Check out the patch notes for the v20 Lovely Update here: http://maplestory2.nexon.net/en/news/article/55909/lovely-update-v20

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  • SherriSherri
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    Good points. Although the game should consider those who do like to play solo, people should also bring into account that they are indeed playing an MMO, which means that for a vast majority of it you will need to rely on others and others will need to rely on you. It's a social game, not a done and gone game such as Singleplayer games go.
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  • JuyaJuya
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    Pizzaaa wrote: »
    That's a big thread :O I'm forwarding this thing to the team so they can be aware of your concerns!

    O.M.G. Thank you!!
    @ iWreckless:

    I feel the comparison to Fortnite and League of Legends here is quite off, because the variability caused by other players is so much exponentially greater in a PvP game, than a very limited PvE design such as a PQ.

    At the end of the day, XP is quite possibly the most arbitrary thing an RPG has ever designed. It's a good thing to question 'why' exactly a Horny Mushroom isn't worth a point more or less than 35 XP. It's analogous to a level in a platforming Mario game having a duplicate of the exact same jump. The issue with REALLY long grinds, particularly in MMO's and not just RPG's, is that the jump is repeated near ad-infinitum, for hours and hours of game time.

    It's a facet of the genre that pretty universally would be marked as a downside in other genres. Game reviewers such as Total Biscuit have pointed out that nearly 'any' activity can be fun with friends. So just trying to toss people into a social blender to see what sticks is a very broad and imprecise tactic. I don't regret a single minute of my time playing some of my favorite, mostly quite short, videogames. I kind of regret the probably hundreds of aimless hours I spent in Pre- BB MS doing nothing constructive. (Although, let's be real, young teenage me wasn't gonna do much better with my time anyways.)

    The entire argument of 'needing' something to do or the like at cap is a bit flawed.

    There is NOTHING preventing a player from going out and mass farming mobs until they collect the exact # of 1000's of Lupin Bananas they wanted. Or the exact good-stat alignment of a item drop. There's nothing stopping a player from going out and exploring the world at cap. The only difference is there's not an arbitrary XP reward to entice you along. I find that having myself, the player, being driven on my own to go out and explore or kill new things is more rewarding.


    That part right there feels so wrong...The whole point of a game is to have something to DO.
    If you have to make silly goals like that, it means that you either got far in the game and there isn't much left to do or there is probably something wrong with the game.

    I'd really like to know who mentioned they wanted MS2 to be like Pre-bb in this thread, because I agree. The grind in pre-bb didn't seem fun at all.
    Also, about restart... it's the exact opposite. It's far too easy, you just talk to an NPC and level up. They even removed PQs for easy solo-dungeon.



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  • CosmicKirbyCosmicKirby
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    edited 1:34PM April 27, 2018
    iWreckless wrote: »
    @CosmicKirby

    I'm not entirely certain of the argument you are trying to drive at. From what I can gather you prefer the game giving you the option to choose to play solo, and when you so choose you can also join party plays? Instead of the game forcing a party oriented style on its player base? In theory that is sound. I can understand the rationale and intention (as I've stated in previous posts) with the timing of KMS2's restart patch. It was difficult to draw in (and retain) newer players because of the exp threshold that barred them from being able to catch up to the rest of the players who'd been playing for over a year. With fewer new players, the forced party play system was not optimal, and could be frustrating for newer players to try and level up/catch up, so in many ways it was intended as a way to bridge the gap.

    Most MMOs that's been on the market for a while will trend in that direction of expediting the earlier game to help ease newer players into the existing environment, and that is fine. What I have an issue with is introducing that system from the very beginning like the way CMS2 was launched, and not giving us a chance to enjoy and explore those contents by hand feeding us everything to level 50. I'm perfectly okay with being able to go from lv1-200 in MS1 in a week or so because the majority of the player base is lv200+, but that does not mean it'd have been a great game for MS1 to have launched in that state since the beginning.

    I understand that the comparison I drew was flawed since they are from different genres of game, but the point still stand. Those games were hugely successful because of the amount of emphasis they put in interactivity, team play, competitiveness, which are things that an MMO should also focus on, else why not just play a good single player RPG?

    These elements are intrinsic to the fact that it is a player vs player experience. Ludi PQ, or platforms worth of mobs never evolved or changed or required significantly different interactivity on the player's part. The average match of a PvP FPS or Moba game absolutely does, that's what makes them compelling, because they aren't nearly identical each time. Long grinds or requiring to repeat content is nearly identical each time it is done
    Juya wrote: »
    Pizzaaa wrote: »
    That's a big thread :O I'm forwarding this thing to the team so they can be aware of your concerns!

