Check out the patch notes for the v17 Precursor Update here: http://maplestory2.nexon.net/en/news/article/53778/precursor-update-v17

Could Nexon at least address the problems

AlphandaAlphanda
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edited 4:04PM January 17, 2019 in General Chat
Before anything I would like to state for the record that I hate this name but not enough to make a whole new account.
So, Maplestory 2, a fairly good start to the sequel of a very popular game, amazing graphics, great story line, lots of fun stuff to do. I only started playing this game to be better than my cousin (he was like a level 22 wiz so it wasn't exactly hard), but even after I hit level 23 I was having fun so I kept going. Now I'm level 60, prestige level 87 with legendary weapons and more friends in game than in real life; but most notably, I'm also on the verge of just quitting.
I have similar complaints as the rest of the community, fair fight in hard dungeons and Sky Fortress Rumble (World bosses aren't at an ideal spot either but it's not as big for me), RNG based progression, lack of content for non-end game players. But deeper than that, my problem is that it seems like Nexon developers either aren't listening or just don't care.
Every single "State Of The Game" blog I read is focused on botters and random stuff about UGCs and quality of life stuff for home design. Maybe once or twice I've seen the good old 'We hear your complaints and we're working on it but can't tell you anything yet', but that's a load of bull come on, it's like my doctor saying "Yeah I see that you've been shot and need treatment but I need to work on it give me some time". Your game is dying now and fast; don't worry about botters or losing a couple of the whales, worry about the 90%+ that you already lost and the 90% of the remainder that you're about to lose.
If we could have at least have a nuanced discussion about the big problems in this game between all spectrum of players (casual to extreme hard core) AND someone from Nexon who can actually do something, then I can at least have some hope that this game can at least keep the remainder of it's player base. I'm not asking for an overhaul, I'm not demanding that Jung Soo Lee listen to our every command, I just want Nexon to join the conversation.
Even if it means taking severe criticism that's only 1% constructive, even if it means you have to talk to 12 year olds asking "WOAW DO U EVEN PLAY UR OWN GAME GITGUD LIKE FORTNITE", hell even if you guys aren't planning to change anything, at least be open with us, because right now our words are falling on deaf ears.
Edit:
The producer blog posted on 1/17/19. THIS is exactly what I was talking about. Just saying "We hear you and we're working on it but can't tell you anything sorry :(" is meaningless, but now they've come out with a timeline and schedule for improving the game based on their experience as well as ours. This is exactly what I wanted to see. I hope they can look past the shallow 12 year olds who want everything given to them and hard-asses with some weird "gitgud and stop bitching or quit" agenda and work with the small percentage of the reasonable people to make this game work. Actions speak louder than words, and although this whole thing doesn't start for another month, just giving us a timeline and game plan is possibly the best thing Nexon has done so far.
DanDKDefraglifeClericeru

Comments

  • WiLBoYWiLBoY
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    They have listened to certain things and people still complained. People just love to complain so why bother. Let the ppl who complain quit and the ppl who enjoy the game will play regardless
    Soami
  • AlphandaAlphanda
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    Of course even they fix all of the issues mentioned above and more people will still complain, but these are pretty big issues, not just some minor quality of life problems. Dungeons are everything in this game, and people have cleared Chaos Devorak faster than I've cleared Balrog (NaW record is at 2:35). Removing fair fight will make hard dungeons obsolete, but to that point CDEV carries are probably cheaper than Rog carries now. Sure there are people who will still play no matter what, but my worry is that that population will only be the super hard-core players and not all the great friends I made and could make if this game stays alive.
    DefraglifeCryotronFeifeiDu
  • ÄrtÄrt
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    They could, just like they could hire 1 guy per region to go around and actively ban bots but they won't be doing that either.
    DanDK
  • VisualFxxVisualFxx
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    Ärt wrote: »
    They could, just like they could hire 1 guy per region to go around and actively ban bots but they won't be doing that either.

