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Archer buffs (how would you buff them)

MercedesNoLongerMercedesNoLonger
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in General Chat
I want to hear everyone's opinion because it's obvious that our class isn't great, even in KMS they were bad, I'm not sure how to give suggestions without going on a rant, but I'd love to hear the community (those who play archer and those who have seen archers) how would you buff them? I find it weird how Assassins have crit rate AND crit damage, from their LUK (even though it doesn't work currently) because to me that seems broken beyond belief, and wizards have good aoe, good single target damage, 3 blinks, and shields to mitigate damage, which in my honest opinion does make it feel like the better archer while archer has no sustain and an ability that feels risky to even use in Cmoc or Cdev.

It's pretty obvious that our class is really used for the buff to make everyone not miss which is very important, but that's not what an archer is... Our class is weak but no one at Nexon is listening, they don't get that our 1 dash takes 4 stamina, and our damage is low compared to many classes, it can be decent to alright if we're funded and geared but even then our damage is low compared to other classes. Wizards get strong elemental damage (fire) and that gives them a big damage increase, on top of that they get damage boosts through their buffs. Archers are honestly just a weak class, I feel like they should have something built into the kit to make us feel like "archers" I'm perfectly fine if they make the class a lot harder to give us damage, in fact I'd honestly love to no longer be a "sit still and shoot" class. I feel like the only thing that actually makes archer feel like an "archer" is the fact that we have slightly farther range than wizard / assassin.

I'd love to listen to everyone ideas on how archer would get a buff OR how they could be more "archer themed" because the archer right now feels like a nerf gun sniper.

Comments

  • StellaeoraStellaeora
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    edited 7:41PM December 2, 2018
    Archer is okay. They're neither the best nor the worst class. They are not even "bad"; their relatively low skill ceiling and long range mean they can have higher DPS uptime than almost all other classes. That makes their effective DPS a lot higher on real bosses than you'll see against dummies when comparing against other classes.

    I say this as an Archer main pushing to clear Chaotic Clock Tower.

    That said, if I had to pick some changes I'd like, it'd be to swap the long range/short range behavior of Arrow Storm and to make Sharp Eyes have a slightly lower cooldown.
    Tsene
  • MercedesNoLongerMercedesNoLonger
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    Stellaeora wrote: »
    Archer is okay. They're neither the best nor the worst class. They are not even "bad"; their relatively low skill ceiling and long range mean they can have higher DPS uptime than almost all other classes. That makes their effective DPS a lot higher on real bosses than you'll see against dummies when comparing against other classes.

    I say this as an Archer main pushing to clear Chaotic Clock Tower.

    That said, if I had to pick some changes I'd like, it'd be to swap the long range/short range behavior of Arrow Storm and to make Sharp Eyes have a slightly lower cooldown.

    I honestly feel like they need more than just that, I think that'd be a nice buff though. Thanks :D I'm probably going to start practicing CPaP, I've already cleared cmoc
  • FeverJawsFeverJaws
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    archers are fine. its just the players that honestly suck.. and either dont know how to build their character or something else
  • RichterRichter
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    Personally, prolly buff Bow Swing and Ice Arrow for the bigger build variety, perhaps we could see some Archers doing this build.
  • CalindelCalindel
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    From what ive seen of the top guilds on NAEast atleast currently doing CPAP their archers are at the top of the dps charts.

    It comes down to bad players, not a bad class.

    You do not magically win the game at 4.5k gear score and become raid ready;
    Do you have sufficient Piercing and Physical Piercing
    Do you have 90 or more Accuracy
    Do you have atleast 12% additional Boss Damage
    Do you have an epic pet and is it leveled
    Did you unlock atleast 2, if not 3 sockets on your accessories yet
    Have you slotted the correct combination of acc/offense/dex gems

    Sadly for the majority of dps players the answers to most of those questions are no, imo archer is fine. Fix your stats and put some actual time into gearing yourself.
    TsenePixelPantsu
  • MercedesNoLongerMercedesNoLonger
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    edited 8:31PM December 3, 2018
    FeverJaws wrote: »
    archers are fine. its just the players that honestly suck.. and either dont know how to build their character or something else

    archers are far from fine honestly, I'm doing cmoc and I'm geared and still do low damage, it's stupid how we have to choose support build over our actual damage build. I hate the fact that it's sharp eyes over us building piercing.
  • MercedesNoLongerMercedesNoLonger
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    edited 9:06PM December 3, 2018
    Calindel wrote: »
    From what ive seen of the top guilds on NAEast atleast currently doing CPAP their archers are at the top of the dps charts.