    O.M.G. Thank you!!
    @ iWreckless:

    I feel the comparison to Fortnite and League of Legends here is quite off, because the variability caused by other players is so much exponentially greater in a PvP game, than a very limited PvE design such as a PQ.

    At the end of the day, XP is quite possibly the most arbitrary thing an RPG has ever designed. It's a good thing to question 'why' exactly a Horny Mushroom isn't worth a point more or less than 35 XP. It's analogous to a level in a platforming Mario game having a duplicate of the exact same jump. The issue with REALLY long grinds, particularly in MMO's and not just RPG's, is that the jump is repeated near ad-infinitum, for hours and hours of game time.

    It's a facet of the genre that pretty universally would be marked as a downside in other genres. Game reviewers such as Total Biscuit have pointed out that nearly 'any' activity can be fun with friends. So just trying to toss people into a social blender to see what sticks is a very broad and imprecise tactic. I don't regret a single minute of my time playing some of my favorite, mostly quite short, videogames. I kind of regret the probably hundreds of aimless hours I spent in Pre- BB MS doing nothing constructive. (Although, let's be real, young teenage me wasn't gonna do much better with my time anyways.)

    The entire argument of 'needing' something to do or the like at cap is a bit flawed.

    There is NOTHING preventing a player from going out and mass farming mobs until they collect the exact # of 1000's of Lupin Bananas they wanted. Or the exact good-stat alignment of a item drop. There's nothing stopping a player from going out and exploring the world at cap. The only difference is there's not an arbitrary XP reward to entice you along. I find that having myself, the player, being driven on my own to go out and explore or kill new things is more rewarding.


    That part right there feels so wrong...The whole point of a game is to have something to DO.
    If you have to make silly goals like that, it means that you either got far in the game and there isn't much left to do or there is probably something wrong with the game.

    I'd really like to know who mentioned they wanted MS2 to be like Pre-bb in this thread, because I agree. The grind in pre-bb didn't seem fun at all.
    Also, about restart... it's the exact opposite. It's far too easy, you just talk to an NPC and level up. They even removed PQs for easy solo-dungeon.



    This is similar logic to asking devs to add unlocks or progression systems in a multiplayer game. There is nothing 'to' these systems on any level. It's the illusion of a slowly progressing game system defined by an arbitrary amount of simply repeating yourself. Back in the day, there were NO unlocks to be had in TF2, Street Fighter, Counter Strike, etc. The Fun was there because the action was fun, you played because the action of playing was enjoyable, and not because there was a progress bar just a couple games away from filling. There's no benefit to the system that one can't emulate by implementing some bizarre schedule in your real life, that limits you to only watching movies in 10 minutes blocks. It's just a skinner box, one that does not work out on the consumer's end at all.

    If a game is actually fun enough to hold your attention, it should be able to do so by the end of it..
  • SerfrostSerfrost
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    edited 1:42PM April 27, 2018
    @CosmicKirby You uh.. double-quoted. Lol

    Edit: Glad ya fixed it. lol
  • CosmicKirbyCosmicKirby
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    Rukario wrote: »
    @CosmicKirby You uh.. double-quoted. Lol

    Edit: Glad ya fixed it. lol

    I edited it within 20 seconds of posting, wonder if there's a lag to updating edits on the forums.
    Serfrost
  • MewziaMewzia
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    edited 2:10PM April 27, 2018
    I'm terrified ;_; I was excited for MS2 about 5 years ago and seeing all the hard work from day 1 that people put in and work together to do I was looking forward to! I want my game to start at level 1, not level 50. :c Please please GMS2 I want to slowly explore this world with friends, not rush to the end game to do dungeons like they're chores! If I can slowly work my way up and take little casual moments to spend on my home and visit other people's houses and do party quests with them I'm gonna have way more fun and have a lot more reason to invest in nx for this game - not so if after doing a bunch of solo quests I'm level 50 and then sent off to grind gear to keep up with everyone else for the same content.

