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MS2 in South Korea has failed due to ..

rugurugu
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edited 11:00PM April 26, 2018 in General Chat
I have been playing Maplestory2 for nearly.. 3 years. I am one of the first members who played maplestory2 since it was launched in South Korea. (and I have very high understanding regarding this game Since I can speak Korean natively and Chinese a bit. I saw how this game was running in both countries and deeply understood the users there, which means that I am not the one who has no idea how was the management in KMS2 and CMS2)
I admit that MS2 in South Korea failed to succeed, indeed, I still remember the hype that I had in 2015. Well... The game itself was good and I was generally satisfied with it (and this is the only reason that I continued to play MS2, although I am living overseas which means withstanding high pings is demanded).
However poor management and Pay2win contents started to pop-up since 2016.
I saw and felt decline of maplestory2 in South Korea since the end of 2016. The management team was not doing well in catching bugs and macros from China and weird items and the pay2win system was taking place. Neat and clean game system was totally broken and cumbersome items were required and added after restart patch.

I am very excited for GMS2 and finally, I can enjoy this game with low ping. But please, Pay2win system should not be repeated.
I still prefer MS2(South Korea) at its launch status before "strengthening the weapon System renewer" and "restart patch"

Hopefully, GMS2 is different from what I saw in MS2 Korea
CmereSweetHeartiWrecklessQuiteSherriJuyaMeowrenColezkNilremNoonaTakatanaand 9 others.

Comments

  • CmereSweetHeartCmereSweetHeart
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    Let's hope the team for gms2 will do the right thing, then.
    JuyaSherriughmalefantasyNunah
  • iWrecklessiWreckless
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    But it's Nexon, where p2w is the standard path of progression... So honestly I'm not gonna keep my hopes up. But at least KMS2 had its good times for a year or so after launch. I'm just worried that GMS2 will start at post-restart patch, and we won't even have those good times before things go south...
    JuyaruguSherriVerglasEntezioNunah
  • CmereSweetHeartCmereSweetHeart
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    I still want to believe
    Sherri
  • rugurugu
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    edited 8:52PM April 26, 2018
    iWreckless wrote: »
    But it's Nexon, where p2w is the standard path of progression... So honestly I'm not gonna keep my hopes up. But at least KMS2 had its good times for a year or so after launch. I'm just worried that GMS2 will start at post-restart patch, and we won't even have those good times before things go south...

    I tried out CMS2 and well. This wasn't an issue XD
    It feels like KMS2 is the beta version for all features XD. Due to this, KMS2 has nasty item lineups while CMS2 has clean and neat item lineups.
    GMS2 is very likely to fix all of these issues that KMS2 and CMS2 had. So.. I am not really worried about the game; but management.. hm... that's the part that I am worried

    Well.. NEXON :P
    SherriLunii
  • LokieuLokieu
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    I expect it will be a matter of time before it's pay to win. Maplestory is the last IP I will ever expect to be a trend setter for P2W games. I'll enjoy it before it comes to that, though, and quit playing once it goes too far.
    Antarcticite
  • SickjeSickje
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    Ofcourse they will need a source of income, but they should keep the paid items just cosmetics like MS1 at the start. People will keep buying cosmetics in MS anyways because it just makes the characters way more adorible.
  • ughmalefantasyughmalefantasy
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    I hope it goes better this time.
  • TakatanaTakatana
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    I'm wondering if someone here has done research or has inside knowledge in the field of MMORPGs? I dislike p2w as much as everyone else, but MMOs are expensive to make. It's possible that cosmetic-only revenue schemes just don't bring in enough money.
    I always thought that the "pay once" model was the best for MMORPGs, since it allows you to avoid p2w, and since subscriptions really pile up over time. It does suck when a game can't be free-to-play, though.
  • JonnJonn
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    I wonder if the outcries about p2w is because the power potential ceiling is so high, and so people who pay to play can get way more powerful than non-paying customers. If the game is perfectly playable without paying a cent, and I can do everything in the game like bossing (granted I have friends to help), then I don't really see the problem.
  • HarryOstonHarryOston
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    I understabd your opinion..
    I hope the same.
  • rugurugu
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    edited 10:54PM April 26, 2018
    Takatana wrote: »
    I'm wondering if someone here has done research or has inside knowledge in the field of MMORPGs? I dislike p2w as much as everyone else, but MMOs are expensive to make. It's possible that cosmetic-only revenue schemes just don't bring in enough money.
    I always thought that the "pay once" model was the best for MMORPGs, since it allows you to avoid p2w, and since subscriptions really pile up over time. It does suck when a game can't be free-to-play, though.

