Check out the patch notes for the v17 Precursor Update here: http://maplestory2.nexon.net/en/news/article/53778/precursor-update-v17

Inflation/bots needs to be dealt with

BuuuuuutwhYBuuuuuutwhY
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edited 8:43PM November 27, 2018 in General Chat
Everything's so expensive. Epic pets are simply unattainable for 99% of legit players, exceptions being those that get lucky with crafting or catching their own epic. I sell dungeon/raid runs and can't keep up. New players without the gear to sell runs have no consistent meaningful income in this economy. Players new and old are getting frustrated and quitting.

So lets look at where the meso is being added to the economy. These are what I'd consider to be the main culprits:

1) Bots via leveling through the story line and running dungeons. Roughly 2-2.5mil for clicking on quests per character, 2mil from dungeons for doing 30 of them each week.
2) Players with multiple alts doing their dungeons and meso daily missions.

I hear that the sky fortress update adds more dailies for us to do and more opportunities to earn onyx. Onyx is great but if the dailies also reward mesos it's only going to exacerbate the issue.

I'd propose halving the mesos given throughout the questline and change the meso rewards from dungeons to give onyx instead. Edit: Or rather than change the meso dungeon rewards to onyx, limit the meso rewards to hard dungeons only, since bots have difficulty doing them. The onyx could even be tradeable, just so long as rewards given for these activities is no longer adding mesos into the economy. Meso daily missions are too complicated for bots to handle so I don't personally feel that this aspect needs to be changed but maybe Nexon and the community disagrees. Maybe the meso dailies should reward more to compensate for decrease in mesos given via other aspects of the game. It's about making botting unprofitable, not shitting on poor players.

What are your thoughts on the subject?
CabreraHeimerdinger

Comments

  • CabreraCabrera
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    I think you contradict yourself in some solutions and culprits you provide, you say new players cannot achieve the gear level that others are on without mesos but, you also say mesos from quests/dungeons should be removed. Its basically like the real world, if you remove mesos = it becomes more difficult to farm mesos = value of rarities would double or even increase more than that. Not giving food(mesos) to a hungry dog(newbies) wont make it full(equipped), itll make it more hungry, congratz you solved hunger? No.

    Ideally, the sky fortress update makes Onyx account bound ( Onyx from dailies are still char bound I believe ). I feel this is good, if u keep onyx tradable, the current bot issues stay or get worse but never better, they sell onyx crystals = collect money = sell it for $ thats the issue with bots in the 1st place. Onyx crystals have been bot's main source of $$$ and doing the main quest and dungeon runs are just spare change in comparison to how much they would get from selling onyx and the 1x Reset only makes it worse. If you make players more independent and allow them to have sufficient onyx to go by (14k per dailies is ALOT) it should be good to beat the large part of the bot issues.

