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MS2 biggest flaw: a selfish community

supermikysupermiky
MapleStory 2 Rep: 1,945
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Maple Guide
edited 9:27AM January 10, 2019 in General Chat
Full title: MS2's biggest flaw: a selfish community that's been nearly forced on the playerbase.
This was posted on Reddit and it's not mine, but it's a flaw to acknowledge.
This is going to be a rant post and just to get all of it out of the way -

I am getting DD belts. I have a capped epic pet, I have pretty okay gems, and I've made a lot of meso in this game through pure luck. I've never cheated or exploited but I have sold runs. I'm what you would describe as someone who is on the better side of the massive RNG in the game and yet I'm still struggling against it all every week.


If I had to pin down one major issue that's killing the game at the moment, it's the fact that you are stuck in a neverending loop of important thing you need to do no matter how strong or progressed your character is. This loop itself creates a lot of negative feelings about RNG, falling behind, etc. for those who are unlucky, but the bigger issue is that experienced players are left with no time to actually go back and help newer ones, or old ones that are struggling with getting a group for something. New players are absolutely fucked when it comes to starting out, not only because of the massive requirements to reach and do chaos raids but because there's nobody to do them with and nobody who wants to help.


Run selling is practically forced on those who are able to do it because there is no other assured way of making money, even "good" hourly methods like the old world boss farming are trash when held up against the insane weekly meso costs that 99% of the playerbase can't even hope to keep up with. Sellers would feel less pressured to sell runs if there was any other way to make mesos.


The way the game is set up at the moment requires people to be selfish and only care about their own progression, because none of the new content obsoletes the old content (which might be an issue that some people take in MMOs, but I don't - especially after playing this one). Each new update and new content only pours more responsibilities into our already overflowing bowl of daily chores and weeklies because each of them has a unique, and useful reward that you'd be stupid not to go for.

Even ignoring the rep requirements from Sky Fortress for something like Infernog, you'd still feel immense pressure to do sky fortress every day because it's the only source of legendary rerollers. Someone with a +15 legendary weapon will still have to go back and do hard mode dungeons for stars, because they need lapentiers for chaos raids. We still have to do lifeskills every day to craft limited consumables to help with those raids, too.


I used to spend all day pugging CDev, or CMoc as a barrel priest as soon as my dungeons were done, I was good at that job and I was more than happy to help people get their first clears. I have too much I feel like I need to get done now, to the point that I will do a few runs for my guildies each week but I end up entirely burnt out and unable to keep up with my own character let alone others'.

There is zero incentive to help others in this game and there absolutely should be, yet there doesn't have to be, the issue lies within the fact that it's a neverending meso + time sink. I feel like I can't even afford to give up a free B4 to friends or guild members that might need it because the moment I analyze that key I immediately know something I need that 18 million meso for (usually onyx lol)

EDIT - Oh and I completely forgot one other major issue - you need to bring your best when it comes to helping groups that are full of mostly inexperienced people who haven't cleared yet, meaning lapentiers (limited resource) tonics and guild buffs (big meso cost). One night of helping my guild do cpap cost me around 3mil meso total.


My guild on MS2 has people that run far beyond their own caps, some go as far as to pet farm for eachother and some run dungeons beyond their weekly caps. It's extremely admirable and something I can't hope to do with how much it feels like this game already vaccuums up my time. The guild and the friends I've made are the only real things keeping me in the game.


I still enjoy playing the game, when I'm actually playing it. Dark Descent is a lot of fun and so are chaos raids, but I feel less inclined to help each week and more and more guilty as I watch people and friends around me falling behind. It feels both terrible and exhausting to see so many people being so miserable and upset when they're struggling with one of the billions of flaws in the game and I can't blame them.


If you can find the time to, and do genuinely want to see the game stay alive to see any potential updates that could the game, please at least try to wait up for the people who want to catch up and give them a hand. Be helpful and don't be toxic to eachother in a community that's already dying, with my personal exception being scammers and cheaters who are only serving to kill the game even faster.


Naho
  1. Do you think the user is right?21 votes
    1. Yes, he's unfortunately right.
       86% (18 votes)
    2. No, that's not true!
       14% (3 votes)

Comments

  • MousekinMousekin
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    A shoutout to the person who wrote that post would be nice, especially because if their post is still active it could be upvoted and therefore better seen.

    As somebody who was "falling behind" I can absolutely relate with the post, it sucks, your friends and guildmates are so far ahead that asking them for their time and runs makes you feel bad. It creates this awful divide between the experienced +13-+15 players and the ones who have yet to even touch Balrog. I ended up telling my guildmates that it hurt that they couldn't spend time with the inexperienced players, because they were capped and so caught up with running chaos raids that there was no point in spending the time helping them level their gear.