    I dunno. I feel like rushing people to all be the same has the opposite effect on me. If going from level 1 - 99 is all around challenging, then seeing higher levels is just going to be more impressive and make me more determined and make me play more than if we're all rushed to level 50 and suddenly get a HUGE difficulty increase and grind for the last 49 levels. It might as just well be level 1 with a level cap at 49 then! I dunno man, I ain't good with words. :c I'm not a fan of insane grinds but, goodness, I want to work for my progress, for every level! I want there to be content from levels 1 - 50, not for it to just go by in a day! D:
    Edit: Another thing I thought of - monsters. If you go by 1 - 50 so fast then it makes all the monsters in that level range pointless. It feels so... wasted. There's so much content that could be challenging to people at different stages but with that quest system, it's all pointless then. It's much more boring to travel around and one-shot everything you find... I want to explore with friends and be able to be worried about dying!
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  • TokenOtakuTokenOtaku
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    edited 2:22PM April 27, 2018
    This needs to be changed. I've never seen a single-player MMORPG(which shouldn't be a thing in the first place) be successful. Unless it has a name behind it that was already popular, to begin with.(SWOTR, LOTRO, ESO) Hopefully, Maplestory doesn't go down that route unless it really needs too.
    JuyaSherriStrykerYamato
  • CosmicKirbyCosmicKirby
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    Mewzia wrote: »
    I'm terrified ;_; I was excited for MS2 about 5 years ago and seeing all the hard work from day 1 that people put in and work together to do I was looking forward to! I want my game to start at level 1, not level 50. :c Please please GMS2 I want to slowly explore this world with friends, not rush to the end game to do dungeons like they're chores! If I can slowly work my way up and take little casual moments to spend on my home and visit other people's houses and do party quests with them I'm gonna have way more fun and have a lot more reason to invest in nx for this game - not so if after doing a bunch of solo quests I'm level 50 and then sent off to grind gear to keep up with everyone else for the same content.

    I dunno. I feel like rushing people to all be the same has the opposite effect on me. If going from level 1 - 99 is all around challenging, then seeing higher levels is just going to be more impressive and make me more determined and make me play more than if we're all rushed to level 50 and suddenly get a HUGE difficulty increase and grind for the last 49 levels. It might as just well be level 1 with a level cap at 49 then! I dunno man, I ain't good with words. :c I'm not a fan of insane grinds but, goodness, I want to work for my progress, for every level! I want there to be content from levels 1 - 50, not for it to just go by in a day! D:
    Edit: Another thing I thought of - monsters. If you go by 1 - 50 so fast then it makes all the monsters in that level range pointless. It feels so... wasted. There's so much content that could be challenging to people at different stages but with that quest system, it's all pointless then. It's much more boring to travel around and one-shot everything you find... I want to explore with friends and be able to be worried about dying!

    I think your fear here is a bit misplaced.

    While characters are 'maxed' and have all of their abilities at level 50, the current cap on other versions is level 99. This cap has been in place for almost 2 years now, and as far as I can tell, noone has yet hit level 99, although some are in their 90's.

    That feeling of a very long grind and showing off your high levels is still there. Half of a character's kit and 'fun buttons' are just not locked behind such a massive hurdle.
  • SerfrostSerfrost
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    edited 2:52PM April 27, 2018
    I think your fear here is a bit misplaced.

    While characters are 'maxed' and have all of their abilities at level 50, the current cap on other versions is level 99. This cap has been in place for almost 2 years now, and as far as I can tell, noone has yet hit level 99, although some are in their 90's.

    CMS2 is capped at 65, and their most recent patch made it much easier to hit that cap. Instead, we now get Adventure Levels that go up to 95~99 which give your character some perks like special cosmetics and extra stats.

    KMS2, however I haven't played, is indeed at a 99 cap.
    SherriCosmicKirbyKlamLakrids
  • TokenOtakuTokenOtaku
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    I think your fear here is a bit misplaced.

    While characters are 'maxed' and have all of their abilities at level 50, the current cap on other versions is level 99. This cap has been in place for almost 2 years now, and as far as I can tell, noone has yet hit level 99, although some are in their 90's.

    That feeling of a very long grind and showing off your high levels is still there. Half of a character's kit and 'fun buttons' are just not locked behind such a massive hurdle.
    I don't think that their fear was misplaced. I think you miss interpreted what they were trying to say.

    I think what they were trying to say was, what is the point in having a game with soo much dead content that you can skip with doing a quest chain from 1 - 50? If the game is freshly released and the players haven't been through that content before. Why have a catchup mechanic for a game that doesn't even have people at max level to catch up too?