    But this is a good start to thinking about controlling the inflation, hopefully better ideas can be gathered from your initiative although reducing the meso reward will literally hurt the newbies even more. They already have to deal with "FD>6k+ GS only" and whatnot for HD runs and being more poor only makes it worse.
    Although I feel like prices are pretty fair, Highest end game items deserve to be puffed up to that pricing, imagine getting legendary gear for say 1-2m or Varre/ROG wings for 1-3m, whats the point in the economy even existing then. All end game items are pretty puffed up in price IF they are buyable.
    FrostZzOneConfusedMilletian
  • VisualFxxVisualFxx
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    I've pointed this out multiple times and the biggest issue here honestly is the LACK of any force from the GM's in the game. Even Ms1 when it first started out had GM's walking around invisible mode *I know cause I was banned once lmao* he whispered me and asked how I got them to work and where from. In this game there is 0 presence of dev's/gm's/mods anything, anyone period. So the bots don't even try to hide they just blatantly walk around doing whatever they want. Then we get the dev's telling us we're banning 10's of thousands! Like THAT MATTERS I mean seriously as a person with some exp in this field of editing/changing memory values and bypass es I can assure you that making 100's of new accounts in just a few minutes takes almost 0 effort honestly. This game being free to play especially makes this a huge problem because nothing stops people from just making more accounts. They need to start putting some people are Jr GM's or start hiring at least a few people to actually SHOW a presence in the game and DO something. They have seen how much the bots have bombed this game into the ground but yet THEY WAIT for 1-2-3 weeks before releasing a patch WORTH anything that actually stops them for a day or two. BUT THATS the problem isnt it? Hackers will always find a way through which is why maybe IP bans, or putting some GM presence in game is 100% necessary. Every new player that has little to no nostalgia has probably quit this game already or getting ready to quit REAL soon. The economy is completely fked , the BOTS are everywhere, quest areas, dung runs, playing the market, farming pets. Theres no motivation for new players to WANT to stick around it just looks like an mmo thats been out for a few years and the dev's just gave up on trying to fix the bots/hacks. Half of them can't get into parties without using the party search feature and manually looking for people because if you que up normally you just get thrown in with the 5000 bots that run it day in and day out. Honestly in the end the meso/money isn't even a problem it's this companies HORRID security system. This is why since MS1 beta this game has been riddled with hacks and bots
    DanDK
  • SabeiSabei
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    Inflation is only a small part of it. Anything with high value has that value because top end players who are making tens of millions daily can afford it and find these items/services highly valuable. Even if there was a magic switch to permanently delete all bots from the game B4 costs would continue to grow as they have been(in the past week alone the price has nearly doubled on USEast and it's only going to go higher) and epic pets would still be worth over 100m. These are very, very limited and anyone ahead of the curve is capable of making more than enough money to cover those costs while a vast majority of the playerbase is constantly playing catch-up.
    LockeExile
  • VisualFxxVisualFxx
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    edited 1:22AM November 27, 2018
    Sabei wrote: »
    Inflation is only a small part of it. Anything with high value has that value because top end players who are making tens of millions daily can afford it and find these items/services highly valuable. Even if there was a magic switch to permanently delete all bots from the game B4 costs would continue to grow as they have been(in the past week alone the price has nearly doubled on USEast and it's only going to go higher) and epic pets would still be worth over 100m. These are very, very limited and anyone ahead of the curve is capable of making more than enough money to cover those costs while a vast majority of the playerbase is constantly playing catch-up.

    These will not continue to go up in price...Have you played Kms/Cms? You should know about future content although some will be altered obviously. But I can assure you those prices will drop severely. Especially pet pricing lmao that's going to plummet heavy after December. Supply and demand. Only reason pets were that high was because the top tier players told everyone "don't worry about pets useless" so that cost about 2-3 weeks of pet farming for majority of the playerbase who has NOT played KMS/CMS before. Then the few that are getting lucky and the top tier with the good snares get to make a huge profit. Majority of the problem of why people can't make no damn money is because they don't spend time merching and playing the market or doing the things in the game that ACTUALLY are worth investing time into. Which most of that IS NOT dungeon based believe it or not. As the community begins to catch up though the prices will level out and drop down. It's the same for any game unless it's absolute end game gear and no plans for more after. But since we know this version isn't close to being fully pushed out just yet you can expect these prices to go down by a big margin. Without playing any other version that's just basic economical sense.

    Also your top tier player comment is funny because a lot of them just buy meso or bot/hack. I have a post about one of the guys who runs a guild where he was selling his priest account and had all his stats up on this forum for bad things ;) which I used to use on the old MS. So trust me that I'm not just little nub cake angry about the elitists I've just got a few of them red handed so I know this for a fact. Plus I have no room to complain I have 3 chars at 5.5k+ so trust me I'm not jealous of them, just exposing. Hopefully Nexon will take that other post and use it for something useful like a ban ffs. So I wouldn't say they just got the money to buy those expensive items, some of them do cause they know how to merch and play market BUT most of them botted.
  • SabeiSabei
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    VisualFxx wrote: »
    These will not continue to go up in price...Have you played Kms/Cms? You should know about future content although some will be altered obviously. But I can assure you those prices will drop severely. Especially pet pricing lmao that's going to plummet heavy after December.
    They're going to continue to rise until they outlive their usefulness or other things are introduced which make them more widely available or outright replace what they provide. The point remains; anything with high value has that value for a reason, especially when it comes to content that offers character power.
  • OlujiwanOlujiwan
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    While I agree there is a lot of inflation due to bots, (and can confirm they are working hard at Nexon to try and find the best and quickest solution), the endgame gear you are talking about barely see an influence from anything other than elite/hardcore players. That's how any MMO works and always will work.

