Check out the patch notes for the v18 Kritias Expansion here: http://forums.maplestory2.nexon.net/discussion/45974

The real reason people are burning out(is not RNG)

TalnovaTalnova
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edited 12:18PM December 6, 2018 in Suggestions and Feedback
Edit: I changed the title to make it a bit clear this isn’t about daily missions
I will break this up to make it easier to read for people who just want the basics, just read the intro.

Intro
I have talked about this in other threads, but I am starting to get stressed out, everyone I know who has loved and adored MS2 is quitting. So even if I feel like I am getting annoying, I am gonna keep trying to discuss this point because I love MS2 and don't want it to go the way of games like Wildstar. The team is trying to fix things by making common complaints easier with things like Toad Stones, but I really don't think this will improve the issue at all. I think the issues with RNG are a symptom, not the cause.

I think the real cause of burnout is that daily limits makes the first 2-3 hours of MS2 feel like a chore. People feel like they must log on every day, and they must spend 2-3 hours doing dailies. And that those dailies we spend most of our time doing are not exciting, fun or rewarding. This means that most people feel bored when they log on, but they can't take a break because they have to log on, otherwise they will fall behind. Eventually they become burnt out from continuously logging on to do things they aren’t even enjoying anymore, and eventually they just quit the game.

To fix MS2 they need to reduce the amount of chores we have to do when we log in and start playing the game, and to try to make those chores more fun and exciting. At most we should have an hour of "work" before we start choosing what we want to do, and personally I think it should even be less than that.

What are the dailies?
- 10-15 dungeons a day for at least 3 days a week.
- Gathering life skills
- World quests and daily missions

Ideas on how to achieve this

This is the area I would love opinions on. These are just my ideas, but I am sure there are better ways to do this.

1. Make a lot of the current daily content take less time, or not be a daily.
- For dungeons: Remove the dungeon limit and add daily and weekly first/best dungeon reward. Remove the bot-able drops, like bind on equip gear and pets, from the loot table and put them in the daily/weekly reward chest along with a lot of upgrade materials (roughly equivalent to 10 dungeons worth). Reduce the amount of upgrade materials from dismantling dungeon drops, and make those upgrade materials untradeable to balance the extra resources in the daily/weekly chest. The main incentives for dungeon runs should be the gear itself and rare drops (eg. cosmetics) with little if any meso making potential after the first run of the day.
The goal of this is to make people feel like they only "need" to do 1 dungeon a day, but still allow other people to run as many as they want. It is to take the minimum dungeons per week pressure off people, so they can do less things that feel like a chore and just enjoy the game more. They will still have incentive to log in daily (daily cache), but if they miss it, the majority of the reward would be in the weekly chest.
Also the with the dungeons off the limit, the RNG on gear stats would feel less painful because people with bad luck could run as many dungeons as they want. Even better would be adding catch-up methods to the weekly chest to help people with bad luck catch up by having things like a socket scroll (1 required for 1 socket, 2 for 2 sockets, 3 for 3 sockets).
I don't think the ultra-hardcore, 100 dungeon a day personality types would gain too much, they would probably end up with perfect max stat gear quicker than other people, but as long as the rewards like onyx crystals are reduced (moved from drops into the daily chest) I don't think they would be significantly ahead of the curve.
- For life skills: Let gathering build up over time so we can do gathering quickly if we do it every day or every 3-4 days at the current speed. This would make logging in daily have an incentive but not be required.
- World quests and daily missions are OK as they are.

