.
  • PsYDaniPsYDani
    Maplestory 2 Rep: 780
    Posts: 26
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    Update on Balrog situation :
    Ive cleared it twice in a row, once with a priest in the party and once without a priest.
    My party got wiped out completely including with meret respawns when he hit 10% hp, the meret respawn seems to be a pay 2 win aspect of MS2, this should be removed from dungeons and Hard dungeons, as i myself died 7 times which ment i needed to use merets 3 times.
    Balrog is still way too powerful, as it usually takes a sacrafice when he roars and stuns you for 10 seconds at 300 hp, that should not happen as you cannot avoid death, sure a Knight can save you but a knight's invulnerabillity cooldown is way too large for the amount of spam of that attack.
    Overall i think his damage should be nerfed, and his roar attack should not take a players life since were still stunned when he begins to attack again.
    Either lower the damage, or lower the AOE of that so it will still punish.
    HatManAkuma524
  • ChillBearChillBear
    Maplestory 2 Rep: 5,690
    Posts: 292
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    edited 6:48AM July 23, 2018
    Weekly and daily cap needs to be removed, or the equipment system overhauled. The game is heavily dependent on RNG to acquire gear. For example, if you were a trail blazer player and was doing each dungeon in order to gear up your character, you are actually behind someone who waited to buy their weapon off the market.

    Here's a worked out example:

    Person 1 needs 1710 GS to do the fire dragon dungeon. He farms level 50 dungeons in hopes of getting his weapon. During that time he uses up his daily/weekly dungeons. If he is lucky, he will get essential gear in a few runs. If he is unlucky he will get essential gear after many runs. During these attempts he has used his daily/weekly dungeons so by the time he can do the hard dungeons he will be severely limited to how many he can do since he did level 50 dungeons.

    Person 2 decides to do no level 50 dungeons and wait for their weapon to be on sale on the market. During this time they do not use daily/weekly cap. When they purchase their weapon off the market and have enough gear score for the hard dungeons, they have a clean slate on the dailies/weeklies. They have the ability to run 30 episodes of those hard dungeons while Person 1 who put in the effort to farm lower dungeons is only limited to 10-20 hard dungeons.

    The daily/weekly caps system is broken, or the gearing system is broken. It's not right that a person who waits and does no dungeons has more potential to gear their character in the long run.
    PsYDaniHyphoxAG_GGPilikenSouleniteFiearenLucisMokomokoAkuma524Metosisand 2 others.
  • KatsKats
    Maplestory 2 Rep: 4,415
    Posts: 213
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    edited 9:34AM July 23, 2018
    Fire Dragon: Good introduction to Hard Adventures, takes a bit more than a normal dungeon, him running around is super annoying and I hope you won't make more bosses with this, it's not fun to run around after the boss.

    Balrog: I haven't cleared it yet but one thing I can say is, his attacks have disgusting hitboxes, getting hit when he's swinging his weapon even if you're behind him is BS. The shout hits you no matter what, only way to avoid it is predicting it.

    PsYDaniGuardianRS
  • oKCoKC
    Maplestory 2 Rep: 990
    Posts: 12
    Member
    I really like the current version of hard dungeons. It is not TOO hard or TOO easy. It has only been 1 week and if it is too hard for people they have to understand that you are not suppose to beat end game bosses in 1 week. So it is currently very good.
    HatMan
This discussion has been closed.