    This divide in the playerbase shouldn't exist. It should be harmonious wherein higher level players don't feel pressured to keep upgrading, where they can relax for a week and help the lower levelled players get through dungeons. I'd be more than happy to queue up for lower-levelled dungeons to help newbies out... I just wish the newbies weren't padded out so highly with bots (which is a topic for another time, and still kind of a problem).

    I'll always offer my help to newbies, because I understand what it's like to be in a position where you can't progress. I made a priest and a knight because I want to help the players around me get better. That wall shouldn't exist in the first place for people (or maybe just me) to feel this way.

    It hurts the playerbase so hard, and I want Nexon to do something about it before it starts to genuinely kill the game.
    LießTopPriestPixelPantsu
  • NahoNaho
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    I've been saying that the moment ppl started complaining about their progression, but who cares *shrugs*
    XXPriestXX44
  • supermikysupermiky
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    Maple Guide
    Mousekin wrote: »
    A shoutout to the person who wrote that post would be nice, especially because if their post is still active it could be upvoted and therefore better seen.

    As somebody who was "falling behind" I can absolutely relate with the post, it sucks, your friends and guildmates are so far ahead that asking them for their time and runs makes you feel bad. It creates this awful divide between the experienced +13-+15 players and the ones who have yet to even touch Balrog. I ended up telling my guildmates that it hurt that they couldn't spend time with the inexperienced players, because they were capped and so caught up with running chaos raids that there was no point in spending the time helping them level their gear.

    This divide in the playerbase shouldn't exist. It should be harmonious wherein higher level players don't feel pressured to keep upgrading, where they can relax for a week and help the lower levelled players get through dungeons. I'd be more than happy to queue up for lower-levelled dungeons to help newbies out... I just wish the newbies weren't padded out so highly with bots (which is a topic for another time, and still kind of a problem).

    I'll always offer my help to newbies, because I understand what it's like to be in a position where you can't progress. I made a priest and a knight because I want to help the players around me get better. That wall shouldn't exist in the first place for people (or maybe just me) to feel this way.

    It hurts the playerbase so hard, and I want Nexon to do something about it before it starts to genuinely kill the game.

    The original post can be found here. https://www.reddit.com/r/MapleStory2/comments/aekhj4/ms2s_biggest_flaw_a_selfish_community_thats_been/?sort=top
    Mousekin
  • KiymoriKiymori
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    Divides will always exist, all you are witnessing is the true character of the people you play with.
  • MousekinMousekin
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    Kiymori wrote: »
    Divides will always exist, all you are witnessing is the true character of the people you play with.

    Thankfully the guild is a little closer now that me and a few others raised the concern, the higher levelled ones are helping those who need it, and people are generally happy to volunteer for Balrog/lower dungeon runs.
    While the divide was there though, it was genuinely harmful. I don't want anyone to experience that feeling.
  • CalindelCalindel
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    edited 5:18PM January 10, 2019
    Just do what the majority of us have, quit playing, nothing is going to change when you continue to play and hand these people money.

    I wasted nearly 700 hours on this game for almost nothing, I have a luster lost trophy screen of roughly 150 gemstone upgrade attempts with 8 success, in the entire 700 hours I id'd a total of ONE b4 key, I never once managed to roll boss damage on any legendary armor, in over 175 FDs I never once recieved a double piercing weapon for my class, you get the point.

    MS2 in its current state is literally an experimental beta where your progress is wiped at the end of the every week. I want this game to change, thats why I still occasionally check the forums but in the 4 or 5 weeks since ive quit I dont see anything different, just more exploits and a toxic community feeding on itself. New players are met with a party finder of "+15 or 6K+ attack only" and are forced to buy runs where a quarter of them are straight up scammed out of their money.

    Gee, I wonder why the steam charts are 100% red, -60%, -40%, -25%, dont tell me its the usual new game losing people initually, that should level out by now, MS2 is in an absolute freefall.
  • WiLBoYWiLBoY
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    It's a man eat man world out there, only the strong survive
  • RisingD4rKRisingD4rK
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    If nexon give out free legendary weapon ... i think peoples will go back and play
  • EinoEino
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    RisingD4rK wrote: »
    If nexon give out free legendary weapon ... i think peoples will go back and play

    Nexon Korea was giving away free +13 Legendaries and 3-socket accessories in December - and KMS2 still didn't hit the Top 100 of PC Bang games.
  • FeifeiDuFeifeiDu
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    RisingD4rK wrote: »
    If nexon give out free legendary weapon ... i think peoples will go back and play

    I have +12 legendary and pretty much perfect roll on everything with 3 socket and I’m so bored of this game I’m quitting...
  • ToranoTorano
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    Eino wrote: »
    RisingD4rK wrote: »
    If nexon give out free legendary weapon ... i think peoples will go back and play

    Nexon Korea was giving away free +13 Legendaries and 3-socket accessories in December - and KMS2 still didn't hit the Top 100 of PC Bang games.