2. Make the dailies more fun and rewarding.
- For dungeons: currently dungeons do not feel rewarding.
Gear drops do not feel rewarding unless they get perfect or near perfect stats. Make stats transferable between identical items so that all gear upgrades are rewarding not just perfect stat gear (this is actually the change which would have the biggest effect on the "fun" of the game right now in my opinion) Currently you are only happy when you get correct/perfect stat gear, because it so much work to upgrade/add slots. It means that dungeons do not feel rewarding because the drops you get are almost never going to be an upgrade. And once you get perfect stat gear, now you are just grinding crafting mats to upgrade/slot your existing gear. The current system basically has removed any feeling of joy that comes from getting better gear at the end of a dungeon because you don't. Allowing us to trade stats between gear would fix that in an instant.
It is pretty rare for you to get to the end of the dungeon and feel any excitement for your drops. The exception probably being if you get wings. Adding the daily chest would make the first dungeon more fun. But it would also help to add more rewarding (soulbound) drops to the dungeon loot table to incentivize multiple runs and make them feel fun, eg. the equivalent of Diablo 3 primal gear. ie. guaranteed max stat gear. or eg.2 Cosmetic drops. When you get a special drop in the dungeon play a sound and make it stand out with a gold border to increase the excitement/feeling of reward. Special drops should not feel necessary to progress, just like an exciting reward when you get one. You should probable get one every 10-20 runs on average (5-10% chance) for them to have any effect, since if the drop rate is too low, it will feel like they aren't even there, however there could be ultra rare drops (0.01 - 0.1) that give people a goal to hunt and make them want to keep doing dungeons, like epic mounts (fox mount kthx) or rewards otherwise only obtainable from events (leek head, rolling mount etc.))
- For life skills: add rare crafting material drops to gathering, play a sound and make it stand out somehow, so we have something exciting to hope for. Have those crafting materials be used to craft something REALLLLY cool.

3. add better rewards to other parts of the game so that dungeons are not the only thing people feel compelled to do.

Other suggestions to improve the game

1. Lower the 3rd slot chance for an accessory significantly and remove the need to use an equivalent slot accessory to upgrade. There is a degree of pain that comes from having to make one 2 slot accessory, then make a second 2 slot accessory and losing all your progress. It is pretty painful because you are back at 0, despite a lot of hard work. Overall, I think they should keep the amount of effort required to upgrade your accessory about the same, but the reduce the pain of failure significantly.

To put this in perspective: say you buy a lotto ticket to win a million dollars for $2, you know you probably won't win but when you lose you don't feel that much pain because you only lost $2. Now imagine a lotto ticket where you could still win the same amount, your odds are increased to around 30% but the ticket cost is now $300k. Yes your odds of winning are pretty good, but the pain if you don't win is also increased exponentially. You have a chance to win $1mil, but if you lose you lose $300k and are set back significantly in your life, also your happiness when your win is actually reduced compared to if you bought a $2 ticket and won because of the amount of stress that was involved in the draw.

This issue /is/ fixed by the toad stones (because they will remove the pain of losing a 2 slot accessory), but I don't think it needs to be. I think the problem is not the difficulty, but the amount of pain suffered when an item fails to upgrade. I don't think the really hard stuff like 3 slot accessories is necessary to progress. I feel like if your character is not in perfect gear but you can complete all the content easily, then it is ok. If you consider almost any other mmo, it is rare for your character to be "perfect". I do think it falls under the same category of not being able to upgrade (add slots) until you get perfect stats, therefore anything other than perfect stats is not rewarding, so in that sense, the same "let us trade stats between gear" solution would fix that issue as well as other gear related issues.

2. Make it more clear that pet xp is transferable between pets, so that people don't feel like they need an epic pet before they can start upgrading. I think this would help a lot of people who are currently miserable about not getting an epic pet, without even needing to change anything about the game.

