Learn everything about the Guilded Glory update this month from the patch notes!

>> http://forums.maplestory2.nexon.net/discussion/45646/

"State of the Game Week 7" by LAMBCOOK

Comments

  • ThendriksThendriks
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 2,700
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    edited 2:30AM November 29, 2018
    @NXACuddles @LAMBCOOK @JungsooLee

    You are basically saying that you don't care if players enjoy your game.

    We as a community pointed out that your dungeon loot system is garbage and will fix nothing and you are still going through with it. Our complaints lead to a little cherry on your pile of garbage so thank you for that I guess. But NO thank you because we don't want to eat garbage no matter how much sugar you pour onto it. Every day we are bleeding players because of your delusional ideas to fix basic things. A few days earlier I actually cared about this games design and thought we could change things for the better. I am disappointed and out of words for this mess ...

    I will not take my time to post anything constructive because it will lead to nothing. Take my insults and have a nice day.
    Jynnmirta000HauvenSibyllKayshaFantasykittenMiehDarkpixie99CariseiArSkulderand 5 others.
  • NilremNilrem
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    Maple Guide
    Going to play devil's advocate I guess.

    I don't mind the changes to dungeon loot.
    I understand why other people aren't happy with it, I just have a different opinion.
    Maybe I'm just that patient.

    We are just going from running a single dungeon over and over for weapons and instead having the option of two dungeons.
    Two much more interactive, engaging, teamwork based dungeons that won't make you fall asleep like Fire Dragon does.
    (And no, don't pretend people actually ran Lab Halls until recently despite it being arguably easier than fire dragon.)

    I've already run Lubelisk over 100 times, but I'm not bored of it like I was with Fire Dragon.
    Because its a much more engaging dungeon. Same with Temple of Immortals.

    Also, aren't Varrekant and Balrog wings highly desired and now going to be obtainable alongside weapon farming, making a highly desired piece of equipment much easier to obtain and have ready to use?

    My only gripe is how many runs it takes for the rerollers.
    Maybe tone that amount down a tad. I mean, we still got B4 runs alongside that...
    But RNG is RNG.

    Either way, I await the Soul Binder update so I can enjoy the class and make terrible ball puns.
    Just don't drop the ball on the update.
  • RoxxRoxx
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    i feel like, they fight more against us players then they do actually fight against bots :D
    but hey if there arent any players left, those bots might leave aswell :D

    because like someone allready said, one step forward, two steps backwards.
    TeSalveiJynnmirta000SibyllThendriksFantasykittenCariseiArSkulderShangheiliEinoand 1 other.
  • DrakoKanDrakoKan
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    Well lets see when this patch comes out xD
    As a Bers im not really so happy to run Lube for reach the 15 goal on my weapon (stuck at +12 for 3 week... -.-),but at least is a bit much more fun then run the ""FD Lizard Dummy" xD
    But I can adapt i hope xD
    Im curious to see the Skyfortress stuff :D
    And to test the class glad of they give one more char slot free :D


  • ExigaExiga
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    edited 6:15AM November 29, 2018
    delete
  • MiskyMisky
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 780
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    edited 7:05AM November 29, 2018
    I think that a better change for the dungeon loot would be having a chest similar to chaos raids for weapons, that lets you chose which type of weapon do you want, but for all the dungeons. That way you don't feel locked to one dungeon because you need to enchant to +15.
    With this change you can focus on certain dungeons for boes and have the accesory fragments or pieces of armor scattered across the dungeons as something that offers variety of rewards.
    Also, i like the changes to fire dragon and lab as low difficulty hard dungeons that give less rewards. That way we'll have something like an introduction for new players to get gear and they won't feel too pressure by other players to clear it fast. That said, i think that is also important having weapons in these dungeons in order to keep them relevant, or else once you get the epic armor/accesories, you'll never touch them again unless you want pets or achievements.

    So with this changes we would have more options and decisions to get gear and all dungeons would stay relevant.
    FD/Lab could focus on quick clears>getting weapons faster, but at the cost of no profitable items.
    Lube/Rog focus would be mainly wings or other boes.
    And Tris/Rune focus would be kandura/nutaman.

    If you are going to implement rerollers, i think they should be in all dungeons or else we are going to have the same problem of being locked to specific dungeons, and spamming the same dungeon for a week doesn't feel good for any player. I think many of us are kinda burned out because of that.
  • SecrotsSecrots
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    I think the problem isn't even the fact that we're being forced to run certain dungeons anymore. You have content like B4 that needs attention because it's the only reliable way to get the dusts you need for gemstones, but buying runs is such a risky move. The costs of unlocking sockets...the low chance of upgrading gemstones...the lack of material to try...This whole feature is just demotivating. Then you have pets themselves being RNG, where epics are so good compared to exceptional, but the RNG in getting the proper lines or even the epic pet itself is not great.