    That's cause they are only putting band aids on the issues at hand. A free legendary isn't going to fix anything nor 3 socket accessories. The game needs an overhaul. I.E. Remove the dungeon cap for normal dungeons, that way people can run new players through the content, help them out and not be punished with the fact that they are missing out on the little onyx and chaos onyx they so desperately need. Increase the RNG rates for better stuff, we are stuck with a P2W system when it comes to rates with no way of progressing past unless you have ungodly good luck, otherwise you hit a time wall that is massively dragged out and a massive burnout chore. Remove/reduce fair fight, with how chorey the game is NO ONE wants to spend 15+ mins in a dungeon running with freshly geared players especially since you will most likely be running 60+ dungeons a week. Depending on if you use alts to assist in accelerating your main. Reduce costs of items or increase ways to gain messos. Dryad candies are 1k each, it costs more to catch a pet than you receive from selling them! Even if you catch a bunch of blues you have to basically catch 1/20 in order to break even and epics are near impossible to catch. I've spent 2 weeks at least 12 hours a day and over 14k snares now and not 1 epic captured. I've spent more trying to catch one than it costs to buy one from the black market.

    If they want to keep this F2P they need to increase rates, fix progression, and not punish end game players for assisting new players or make the game P2W already. Many of the top players have left and we are at the point of no redemption anymore. This game will be completely dead and they can only blame themselves for it's demise.
    Mousekin
  • WittlePlushyWittlePlushy
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    RisingD4rK wrote: »
    If nexon give out free legendary weapon ... i think peoples will go back and play

    They made normal mode raids because people said that Moc and Cdev were too hard. They gave all gear for free cause people complained about how long it took to gear up. They added toadstool kits to help gearing up for newer players. They removed p2w from our version awhile back because people expressed large concern. They added fortress rumble which is an easy way to reroll accesories and get legendaries for EVERYONE if you learn the mechanics. They increased the amount of runs you can do due to popular demand. They added the soul binder hairstyle because people complained about it not being purchasable.

    Long story short they've been doing what the community wants for awhile (fair fight is the thing they haven't rolled over about). I'm pretty sure people are going to be unhappy regardless of what they change.
    Naho
  • SimonaSimona
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    Long story short they've been doing what the community wants for awhile

    Community asked to keep the 2x drop rate, they gave 2x chore rate (60 dungeons)
    They swapped FD spam to Balrog spam -> No one asked that
    They halved dungeon drops -> No one asked that
    They halved tradeable onyx -> No one asked that
    They swapped weapon duplicates problem (toads) with onyx scarcity problem -> No one asked that
    They messed 3 blogs with "account bound onyx" (critical error)
    They borked the band-aid free gift box (miscommunication)
    They added fairfight to fortress rumble, a solo dungeon, when community asked to remove it from dungeons. If that wasn't enough, they said fairfight wouldn't have been enabled in rumble, yet it is.

    People are going to be unhappy if they don't deliver.
    IllIIlDevolaMiehPixelPantsu
  • DanDKDanDK
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    RisingD4rK wrote: »
    If nexon give out free legendary weapon ... i think peoples will go back and play
    Long story short they've been doing what the community wants for awhile (fair fight is the thing they haven't rolled over about). I'm pretty sure people are going to be unhappy regardless of what they change.

    Everyone is missing the main problem. Bad game design.

    You don't fix bad game design by handing out more and more freebies. That only ruins the progression even more because people who actually spent time on it gets all their work reduced to nothing. Their 'solutions' giving out free epics for doing absolutely nothing except finish the 'tutorial' (level 50/60) was a huge joke and giving legendaries is so ridiculous a notion I can't even think anyone would take that seriously.