Quality of life suggestions :P

1. Timer icon on items that will expire, white click = >1 week, yellow clock = 1day - 1 week, red clock = <1 day.
2. Timestamps in chat
3. Sell junk option, to sell stuff like fishing drops are do nothing.
4. Allow an option to remove "error" voice lines, like when my character is farming and I keep hearing her go "yes!" "uggghh no". I like my characters voice, but the error lines are irritating and repetitive.
5. In trap master, when the "pattern" is not really a pattern but an image instead, flash the tiles red just before they disappear.
6. Make cosmetic pets possible to equip like other cosmetic items, even if the pet can no longer attack, let it look like a cosmetic pet but have combat stats. Or give us a cash shop item that lets us turn a cosmetic pet into a badge that changes the appearance of currently equipped pet.
7. Make it possible to equip mounts as a cosmetic, to keep the speed of a fast mount with the look of a slow mount (or any mount we want).Or give us a cash shop item that lets us turn a mount into a badge that changes the appearance of currently equipped mount.
8. Open chest loot in a window instead of just adding it to your bags, add sounds and pretty colours to let us know when we got lucky.
9. Make cosmetic pets account tradeable
10. Make emotes account wide (trust me when I say I will spend more on cash shop emotes if they are account wide than if they are not)
11. Add some kind of social event that forces people into the same room, so we can hang out and meet people. For example a gambling merchant who's item drops change every 10 minutes, so we all camp around the gambling merchant and chat while we wait for drops we want. Or pretty much any other event that makes us want to chill out in an area while we wait for something to happen, and we can chat while we wait. Queenstown music does do this, but it is not everyone's cup of tea. And sometimes no-one is playing music. Another example would be an anime room where we could sit, chat and watch anime in game (along with a couple of ads).

Summary
I love Maplestory 2, I really want it to thrive, I am sad seeing so many people leave which is why I am making posts like this. I think this is an amazing game, and has so much potential, but I really think the dailies are preventing people from enjoying the rest of the game. It is easy to say don't do them, but obviously people feel like they have to, especially in regards to dungeon progression. This is why people are becoming burnt out, there are too many things that take too much time that don't feel fun and rewarding, but that you feel like you have to do every single day.

I would love constructive input, suggestions, if you do agree, don't agree. Please don't hate on me just for trying to help make the game better though, I understand these are just my opinions and might be wrong.
How do you think they can make the game more fun?
Have you played games with more grind than this that didn't make you feel burnt out, what do you think makes this game different?
Are you still doing all the dailies? Do you enjoy them?
DanRPSyatogamii

Comments

  • TalnovaTalnova
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    edited 8:56PM December 4, 2018
    To clarify, I make these suggestions not to make the game easier at all, but actually to keep the challenge about where it is now.

    The goal is to increase the amount of fun people have playing the game, and to prevent them from feeling like they have no choice but to run a large quantity of dungeons every single day, while still allowing more hard core people to be rewarded for running as many as they want.

    The dungeon cap is designed to slow progression. So, remove a lot of the items that allow progression and front load then into the daily chest, then allow people to keep running for rewards that are sideways progression like slightly bettet stats or cosmetic rewards. Then you don’t need the cap to slow progression anymore and can remove it completely. 90% of people would only do 1-2 dungeons a day, while the hardcore would do more. The hardcore are already making alts to farm quicker anyway, this wouldn’t make them any faster.
  • PeekiPeeki
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    Yep, lets put a dungeon reset option to make them do double the dungeons per week :D
    Talnova
  • DanRPSDanRPS
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    4. Allow an option to remove "error" voice lines, like when my character is farming and I keep hearing her go "yes!" "uggghh no". I like my characters voice, but the error lines are irritating and repetitive.
    This.
    And my Runeblade always sounds like he's annoyed, even when he manages to successfully gather resources.

    I don't know what I would add to this, except that I'm not really into that 11th QOL, since I'm an introvert even in-game.
    Talnova
  • BabouBabou
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    DanRPS wrote: »
    4. Allow an option to remove "error" voice lines, like when my character is farming and I keep hearing her go "yes!" "uggghh no". I like my characters voice, but the error lines are irritating and repetitive.
    This.
    And my Runeblade always sounds like he's annoyed, even when he manages to successfully gather resources.

    I don't know what I would add to this, except that I'm not really into that 11th QOL, since I'm an introvert even in-game.