    It comes down to bad players, not a bad class.

    You do not magically win the game at 4.5k gear score and become raid ready;
    Do you have sufficient Piercing and Physical Piercing
    Do you have 90 or more Accuracy
    Do you have atleast 12% additional Boss Damage
    Do you have an epic pet and is it leveled
    Did you unlock atleast 2, if not 3 sockets on your accessories yet
    Have you slotted the correct combination of acc/offense/dex gems

    Sadly for the majority of dps players the answers to most of those questions are no, imo archer is fine. Fix your stats and put some actual time into gearing yourself.

    1. 92 accuracy and 504 DEX
    2. 16.6 Phys pierce on the dot and 15.1 piercing (can get up to 20.1 if I put on my piercing equips)
    3. 16.6 Boss damage as well (also have 4% ranged damage) = to basically 20.6 boss damage.
    4. I have an epic pet (working on leveling it as we speak, currently level 22)
    5. all of my equips have 2 socks, working on 3 for my pendant and earrings
    6.I have 3 tier 5 offensive gems, 1 tier 4, 1 tier 5 accuracy, 1 tier 5 DEX gem. (440 bonus attack, 5 Accuracy, 13 Dex)
    [img]file:///C:/Users/Nicholas/Desktop/20181203_230030_01.jpg[/img]
    [img][/img][img][/img][img]file:///C:/Users/Nicholas/Desktop/20181203_230350_03.jpg[/img]
    [img]file:///C:/Users/Nicholas/Desktop/20181203_230458_05.jpg[/img]
  • MercedesNoLongerMercedesNoLonger
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 1,135
    Posts: 80
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    file:///C:/Users/Nicholas/Desktop/20181203_230350_03.jpg

    file:///C:/Users/Nicholas/Desktop/20181203_230458_05.jpg

    file:///C:/Users/Nicholas/Desktop/20181203_230030_01.jpg

    ^ those are my stats
    Calindel wrote: »
    From what ive seen of the top guilds on NAEast atleast currently doing CPAP their archers are at the top of the dps charts.

    It comes down to bad players, not a bad class.

    You do not magically win the game at 4.5k gear score and become raid ready;
    Do you have sufficient Piercing and Physical Piercing
    Do you have 90 or more Accuracy
    Do you have atleast 12% additional Boss Damage
    Do you have an epic pet and is it leveled
    Did you unlock atleast 2, if not 3 sockets on your accessories yet
    Have you slotted the correct combination of acc/offense/dex gems

    Sadly for the majority of dps players the answers to most of those questions are no, imo archer is fine. Fix your stats and put some actual time into gearing yourself.

    file:///C:/Users/Nicholas/Desktop/20181203_230350_03.jpg

    file:///C:/Users/Nicholas/Desktop/20181203_230458_05.jpg

    file:///C:/Users/Nicholas/Desktop/20181203_230030_01.jpg

    ^ those are my stats
  • DanDKDanDK
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    Calindel wrote: »
    It comes down to bad players, not a bad class.

    (...)

    It's kinda sad that the definition of being a good player these days is a list of stat checks.
    MercedesNoLongerCryotron
  • FeverJawsFeverJaws
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    Member
    edited 3:23AM December 4, 2018
    Calindel wrote: »
    From what ive seen of the top guilds on NAEast atleast currently doing CPAP their archers are at the top of the dps charts.

    It comes down to bad players, not a bad class.

