Check out the patch notes for the v17 Precursor Update here: http://maplestory2.nexon.net/en/news/article/53778/precursor-update-v17

Pay to win? Down Under Daily Wonders

Comments

  • ÄrtÄrt
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 1,380
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    Member
    Naho wrote: »
    Ärt wrote: »
    Kiymori wrote: »
    Ärt wrote: »
    Pay to progress is connected to pay to win. You often can't win without first progressing, it might be small amount this time but next time might increase. Then you will be here saying "who cares that they gave away +15 legendary, you can grind it yourself !" Ofc it's exaggeration but you should be able to get the point.

    Your point is absolutely fair, however my next question is what exactly is it that we win? All the content current you can 'clear' with a epic +15 if you get a +15 legend that is your choice. The only thing after that is going full OCD trying to get maxed gems, an epic pet and perfect rolls on all your gear.

    I only ask because as per usual, the term p2w is being thrown around in this thread a lot, but no context is being given.

    What is is that everyone here does, the way I see it's all about people improving their characters. Real win is defeating the rng, even if it's pointless and all you gain is slightly more dmg you didn't even need to clear something yet you still want it because it's obtainable. With this you gain more chances at defeating that rng, that's why people call it p2w because people who didn't pay didn't get those chances. Next time they might give away 3 fodder legendary weapons that can only be used as fodder, wouldn't see anything wrong if someone called that p2w. It's all semantics anyway.

    P2w to defeat the rng , and then lose to the Rng , but still want to call it p2w. They didn't have the chance to get 3h of farm obviously it's p2w. I'm just gonna assume you're joking.

    Yea you still didn't get it, keep trying maybe one day it will hit you.
  • WiLBoYWiLBoY
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 2,560
    Posts: 373
    Member
    Asukura wrote: »
    WiLBoY wrote: »
    VisualFxx wrote: »
    Look honestly doesn't matter hardly anyone is around to buy it anyway they need to squeeze whatever money they can from people right now or else they'll just have to shut it down completely. They need whales to support them because the f2p playerbase is dead. You have to remember the INSANE amount of bots that are everywhere more than actual players which means that 2.6k peak players on steam is really closer to 1.5kish REAL players if even that honestly the hacking/reversing discords had about 300+ people and figure most of them run multiple accounts at once. They need to implement this if they want to game to continue or until they change some things around but the company won't let them keep sinking money into this game if their not making a profit.

    F2P players don't even matter because they aren't contributing to the game anyways.

    And no the servers wouldn't be full if the game was P2W. You would be the first to quit because you wouldn't be able to handle it

    But you're not contributing anything to the game either. You're just giving Nexon your money while they provide you a sub-par video game, and you're okay with that.

    It's a pyramid scheme lol

    I'm sure people are aware. It's just that money isn't really an issue to them. That's why I said all these players crying for P2W, probably don't understand the extent some players are willing to go under P2W. Some players tend to drop $15000+ every few months to get ahead.
  • NahoNaho
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 1,850
    Posts: 182
    Member
    edited 6:29PM January 17, 2019
    Ärt wrote: »
    Naho wrote: »
    Ärt wrote: »
    Kiymori wrote: »
    Ärt wrote: »
    Pay to progress is connected to pay to win. You often can't win without first progressing, it might be small amount this time but next time might increase. Then you will be here saying "who cares that they gave away +15 legendary, you can grind it yourself !" Ofc it's exaggeration but you should be able to get the point.

    Your point is absolutely fair, however my next question is what exactly is it that we win? All the content current you can 'clear' with a epic +15 if you get a +15 legend that is your choice. The only thing after that is going full OCD trying to get maxed gems, an epic pet and perfect rolls on all your gear.

    I only ask because as per usual, the term p2w is being thrown around in this thread a lot, but no context is being given.

    What is is that everyone here does, the way I see it's all about people improving their characters. Real win is defeating the rng, even if it's pointless and all you gain is slightly more dmg you didn't even need to clear something yet you still want it because it's obtainable. With this you gain more chances at defeating that rng, that's why people call it p2w because people who didn't pay didn't get those chances. Next time they might give away 3 fodder legendary weapons that can only be used as fodder, wouldn't see anything wrong if someone called that p2w. It's all semantics anyway.

    P2w to defeat the rng , and then lose to the Rng , but still want to call it p2w. They didn't have the chance to get 3h of farm obviously it's p2w. I'm just gonna assume you're joking.