    I'm just tired of not progressing. I hit +15, I have ok stats, but being told that I failed an upgrade that I can only do once a week is demoralizing. This update doesn't touch on that issue, nor does Sky Fortress.

    I think it's time for a hiatus.
    HauvenJynnAcsoulThendriksMieh
  • mirta000mirta000
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    my husband auto played to 60 because he got really bored of the main story.
    I used black market heavily from starting my character.
    Your changes to dungeons are increasing grindyness instead of lowering it.

    I'm sorry, but do you want players playing the game? You raised UGC prices, I stopped using UGC. Now you're restricting exp gain from music and fishing, restricting black market and making gear real grindy to get. How is that good for the community?
    HauvenJynnVeremisiaThendriksTeSalveiFantasykittenMiehArSkulderShangheiliEinoand 4 others.
  • HauvenHauven
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 560
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    edited 8:41AM November 29, 2018
    mirta000 wrote: »
    my husband auto played to 60 because he got really bored of the main story.
    I used black market heavily from starting my character.
    Your changes to dungeons are increasing grindyness instead of lowering it.

    I'm sorry, but do you want players playing the game? You raised UGC prices, I stopped using UGC. Now you're restricting exp gain from music and fishing, restricting black market and making gear real grindy to get. How is that good for the community?

    I agree, the epic quest really feels a lot like bouncing around between NPC's. I ended up auto performing from 45 ish I believe, most of the way to 60. I'm saddened that, if these changes go through, that 'due to bots' we'll have to now grind our way through the story content for each new character, especially on a repetitive sense.

    As for UGC, I tried using it once but it's not worth it. I don't even bother using it just to complete the 'guide' mission. I'm not wasting merits on listing an item that 'might' get some buyers.

    I'm considering whether it's time to take a hiatus too, based on the dungeon changes alone.
    mirta000
  • QtzQtz
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    the leveling is one of the most boring i ever had in any games , i made a few friends try the game and most of them stopped after level 20-30 cause it was just running around , i tryed telling them that dungeons are fun , but they did not realy enjoy anything.. kinda normal that when you run around 3 hours and then join a dungeon with 3 bots you are not having fun .

    Pretty sad that the first impression of the game is so bad , since its a fun game one you are done with the stupid story quest

    mirta000iinferno
  • KayshaKaysha
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    Completing Faction Missions will net you Tokens of each Faction you can redeem for various items. Each Faction has a different list of items available so make sure to check each of them. There are Faction specific vanity items like Name Badges, as well as gear progression related items such as Epic gear or Re-Rollers, including the Legendary Armor Bonus Value Re-Rollers.

    I really need to see the reward tables for these new factions. If they give a reasonable way to get epic weapons, then I may just quit on doing hard dungeons all together.
  • CryotronCryotron
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    edited 10:10AM November 29, 2018
    Crevox wrote: »
    Do you just not understand? I am completely in shock that you acknowledged the problem and did nothing to combat it.

    You straight up acknowledged:
    Players will end up running only Temple of Immortals and Lubelisk

    ...and then made zero changes to prevent this from being the case. People STILL have to run these dungeons for weapons in order to enchant their weapons past +10. Even IF you get a good roll on your weapon, or spend time running the last two dungeons to get these new re-roller fragments, this doesn't change the fact you need weapon duplicates to enchant. That is the reason why people have to run Temple of Immortals and Lubelisk. All you did was buff the rewards on the last two dungeons which puts those without enough weapons to enchant even further behind those that already do. Even then, getting these reroller fragments (which you have not explained how many you need, how many drop, etc) is still worse and slower than spamming the weapon dungeon for actual weapons with new stats, unless the value you're giving us is very favorable, but you didn't mention it.

    Not only that, but you made the first two dungeons now completely worthless after you get at least one epic piece each from them. The higher level gearscore dungeon is now objectively better for armor since you can get reroller tickets, and the dungeon variety is reduced again. Are the dungeons not supposed to be equal but simply drop different items? You just broke the design philosophy you created last week.

    You also made the new player experience even harder to level and gear up by doing these RMT changes. Players leveled to 60 easily through fishing and music after level 50, but those options are now nerfed. This wouldn't be a big deal, but you locked the ability to sell items on the black market until level 60, so now players are going to have a hard time making the money to gear up.