    I know you must not have enough time to play games/MMORPG's nowadays(assuming) but from reading your posts it sounds like you just want everything given to you easily. And don't want to work for anything because it's "obnoxious".(paraphrasing) You enjoy short games, but most people that play MMORPG's play them because they want a longer game. That may even be "tedious". So that they can overcome content with others.(not saying BDO grind but still) Why play alone together? Skyrim is an amazing game, Witcher is also an amazing game. If I wanted MMO content in a single player experience I'd play one of those games.

    People are so quick to forget what MapleStory Originally was like and where MapleStory started. The game on release and all the way up too v.82? Getting to level 30 a hard task It was fun but won't go through it again.

    My point is that slowly getting haste to level 20 was a choice you had to make at risk of damage. But people did it because Haste was such a highly sought after ability. And people would ask you for the 20-30(forgot) minute buff so they could travel around the world faster and get to their grinding spots faster together which made a social experience that I haven't saw in such a long time. And even though only in theory that's what an MMORPG is. It's a world that people experience together. And the further away from that MMO's get. The further away MMORPG's are from being MMO's. Like why play alone together when you can just pick a single player game that does that WAY better than an MMO can ever hope.

    TL;DR: MMO's are massively multiplayer for a reason. If you want to play alone together with people. Over 70% of modern MMO already do that. And they've had years of content that makes them way better than MapleStory2 could ever hope for on release.

    PS: if you don't understand a word I just wrote I am sorry. I am not the brightest bulb, I just really enjoy MMORPGs
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  • LOVE_INJECTIONLOVE_INJECTION
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    but its trailer had such pretty girls, how could it be bad :(
    TokenOtakuSherriKlamLakrids
  • NorthboundNorthbound
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    Feels like a whole lot of people in this thread have no idea what they're ranting about. A lot of the stuff people are feeling nostalgic for ***never existed in MS2***, either before or after reset. PQs were always a laughably inefficient way to level up in MS2. Leveling to 50 was never some month/year long journey. Any decent player would have it done in about a week pre-restart. When the game launched and the level cap was 30, my entire guild got there on day 1. There's tons of social and group content at and after level 50, but the issue is that it's so damn easy. Same goes for the leveling content. Taking mindlessly easy content and requiring that the player does it 100x/1000x over doesn't make the content fun. It's still mindlessly easy, but now it's tedious too. That's exactly what simply raising the XP requirements to level up would do. The old MS1 system was awful, and there's a very good reason why that kind of progression has died off in MMOs. Remember, the KMS2 playerbase was bleeding out way before restart.

    It's also hilarious to see people talking about how quest-based leveling means they wouldn't get to see all the content that MS2 offers. It's probably the opposite. The efficient way to progress through MS2 before the restart was to stay in about 6 or 7 popular grind spots and mindlessly tag mobs from level 10 to 50. There wasn't a reason to go explore the world. With the questline, you actually do get to see a lot of the maps in the game world. Even if they're now shorter, you actually do get to do the dungeons that you would have otherwise skipped over completely pre-restart. If you think you would have gone exploring just because pre-restart had slow leveling, there's no reason you wouldn't do the same now. If you were a noob in KMS2 and did PQs to level, you'll probably be a noob in GMS2 and take a long time to cap out here too.
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  • SerfrostSerfrost
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    edited 5:24PM April 27, 2018
    Northbound wrote: »
    It's also hilarious to see people talking about how quest-based leveling means they wouldn't get to see all the content that MS2 offers. It's probably the opposite. The efficient way to progress through MS2 before the restart was to stay in about 6 or 7 popular grind spots and mindlessly tag mobs from level 10 to 50. There wasn't a reason to go explore the world. With the questline, you actually do get to see a lot of the maps in the game world. Even if they're now shorter, you actually do get to do the dungeons that you would have otherwise skipped over completely pre-restart. If you think you would have gone exploring just because pre-restart had slow leveling, there's no reason you wouldn't do the same now. If you were a noob in KMS2 and did PQs to level, you'll probably be a noob in GMS2 and take a long time to cap out here too.

    You don't spend any time in the maps though. Seeing as how I just went from Lv1 to 50 last week, I have a fresh reminder. You run through every map to your next destination with no obligation to look at the scenery or take in any interesting views. You follow a navigation pointer to your next warp point, and... then you're in the next map within 45 seconds.

    The Epic Quest leveling is what really ruins it. There's no reason to search for a good map to farm or grind in. I'm not talking about grinding for hours, but you're not even given the premise that you could grind because Epic Quests are so infinitely better that it's absolutely pointless to kill mobs in any map.