    Yea you still didn't get it, keep trying maybe one day it will hit you.

    Stop acting like you're trying to make someone understand something , you're actually the one not being able to get what this meant in the 1st place. Your Bs actually has no point here.
  • ÄrtÄrt
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 1,380
    Posts: 200
    Member
    Naho wrote: »
    Ärt wrote: »
    Naho wrote: »
    Ärt wrote: »
    Kiymori wrote: »
    Ärt wrote: »
    Pay to progress is connected to pay to win. You often can't win without first progressing, it might be small amount this time but next time might increase. Then you will be here saying "who cares that they gave away +15 legendary, you can grind it yourself !" Ofc it's exaggeration but you should be able to get the point.

    Your point is absolutely fair, however my next question is what exactly is it that we win? All the content current you can 'clear' with a epic +15 if you get a +15 legend that is your choice. The only thing after that is going full OCD trying to get maxed gems, an epic pet and perfect rolls on all your gear.

    I only ask because as per usual, the term p2w is being thrown around in this thread a lot, but no context is being given.

    What is is that everyone here does, the way I see it's all about people improving their characters. Real win is defeating the rng, even if it's pointless and all you gain is slightly more dmg you didn't even need to clear something yet you still want it because it's obtainable. With this you gain more chances at defeating that rng, that's why people call it p2w because people who didn't pay didn't get those chances. Next time they might give away 3 fodder legendary weapons that can only be used as fodder, wouldn't see anything wrong if someone called that p2w. It's all semantics anyway.

    P2w to defeat the rng , and then lose to the Rng , but still want to call it p2w. They didn't have the chance to get 3h of farm obviously it's p2w. I'm just gonna assume you're joking.

    Yea you still didn't get it, keep trying maybe one day it will hit you.

    Stop acting like you're trying to make someone understand something , you're actually the one not being able to get what this meant in the 1st place. Your Bs actually has no point here.

    At this point you're just spamming nonsense after being proved wrong, so i'm done talking with you.
    Naho
  • NahoNaho
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 1,850
    Posts: 182
    Member
    edited 6:37PM January 17, 2019
    Ärt wrote: »
    Naho wrote: »
    Ärt wrote: »
    Naho wrote: »
    Ärt wrote: »
    Kiymori wrote: »
    Ärt wrote: »
    Pay to progress is connected to pay to win. You often can't win without first progressing, it might be small amount this time but next time might increase. Then you will be here saying "who cares that they gave away +15 legendary, you can grind it yourself !" Ofc it's exaggeration but you should be able to get the point.

    Your point is absolutely fair, however my next question is what exactly is it that we win? All the content current you can 'clear' with a epic +15 if you get a +15 legend that is your choice. The only thing after that is going full OCD trying to get maxed gems, an epic pet and perfect rolls on all your gear.

    I only ask because as per usual, the term p2w is being thrown around in this thread a lot, but no context is being given.

    What is is that everyone here does, the way I see it's all about people improving their characters. Real win is defeating the rng, even if it's pointless and all you gain is slightly more dmg you didn't even need to clear something yet you still want it because it's obtainable. With this you gain more chances at defeating that rng, that's why people call it p2w because people who didn't pay didn't get those chances. Next time they might give away 3 fodder legendary weapons that can only be used as fodder, wouldn't see anything wrong if someone called that p2w. It's all semantics anyway.

    P2w to defeat the rng , and then lose to the Rng , but still want to call it p2w. They didn't have the chance to get 3h of farm obviously it's p2w. I'm just gonna assume you're joking.

    Yea you still didn't get it, keep trying maybe one day it will hit you.

    Stop acting like you're trying to make someone understand something , you're actually the one not being able to get what this meant in the 1st place. Your Bs actually has no point here.

    At this point you're just spamming nonsense after being proved wrong, so i'm done talking with you.