    Come on Nexon, this isn't complicated. You're just making things worse and worse for newer players and new characters. The solutions are simple and have already been outlined tons of times by players and you still don't understand your own game.

    This guy nailed it.

    They straight up acknowledge that players will end up running only Temple of Immortals and Lubelisk alongside with overall 50% loot nerf (Not counting frags) and then make some pointless changes that inconvenient players for the sake of "combating meso sellers". If they make the same excuses over and over, not only it won't solve the bot issue but it will suffer the same problem as Diablo 3 did: Nothing will ever able to be traded and the bots will go rampant while inconvenient players. I am still baffled why they aren't using CAPTCHA and enforce with Nexon Security. How asinine.

    I can see enchanting materials such as Onyx Crystals and Crystal Fragments account bound but character bound????? Wat??? And they nerfed the exp gain from Music and Fishing to "combat meso sellers" again... Good thing I leveled all my classes (except Soul Binder and Knight who is lvl 50 atm) to 60 but by the Empress' t!ts they're gonna really turn off players if they end up doing like that.
    People please! Give them a break
    They're trying to improve things and they're still listening to our opinions.
    Proof: Onyx Crystal Changed to Account Bound
    Add rerollers to the dungeon system...This isnt a bad thing at all.
    Crevox wrote: »
    Even IF you get a good roll on your weapon, or spend time running the last two dungeons to get these new re-roller fragments, this doesn't change the fact you need weapon duplicates to enchant. That is the reason why people have to run Temple of Immortals and Lubelisk. All you did was buff the rewards on the last two dungeons which puts those without enough weapons to enchant even further behind those that already do. Even then, getting these reroller fragments (which you have not explained how many you need, how many drop, etc) is still worse and slower than spamming the weapon dungeon for actual weapons with new stats, unless the value you're giving us is very favorable, but you didn't mention it.

    This guy is so negative. These are the BONUS rewards...not some default rewards we''ve had before for you to bash on. Slower ? Excuse me ? Who force you to do it?
    Rerollers are not attribute chaging. For those who keep farming the weapons to enchant +11 up, this doesnt affect you and doesnt FORCE you to run the last two dungeons.
    You can still do 30 dungeons and get 30 weapons like before...just not 30 armor...
    ---- IN EXCHANGE, the diversity of the dungeon is increased a little bit, we got 1 weapon reroller and 5 armor reroller. Not mention that sweet Varrekant''s Horn and Wings farming. But i do agree is that after done with the armors from FD/LAB...it''s not even worth running it. But hey , you will still experience FD and LAB as new players enough then can forget about it.

    THIS ISNT A COMPLETE LOST AT ALL. I mean, what are you thinking? After +15 and farming armors for the rest of your life ?
    You will eventually get stats you need on your armors. Want to upgrade the stats? Use the freaking Rerollers. I bet it will be a lots.Plzzzzzzzz
    Are you expecting to get a good mid-end game armor gear in 1, 2 weeks ?

    These rerollers are also good news for players who got +15 weapon and dream stats on their armor but not high enough.

    BOTTOM LINE, Weapon progression is still the same with 1~2 weapon reroller per week and Varrekant farm.
    Armor lost? They''ve made up for it. Those armor rerollesr are something. It doesnt take long for you to farm armor.

    There is A LOT of truth of what Crevox said. Yes, the weapon reroll is nice but riddle me this: Why would you ever run a dungeon 30 times for a reroll when you can just run the dungeon that drops the loot over and over that grants you enchanting charges anyway...? The rerolls are there for those who already have +15 but have shitty bonus rolls like my assassin so that's nice I guess. At the end of the day, people WILL run Temple of Immortals and Lubelisk, there is absolutely no denying that.

    Plus armor in this game is not really an issue since we get em all the time from any dungeons, dismantle them and get the new one of OUR CHOICE every 4 dismantles. Armor reroller is just an icing on the cake. They pretty much contradicted their game philosophy when it comes to "Dungeon Diversity" when the Dungeons are already diverse as is right now: People are running FD less and more Kandura.

    As for the further things what Crevox said, they're changing things not only for the Hard Dungeons but for players as well. THEY ARE NERFING EXP GAIN FROM MUSIC AND FISHING. Not all of us want to do the story lines OVER and OVER. They're making things a lot of things account/character bound to take away of what things are supposedly be able to be traded. They're making a lot of inconvenient changes for players for the sake of "Combatting Meso Sellers" when in reality they could just use CAPTCHA, why wouldn't you be "so negative"?