    Giving more means to farm the currency needed to purchase said endgame gear, will only raise its prize even further.
  • BeariieBeariie
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    edited 9:21AM November 27, 2018
    Honestly still confused about this whole inflation thing as it seems backwards.

    If bots are farming items and selling them for mesos then that means high quality of items, meaning if you want your stuff sold, you undercut or they undercut.

    How are bots the issue if removing them means items would be more rare to find, making prices go up.

    It only seems like a issue for those that want to get these rare items to sell them for high prices. Otherwise it does more good then bad for new players coming into the game.
    Naho
  • VisualFxxVisualFxx
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    Olujiwan wrote: »
    While I agree there is a lot of inflation due to bots, (and can confirm they are working hard at Nexon to try and find the best and quickest solution), the endgame gear you are talking about barely see an influence from anything other than elite/hardcore players. That's how any MMO works and always will work.

    Giving more means to farm the currency needed to purchase said endgame gear, will only raise its prize even further.

    I think the real issue is that the elite/end game players are funded by most of those bot accounts or have bought mesos. That's the problem we're having in the community right now is that the hacks are so readily available and it's pretty apparent that a lot of people have purchased or botted mesos. You can deny it if you want but I've made posts about it only to have them locked for calling people out which I understand the want to not defame anyone but if they are hacking or botting I don't see the issue with calling them out. That being beside the point, everyone knows the elites have alternate methods of making mesos outside of the game itself, someones running the bots after all correct? So this means those end game items are heavily altered in price by those at the top. Because they can afford to reroll stats as much as they see fit and buy all the stellar glass on every alt and just overall do everything that requires an absurd amount of mats/mesos in a fraction of the time a legit player takes to do it. Are some of them legit? Well of course, some are smart and know how to merch and play the market well.
    Also I can't get over " the endgame gear you are talking about barely see an influence from anything other than elite/hardcore players. That's how any MMO works and always will work." Are you serious right now? Literally every MMO INCLUDING YOUR OWN MAPLESTORY 1 was completely run off of botters and hackers. Anyone who had ever played that game will tell you about the endless channels of vac hackers or god mode users just casually walking around doing what they please. The amount of fly hackers that would just zoom around town just to show off. At least in MS1 eventually it got to the point where they TRIED to hide in MS2 they literally just run around with no fear cause there's no presence. I mean your own history of this company reflects the fact that it's been dominated by hackers almost always.

    Now I'm sorry if all this seems hateful in some way to you but as a player since ms1 beta I just feel heavily disrespected when we point out the issues and we get a half hearted answer like this that doesn't even make sense because it's contradictory to everything we've seen so far in any Nexon game.
    Meso_Man
  • iinfernoiinferno
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    Beariie wrote: »
    Honestly still confused about this whole inflation thing as it seems backwards.

    If bots are farming items and selling them for mesos then that means high quality of items, meaning if you want your stuff sold, you undercut or they undercut.

    How are bots the issue if removing them means items would be more rare to find, making prices go up.

    It only seems like a issue for those that want to get these rare items to sell them for high prices. Otherwise it does more good then bad for new players coming into the game.

    Thats not really how it works. New players looking to farm mesos to catch up can't do it anymore at this point, bots have taken over many resources available that newbies could use to make money... potion solvents, pets, onyx, some epic drops etc.... Dropping their prices to the ground, sure you might be buying them cheaper which is good for you, but the moment bots also get to your money making method and take over it you'll understand.

    Farming this stuff is not profitable anymore for a real person, you can't compete with hundreds of bots that are there 24/7 leaving new people with 2 options, either quit or go buy mesos from these websites.

    This may sound exaggerated but what these botting/meso selling websites are doing is basically a form of extortion charging you real money for something that was intended to be free and accessible to players.