    It's the main reason i turned character volume to zero. I don't really mind to get a miss 10 times in a row but if thats accompanied with "this is..this is...this is..." each and every single time hmm.
    Talnova
  • CodeLimeCodeLime
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    The dungeons are boring and require not skill and just timings. Since heals are mass abundant they really couldn't make the game harder without reworking heals. The worst part of the game is i can't invite my friends to play. Since they would need to put 600+ hours in order to play with me lol. No way in hell will i waste my dungeon plays on my newb friends.
    TalnovaTinyTarrasque
  • LilyXSLilyXS
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    Babou wrote: »
    DanRPS wrote: »
    4. Allow an option to remove "error" voice lines, like when my character is farming and I keep hearing her go "yes!" "uggghh no". I like my characters voice, but the error lines are irritating and repetitive.
    This.
    And my Runeblade always sounds like he's annoyed, even when he manages to successfully gather resources.

    I don't know what I would add to this, except that I'm not really into that 11th QOL, since I'm an introvert even in-game.

    It's the main reason i turned character volume to zero. I don't really mind to get a miss 10 times in a row but if thats accompanied with "this is..this is...this is..." each and every single time hmm.

    If you move just after the progress bar flashes to say it's complete you will skip the voice line all together.

    Another tip: In Berg and Alkimi find a 2x2 of what you are mining [ So difficult, I know~ ] and harvest from three of them. Shift to the one that you haven't harvested after the progress flashes and start mining that one. Once you are about half way through harvesting that one, the other two for your three set will refresh allowing you to collect from three again saving you a bunch of time. This can also be done with Ranching and Farming. You just need to have two groups of 2x2 right next to each other [ 2x4 ] you harvest one 2x2 and then harvest the other 2x2 as soon as the flash happens. It's a little more involved for the gathering but can save you a decent amount of time, haven't checked the actual time mostly because I can't be bothered but also because RNG makes that a little difficult to get an accurate time.
    DanRPSTalnova
  • DanRPSDanRPS
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    LilyXS wrote: »
    Another tip: In Berg and Alkimi find a 2x2 of what you are mining [ So difficult, I know~ ] and harvest from three of them. Shift to the one that you haven't harvested after the progress flashes and start mining that one. Once you are about half way through harvesting that one, the other two for your three set will refresh allowing you to collect from three again saving you a bunch of time. This can also be done with Ranching and Farming. You just need to have two groups of 2x2 right next to each other [ 2x4 ] you harvest one 2x2 and then harvest the other 2x2 as soon as the flash happens. It's a little more involved for the gathering but can save you a decent amount of time, haven't checked the actual time mostly because I can't be bothered but also because RNG makes that a little difficult to get an accurate time.

    Not hearing your annoying character is already enough reason to do that. Saving time is just a bonus.

    Talnova
  • Shipon7Shipon7
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    A lot of the changes you're proposing are already in motion for the sky expansion. The event brings new dailys, weeklys, and monthlys. Also the dungeon farming will be changing. MS2 is still young. A lot of the things you complain about are endgame (3rd accessory socket). There's a reason why it's hard to get to the chaos dungeons. It's not supposed to be easy. I don't know what you're talking about with the dailies being too "time consuming." But again, you seem to want this game to be a lot easier than it already is.

    I think you're feeling the symptom of this game holding your hand for levels 1-50 and then letting you loose after that. You feel like the game owes you progression at this point. I've seen countless people with 3rd socket accessories and maxed out life skills. Just because you're annoyed by it doesn't mean it's impossible.
  • TalnovaTalnova
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    edited 12:41PM December 5, 2018
    Shipon7 wrote: »
    A lot of the changes you're proposing are already in motion for the sky expansion. The event brings new dailys, weeklys, and monthlys. Also the dungeon farming will be changing. MS2 is still young. A lot of the things you complain about are endgame (3rd accessory socket). There's a reason why it's hard to get to the chaos dungeons. It's not supposed to be easy. I don't know what you're talking about with the dailies being too "time consuming." But again, you seem to want this game to be a lot easier than it already is.