    MMORPG requires lots of money for development and I agree.
    In my perspective, paying users should benefit some from paying. However, it shouldn't be crossing the line.
    This line (standpoint) may vary by users; but for me, I think unpaying users should be able to catch up with paying users by putting 2~3 times more on playing.
    Rainthesword
  • LokieuLokieu
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    Takatana wrote: »
    I'm wondering if someone here has done research or has inside knowledge in the field of MMORPGs? I dislike p2w as much as everyone else, but MMOs are expensive to make. It's possible that cosmetic-only revenue schemes just don't bring in enough money.
    I always thought that the "pay once" model was the best for MMORPGs, since it allows you to avoid p2w, and since subscriptions really pile up over time. It does suck when a game can't be free-to-play, though.

    I did a report in college about the different payment models / P2W / Microtransactions / ETC. Free to play is the most profitable because it hasnt caught on to being a negative marketing scheme yet and it's brutally popular, especially in NA thanks to mobile gaming. In regards to PC gaming however, look at a game like Bless Online that spent 60 million in development. They have to wring out every drop they can get in profit from those games without upsetting players, and it's just not possible to do it with cosmetics only in the F2F market for "triple A games" because the people that make a real difference are the whales that literally dump money into the game because they can afford it. The more lucrative options there are the better, and P2W options are the most lucrative. Servers cost money, new content costs money, its a vicious cycle and things wouldn't go P2W if it didn't work. I wish we could turn back time and go back to B2P with a monthly subscription and remove cash shops entirely.

    The end all be all is that GMS2, no matter where it is, will end up being P2W, but no one can say when that will be. Even if the developers pledged that there wont be P2W, its ultimately up to publishers once they get their hands on it. Anyone is free to disagree with me, its not like I linked my sources and I only did this research for a final.
    TakatanaTassy
  • MeridanMeridan
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    Fingers crossed Nex America takes a pragmatic approach!
  • BluclueBluclue
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    edited 3:48AM April 27, 2018
    Imo, it will be a miracle if it does not turn out to be pay2win. However, maplestory2 has many social aspects that i look forward to and i dont really care about 'winning'. Im more into the player-creative aspect of MS2 and of course, making friends.
  • AntarcticiteAntarcticite
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    Lokieu wrote: »
    I expect it will be a matter of time before it's pay to win. Maplestory is the last IP I will ever expect to be a trend setter for P2W games. I'll enjoy it before it comes to that, though, and quit playing once it goes too far.

    Completely agree with this. Once they start releasing the items that give huge advantages over other players (cubes) I can see a large majority of people leaving. A lot of people aren't willing to put up with Korean P2W tactics anymore and judging by how bad Maplestory 2 did when it released in Korea we aren't the only ones.

    However they have probably seen how badly the game failed in Korea and don't want a repeat mistake, hopefully they realise this and actually try to balance the cash shop.

    Lokieu
  • rugurugu
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    edited 4:48AM April 27, 2018
    Lokieu wrote: »
    However they have probably seen how badly the game failed in Korea and don't want a repeat mistake, hopefully they realise this and actually try to balance the cash shop.