    BuuuuuutwhY
  • BeariieBeariie
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    iinferno wrote: »
    Beariie wrote: »
    Honestly still confused about this whole inflation thing as it seems backwards.

    If bots are farming items and selling them for mesos then that means high quality of items, meaning if you want your stuff sold, you undercut or they undercut.

    How are bots the issue if removing them means items would be more rare to find, making prices go up.

    It only seems like a issue for those that want to get these rare items to sell them for high prices. Otherwise it does more good then bad for new players coming into the game.

    Thats not really how it works. New players looking to farm mesos to catch up can't do it anymore at this point, bots have taken over many resources available that newbies could use to make money... potion solvents, pets, onyx, some epic drops etc.... Dropping their prices to the ground, sure you might be buying them cheaper which is good for you, but the moment bots also get to your money making method and take over it you'll understand.

    Farming this stuff is not profitable anymore for a real person, you can't compete with hundreds of bots that are there 24/7 leaving new people with 2 options, either quit or go buy mesos from these websites.

    This may sound exaggerated but what these botting/meso selling websites are doing is basically a form of extortion charging you real money for something that was intended to be free and accessible to players.


    Thing is, new players will never catch up when it comes to farming mesos, for the reasons that they are capped daily. They cant no life to catch up if needed, they will always be behind by X amount of time.

    I feel like even if the bots weren't doing it, the players themselves would be doing the same thing, since supply and demand. Things would seem more rare so youl have to spend more to get a item. Meaning a new player would just be in a worse predicament since there would be less items more pricier.
  • iinfernoiinferno
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    Beariie wrote: »
    iinferno wrote: »
    Beariie wrote: »
    Honestly still confused about this whole inflation thing as it seems backwards.

    If bots are farming items and selling them for mesos then that means high quality of items, meaning if you want your stuff sold, you undercut or they undercut.

    How are bots the issue if removing them means items would be more rare to find, making prices go up.

    It only seems like a issue for those that want to get these rare items to sell them for high prices. Otherwise it does more good then bad for new players coming into the game.

    Thats not really how it works. New players looking to farm mesos to catch up can't do it anymore at this point, bots have taken over many resources available that newbies could use to make money... potion solvents, pets, onyx, some epic drops etc.... Dropping their prices to the ground, sure you might be buying them cheaper which is good for you, but the moment bots also get to your money making method and take over it you'll understand.

    Farming this stuff is not profitable anymore for a real person, you can't compete with hundreds of bots that are there 24/7 leaving new people with 2 options, either quit or go buy mesos from these websites.

    This may sound exaggerated but what these botting/meso selling websites are doing is basically a form of extortion charging you real money for something that was intended to be free and accessible to players.


    Thing is, new players will never catch up when it comes to farming mesos, for the reasons that they are capped daily. They cant no life to catch up if needed, they will always be behind by X amount of time.

    I feel like even if the bots weren't doing it, the players themselves would be doing the same thing, since supply and demand. Things would seem more rare so youl have to spend more to get a item. Meaning a new player would just be in a worse predicament since there would be less items more pricier.

    Things would be as rare as they were intended to be, you get all this supply right now because of bots and it wasn't suppossed to be like this. New players' priority shouldn't be potion solvents for example but they could sell that in order to buy something else like onyx to upgrade their equipment.

    Also even if they whole server agreed to farm something the amount of supply wouldn't even be close to what hundreds of bots are doing farming them 24/7.

    I'll say again, bots have taken over many money making methods that were suppossed to be used by players.

    Maybe players cannot catch up to someone who has farmed his/her perfects stats but with a sustainable source of money they can surely be getting into raids sooner or later.

    Only valid reason to let bots run rampant is so you can buy stuff for cheap which may help YOU short term but will kill the game for everyone, so yes bots need to be dealt with as OP says.



  • StellaeoraStellaeora
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    edited 4:11PM November 27, 2018
    Potion solvents have gone up to 14,000 each on NAW, a record high. Epic pets are totally RNG but are mostly a question of time and initial investment, you are almost guaranteed to catch at least one epic pet before you end up spending more than 100m on snares (~8000 snares), thus turning a tidy profit as long as you can put in the time.

