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[Feedback] UGC Design System

NXACuddlesNXACuddles
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edited 9:03PM July 14, 2018 in Closed Beta 2 Feedback
Please leave your feedback regarding the UGC Design System.

Comments

  • DanDKDanDK
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    The interface seems user-friendly and accessible to people who are new to the system and is fairly intuitive to use. It also seems that so far content is appropriately moderated, and you've included options to Report problematic designs. I have nothing more to add at the moment, but will edit the post if I encounter any other things worth mentioning.
    Headstar007Poofcat
  • Headstar007Headstar007
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    I currently really enjoy the interface it is visually stunning while being easy to use, currently, I have no issues with the interface.
  • VixieVixie
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    Could you add transparency support to ugc? Most impressive designs are ones that take a template and make it look like something completely different, but for that they have to paint the design with skin color. And not everyone has the same skin color...
    Headstar007CreseiaAlexmoReimyLuxxautobannedBurnedLineSylphaelidontreallyknowmanCGBJAIand 15 others.
  • Headstar007Headstar007
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    Vixie wrote: »
    Could you add transparency support to ugc? Most impressive designs are ones that take a template and make it look like something completely different, but for that they have to paint the design with skin color. And not everyone has the same skin color...

    I agree this would be very useful
    VixieautobannedidontreallyknowmanWifuPilloNavokiSeasider
  • AxianStudiosAxianStudios
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    The personal performance timer should have a pause function on top of the others.
  • LilSleepyFoxLilSleepyFox
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    I'd like to see more models for things like the staff and cannon... they're just boxes atm.
    VixieBurnedLineWanderyenBudubuKinlaFreebooterFoxSeasider
  • FirelinksFirelinks
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    I would really like a way to make other player name either small or see-through.
    I have to play with names deactivated to enjoy the game as too many people in the same area is a cluster to look at.
    Navoki
  • AlexmoAlexmo
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    Vixie wrote: »
    Could you add transparency support to ugc? Most impressive designs are ones that take a template and make it look like something completely different, but for that they have to paint the design with skin color. And not everyone has the same skin color...

    I agree this would be very useful

    It would be honestly amazing I saw a Megameme costume in the UGC shop. It would have gone great with my Wizard but the skin color is wrong. Transparency would remove this issue completely for any costume.
    VixieautobannedNavoki
  • chaoscauserchaoscauser
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    Needs more duck stuff.
  • haaruhaaru
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    User interface is really good, overall. I can only complain about the text, I'm using 1600x900 resolution (Windowed) at 100% HUD scaling and the text is a bit difficult to read.
  • TinyFoxTinyFox
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    The idea is awesome, but some things are poorly implemented. The cannon will always look like a painted 4x4 beam of wood and the stars are only 4 pointed non curved. I would love to make like a super soaker for my pool themed heavy gunner, but It has no details. I had to get a skin from the premium section instead of from someone else, because as much as you put into it, it still looks like a long block.
    autobanned
  • oof123oof123
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    amazing so far, however Need more versions of models for weapons, clothes, generally a choice and let the creator choose what MODEL they want and design it from there. not just a blank T-shirt, maybe a sweatshirt blank model get what im saying? otherwise pretty good
    VixieCGBJAIBudubuWifuPilloSeasider
  • OvernOvern
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    If this is for the User created models using templates, It's super confusing for me and I'm personally not fond of the way it works.

    To start off, the available models are pretty bad. Most of it is just boxy and pretty gross to look at, meanwhile you look at the Premium shop and EVEN the default weapons and they have a variety of impressive shapes. I personally know it'd be asking way too much, but if you could have a 3D program/site or whatever set up that lets people play with the shapes of the mesh that makes up the custom items, at least with the weapons, to get more unique forms. And then make it so that when players are working on the template it shows them how it looks on the model, that would allow players more easier access to the custom creation option. Because as it stands, I just look at the templates for each item with deep confusion. I'm also kinda sad that I didn't spot any of those oversized adorable sweaters with the big, loose collars sorta like a turtle neck, but not pressed up against the neck. I hope the lack of sweaters isn't just to prevent people from making virgin killers for each skin tone.

    Secondly, as mentioned above, the current way you create a skin for items is.. not the best. I'm an artist and I've worked on very basic skins before but this isn't something I can readily approach and STILL make something I'd be happy with. I don't really want to make joke items and run around with memes, but instead something that at least semi-matched the game's aesthetics. As it stands however, I'm just better off using the default skins you get when you initially try to edit them. I was actually shocked to see the lack of designs in the shops and I can kinda figure out why due to looking at it myself. Well, outside the actual costs of putting them publicly into the shops.

    What's more is that the templates use transparency, which is immediately bad if you try to save them to work on in a different program. Since it means you can't make torn up or weathered clothes unless it's like.. "scratches in leather that don't go all the way through", like the vintage items in Mabinogi. I'm kinda better off just designing items by drawing them and asking someone else to make them, likely without any profit if it got sold dependant on which shop it made it in and who made it.
  • MiguelxMiguelx
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    edited 11:58AM July 22, 2018
    The interface for making gear is really simple and I really enjoy it personally and have no problems using it.