    Well, CMS2 is sort of improved version of KMS2.
    I can see some improvements regarding item trees and other game systems. It is neater and cleaned up.
  • SmackYouUpSmackYouUp
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    Lokieu wrote: »
    Takatana wrote: »
    I'm wondering if someone here has done research or has inside knowledge in the field of MMORPGs? I dislike p2w as much as everyone else, but MMOs are expensive to make. It's possible that cosmetic-only revenue schemes just don't bring in enough money.
    I always thought that the "pay once" model was the best for MMORPGs, since it allows you to avoid p2w, and since subscriptions really pile up over time. It does suck when a game can't be free-to-play, though.

    I did a report in college about the different payment models / P2W / Microtransactions / ETC. Free to play is the most profitable because it hasnt caught on to being a negative marketing scheme yet and it's brutally popular, especially in NA thanks to mobile gaming. In regards to PC gaming however, look at a game like Bless Online that spent 60 million in development. They have to wring out every drop they can get in profit from those games without upsetting players, and it's just not possible to do it with cosmetics only in the F2F market for "triple A games" because the people that make a real difference are the whales that literally dump money into the game because they can afford it. The more lucrative options there are the better, and P2W options are the most lucrative. Servers cost money, new content costs money, its a vicious cycle and things wouldn't go P2W if it didn't work. I wish we could turn back time and go back to B2P with a monthly subscription and remove cash shops entirely.

    The end all be all is that GMS2, no matter where it is, will end up being P2W, but no one can say when that will be. Even if the developers pledged that there wont be P2W, its ultimately up to publishers once they get their hands on it. Anyone is free to disagree with me, its not like I linked my sources and I only did this research for a final.

    Nice to see some insight regarding this issue. I've been pondering / researching this issue from time to time and have always ended up with the conclusion that P2W is still not the most sustainable model. I feel like what makes or breaks a game these days is with transparency. Good communication with your core audience is HUGE because it not only keeps your initial fan base motivated to play, but it also encourages the recruitment of new players to the game.

    Find out what your community wants / does not want to pay for and you'll know where to best invest your dollars. Hell, you can even charge a little more of a premium on your cosmetic items and people will buy that. A prime example of this is with Path of Exile. For those of you who have played the game, the developers have made SO much progress and development in their business because they stay connected. I've played the game for over 4 years now, and I don't even want to know how much I've spent on the game (pretty sure it's in the four digits). Keep in mind that this is coming from someone who never had the intention to pay for a F2P game when I first started. It had simply been my willingness to support the devs for the amount of work put in to create new and relevant content, while keeping the game free from any P2W aspects.

    The P2W gacha model to me is a very short-sighted model for publishers. Every time I see it, it just screams "Well, here's a new game that everyone is hyped for, so let's make some profit off of this before the game dies off in [/i]x years[/i]." It shouldn't be like that, ever. Your goal is to gather a core audience group and build off of it so that you have a long-term, sustainable business model. People should pay you because they want to support you.

    I could talk about this all day long, but this is the gist of my opinion anyway. Each business structure is different, and this level of communication might not be possible from Nexon NA's standpoint due to the time required to relay information to the devs and what not.

    I'm still very happy that this game finally made its way to the West and am still looking forward to it. :) I sincerely hope that the previous news on KMS2 and CMS2 won't deter people from playing the game before it actually comes out.
    LokieuTakatanaRainthesword
  • PosePose
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    While I completely agree I'm definitely afraid they will still go the same route. If I had to bet on it, I'd say gms2 will start with the restart patch along with adding p2w aspects.
  • LokieuLokieu
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    edited 9:20AM April 27, 2018
    SmackYouUp wrote: »
    Lokieu wrote: »
    Takatana wrote: »
    I'm wondering if someone here has done research or has inside knowledge in the field of MMORPGs? I dislike p2w as much as everyone else, but MMOs are expensive to make. It's possible that cosmetic-only revenue schemes just don't bring in enough money.
    I always thought that the "pay once" model was the best for MMORPGs, since it allows you to avoid p2w, and since subscriptions really pile up over time. It does suck when a game can't be free-to-play, though.