    "That's your choice though." -- But, no, really it isn't a choice. Why would you choose to grind on mobs for 0.05% exp when your quest that takes 5 minutes grants you 25~45%? You are either stuck being by yourself doing nothing, or you can progress like everyone else opted in to do in order to get into the content that was thrusted onto the community. The Epic Quests basically became an absolute, mandatory requirement. There's no real way around it.

    Balancing it out? Sure, that would be nice. However, it seems to me it was the most balanced before the Restart Patch.

    There is no singularly correct way to go about it; it's just that--the way it is currently--it is entirely detrimental to the community.

    SherriMewziaKlamLakrids
  • NorthboundNorthbound
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    Serfrost wrote: »
    You don't spend any time in the maps though. Seeing as how I just went from Lv1 to 50 last week, I have a fresh reminder. You run through every map to your next destination with no obligation to look at the scenery or take in any interesting views. You follow a navigation pointer to your next warp point, and... then you're in the next map within 45 seconds.
    How is that the restart patch's fault? If you care more about leveling efficiently than exploring, then yeah, you'll be in and out of maps within a couple of minutes. But pre-restart, if you had that same mindset, you would just sit in one corner of the popular grind map. There's was never any obligation to explore things.
    Serfrost wrote: »
    The Epic Quest leveling is what really ruins it. There's no reason to search for a good map to farm or grind in. I'm not talking about grinding for hours, but you're not even given the premise that you could grind because Epic Quests are so infinitely better that it's absolutely pointless to kill mobs in any map.
    There's was never any searching for a good map. The good maps were spelled out in every leveling guide that people followed. And it wasn't a close choice either.
    Serfrost wrote: »
    "That's your choice though." -- But, no, really it isn't a choice. Why would you choose to grind on mobs for 0.05% exp when your quest that takes 5 minutes grants you 25~45%? You are either stuck being by yourself doing nothing, or you can progress like everyone else opted in to do in order to get into the content that was thrusted onto the community. The Epic Quests basically became an absolute, mandatory requirement. There's no real way around it.
    Yes, epic quests are basically required now. But they're not worse than pre-reset leveling. Mob grinding before level 50 is just as boring as it is after level 50. You're just no longer forced to do it. If you enjoy mob grinding, why not just do it after level 50? The great thing about hitting level 50 so fast is that it is now a choice. You can PvP, do social games, raid, dungeons, or mob grind. There was no real way around the mob grind to 50 pre-reset, but for those that didn't enjoy that kind of gameplay, it was a much bigger barricade than it is post-reset for people who don't enjoy questing.
    Serfrost wrote: »
    Balancing it out? Sure, that would be nice. However, it seems to me it was the most balanced before the Restart Patch.

    There is no singularly correct way to go about it; it's just that--the way it is currently--it is entirely detrimental to the community.
    It wasn't balanced pre-reset either. Everyone just grinded mobs. It was just as much of a choice to not do mob grinds as it is now to not do quests. There wasn't some big low level community pre-reset like there was for KPQ and LPQ in MS1. If Nexon wants to buff the XP from mob grinding while leveling to make it comparable to questing, I won't object. But going back to the pre-reset style of things isn't going to bring back the good old days that people keep bringing up.
  • SerfrostSerfrost
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    edited 6:22PM April 27, 2018
    My post was elaborated, however, wasn't separate points; my only point was about the Epic Quests and lack of initiative.

    ---
    Northbound wrote: »
    Yes, epic quests are basically required now. But they're not worse than pre-reset leveling. Mob grinding before level 50 is just as boring as it is after level 50. You're just no longer forced to do it. If you enjoy mob grinding, why not just do it after level 50? The great thing about hitting level 50 so fast is that it is now a choice. You can PvP, do social games, raid, dungeons, or mob grind. There was no real way around the mob grind to 50 pre-reset, but for those that didn't enjoy that kind of gameplay, it was a much bigger barricade than it is post-reset for people who don't enjoy questing.

    On the flip side, there isn't really any such thing as post-Lv50 mob grinding, because you still get most of your EXP from daily quests, dungeons, and raids. (Which you simply run through, trying to keep up with the Lv65 players with max gear, with stupidly fast mounts) It's a real shame.

    ---
    Northbound wrote: »
    If Nexon wants to buff the XP from mob grinding while leveling to make it comparable to questing, I won't object. But going back to the pre-reset style of things isn't going to bring back the good old days that people keep bringing up.