    I think you're feeling the symptom of this game holding your hand for levels 1-50 and then letting you loose after that. You feel like the game owes you progression at this point. I've seen countless people with 3rd socket accessories and maxed out life skills. Just because you're annoyed by it doesn't mean it's impossible.

    Nope, pretty much the exact opposite of what i want so I think you misunderstood me completely. Not even one thing you said was in alignment with what i am asking for.

    I do not want things to be easier, in fact I think things designed to make the game easier are a mistake. i want it to stay difficult.

    I do not want more dailies, I think there are too many dailies already and that they are one of the main reasons people are burning out. I want less dailies, and the freedom to do what I want when I play the game instead of being forced to complete chores before I can start enjoying the game each day. This is why I want the dungeon system changed so we can do only one dungeon a day instead of 10, and for life skills to be sped up and made more interesting.

    I do not want socketing earrings to be easier, I want them to change the way earing are socketted to make it less painful by making it cheaper, but to be equally difficult by lowering the chance of success. I want them to retain the difficulty pre-toad stones. The point I made with the lotto ticket example is that a low chance-low cost rng is less painful when you fail than high chance-high cost rng, even if overall you still spend the same average amount on the item.
  • TalnovaTalnova
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    CodeLime wrote: »
    The dungeons are boring and require not skill and just timings. Since heals are mass abundant they really couldn't make the game harder without reworking heals. The worst part of the game is i can't invite my friends to play. Since they would need to put 600+ hours in order to play with me lol. No way in hell will i waste my dungeon plays on my newb friends.

    Exactly!!!! This is pretty much my entire point.

    Although I think the main reason dungeons are boring is because there are no meanful drops - they just aren’t very rewarding to run at all. This is why I want then to add some rare drops to make it more fun.

    And if we only had to do one dungeon a day for a daily chest, and the dungeon cap was removed, you could play with your friends as much as you want without feeling punished.

    Doing 10-15 dungeons is painful and boring, and is why people burn out. The minimum required per day should be 1 dungeon not 10.
  • ZZZzzzZZZzzz
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    edited 12:57PM December 5, 2018
    Shipon7 wrote: »
    A lot of the changes you're proposing are already in motion for the sky expansion. The event brings new dailys, weeklys, and monthlys. Also the dungeon farming will be changing. MS2 is still young. A lot of the things you complain about are endgame (3rd accessory socket). There's a reason why it's hard to get to the chaos dungeons. It's not supposed to be easy. I don't know what you're talking about with the dailies being too "time consuming." But again, you seem to want this game to be a lot easier than it already is.

    I think you're feeling the symptom of this game holding your hand for levels 1-50 and then letting you loose after that. You feel like the game owes you progression at this point. I've seen countless people with 3rd socket accessories and maxed out life skills. Just because you're annoyed by it doesn't mean it's impossible.
    I don't think MS2 is young. Many people already got experience for years, and many contents are not supposed to be young. For example, people hit level 50 in a day and do hard dungeon directly. They skipped all maps, all grindings and most of normal dungeons. Do you think these things are reasonable in a young game ?

    Endgame is our goal. Most of us are working on it. I know endgame should be hard, however, hard and RNG are completely different. Some people can get it with 1 attempt. Can you really call it hard ? whats the difference between P2W and RNG here while all lucky and rich guys can achieve endgame right away ?
    ClericeruTalnova
  • TalnovaTalnova
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    edited 1:09PM December 5, 2018
    I just want to make it clear since I am worried I didn’t explain things properly.

    I do not want the game to be easier (or harder) because I do not think difficulty or rng is the problem with the game!

    I do want them to reduce the amount of tasks that are required to do each day before we are free to do what we want, like getting to the dungeon cap for example.

    I do want them to make dungeons and other daily tasks like life skills more rewarding and fun.
    TinyTarrasque
  • ClericeruClericeru
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    edited 2:06PM December 5, 2018
    Talnova wrote: »
    I do not want more dailies, I think there are too many dailies already and that they are one of the main reasons people are burning out. I want less dailies, and the freedom to do what I want when I play the game instead of being forced to complete chores before I can start enjoying the game each day. This is why I want the dungeon system changed so we can do only one dungeon a day instead of 10, and for life skills to be sped up and made more interesting.