    One thing I would like to know is the line we can't cross in terms of sexually subjective.

    There's a lot of suggestive hentai ucg which I would expect to be removed seeing as how this is game available to children, but since there is a lot of it up still in the design shop, it leaves me wondering if it is simply allowed or if you guys are being lenient because it's a beta and everything will be wiped out regardless?

    On top of that, there's some images in the discord which people are uploading, and I wonder if they're usable come full launch simply because as I said, some are sexually subjective but not really anything excessive.

    Some examples of the images I talk about are as showed,
    av.jpg?width=169&height=300
    unknown.png?width=240&height=300
    2018-07-22_101.png

    One thing that worries me is that a lot of images that are in my opinion bannable are being shared and replicated within the discord outfit template channels. Meaning it's not being moderated at all. Is this something that will be fixed? I say this because I hope there will not be any repercussions coming from the channel making it so that ugc is removed from the game due to immaturity.

    FreebooterFox
  • HawfHawf
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    Hi there, I do this kind of stuff professionally for games like Dota 2 and Team Fortress 2 (Nexon actually sponsored an old item set of mine back when they distributed Dota in Korea) and I think you guys have a really nice system going on here. Your interface is simple and easy to work with but I have a few suggestions for improved item quality and streamlining the item making process.

    first of all I think that these little texture guides are a great way of helping people unfamiliar with 3D game assets understand how texturing works.
    feImsbX.png
    However given how small the resolution is for these items there is a HUGE waste of usable texture space
    ZQZsN9L.png
    I feel like this is done intentionally to reduce UV island crowding and make the texture templates easier to understand but I feel like the reduction in texture res is a bit of let down.

    My other main complaint is the warning I get when a texture with the same name already exists
    6BQmxzP.png
    I keep my work files separate from the import folder and I'm constantly re-importing and re-saving my work as I go along, and having to delete my old import every time is incredibly tedious. I think having the importer always overwrite the last file even if it shares the same name would really streamline the creation process.

    One suggestion that I really think would benefit experienced asset creators would be to support Targa files as most game assets use them because of their alpha channel support.
    So this is going to sound a bit more technical but it's a super simple solution to something that I think a lot of people could take advantage of.
    Use the alpha channel as a mask to colour shift a part of a texture to the player characters current skin tone. This is the exact same way TF2 paints their items.

    We've already seen from the examples Miguelx posted above that players are going to paint items with skin detail, whether they are muscle details, tattoos, cleavage, etc.
    So colour matching skin isn't too hard because the game supplies us with a very useful palette of skin tones
    ezCy0Jn.png
    However the downside to this is if you want your item to cover a wider range of skin tones you need to make a separate submission for every other skin tone and anyone could tell that is NOT efficient at all.
    what if the uploader runs out of Merets to upload different versions of their item
    what if a player buys an item with the WRONG skin tone by mistake?
    This is going to result in frustrated creators, frustrated players and mispurchased items. All of which will result in customer support chats and helpdesk tickets asking for refunds and reimbursements.

    ZsdtbY1.png
    The viewer only gives us three tones to preview as well. having a dropdown of all the available skin tones would be helpful for skin matching.

    here's a solution to this mismatched skintone problem using Team Fortress 2's simple color-shifting method
    yIICzqo.png
    paint all parts of the texture that represent the characters skin white (any details like muscles, collar bones, belly buttons, etc would need to be painted with grey/black in monochrome for the colour shift to work)
    next use the aplha channel to create a mask of the same area
    7EsPBub.png
    Then simply colour shift that alpha mask to the players current skin tone using the playermodel shader.

    this would easily solve this problem.

    Other useful things nexon could supply are the texture UV maps and .obj files of the item geometry.
    A greate example is Valve Software's workshop resource tools for Dota 2
    you can see how they provide community members with these resources here
    http://www.dota2.com/workshop/requirements/

    Finally, I know it's a bit of a pipe dream at this point, but having support for custom geometry would be a huge draw for professional artists to play with as a hobby. It would also make a lot of players really happy. Second Life, IMVU and VR Chat all support large communities centered around custom assets with support for custom models.
    This would create a new slew of problems like polygon counts and LOD models, but it's still something i wanted to mention because I know I would love to try it out.

    In conclusion. I think valuing tools that create the highest quality items possible is what's going to make the design shop sustainable both for Nexon and players. Sloppy meme based items will always make a quick buck but without high quality tools the design shop will eventually be overrun with low effort, low quality items that dedicated players will completely ignore.

    If you guys have any questions, or would like any more professional consultation around the workshop system, please don't hesitate to reach out to me on twitter @hawtkoffee
    autobannedCindersAlexmoVixieCGBJAIWanderyenBudubuKinlaPoofcatMapleSapoand 2 others.
  • autobannedautobanned
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    Hawf wrote: »
    Use the alpha channel as a mask to colour shift a part of a texture to the player characters current skin tone. This is the exact same way TF2 paints their items.