    I've brought this up as well as Jr. GM's with extremely limited power although that could still get out of hand. But even if their "power" was that their reports were reviewed immediately or at a much faster pace, that would be good enough. But again any half decent idea falls to the way side. I can't see how hard it is if you can't afford to hire someone to specifically do that, to just get people within the community to be able to do some kind of work. Maybe all accounts that received 0 bans, 0 reports and have a lengthy amount of in game time and a discord channel for them only + someone from Nexon so that they can check in on a regular basis to see what the Jr's have found.
  • CryotronCryotron
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    edited 4:51AM January 15, 2019
    Alphanda wrote: »
    Of course even they fix all of the issues mentioned above and more people will still complain, but these are pretty big issues, not just some minor quality of life problems. Dungeons are everything in this game, and people have cleared Chaos Devorak faster than I've cleared Balrog (NaW record is at 2:35). Removing fair fight will make hard dungeons obsolete, but to that point CDEV carries are probably cheaper than Rog carries now. Sure there are people who will still play no matter what, but my worry is that that population will only be the super hard-core players and not all the great friends I made and could make if this game stays alive.

    I think this is the biggest "OOF" I've ever read so far. Having Chaos Raid more cheaper than a Hard Dungeon and can be cleared faster too...

    At this rate, people just do Hard Dungeon because of Onyx Crystals and just want to do it quick and painless just because how much of a bore it is. I can definitely see R>Rog +15 Legendary Weps Only at the Party Finder. Thanks to FF, this statement heavily reflects on itself.

    People will still complain. It's a given. No game is perfect... unlike Path of Exile... Oh wait... my friends don't have a commitment to get into the game because my personal problem is that it does take commitment to get into the game not like this one. Smell what i'm stepping in?

    The developers will probably listen. Just I doubt they'll ever figure out why the majority of the people left and will only listen to the selfish but dedicated playerbase. Judging by the actions they've done: Released Infernog for those players, Rumbles with BLOODY FAIR FIGHT without any changes that particularly solve the issue.

    At least the Soul Binder is a fun class. Right? RIGHT!?
    Anami
  • LuminaEdgeLuminaEdge
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    I really don't get why even though Nexon/Jungsoo lee has been constantly saying rng changes are being worked on, people insist on making repetitive threads about it? Yes its been delayed a few times, complaining about that is actually a bit justified but at the same time its a sign that MAYBE the changes they want to show is going to actually be substantial?

    you guys just keep going, when there's literally nothing you guys can do besides wait. Despite so many of the blog posts trying to make compromises, people are so intent on saying nexon doesn't listen, when they literally have made posts specifically addressing complaints. Sure it may not have been exactly what was asked, but they were in fact listening to try a compromise. So its a lie to say they aren't.

    I agree with the rng issues, but im starting to see that even after the changes some of you guys will literally never be satisfied, and are just going to move on to the next inconvenience once they finally announce these changes. Probably to scream about the one thing they didn't change. Anyways, keep making the repetitive threads despite a fix being in the works, and continue beating a dead horse till its glue. I'm bored of this once entertaining forum now.
    Soami
  • AnamiAnami
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    It certainly doesn't help Nexon has been lying and then trying to cover up their lies too, lel. Honestly my biggest issue with them isn't the RNG, but the fact they're letting blatant exploiters and cheaters get away with it. I wouldn't be annoyed with fair fight being on sky fortress dungeons if it were never promised it wouldn't be on there and then of course the fact they tried to hide the promise was ever made(Bless the souls who screenshotted it.)
  • AsukuraAsukura
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    edited 3:46PM January 15, 2019
    Maplestory 2 is a broken experience. It's going to be hard for them to "fix" the game by changing stuff because it's not like there is anything wrong with what there already is, even if it's not that much. People are still going to be rushed towards end game and focus on nothing but the dungeons. Unless there's a drastic change, like a complete overhaul, changing how dungeons work isn't going to do much. So, aside from Maplestory 2 being a shallow game, it is also a shallow gaming experience because the game nudges you through 90%. Yes, 90%, from level 1 to 50 when you're being walked through the game by the main story line. It doesn't matter if you spent hundreds of hours grinding out content from 50 to 60, or mainly 60, the bulk of the content that the game developers had created was skipped over. The game already doesn't have much to offer as a RPG. It's focused on dungeon spamming, not even crawling, just straight up spamming. The little variants of "life skills" are just reskins of the same activity: hitting space bar. Everything is incredibly dumb-ed down and offers no challenge, and this lack of challenge creates no incentive to play this game. The only incentive people really had was the gamble-fest of an RNG grind with enhancement. Then when that dried up the game had nothing else to offer. It skipped over most of what it developed and focused on one single content. The people managing the game even reinforced this one content mindset by solely focusing on dungeons and shallow gear progression. This game is so hand-holdy and automated that it is a blown up mobile game, thus most people have already grinded out the game play experience of Maplestory 2.