    They've listened to absolutely nothing from the community since the start. The entire game was a mess since CBT with nothing to do except dungeons and more dungeons and the quality of these dungeons are horrible to boost. All the while, the only thing they have done is more and more dungeons and care nothing about any of the social aspects of what's supposed to be a social game. All CBT feedback was ignored and they've largely only removed P2W and continue to copy paste in braindead content that are chores without effort and are neither rewarding or entertaining.
    Simona
  • WiLBoYWiLBoY
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    Free legendaries are useless if you don't do dmg anyways. Next thing you know you will complain about mat prices or you can't enhance due to inability to clear Cpap. It's a never ending cycle because you cannot accomplish things yourself without a handicap
  • BulbasaurBulbasaur
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    This is the consequence of having an equipment based progression system rather than a level based progression system like any other decent MMO.
  • NahoNaho
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    And now they want Nexon to remake the entire game . I'm out
  • WittlePlushyWittlePlushy
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    edited 9:31AM January 11, 2019
    Simona wrote: »
    Long story short they've been doing what the community wants for awhile

    Community asked to keep the 2x drop rate, they gave 2x chore rate (60 dungeons)
    They swapped FD spam to Balrog spam -> No one asked that
    They halved dungeon drops -> No one asked that
    They halved tradeable onyx -> No one asked that
    They swapped weapon duplicates problem (toads) with onyx scarcity problem -> No one asked that
    They messed 3 blogs with "account bound onyx" (critical error)
    They borked the band-aid free gift box (miscommunication)
    They added fairfight to fortress rumble, a solo dungeon, when community asked to remove it from dungeons. If that wasn't enough, they said fairfight wouldn't have been enabled in rumble, yet it is.

    People are going to be unhappy if they don't deliver.

    You aren't required to do balrog you can do other dungeons such as tris and enhance using toadkits and the beautiful thing about hard dungeons is that you don't need to do them at all to progress. You can simply make meso a different way then buy the mats dropped from hard dungeons.

    Community literally asked to do more dungeons they didnt ask for double rate until AFTER they saw how cancerous 60 dungeons is.

    The dungeon drops were converted to more onyx if you bothered testing or reading their posts.

    People are only having an issue with onyx because of legendary weapon enhancement prices. This problem didnt exist before cpap was added, onyx was hovering around 100 meso prior to this and 2.9k for chaos onyx.

    Yes the blog one I'll give you I'm still pissed about that.

    They gave the band-aid free gift boxes because once again the community was complaining and it would be cheaper to do that than redo their entire game.

    The whole point of fortress rumble is to provide players with a chance to gear on their own (and not have to suffer through pugs). Just giving them the gear for free because they have an op pet or bought meso and can buy the best in slot purple accessories defeats the purpose of the solo content. So does allowing "elite players" to cheese rerollers (the 4:30 s+ rank requirement) without putting in any effort simply because the community will naturally get stronger as time passes. The reason I'm ok with having fair fight on rumble and not hard dungeons is because you literally get nothing from hard dungeons just mats which can be bought with meso from other activites. The reward for Rumble is one of the most sought after ones and as such it shouldn't be easy to acquire (epic accessory rerollers). Removing fair fight from rumble would result in epic rerollers losing any value and it would be even more of a struggle for new players depending on how they balance it (with player's natural progression in mind). The reward that rumble gives is enough to warrant fair fight so that people don't slam their faces on the keyboards and clear making epic rerollers in a sense valueless.

    People will search for any problem they can find then use it as a reason to be angry. This happens on literally any game you can or will play.
  • PilikenPiliken
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    All they have to do is one of two things:

    1.Raise the % chance to succeed on gem upgrades and accessory socket unlocks, increase the chance to catch an epic pet and change the algorithm on bonus attribute rolls

    OR

    2. Remove daily and weekly caps, but keep all RNG systems the same.

    By doing one of those two you solve the RNG progression + time gating issue that people have been complaining about since they increased the level cap to 60. Yes, fair fight changes would be nice, but at this point that's never going to happen. At least the two changes i mentioned don't require complete system overhauls. What they do require is that the devs realize their model doesn't work as well in the West as it does in the East, which will probably also never happen. People are selfish because they don't have time to progress their own characters while playing with people that are behind them on the progression curve. You can either sacrifice your progress to play with friends or stay ahead of the curve to leave your friends behind.
  • IllIIlIllIIl
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    Bulbasaur wrote: »
    This is the consequence of having an equipment based progression system

    No it's not, the Borderlands games have an "equipment based progression system" and they don't have any of these problems. The issue is that they fail at both gear design and how to approach difficulty. Gear shouldn't just boil down to "the same thing but better" and they pander way to hard to the "hardcore" audience when designing new content which leads to horrendous bandage fixes like "normal raids".

    The game doesn't need "free handouts from Nexon", it needs progression through content which is actually designed for the broader audience.
    Mieh