    EDIT: They also add the Black Market Requirement for character level 60. GREAT! So Characters in mid 50s can't gear up anymore. Very good change. /s
    mirta000UltimaPiTeSalveiFantasykittenMiehMadokaMagicaShangheiliIonCur
  • CatalystCatalyst
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 1,100
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    Honestly, this change wouldn't be so bad if the Peachy enchantment was so bad. The only reason people are running so many of the same dungeon is because they need weapon copies. The only reason they need weapon copies (besides trying to find great stats) is so that they can enchant their weapons using Ophelia. Because the current method for enchanting with Peachy is so bad that you can fail a multiude of tines with Ophelia and still be better off than with Peachy. I propose both A.) having more ways to get Crystal Ore (a must have for Peachy enchantment, which currently is very limited to get) and B.) greatly reducing the amount of passes/steps needed to successfully enchant a weapon through Peachy (preferably by half). This way, Peachy can be a lot more useful when it comes to enchanting, reducing the need to farm the same weapons for duplicates. Encouraging the use of Peachy may also help players feel less discouraged when they aren't bombarded with enchantment fails, and make them feel like they are actually working towards something.

    Besides that, I am excited to see how Sky Fortress and the addition of PVP spices up endgame content.
    mirta000
  • AcsoulAcsoul
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    Okay, week 8 state of the game please address Gem Dust and Accessory rerollers. Also, we need a way to get VALUE rerollers for all 3 types (Weapon, armor and accessory).
  • LuminaEdgeLuminaEdge
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    Ive been pleasant in my critique and praise for the last few months but i ran out of sugar to put in my tea so...
    After a thorough discussion with the lead designer and the dev studio, we agreed that this new structure is needed for not only the current community but also for future new players to better experience the game with a variety of dungeon content to enjoy

    Your lead designer is being a stubborn fool.

    It really feels like they're trying to stand their ground on their choices out of sheer pride more than the games success.

    I get it. We've been demanding and every compromise has failed.

    But the balance decision to make +14/15 scale extremely high compared to +10 is what created this problem.

    If you guys increased the base dmg of +11 to +13 to reduce the damage gap a lot of players would probably be okay with how hard +14/15 is.

    However its not the case. Once ludi clock tower lands you know whats going to happen?

    People are going to buy chaos clock tower runs. Pay mad meso for it and skip the hellish dungeon grind and aim for getting a legendary weapon that way.

    You're trying to combat bots but decisions like these are gonna make a LOT of people run to them.

    We tried to get you guys to hear us out but its too late. Thats gonna be the new progression arc for most players now.

    All bc of developer pride.

    Good job.

    CryotronTeSalveimirta000FantasykittenMiehKayshaArSkulderCariseiVeremisiaRinnRinn__and 1 other.
  • CryotronCryotron
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    LuminaEdge wrote: »
    Ive been pleasant in my critique and praise for the last few months but i ran out of sugar to put in my tea so...
    After a thorough discussion with the lead designer and the dev studio, we agreed that this new structure is needed for not only the current community but also for future new players to better experience the game with a variety of dungeon content to enjoy

    Your lead designer is being a stubborn fool.

    It really feels like they're trying to stand their ground on their choices out of sheer pride more than the games success.

    I get it. We've been demanding and every compromise has failed.

    But the balance decision to make +14/15 scale extremely high compared to +10 is what created this problem.

    If you guys increased the base dmg of +11 to +13 to reduce the damage gap a lot of players would probably be okay with how hard +14/15 is.

    However its not the case. Once ludi clock tower lands you know whats going to happen?

    People are going to buy chaos clock tower runs. Pay mad meso for it and skip the hellish dungeon grind and aim for getting a legendary weapon that way.

    You're trying to combat bots but decisions like these are gonna make a LOT of people run to them.

    We tried to get you guys to hear us out but its too late. Thats gonna be the new progression arc for most players now.

    All bc of developer pride.

    Good job.

    It's like "You think you do, but you don't" all over again.
    LuminaEdgemirta000QtzFantasykittenMiehCarisei
  • QtzQtz
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    edited 11:15AM November 29, 2018
    Cryotron wrote: »

    It's like "You think you do, but you don't" all over again.


    that is what happens when devlopers belive more in stats then in fun/gameplay .

    Its like blizzard over the years they changes stuff because of stats , but totaly broke classes just because of stats


    "so my data telle me tank warrior should take X% of dmg and paladin Y%" perfect .