    I did a report in college about the different payment models / P2W / Microtransactions / ETC. Free to play is the most profitable because it hasnt caught on to being a negative marketing scheme yet and it's brutally popular, especially in NA thanks to mobile gaming. In regards to PC gaming however, look at a game like Bless Online that spent 60 million in development. They have to wring out every drop they can get in profit from those games without upsetting players, and it's just not possible to do it with cosmetics only in the F2F market for "triple A games" because the people that make a real difference are the whales that literally dump money into the game because they can afford it. The more lucrative options there are the better, and P2W options are the most lucrative. Servers cost money, new content costs money, its a vicious cycle and things wouldn't go P2W if it didn't work. I wish we could turn back time and go back to B2P with a monthly subscription and remove cash shops entirely.

    The end all be all is that GMS2, no matter where it is, will end up being P2W, but no one can say when that will be. Even if the developers pledged that there wont be P2W, its ultimately up to publishers once they get their hands on it. Anyone is free to disagree with me, its not like I linked my sources and I only did this research for a final.

    Nice to see some insight regarding this issue. I've been pondering / researching this issue from time to time and have always ended up with the conclusion that P2W is still not the most sustainable model. I feel like what makes or breaks a game these days is with transparency. Good communication with your core audience is HUGE because it not only keeps your initial fan base motivated to play, but it also encourages the recruitment of new players to the game.

    Find out what your community wants / does not want to pay for and you'll know where to best invest your dollars. Hell, you can even charge a little more of a premium on your cosmetic items and people will buy that. A prime example of this is with Path of Exile. For those of you who have played the game, the developers have made SO much progress and development in their business because they stay connected. I've played the game for over 4 years now, and I don't even want to know how much I've spent on the game (pretty sure it's in the four digits). Keep in mind that this is coming from someone who never had the intention to pay for a F2P game when I first started. It had simply been my willingness to support the devs for the amount of work put in to create new and relevant content, while keeping the game free from any P2W aspects.

    The P2W gacha model to me is a very short-sighted model for publishers. Every time I see it, it just screams "Well, here's a new game that everyone is hyped for, so let's make some profit off of this before the game dies off in [/i]x years[/i]." It shouldn't be like that, ever. Your goal is to gather a core audience group and build off of it so that you have a long-term, sustainable business model. People should pay you because they want to support you.

    I could talk about this all day long, but this is the gist of my opinion anyway. Each business structure is different, and this level of communication might not be possible from Nexon NA's standpoint due to the time required to relay information to the devs and what not.

    I'm still very happy that this game finally made its way to the West and am still looking forward to it. :) I sincerely hope that the previous news on KMS2 and CMS2 won't deter people from playing the game before it actually comes out.

    Thank you for your input.
    B2P + A monthly subscription is the most sustainable model, but not the most profitable. It's also become the least popular for reasons I'm getting to below. I'm not arguing that P2W is the most sustainable but that F2P is the most popular choice because of it's ability to milk its consumer base over the long term in small amounts, making it the most profitable. People that didn't know any better ended up spending thousands of dollars in Candy Crush on extra lives because they are small purchases that add up, but because the initial cost is low the average consumer convinces themselves that "one more won't hurt." That's the entire mentality behind Microtransactions.

    Also, it's a cultural difference. Where WoW has a monthly subscription in NA, in China it was that players total time playing would equal what they paid in the end. F2P is widely popular because of its accessibility, which is its biggest leverage on other business models. Low-income gamers are able to still have immediate access to the game and put whatever money they have towards small purchases. Whales are able to dump their money into the product because the gsme gives them the option to. This is the most important part of the F2P model because everyone can buy into the system extremely easily. So instead of revenue being a one time purchase followed by a small income earned monthly, F2P is a literal constant revenue generating machine that anyone can pay in to. Even children have immediate access to it.

    But I agree on your social points, Nexon is extremely short sited when it comes to decisions they make for their player base and there is a complete lack of connection between developer / consumer which is one of the reasons why KMS2 is failing. And it's funny you mention Path of Exile, that's one of my favorite examples of F2P working well. But in regards to Nexon, I don't believe that it is an issue of relaying information within the company, I think its carelessness + greed + disconnect from the modern gamer.