    They can and should add more content to the game. Not just more dungeons and gear because that's just an endless loop for an "end-game" when there is no base game. They would have to add enough content to make up for the skipped 50 levels, but I actually don't think it'd be that hard. I said not just more dungeons and gear because those two are just a dull cycle of grinding dungeons for RNG. Instead they should go back to older style RPGs where there were big quests and big rewards. Instead of grinding dungeons for a random item, they should implement quest lines with set items. Done well it could look like a 3 part quest where each part is a different kind of game-play from traveling, gathering, and hunting. Then at the end you would be rewarded with a specific item, like a piece of armor, weapon, or special accessory. Each quest line would have its own items and such, offering choice to the players as well. Then Nexon should also include more skins for the weapons and armor, because holy crap were they lazy when they came to this. They really decided to let the players create the content for them, like this is Bethesda letting modders fix their game.

    So, there are quite a few things they could add to this game that could extend its time. Honestly, some more non-artificial time gates would be great. Well that was a little unclear, what I mean is that they should not increase time by limiting players ability to play the game; for example the amount of dungeons per week. Instead, they should just make it longer. Like no one complains when you can't beat a single player game in under an hour, heck, we want those games to last long because it's a longer experience. Of course if the game is bad no one wants that, but why play a bad game. The main quest line in Maplestory 2 didn't have to be such a quick tedious experience where you just run to places and spam space bar to talk to NPCs, and kill something 10% of the time. Nexon really did not have to rush the experience by pushing players towards end-game dungeons, they should have left those as goals for the players to strive towards as they experience the bulk of the game. I can see how this may sound unappealing since most of you are only familiar with the boring tedious grinds of MMORPGs, well I'm sorry to assume but I'm assuming many of you are young or never really played an RPG. Well, anything can be boring and tedious like how anything could be fun with friends. The long grind was rewarding because at the end your time payed off, sadly MMORPGs now a days don't do that right because they decide to give you everything at the beginning so there's no point in grinding. It's like someone decided to take the mindset of a private server and turn it into the main ideology for actual MMORPGs: get everything at the beginning and spend most of the time faffing around as a pretty online avatar (you freaking G>I>R>L>S). That's actually what Maplestory 2 feels like to me, a private server. You level super quickly, you're hand is held, and you don't really work towards anything. It's that instant-gratification thing people keep talking about, like that's the whole problem with Maplestory 2. The bad experience is a result of the design to instantly gratify the player, but even then it sucks at that.