    One dungeon per day?
  • Shipon7Shipon7
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    edited 4:12PM December 5, 2018
    Talnova wrote: »
    Shipon7 wrote: »
    A lot of the changes you're proposing are already in motion for the sky expansion. The event brings new dailys, weeklys, and monthlys. Also the dungeon farming will be changing. MS2 is still young. A lot of the things you complain about are endgame (3rd accessory socket). There's a reason why it's hard to get to the chaos dungeons. It's not supposed to be easy. I don't know what you're talking about with the dailies being too "time consuming." But again, you seem to want this game to be a lot easier than it already is.

    I think you're feeling the symptom of this game holding your hand for levels 1-50 and then letting you loose after that. You feel like the game owes you progression at this point. I've seen countless people with 3rd socket accessories and maxed out life skills. Just because you're annoyed by it doesn't mean it's impossible.


    I do not want more dailies, I think there are too many dailies already and that they are one of the main reasons people are burning out. I want less dailies, and the freedom to do what I want when I play the game instead of being forced to complete chores before I can start enjoying the game each day. This is why I want the dungeon system changed so we can do only one dungeon a day instead of 10, and for life skills to be sped up and made more interesting.

    I do not want socketing earrings to be easier, I want them to change the way earing are socketted to make it less painful by making it cheaper, but to be equally difficult by lowering the chance of success. I want them to retain the difficulty pre-toad stones. The point I made with the lotto ticket example is that a low chance-low cost rng is less painful when you fail than high chance-high cost rng, even if overall you still spend the same average amount on the item.

    Cheaper to socket, but lower chance = More expensive, but better chance. So you want nothing to change.

    And you want everything to be given to you in one dungeon instead of 10. So you want it easier.

    Grinding is a part of every single MMO, ESPECIALLY Maplestory. Always has been a part of this game, always will be.

    People are complaining about RNG because it doesn't matter in the game until level 50. That's what's wrong with the game. People like you can't stand progression halting when RNG is involved because it doesn't exist in any other part of the game. God do you know how long I would grind for a pan lid in MS1? Or grinding for Steelys? RNG is a part of MMOs because they give rare items the rarity they deserve. If every person playing the game had legendary gear, and fully socketed accessories, then what makes it so special. Getting good gear is the only thing in this game that actually feels like an accomplishment, since leveling up is so easy to do.
  • TalnovaTalnova
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    edited 5:55PM December 5, 2018
    Clericeru wrote: »
    One dungeon per day?

    One dungeon “required” and then as many as they want for fun. This is why I want the cap removed because I believe the cap makes people feel like they “must” do 10-15 dungeons a day to keep up. Then I want the first dungeon of the day to be more rewarding via a first dungeon of the day reward chest, so that people only feel like they “must” do one dungeon a day instead of 10-15. BUT I still want them to be allowed to do more than one.

    I want the first dungeon to provide linear progression via upgrade materials that help you get to +15 or get more sockets etc. Then I want the dungeons after that to provide side-ways progression via things slightly better stats and cosmetic rewards. The goal is to find the sweet spot where you only need to do 1 a day to progress, but you still feel rewarded for doing dungeons after the first, without being able to progress so fast that you run out of things to do.
    Shipon7 wrote: »
    Cheaper to socket, but lower chance = More expensive, but better chance. So you want nothing to change.

    Exactly, in terms of difficulty nothing would change. However in terms of pain and making people so pissed off they want to quitt the game? Everything would change.
    Shipon7 wrote: »
    And you want everything to be given to you in one dungeon instead of 10. So you want it easier.