    And now he decided that i was proved wrong ... jesus christ and after that ppl wonder why nexon is taking bad decision
  • WallSeriesWallSeries
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 1,470
    Posts: 257
    Member
    might as well buy mesos with that money than p2w with merets… like what the ???????????
  • ToranoTorano
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 430
    Posts: 4
    Member
    I don't get the complaint of this thread. Yeah they get 3, 100 gem dust packs. That's really nothing. You get 5 stellar glass once a week for a mil total and that provides 150 of your choosing in each box. If anything that's the equivalent of 2 boxes worth of dust for $25 if you bought it just for that... That's not P2W. That's someone who is just complaining that someone bought a bundle of goodies that included a couple of filler items that in the end doesn't really do anything to assist your progression of the game unless you are beyond lucky... maybe (not really). I burn more dust a week moving my gems around to try to upgrade them once, more than this could ever have an impact with. 300 gem dust that doesn't even allow me to upgrade my gem once. This pack doesn't even allow you to upgrade a tier 2 offense gemstone.
    Soami
  • KiymoriKiymori
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 2,205
    Posts: 335
    Member
    edited 9:44PM January 17, 2019
    Ärt wrote: »
    What is is that everyone here does, the way I see it's all about people improving their characters. Real win is defeating the rng, even if it's pointless and all you gain is slightly more dmg you didn't even need to clear something yet you still want it because it's obtainable. With this you gain more chances at defeating that rng, that's why people call it p2w because people who didn't pay didn't get those chances. Next time they might give away 3 fodder legendary weapons that can only be used as fodder, wouldn't see anything wrong if someone called that p2w. It's all semantics anyway.

    I think the direction I am going with this is, why is it that such a problem in the context of this game? What aspects of 'p2w' introduced to the game in your opinion would be destructive enough to cause problems in the community? If possible could you give some examples that are not emotional appeals, since I am sure you and I can both agree 'feelings' aren't exactly a good way to judge if something is good or bad for game.

    Nothing personal, but I am only trying to understand different points of view on the subject. For me, I don't see any problem with p2w in games as long as it doesn't directly affect PvP, or items are introduced for PvE/PvP that can ONLY be attained unless you cash shop. That being said, you can probably already see MS2 doesn't exactly fall into that category and they would have to introduce something really specific for me to really care about it.

  • Sammich88Sammich88
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 1,345
    Posts: 170
    Member
    WiLBoY wrote: »
    VisualFxx wrote: »
    Look honestly doesn't matter hardly anyone is around to buy it anyway they need to squeeze whatever money they can from people right now or else they'll just have to shut it down completely. They need whales to support them because the f2p playerbase is dead. You have to remember the INSANE amount of bots that are everywhere more than actual players which means that 2.6k peak players on steam is really closer to 1.5kish REAL players if even that honestly the hacking/reversing discords had about 300+ people and figure most of them run multiple accounts at once. They need to implement this if they want to game to continue or until they change some things around but the company won't let them keep sinking money into this game if their not making a profit.

    F2P players don't even matter because they aren't contributing to the game anyways.

    And no the servers wouldn't be full if the game was P2W. You would be the first to quit because you wouldn't be able to handle it
    That is a dangerous way of thinking if you're trying to run a game. Population is one of the bigger reasons one person would choose to play one game(or server) over another. If you didn't care about the population as a whole and only care about the paying population, your game will bite the dust.
  • OlujiwanOlujiwan
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 7,450
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    Forum Moderator
    Please try to keep the discussions civil, or I will be locking the thread.
    NXACuddles wrote: »
    - Maplers are helpful and courteous. They always provide constructive feedback and respectfully disagree with their fellow Maplers.

  • SimonaSimona
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 1,080
    Posts: 50
    Member
    Good news from the dev blog:
    Introducing Meso Market

    They listened to p2w apologists and you'll be able to buy gold with merets, welcome to p2w.

    http://maplestory2.nexon.net/en/news/article/42595/producer-blog-new-feedback-initiative-and-communication-moving-forward
    Thendriks
  • VisualFxxVisualFxx
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    Member
    F's in chat after last blog boys
  • XnknownXnknown
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    Ahhh. Time to come back to maple and prepare for meret to mesos update!
  • NahoNaho
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 1,850
    Posts: 182
    Member
    Simona wrote: »
    Good news from the dev blog:
    Introducing Meso Market

    They listened to p2w apologists and you'll be able to buy gold with merets, welcome to p2w.

    http://maplestory2.nexon.net/en/news/article/42595/producer-blog-new-feedback-initiative-and-communication-moving-forward

    Thx god they did, now they need to add back some of the item they removed so you guys can get rid of the rng you've been complaining about for months
  • SimonaSimona
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    Posts: 50
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    Naho wrote: »
    Thx god they did, now they need to add back some of the item they removed so you guys can get rid of the rng you've been complaining about for months

    Already got rid of it by uninstalling, perhaps p2w apologists like kiymori will finally be satisfied.