    This wouldn't be a bad idea. A buff in mob HP would be nice as well because as it stands, they're still at their pre-restart amount... in other words, you're killing them in one hit even with your weakest attack while you're at a lower level.

    On the contrary, this is a completely fresh start to a game that most people haven't even touched. There's no "good old days" to go back to since they never existed... but you don't want to trash the pre-game just because it was thrashed on the international versions.

    All-in-all, what I'm saying is they need to consider how they want to deliver the game instead of just accepting what KMS/CMS have done.

    To be fair, I enjoy the game. I just wish to express the issues that I don't want to see repeated on the game's global launch.
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  • NorthboundNorthbound
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    Serfrost wrote: »
    My comment wasn't separate points, it was all one point about Epic Quests and lack of initiative. That's it.

    ---
    Northbound wrote: »
    If Nexon wants to buff the XP from mob grinding while leveling to make it comparable to questing, I won't object. But going back to the pre-reset style of things isn't going to bring back the good old days that people keep bringing up.

    This wouldn't be a bad idea. A buff in mob HP would be nice as well because as it stands, they're still at their pre-restart amount... in other words, you're killing them in one hit even with your weakest attack while you're at a lower level.

    On the contrary, this is a completely fresh start to a game that most people haven't even touched. There's no "good old days" to go back to since they never existed... but you don't want to trash the pre-game just because it was thrashed on the international versions.

    All-in-all, what I'm saying is they need to consider how they want to deliver the game instead of just accepting what KMS/CMS have done.
    I just think it's doubtful that Nexon NA really has enough development resources to make such massive changes to the game for a localized version. They should be able to tweak numbers (including mob HP and XP values) fairly easily, but maintaining certain pre-restart changes while trying to also incorporate post-restart content is probably out of scope. I'd be happy if they increased mob HP & XP to bring mob grinding more in line with questing. It would also up the challenge and further encourage party play at all levels. The leveling dungeons still exist, so it shouldn't be unreasonable to make party play optional and scale the difficulty & rewards up appropriately.

    I just find it unproductive that a lot of people are blindly blaming the entire restart patch for things it didn't do. And undoing the restart patch entirely just isn't something I believe Nexon NA can realistically do. People should be focused on specific changes that are feasible to implement. Mostly, this means numerical changes rather than content or system overhauls.
    JuyaSerfrostCosmicKirbySherriKlamLakrids
  • SerfrostSerfrost
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    Northbound wrote: »
    People should be focused on specific changes that are feasible to implement. Mostly, this means numerical changes rather than content or system overhauls.

    Thankfully what Restart changed was mostly numerical. It's the partying and fun dungeons that people miss, and most of that could be changed just by adjusting damage output and enemy health / damage.

    Hopefully Nexon will do it right; we'll see.
    MewziaSherriKlamLakrids
  • AerinnAerinn
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    edited 12:52AM April 28, 2018
    .
    Sherri
  • NoonaNoona
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    edited 7:04PM April 27, 2018
    wow, seems like this thread blew up recently; appreciate all the comments and thought that went into them so other players can actual see "hey there is a big issue going on" and broaden the perspective of players who didn't even know this was an issue at all because they never played the other version's due to no access or ping restrictions. o/


    First, lets get to some of the points that gets talked about quite frequently here. EPIC Quest VS grinding - incentives for both sides.

    : MAIN point, i'd like you to know is that this game drives on SOCIAL INTERACTION & EXPLORATION. it is NOT meant to be a RAID/DUNGEON GAME. - Yes they are there but that isn't technically the main focus of this game. I wish i could word it better but the amount of content from lvling up to comparing to end game out weights end game by miles. Every 5 levels there is something to do. World bosses to kill for achievements x chances for better gear x cosmetics x events around the map x mini games x grinding & a TON OF EASTER EGGS ETC. that come with incentives. The only time you ran dungeons or raids is when you already finished all the other content because dungeons only gave GEAR to allow you the to do that EXPLORATION CONTENT that after gearing up bit by bit from them you would BE ABLE TO ENTER THE BIG RAIDS that everyone fought over. AFTER getting the big incentives for ACTUALLY EXPLORING and INTERACTING with the environment x players. THIS IS NOT A GENERIC MMORPG. ( PRE RESTART).