    You do not magically win the game at 4.5k gear score and become raid ready;
    Do you have sufficient Piercing and Physical Piercing
    Do you have 90 or more Accuracy
    Do you have atleast 12% additional Boss Damage
    Do you have an epic pet and is it leveled
    Did you unlock atleast 2, if not 3 sockets on your accessories yet
    Have you slotted the correct combination of acc/offense/dex gems

    Sadly for the majority of dps players the answers to most of those questions are no, imo archer is fine. Fix your stats and put some actual time into gearing yourself.

    Piercing and physical piercing is not required at all. the difference in damage is minimal. you wont get 40% more dmg at 30%. your only getting at best 300-400 more attack. which wont result in alot of dmg.

    the damage they get comes from pets,gems, boss/range dmg etc. this alone is more then 60% of your dmg.
  • MercedesNoLongerMercedesNoLonger
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 1,135
    Posts: 80
    Member
    Calindel wrote: »
    From what ive seen of the top guilds on NAEast atleast currently doing CPAP their archers are at the top of the dps charts.

    It comes down to bad players, not a bad class.

    You do not magically win the game at 4.5k gear score and become raid ready;
    Do you have sufficient Piercing and Physical Piercing
    Do you have 90 or more Accuracy
    Do you have atleast 12% additional Boss Damage
    Do you have an epic pet and is it leveled
    Did you unlock atleast 2, if not 3 sockets on your accessories yet
    Have you slotted the correct combination of acc/offense/dex gems

    Sadly for the majority of dps players the answers to most of those questions are no, imo archer is fine. Fix your stats and put some actual time into gearing yourself.

    1. 92 accuracy and 504 DEX
    2. 16.6 Phys pierce on the dot and 15.1 piercing (can get up to 20.1 if I put on my piercing equips)
    3. 16.6 Boss damage as well (also have 4% ranged damage) = to basically 20.6 boss damage.
    4. I have an epic pet (working on leveling it as we speak, currently level 22)
    5. all of my equips have 2 socks, working on 3 for my pendant and earrings
    6.I have 3 tier 5 offensive gems, 1 tier 4, 1 tier 5 accuracy, 1 tier 5 DEX gem. (440 bonus attack, 5 Accuracy, 13 Dex)[img][/img]
    DanDK wrote: »
    Calindel wrote: »
    It comes down to bad players, not a bad class.

    (...)

    It's kinda sad that the definition of being a good player these days is a list of stat checks.

    I completely agree
  • StellaeoraStellaeora
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    edited 6:47AM December 4, 2018
    Okay, now I'm curious OP. According to what you posted your stats are actually approximately on par with mine, so I'm not sure where the complaint of low damage is coming from. Let's compare stats.

    Gcyzhr6.png
    House buff only, no other buffs. Epic Pet is level 30-something.

    eTrMcw2.jpg?1
    15 minute Chaotic Shadow Altar damage.

    x5j7Bil.png
    ~13.5 minute Chaotic Moonlight Fortress damage.

    In terms of comparisons, this damage seems about correct for my gear level. It's far from perfect, so I shouldn't expect to be in the topmost bracket of DPS players; but clearly, my damage isn't anything to scoff at either. It's high but not topmost-tier.
    MercedesNoLonger
  • WittlePlushyWittlePlushy
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    Cross out the names before a mod notices monkaS

  • CalindelCalindel
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    As I said, the top raiding guilds on NA-East are getting very good DPS results from their archers, guilds such as Lionheart who had CPAP cleared 10 minutes after it was released.

    Its not the class, its you. Thats not to say you are bad, are dumb, or anything childish. Its just a matter of learning mechanics more, getting more comfortable with an encounter and being able to dish out more damage while staying safe.

    Asfar as the ignorant remarks from DanDK the stats simply show the gap between being able to enter the raid and actually being able to dps in the raid. Obtaining the min. of 4.5k gs does not mean you should be in the raid, many, many players havent even socketed a single accessory yet, own any gemstone or even utilize a pet, let alone an epic pet.

  • MercedesNoLongerMercedesNoLonger
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    Posts: 80
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    Stellaeora wrote: »
    Okay, now I'm curious OP. According to what you posted your stats are actually approximately on par with mine, so I'm not sure where the complaint of low damage is coming from. Let's compare stats.