    Hope you'll enjoy playing a barren game.

  • NahoNaho
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    Simona wrote: »
    Naho wrote: »
    Thx god they did, now they need to add back some of the item they removed so you guys can get rid of the rng you've been complaining about for months

    Already got rid of it by uninstalling, perhaps p2w apologists like kiymori will finally be satisfied.

    Hope you'll enjoy playing a barren game.

    Hope you will find something entertaining enough for you ~
  • KiymoriKiymori
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 2,205
    Posts: 335
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    edited 9:46AM January 18, 2019
    Simona wrote: »

    Already got rid of it by uninstalling, perhaps p2w apologists like kiymori will finally be satisfied.

    Hope you'll enjoy playing a barren game.

    You're free to call me what you want, I told you and many others it was more than likely they would introduce a meret market, and that I already do enjoy this game despite its flaws with progression. Having the meret conversion would only add to my current enjoyment but it isn't making or breaking my gameplay but more so how I choose to play. As for those who are overly sensitive on the subject or dislike 'p2w', I will tell them the same thing I have being saying over and over.


    MS2 may introduce some 'p2w' elements, but what I like about this game is that none of it matters to me, in the grand scheme of things. A player beside me can have max legendary with the best stats, and I can have legendary with sub par stats but we still are 'end game' and we can both currently attain it, with or without having to spend a dime. If it is handled correctly, I will have no problems with a meso market as again, it isn't really changing anything about the game at it's core other than perhaps making it easier to progress.

    Go play a different game that caters to your needs as a gamer and don't stick with something you don't like or enjoy. Keep in mind, it is merely being reviewed, but given the state the game is in, I can see this being a cash grab attempt to also try and combat bots, and I don't blame them one bit.


    Again, I can fully understand if it was a case where the cashshop was destroying the games balance especially in PvP(Believe me I played my fair share of MMOs that did this PWI,Archage to name 2).But if it's merely helping players progress in a way that is already attainable or combat terrible RnG, that so be it. At this point, the only reason I can see people quitting is because of the 'princple of the matter'. Which I genuinely don't understand, but I can respect it.
  • SimonaSimona
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    edited 10:05AM January 18, 2019
    You really didn't need to write that wall of text only because I said you are a p2w apologist, a thing that you never even tried to hide.

    All in all, the only thing that annoyed me is that they promised to keep the game p2w-free and they failed it, but that's on me because knowing the woeful fame of nexon, I decided to give it a shot anyway and lost my time.

    And fyi, it's not a "principle of the matter", aside the reason above, I dislike p2w people because by paying (for legalized cheating) they feel entitled to the instant gratification they accuse "whiners" of wanting.

    edit:
    not going to read another wall of text.
  • KiymoriKiymori
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 2,205
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    edited 11:10AM January 18, 2019
    Simona wrote: »
    You really didn't need to write that wall of text only because I said you are a p2w apologist, a thing that you never even tried to hide.

    All in all, the only thing that annoyed me is that they promised to keep the game p2w-free and they failed it, but that's on me because knowing the woeful fame of nexon, I decided to give it a shot anyway and lost my time.

    And fyi, it's not a "principle of the matter", aside the reason above, I dislike p2w people because by paying (for legalized cheating) they feel entitled to the instant gratification they accuse "whiners" of wanting.

    edit:
    not going to read another wall of text.

    Only 2 parts of my posts are directed at you(the beginning and saying best of luck), so either way my message was received by you. The rest was a general post in regards to the 'p2w' being discussed in the thread.


    But anyway sorry lost your time you might do better with a game like GW2.
  • NahoNaho
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 1,850
    Posts: 182
    Member
    Simona wrote: »
    You really didn't need to write that wall of text only because I said you are a p2w apologist, a thing that you never even tried to hide.

    All in all, the only thing that annoyed me is that they promised to keep the game p2w-free and they failed it, but that's on me because knowing the woeful fame of nexon, I decided to give it a shot anyway and lost my time.

    And fyi, it's not a "principle of the matter", aside the reason above, I dislike p2w people because by paying (for legalized cheating) they feel entitled to the instant gratification they accuse "whiners" of wanting.

    edit:
    not going to read another wall of text.

    And they are keeping it p2w-free. Just because you all wanted to use your own definition of p2w doesn't mean it is.
    Sylqt