    Maplestory 2 I think tried to do something like that because RESTART or w.e the horrendous patch that changed this game into an alternate reality. Though it was boring, horribly boring just grinding everything out to just level 20. I thought maybe it was because I didn't know Koreans and I was a filthy weaboo in Kpop land. No, after looking through the game some more, via video or blogs, they just did not reward you. The equipment you got was boring, were set at intervals, and there was no real content in the game. The game was and I still believe is incredibly empty. Sure there are a lot of "stuff" but what the heck is the difference between most of the stuff? As I said earlier the "life skills" are just space-bar animations tied to a skill, weapons and armors are actually the same piece of equipment but with a different level and stats. Getting rewarded at intervals becomes boring because that's how conditioning like this works, you know what's coming so there's no surprise, simple but true. Like items are actually a pretty big part of RPGs, even if most of you don't play actual RPGs, items are important to a game like Maplestory 2 that is designed to be a RPG. If you have experience with any games that deal with item hunting, Maplestory, WoW, Borderlands, hell even Destiny. Items were a big incentive for leveling and progressing through the game because those items were unique, cool looking, and they do some cool stuff. Well maybe not Maplestory, but they were freaking cool, like Fair Frozen is just mwah. Here, what item can you actually say that you want for a reason other than it being top meta? None really, I'd say. To add on to that, along with the small pool of weapon is how they structure gear progression so there's no real reason to wear anything besides the best in slot. They streamlined and dumbed down item progression to just +1 + 2 +3 with no variation in how you want to build your stats and characters that most of the items, like the game content, is not worth playing. You could play devil's advocate and be an arse saying that it's choice and you can wear other stuff. However, think of it like this, to those immature enough to actually argue that, when you're a big boy you ain't going to want to drive those Toy's R Us toy cars when you can drive a real car. Like you could, I can kind of see the appeal, but like the lower stat items the novelty wears off fast. Well designed games offer a variety of items and variety of upgrades so the player has real choice on what they want to wear and how to build. Maplestory 2 offers little in actual choice, challenge, and reward.

    I disagree with those urging Nexon to change how they experience the game. There isn't much to experience and it shouldn't just cater to those willing to put up with this dull game design. If Nexon wants Maplestory 2 to actually have more stuff. What was I saying at the beginning? Oh right, they gotta add a lot more stuff to this game if they want it to be playable, changing numbers around on the same thing isn't going to make the experience any better, it's just going to change how long you do it.

    UltralanScarffyClericeru
  • FrostmourneFrostmourne
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    WiLBoY wrote: »
    They have listened to certain things and people still complained. People just love to complain so why bother. Let the ppl who complain quit and the ppl who enjoy the game will play regardless

    Yes. Anyone who has a genuine concern about the state of the game should just quit. Your "us vs them" mentality is so boring. Players like you are the reason communities split and games die.
    WilBoySuck
  • SecretiveSecretive
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    Anami wrote: »
    It certainly doesn't help Nexon has been lying and then trying to cover up their lies too, lel. Honestly my biggest issue with them isn't the RNG, but the fact they're letting blatant exploiters and cheaters get away with it. I wouldn't be annoyed with fair fight being on sky fortress dungeons if it were never promised it wouldn't be on there and then of course the fact they tried to hide the promise was ever made(Bless the souls who screenshotted it.)

    lol they literally did the same thing when they said that onyx would be account bound. dw it was just another "critical mistake" :)
    said this before will say it again, a slippery slope.
    Anamigrizzlebeel3
  • MommaMakoMommaMako
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    the Devs really don't care at all...
    grizzlebeel3
  • WittlePlushyWittlePlushy
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    edited 6:09AM January 16, 2019
    Asukura wrote: »
    Maplestory 2 is a broken experience. It's going to be hard for them to "fix" the game by changing stuff because it's not like there is anything wrong with what there already is, even if it's not that much. People are still going to be rushed towards end game and focus on nothing but the dungeons. Unless there's a drastic change, like a complete overhaul, changing how dungeons work isn't going to do much. So, aside from Maplestory 2 being a shallow game, it is also a shallow gaming experience because the game nudges you through 90%. Yes, 90%, from level 1 to 50 when you're being walked through the game by the main story line. It doesn't matter if you spent hundreds of hours grinding out content from 50 to 60, or mainly 60, the bulk of the content that the game developers had created was skipped over. The game already doesn't have much to offer as a RPG. It's focused on dungeon spamming, not even crawling, just straight up spamming. The little variants of "life skills" are just reskins of the same activity: hitting space bar. Everything is incredibly dumb-ed down and offers no challenge, and this lack of challenge creates no incentive to play this game. The only incentive people really had was the gamble-fest of an RNG grind with enhancement. Then when that dried up the game had nothing else to offer. It skipped over most of what it developed and focused on one single content. The people managing the game even reinforced this one content mindset by solely focusing on dungeons and shallow gear progression. This game is so hand-holdy and automated that it is a blown up mobile game, thus most people have already grinded out the game play experience of Maplestory 2.