    Gcyzhr6.png
    House buff only, no other buffs. Epic Pet is level 30-something.

    eTrMcw2.jpg?1
    15 minute Chaotic Shadow Altar damage.

    x5j7Bil.png
    ~13.5 minute Chaotic Moonlight Fortress damage.

    In terms of comparisons, this damage seems about correct for my gear level. It's far from perfect, so I shouldn't expect to be in the topmost bracket of DPS players; but clearly, my damage isn't anything to scoff at either. It's high but not topmost-tier.

    I'm looking at your stats and the only think you're really beating me hard on is boss damage, I guess I just have to try and be more aggressive than I already am? not too sure, I feel like I'm dealing damage as much as possible but maybe I just need to do something differently, really did help a lot seeing your damage.
  • StellaeoraStellaeora
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    edited 3:57PM December 4, 2018
    That's probably it, yes. You can leverage a lot of extra damage by maximizing your DPS uptime as well as using Lapentiers, jumpcasting, learning to use Evasive Salvo instead of Eagle Glide, and not dying (of course).

    As final encouragement, I managed to pull this one just today:
    Oe0lBFS.png?1
    15 minute Chaotic Moonlight Fortress, fully buffed with all consumables. My gear hasn't changed at all since my previous post, but this was the mechanically cleanest Moonlight Fortress I've ever done; no missed jumps, no deaths, and I got something like 10 Rooted Strength Lapentiers off fully throughout the fight. From all that I managed over 30m higher than my previous post.

    At your stats you should be able to manage the same or slightly lower. People criticize Archer as a class with a low skill ceiling, but that's only true when comparing to other classes around mid-tier gameplay. Even within Archer play there's a lot of room for optimization of your DPS.
    MercedesNoLonger
  • MercedesNoLongerMercedesNoLonger
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 1,135
    Posts: 80
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    Stellaeora wrote: »
    That's probably it, yes. You can leverage a lot of extra damage by maximizing your DPS uptime as well as using Lapentiers, jumpcasting, learning to use Evasive Salvo instead of Eagle Glide, and not dying (of course).

    As final encouragement, I managed to pull this one just today:
    Oe0lBFS.png?1
    15 minute Chaotic Moonlight Fortress, fully buffed with all consumables. My gear hasn't changed at all since my previous post, but this was the mechanically cleanest Moonlight Fortress I've ever done; no missed jumps, no deaths, and I got something like 10 Rooted Strength Lapentiers off fully throughout the fight. From all that I managed over 30m higher than my previous post.

    At your stats you should be able to manage the same or slightly lower. People criticize Archer as a class with a low skill ceiling, but that's only true when comparing to other classes around mid-tier gameplay. Even within Archer play there's a lot of room for optimization of your DPS.

    I actually never used rooted strength, and I almost never use tonics, I'd like to try and use them after I see my damage in a clear clean run. I don't get why they say we have a low skill cieling, to me salvo is pretty hard to use as a dodge when there's aoe the size of a truck.
  • MercedesNoLongerMercedesNoLonger
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    Posts: 80
    Member
    Stellaeora wrote: »
    Okay, now I'm curious OP. According to what you posted your stats are actually approximately on par with mine, so I'm not sure where the complaint of low damage is coming from. Let's compare stats.

    Gcyzhr6.png
    House buff only, no other buffs. Epic Pet is level 30-something.

    eTrMcw2.jpg?1
    15 minute Chaotic Shadow Altar damage.

    x5j7Bil.png
    ~13.5 minute Chaotic Moonlight Fortress damage.

    In terms of comparisons, this damage seems about correct for my gear level. It's far from perfect, so I shouldn't expect to be in the topmost bracket of DPS players; but clearly, my damage isn't anything to scoff at either. It's high but not topmost-tier.

    I just did 120m DPS in cdev, missed a few jumps and died once but overall did a lot better, I didn't even go Agile archer/majesty, I had to get 10 points into sharp eyes so I'm technically missing some damage, so I'd say I did pretty damn good.