    But none of the devlopers actualy played a tank warrior and saw that is plays like with the global cooldown changes , and Bfa changes .

    I mean i played a tanks for over 12000 hours in WoW ( yes over 500 days platime in over 10 years ) dont want a class to be OP , i love the class i want it to be VIABLE and FUN , its not like the feedback we gave in beta was for fun , it was ignored .

    First time in over 10 years i canceld my WoW abo , just because Devs that follow "data / stats" more then actualy listen to people that spend thousand of hours in the game .

    Devloping the game , does not mean understanding it just cause you can read / compare data .



    edit: dont get me wrong MS2 is a great game , but there is a lots of work to do imo , and they are just trying to fix problems are the wrong places .
    Cryotron
  • iinfernoiinferno
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    I appreciate the ongoing effort from the developers but this won't solve the issues with the bots, they will just keep farming lv 50 dungeons and sell everything at once the moment they reach level 60.

    Just put a death limit on these dungeons like 6-8 and a captcha for auto-fishing and queueing and this will cripple the bots. From a new player's POV having to play the epic questline dungeons with bots it's a terrible first impression and may give them a reason not to stick with the game long term.

    Locking trading, black market, world chat, whispers etc... is not a solution IMHO, you already know the source where botters get their mesos so why not go to the root of the problem instead of making changes that inconvenience newcomers?
    Fantasykitten
  • LaforetLaforet
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    edited 1:12PM November 29, 2018
    I doubt we'll be able to discuss gear progression as suggested if we ignore one of its main points, that's it accessory-roll chasing and gem upgrading. Both of them share a simple, yet so hurtful thing in common, the RNG behind B4 keys. Given what I've seen, I don't know what kind of disbalance would cause to buff the drop to something better than a "zero keys in a month, go buy a run" chance.


    There are not many means of getting good ammounts of dust that are not as heavy time gated as buying boxes, but at least the means to get some are there, such as the Toughen Up dailies that can (almost never) reward you with a Level 2 Gemstone and Treva farming, which is quite time consuming but gives you the box for sure. Even with that, B4 seems to be way more reliable for it reward-wise, giving you all of the tools to keep upgrading and getting them.

    Now, getting a reliable supply of value re-rollers for accessories tends to be impossible for more than 90% of the population, which is a great shame taking in account the ammount of different bonuses (many times useless for everyone or for your class) that an accessory can get on top of the many different values these bonuses can get, a thing that spamming bonus rerolls for 200k each (if you try once on each accessory) won’t help with in the slightest.

    The only option to get any is to run a B4 dungeon, which might happen once in a week, in a month, or never depending on your luck if you don’t get a key by orthodox meanings. The other option resides in giving the power to scammers, meso sellers and run/meso buyers and letting them partake on an absurd kind of illegal economic ostracism that doesn’t benefit any legal player in the slightest. Then, I ask, why is it so hard for the devs to even consider modifying the chances of getting a B4 or communicate their thoughts about it?



    I'd like to think this Update was posted to keep talking mainly about the Gear Progression in regards to Hard Dungeons, which seems have been poorly addressed despite the amount of solutions the players gave, but we can’t ignore Treasure Dungeons are also a part of this and its contents seem to be made to be played alongside Hard Dungeons, being the only thing that makes us think otherwise the RNG gated chance to even access them, giving the idea that is some kind of advanced content. I think these concerns should be solved or at least addressed before the next update or we'll spend another whole month discussing about changes while the game keeps suffering the same problems.


    In the end, I’d like to say that despite my concerns about these many problems, the most common already expressed by the rest of replies, I’m glad that devs are trying to get some inputs from us. It just feels… quite strange sometimes? Like, we can read that the staff gave thought to some concerns and addressed them in a certain way, but most of the time we don’t get to know the thought process that led to it, and I’d say getting a grasp of the reason behind your decisions could not only help us to understand you better (and calm a few people if the reasoning makes sense), but to reply accordingly and suggest alternatives that work within your framework and not sound way too outlandish, therefore, ignored.



    Thanks for your time.
    MiehThendriksLicoriceCClericeru
  • Darkpixie99Darkpixie99
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    edited 12:27PM November 29, 2018
    Nexon: So desperate for people to keep playing Maplestory 2 that they hand out free level 50 characters.
    Other games that did the same: Dead after arrival (Wild Star)
    Time to buck up and realized you've got a serious management problem, Nexon!
    Thendriks