    Make dungeon rewards be based off of level not the "type" of dungeon you do so people can run normal dungeons for Chaos onyx and reg onyx and actually interact with lowbies. (This idea only works if they are keeping fairfight in place)

    Give 1 attribute point for each trophy someone gets to change the focus of endgame and allow a way to progress without spamming the same dungeons.

    In 2 ideas i just came up with you can change the end game focus (collect trophies), help new players without sacrificing anything, and solve the dungeon issue.
  • WiLBoYWiLBoY
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    Collect trophies for attribute points. That might be the most casual thing I have heard so far in these forums. Basically that will benefit people who do not place their focus on running the same dungeons 100x times or spending money on assistants to consume products
  • WittlePlushyWittlePlushy
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    edited 1:58PM January 16, 2019
    WiLBoY wrote: »
    Collect trophies for attribute points. That might be the most casual thing I have heard so far in these forums. Basically that will benefit people who do not place their focus on running the same dungeons 100x times or spending money on assistants to consume products

    Marketed as a casual mmo to begin with. It also removes emphasis on running the same dungeon 3000 times for progression and there's no rng or timegating involved in progression for that. Not to menton this would be a much cheaper alternative to overhauling their entire system to remove fair fight or restructure dungeons.
  • ClericeruClericeru
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    edited 2:06PM January 16, 2019
    Marketed as a casual mmo to begin with. It also removes emphasis on running the same dungeon 3000 times for progression and there's no rng or timegating involved in progression for that. Not to menton this would be a much cheaper alternative to overhauling their entire system to remove fair fight or restructure dungeons.

    That was a lie. This isn't a casual mmo.
  • WittlePlushyWittlePlushy
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    Clericeru wrote: »
    Marketed as a casual mmo to begin with. It also removes emphasis on running the same dungeon 3000 times for progression and there's no rng or timegating involved in progression for that. Not to menton this would be a much cheaper alternative to overhauling their entire system to remove fair fight or restructure dungeons.

    That was a lie. This isn't a casual mmo.

    I know that's one of the reasons why they lost so many players despite it being f2p.
  • ClericeruClericeru
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    edited 2:27PM January 16, 2019
    I know that's one of the reasons why they lost so many players despite it being f2p.

    Absolutely. They used this "false image" of what the game really was just to sell people expensive emote and music packs right off the get go. I bought the founders pack and supported the game early on because I bought into that lie. The end of Illusory pyramid comes to mind: Beyond the illusions lies only dust. Like Kakalp, they amount to nothing. That is was this game is, nothing but an illusion.
  • ClericeruClericeru
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    edited 3:46PM January 16, 2019
    WiLBoY wrote: »
    Collect trophies for attribute points. That might be the most casual thing I have heard so far in these forums. Basically that will benefit people who do not place their focus on running the same dungeons 100x times or spending money on assistants to consume products

    And what is wrong with that? People can play the game how they want and progress. It seems like a wining situation for both sides. Since you love grinding dungeons so much, you should be able to keep doing that. People who want alternative ways to progress can do those. This whole game is about writing your own story (supposedly).
  • WiLBoYWiLBoY
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    No where did I say I loved grinding dungeons. However, it doesn't bother me due to the previous MMO I'm from.

  • VisualFxxVisualFxx
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    F's in chat after last blog boys