    - Epic Quest: The incentive for this is a heavy catch up mechanic to skip through a ton of content that was already nerfed pretty heavily so even if you wanted to stop at a certain point to do those events or content; it's more of a mini version to see "hey this is what's here" type of feeling. It wouldn't really bring much enjoyment aside from achievement hunting or just viewing that content that was cut down by quite a lot even the maps were made remodeled to make it shorter. Another thing is that A lot of the mechanics, maps, difficulty, dmg, hp via world bosses. dungeons were so tweaked that it's almost pointless to even attempt them to seek for any form of incentive that is worth the time you put into them. This is a catch up mechanic meant for "rushing a player through content but still allow the option for them to see what is there w/ no real incentives via STORY". (( A lot of the PQ's X raids were REMOVED as well)).

    - Grinding : Slowly level up a steady pace within a week you would hit the cap even if you TRIED to rush it. NONE of the CAPS took MONTHS to reach. So please do not compare these grinds to MS1 that is by far a big difference. These grinds would involve alot of things in between that would still give a good margin of EXP to not just be at 1 spot tagging non stop. Once you reached a level of the world bosses which were MANY and high difficulty that you would need at least 50 players to kill EFFECTIVELY. It would still give a big % towards your EXP because of the TIME YOU PUT INTO THESE BOSSES the game would reward for you EXPLORING THEM. Not to mention the possible loot drop of your own gear being PURPLE which was VERY SOUGHT AFTER to be able to level up faster or make interactions with other players to make mesos or possibly trade it for one of your classes gear. Most of the gear in the game was either green or blue if you actually ran a dungeon with a full party. There were many ways to levels. Either running the daily amount of dungeon(s), world bosses , exploration map discovery, gathering, & crafting that were pretty sought after due to high demand for not having a healer 100% of the time and other items. These gave a good margin of EXP % towards that level you were at. Yes mobs were the most EFFICIENT per hour but def wasn't the best or the only good option like how epic quests were. They even had a ton of party quests for lower levels that gave a massive amount of exp but it was difficult content yet those gave big incentives for the amount of time you put into them + the reward of quests. This version hardly GAVE you gear. You had to EARN THE GEAR YOURSELF. which wasn't highly time consuming. You just had to put EFFORT & TIME towards it.


    Please do not think that it was just TAG = BEST PER HR. There were many things to do before you even hit level cap and you would do them because it was a high incentive to do them for the level you were currently at and then you could go back to grinding which was a big break from the ole "grind grind grind grind nonstop". This game never felt grindy like most mmo's that just say. Hey you either grind , quest or the option to do both with breaks in between. It never felt like a chore to actually go to point Z from Point A because there was so much stuff do in between those points. The actual experience to hit level cap was by far one of the best i've ever experienced in any other MMO. The main "Hook" this game has before it had Restart was what you could do in this game and not feeling like a chore. The options you were given & the incentives given to you for the TIME you put into them were very satisfying to say the least.

    I hope this wall of text (lol) at least broadens your perspective from how the EXPERIENCE WAS OR IS FOR MS2 from not going too much in depth into each mechanic the game had. This was the over all feel. Yes it did not do well which initiated the restart patch but that was for quality of life issues not the actual concept behind that it had that restart patch completely changed. -- The FINISH LINE are the same but HOW YOU GOT THERE are DRASTICALLY different.

    -- Thanks for reading and hope to see more thoughtful debates & comments from you guys <3
    SherriLuminaEdgeMewziaTheCurrySauseBanditSeraphicXHopeLefteasKlamLakridsStrykerYamatoSukafu
  • SherriSherri
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 8,580
    Posts: 690
    Member
    Noona wrote: »
    wow, seems like this thread blew up recently; appreciate all the comments and thought that went into them so other players can actual see "hey there is a big issue going on" and broaden the perspective of players who didn't even know this was an issue at all because they never played the other version's due to no access or ping restrictions. o/


    First, lets get to some of the points that gets talked about quite frequently here. EPIC Quest VS grinding - incentives for both sides.

    : MAIN point, i'd like you to know is that this game drives on SOCIAL INTERACTION & EXPLORATION. it is NOT meant to be a RAID/DUNGEON GAME. - Yes they are there but that isn't technically the main focus of this game. I wish i could word it better but the amount of content from lvling up to comparing to end game out weights end game by miles. Every 5 levels there is something to do. World bosses to kill for achievements x chances for better gear x cosmetics x events around the map x mini games x grinding & a TON OF EASTER EGGS ETC. that come with incentives. The only time you ran dungeons or raids is when you already finished all the other content because dungeons only gave GEAR to allow you the to do that EXPLORATION CONTENT that after gearing up bit by bit from them you would BE ABLE TO ENTER THE BIG RAIDS that everyone fought over. AFTER getting the big incentives for ACTUALLY EXPLORING and INTERACTING with the environment x players. THIS IS NOT A GENERIC MMORPG. ( PRE RESTART).