    Yes, look at it that way if you want. The point isn’t to make the game easier though at all. The point is to remove the cap and allow players to choose how to play the game instead of being forced into doing 1-2 hours of dungeons every day whether they want to or not

    The point is to remove the feeling that when you log on you have a list of chores to do before you can do anything you want to do.

    People are quitting the game because they log on every day and the first things they do when they log on are tedious, boring and unrewarding. All of my suggestions are aimed at removing the feeling that this game is a chore and make it more fun.

    Shipon7 wrote: »
    Grinding is a part of every single MMO, ESPECIALLY Maplestory. Always has been a part of this game, always will be.

    People are complaining about RNG because it doesn't matter in the game until level 50. That's what's wrong with the game. People like you can't stand progression halting when RNG is involved because it doesn't exist in any other part of the game. God do you know how long I would grind for a pan lid in MS1? Or grinding for Steelys? RNG is a part of MMOs because they give rare items the rarity they deserve. If every person playing the game had legendary gear, and fully socketed accessories, then what makes it so special. Getting good gear is the only thing in this game that actually feels like an accomplishment, since leveling up is so easy to do.

    I agree. In fact my favourite games are grindy looter based games. My favourites ever include Ragnarok Online and Diablo 3.

    Why is it I can play 1000s of hours grinding i those games but MS2 i wanted to quit after only one month?

    The grind in those games is rewarding, you get rare loot, they are pretty easy so you can chill while you play AND they don’t force you to log in and do 2-3 hours of boring and unrewarding content every single day before they let you choose what you want to do. When you get bored you just log off, if you are tired the next day you don’t log on. You play those games because you want to. MS2 you log on and play because you feel like you have to, every single day.

    I love grindy games, that is why I suggested adding more rewarding drops to the loot table in ms2, because there are no rewards for doing a dungeon except what basically equates to crafting mats. Which might be fine, if the dungeon didn’t force you to do a specific amount every day. When you are forced to log in it starts to feel like a job.

    My suggestions aren”t meant to remove all the grind and make people feel like they can complete the game in a day. My suggestions are meant to remove as much as the feeling that people must log in and play a certain amount every day as possible.

    I want people to be free to not do dungeons if they don’t feel like it, or to do a lot of dungeons if they do.

    The goal is to make the game not feel like a job. The goal is to make it feel like a game.

    I think you are struggling to understand me because you believe the game’s problems can only be solved by making the game either easier or more difficult. I am trying to say that what people need is not for things to be easier (or more difficult) but for there to be more freedom to choose what they want to do and when, instead of feeling locked into a specific amount of each task each day.

    MS2 was really fun in beta because we didn’t “have” to do anything, because our characters would be deleted everything was optional. Now because we want to progress we are continously being made to feel like we “have” to do things. These things become boring when they are no longer optional and our brains start to associate the tasks with pain!
  • Shipon7Shipon7
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 1,685
    Posts: 30
    Member
    edited 5:58PM December 5, 2018
    Talnova wrote: »
    MS2 was really fun in beta because we didn’t “have” to do anything, because our characters would be deleted everything was optional. Now because we want to progress we are continously being made to feel like we “have” to do things. These things become boring when they are no longer optional and our brains start to associate the tasks with pain!

    You don't have to do anything. Nexon isn't holding a gun to your head making you do anything. You only want to do 1 dungeon a day? Go for it. You can play how you want right now. Don't want to do life skills every day? Don't. Nobody is making you do anything.
  • InbumInbum
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 1,285
    Posts: 163
    Member
    Shipon7 wrote: »
    Grinding is a part of every single MMO, ESPECIALLY Maplestory. Always has been a part of this game, always will be.

    People are complaining about RNG because it doesn't matter in the game until level 50. That's what's wrong with the game. People like you can't stand progression halting when RNG is involved because it doesn't exist in any other part of the game. God do you know how long I would grind for a pan lid in MS1? Or grinding for Steelys? RNG is a part of MMOs because they give rare items the rarity they deserve. If every person playing the game had legendary gear, and fully socketed accessories, then what makes it so special. Getting good gear is the only thing in this game that actually feels like an accomplishment, since leveling up is so easy to do.