    So basically everything that would otherwise be transparent is instead skin colored? I think that would be a great compromise! I'm sure that Nexon is avoiding adding transparency to UGC so that they can continue to sell the transparency badge in the premium shop.

    If transparency auto shifted to match skin tone, that would allow more creativity while also preventing people from just making like, transparent hats to avoid paying for the transparency badge.

    VixieKinlaPoofcat
  • HawfHawf
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    edited 7:59AM July 23, 2018
    precisely, this method allows Nexon to continue selling their transparent outfits but allows content creators to make use of the alpha channel in a simple and effective way, I think it's also worth noting that some of Nexon's included examples for custom textures use painted in skin.

    the only real downside to lack of transparency support is not being able to make weathered and tattered clothing as effectively.
    VixiePoofcat
  • FiloraFilora
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    I think there needs to be better templates for weapons specifically. It just looks like the image is awkwardly fit to the template.
    VixieCurrybun
  • JoTheWeirdoJoTheWeirdo
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    Long post incoming from someone who loves UGC to death but has some issues to talk about.

    I really like the UGC system and it is the one thing that really peaked my interest when I first saw it, but there are some major issues I have with it that already bothered me since the first CBT and It's starting to eat away at me.

    I mentioned this in the first CBT UGC Feedback Thread but I noticed nothing changed so I'll go into more detail this time.
    For starters, designs lose a LOT of quality when finalizing, I do not know why but I have my theories, more on that in a bit.

    When I mention losing quality I mean jagged edges (which results in fine details getting destroyed) and color changing (especially noticeable with black/grey turning into green/purple tones), these are just from my experience though. However this does NOT show in the preview window when you're working in the Workshop editor and only shows when your design has been purchased.

    Now, I work with PNG files instead of JPEG files but after facing the problem of my designs getting ruined several times when finalizing I tried saving my files as a JPEG instead and then I noticed the design actually looking as bad as it would look like when I would finalize it via a PNG file. (See Picture below)

    Keep in mind that the JPEG is the final product no matter what and that the PNG is how it normally should look like and looks like in the editor.
    This is a comparison of my latest design which is still in progress.

    In the JPEG the grey color has become a nasty dark green and the shading has become dark purple, the tie and (less noticeable) other stuff has become jagged.
    05GXeHP.png

    This is a picture I posted in the first CBT UGC feedback thread, but it shows the same problem qualitywise.
    4IjKIbo.png

    Here's a video I recorded to show the comparison, I hope it's visible enough.


    Now my theory is that designs get turned into high compressed JPEGs instead of keeping their HD PNG properties if that makes sense, either way they get compressed a LOT.

    This makes me sad since it's been bothering me ever since I made my first design. I spend a lot of time on my designs (roughly 5 hours) and then, to get a high compressed image with lower quality, ruined colors and jagged edges/lines when hitting 'Create' after all that work just makes me not wanting to put any efford in this anymore or not even bother with it at all because every time I hit 'Create' just to get something worse out of it it feels like a punch to the gut.

    Not to mention this will cost merets in the official release and I would rather buy smooth looking cash clothes instead of my own compressed stuff at this point.
    I can't express how much this bothers me as a person who wants to put their heart and soul into this aspect of the game.

    For solutions I would say to reduce the compression by a lot or idealy not convert PNGs into JPEGs when finalizing your creation (if that's even the case because I honestly have no clue how it actually works) so that we get what we see when using PNG files.

    I HOPE you guys look into this before the next BETA or even Official release, PLEASE.



    Thanks for reading

    Someone who cares a lot about the UGC feature~
    VixieAlexmoBudubuAlzack
  • LucisLucis
    Maplestory 2 Rep: 1,060
    Posts: 25
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    Miguelx wrote: »
    The interface for making gear is really simple and I really enjoy it personally and have no problems using it.

    One thing I would like to know is the line we can't cross in terms of sexually subjective.

    There's a lot of suggestive hentai ucg which I would expect to be removed seeing as how this is game available to children, but since there is a lot of it up still in the design shop, it leaves me wondering if it is simply allowed or if you guys are being lenient because it's a beta and everything will be wiped out regardless?

    On top of that, there's some images in the discord which people are uploading, and I wonder if they're usable come full launch simply because as I said, some are sexually subjective but not really anything excessive.

    Some examples of the images I talk about are as showed,
    av.jpg?width=169&height=300
    unknown.png?width=240&height=300
    2018-07-22_101.png

    One thing that worries me is that a lot of images that are in my opinion bannable are being shared and replicated within the discord outfit template channels. Meaning it's not being moderated at all. Is this something that will be fixed? I say this because I hope there will not be any repercussions coming from the channel making it so that ugc is removed from the game due to immaturity.

    There is no nudity at all on this

    Don't you think that you are being a little way too oldfashioned here mate?

    From what you said I thought people were upping hentai images as clothes(they are, just the face though unless you access that kind of material you wouldn't know that it is a hentai) with a lot of nudity but those images that you posted show even less skin than a normal bikini lol
    VixieAlexmoBudubuCurrybun
This discussion has been closed.