    - Epic Quest: The incentive for this is a heavy catch up mechanic to skip through a ton of content that was already nerfed pretty heavily so even if you wanted to stop at a certain point to do those events or content; it's more of a mini version to see "hey this is what's here" type of feeling. It wouldn't really bring much enjoyment aside from achievement hunting or just viewing that content that was cut down by quite a lot even the maps were made remodeled to make it shorter. Another thing is that A lot of the mechanics, maps, difficulty, dmg, hp via world bosses. dungeons were so tweaked that it's almost pointless to even attempt them to seek for any form of incentive that is worth the time you put into them. This is a catch up mechanic meant for "rushing a player through content but still allow the option for them to see what is there w/ no real incentives via STORY". (( A lot of the PQ's X raids were REMOVED as well)).

    - Grinding : Slowly level up a steady pace within a week you would hit the cap even if you TRIED to rush it. NONE of the CAPS took MONTHS to reach. So please do not compare these grinds to MS1 that is by far a big difference. These grinds would involve alot of things in between that would still give a good margin of EXP to not just be at 1 spot tagging non stop. Once you reached a level of the world bosses which were MANY and high difficulty that you would need at least 50 players to kill EFFECTIVELY. It would still give a big % towards your EXP because of the TIME YOU PUT INTO THESE BOSSES the game would reward for you EXPLORING THEM. Not to mention the possible loot drop of your own gear being PURPLE which was VERY SOUGHT AFTER to be able to level up faster or make interactions with other players to make mesos or possibly trade it for one of your classes gear. Most of the gear in the game was either green or blue if you actually ran a dungeon with a full party. There were many ways to levels. Either running the daily amount of dungeon(s), world bosses , exploration map discovery, gathering, & crafting that were pretty sought after due to high demand for not having a healer 100% of the time and other items. These gave a good margin of EXP % towards that level you were at. Yes mobs were the most EFFICIENT per hour but def wasn't the best or the only good option like how epic quests were. They even had a ton of party quests for lower levels that gave a massive amount of exp but it was difficult content yet those gave big incentives for the amount of time you put into them + the reward of quests. This version hardly GAVE you gear. You had to EARN THE GEAR YOURSELF. which wasn't highly time consuming. You just had to put EFFORT & TIME towards it.


    Please do not think that it was just TAG = BEST PER HR. There were many things to do before you even hit level cap and you would do them because it was a high incentive to do them for the level you were currently at and then you could go back to grinding which was a big break from the ole "grind grind grind grind nonstop". This game never felt grindy like most mmo's that just say. Hey you either grind , quest or the option to do both with breaks in between. It never felt like a chore to actually go to point Z from Point A because there was so much stuff do in between those points. The actual experience to hit level cap was by far one of the best i've ever experienced in any other MMO. The main "Hook" this game has before it had Restart was what you could do in this game and not feeling like a chore. The options you were given & the incentives given to you for the TIME you put into them were very satisfying to say the least.

    I hope this wall of text (lol) at least broadens your perspective from how the EXPERIENCE WAS OR IS FOR MS2 from not going too much in depth into each mechanic the game had. This was the over all feel. Yes it did not do well which initiated the restart patch but that was for quality of life issues not the actual concept behind that it had that restart patch completely changed. -- The FINISH LINE are the same but HOW YOU GOT THERE are DRASTICALLY different.

    -- Thanks for reading and hope to see more thoughtful debates & comments from you guys <3

    You've summed it up very well, perfectly even. Way better than I could of.
    This is exactly the experience that I want in MS2. I don't want the whole game to hand feed me and I don't want it to feel like a chore, like 'do this dungeon once a day' and 'fight this boss 3 times a day' like in the original MapleStory.
    Or like how in Mabinogi you have these daily quests (sometimes event quests) to complete.
    It's fun at first when you join in the game but then it just turns into an annoying chore, especially to remind yourself and say 'oh god I forgot to do that?! This is gonna be a pain!'.
    Maybe that's just me I don't know
    NoonaMewziaLefteasKlamLakrids