    How long does it take to get ilbis? Was there a time limit on how long you could grind for ilbis per week? The reason I quit a level 200 DA in ms1 with, ALL LINK SKILLS, is because of stupid rng on sweetwater equips and not being able to do gollux or half of the bosses because, GUESS WHAT, RNG AND DAILY/WEAKLY/WEEKLY LIMITS KILLED MS1.
    Talnova
  • InbumInbum
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 1,285
    Posts: 163
    Member
    Inbum wrote: »
    Shipon7 wrote: »
    Grinding is a part of every single MMO, ESPECIALLY Maplestory. Always has been a part of this game, always will be.

    People are complaining about RNG because it doesn't matter in the game until level 50. That's what's wrong with the game. People like you can't stand progression halting when RNG is involved because it doesn't exist in any other part of the game. God do you know how long I would grind for a pan lid in MS1? Or grinding for Steelys? RNG is a part of MMOs because they give rare items the rarity they deserve. If every person playing the game had legendary gear, and fully socketed accessories, then what makes it so special. Getting good gear is the only thing in this game that actually feels like an accomplishment, since leveling up is so easy to do.

    How long does it take to get ilbis? Was there a time limit on how long you could grind for ilbis per week? The reason I quit a level 200 DA in ms1 with, ALL LINK SKILLS, is because of stupid rng on sweetwater equips and not being able to do gollux or half of the bosses because, GUESS WHAT, RNG AND DAILY/WEAKLY/WEEKLY LIMITS KILLED MS1.

    Not to mention all PQs are non existent/dead in that game since pq lobby is always empty.
  • TalnovaTalnova
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 2,065
    Posts: 120
    Member
    edited 6:56PM December 5, 2018
    Shipon7 wrote: »
    Talnova wrote: »
    MS2 was really fun in beta because we didn’t “have” to do anything, because our characters would be deleted everything was optional. Now because we want to progress we are continously being made to feel like we “have” to do things. These things become boring when they are no longer optional and our brains start to associate the tasks with pain!

    You don't have to do anything. Nexon isn't holding a gun to your head making you do anything. You only want to do 1 dungeon a day? Go for it. You can play how you want right now. Don't want to do life skills every day? Don't. Nobody is making you do anything.

    Sure say that, but clearly this is a cop out answer. If I didn’t want to progress in the game and do well I might as well quit.

    People naturally want to do wel at the game, and to do well at the game you feel like you must reach the dungeon cap, especially when you are preparing for chaos raids. It is a driving force for the game.

    Of course I can not play as much, I could even quit now too, but the whole point of this thread is to prevent that.

    Edit: That last sentence came off almost like a threat to quit but I didn’t mean it that way, what I meant is they are options availble to me, and an option a lot of people are choosing.
  • InbumInbum
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 1,285
    Posts: 163
    Member
    edited 6:13PM December 5, 2018
    Talnova wrote: »
    Shipon7 wrote: »
    Talnova wrote: »
    MS2 was really fun in beta because we didn’t “have” to do anything, because our characters would be deleted everything was optional. Now because we want to progress we are continously being made to feel like we “have” to do things. These things become boring when they are no longer optional and our brains start to associate the tasks with pain!

    You don't have to do anything. Nexon isn't holding a gun to your head making you do anything. You only want to do 1 dungeon a day? Go for it. You can play how you want right now. Don't want to do life skills every day? Don't. Nobody is making you do anything.

    Sure say that, but clearly this is a cop out answer. If I didn’t want to progress in the game and do well I might as well quit.

    People naturally want to do wel at the game, and to do well at the game you feel like you must reach the dungeon cap, especially when you are preparing for chaos raids. It is a driving force for the game.

    Of course I can not play as much, I could even quit now too, but the whole point of this thread is to prevent that.

    Do you understand magic, magnets, or even karma? I really doubt it lol. You could always fail, or just like, watch netflix or something.