    I'd say things are fine for newer players. The economy is in a decent place right now.
  • iinfernoiinferno
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    Stellaeora wrote: »
    The economy is in a decent place right now.

    For those buying mesos obviously since you get everything for dirt cheap, also i put potion solvents as an "example" pay attention next time when reading.

    Catching epic pets is like playing the lottery, you may get one once or twice but thats not a reliable way of making mesos lmao. BTW you are not even considering the costs of candies which takes around 1200+ average per 100 pets so 100M becomes 200M really easy.

    People with bad RNG will be catching pets at a loss unless they get really lucky and the epic drops with high piercing and other good bonuses.

    You can't even sell onyx anymore at a decent price because there are multiple stacks of 100k onyx in the black market. Also if you wanted to unbind your onyx you can't anymore ( at least in my server ) since bots have bought most of the gloves/shoes leaving only those that are 150k+.

    Sorry but you either buy mesos yourself and want to keep doing so for a cheap price or are in denial about the situation.

  • BeariieBeariie
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    iinferno wrote: »
    Beariie wrote: »
    iinferno wrote: »
    Beariie wrote: »
    Honestly still confused about this whole inflation thing as it seems backwards.

    If bots are farming items and selling them for mesos then that means high quality of items, meaning if you want your stuff sold, you undercut or they undercut.

    How are bots the issue if removing them means items would be more rare to find, making prices go up.

    It only seems like a issue for those that want to get these rare items to sell them for high prices. Otherwise it does more good then bad for new players coming into the game.

    Thats not really how it works. New players looking to farm mesos to catch up can't do it anymore at this point, bots have taken over many resources available that newbies could use to make money... potion solvents, pets, onyx, some epic drops etc.... Dropping their prices to the ground, sure you might be buying them cheaper which is good for you, but the moment bots also get to your money making method and take over it you'll understand.

    Farming this stuff is not profitable anymore for a real person, you can't compete with hundreds of bots that are there 24/7 leaving new people with 2 options, either quit or go buy mesos from these websites.

    This may sound exaggerated but what these botting/meso selling websites are doing is basically a form of extortion charging you real money for something that was intended to be free and accessible to players.


    Thing is, new players will never catch up when it comes to farming mesos, for the reasons that they are capped daily. They cant no life to catch up if needed, they will always be behind by X amount of time.

    I feel like even if the bots weren't doing it, the players themselves would be doing the same thing, since supply and demand. Things would seem more rare so youl have to spend more to get a item. Meaning a new player would just be in a worse predicament since there would be less items more pricier.

    Things would be as rare as they were intended to be, you get all this supply right now because of bots and it wasn't suppossed to be like this. New players' priority shouldn't be potion solvents for example but they could sell that in order to buy something else like onyx to upgrade their equipment.

    Also even if they whole server agreed to farm something the amount of supply wouldn't even be close to what hundreds of bots are doing farming them 24/7.

    I'll say again, bots have taken over many money making methods that were suppossed to be used by players.

    Maybe players cannot catch up to someone who has farmed his/her perfects stats but with a sustainable source of money they can surely be getting into raids sooner or later.

    Only valid reason to let bots run rampant is so you can buy stuff for cheap which may help YOU short term but will kill the game for everyone, so yes bots need to be dealt with as OP says.



    Bots are pretty much doing the hard work players dont have to do now. If it keeps the prices down then there is no need to go through all these hoops to earn enough for a rare drop. Its better that the way it was inteded to be is not how it is now cause then there would be more backlash. You would have those who couldnt buy their way through the ranks up nexon's butt along with the ones who cat handle the rng.

    The way it is now, its actually way better then it would be if the bots werent present.

    Im not one to defend bots in any game but to say that the community would be better off now, is not a wise decision. Meso sellers are the only issue I see right now for the game as a whole, bots, not so much. Nexon needs to focus on other things first then bots.
  • CalindelCalindel
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    Its not the bots inflating prices, bots lower prices.

    You can thank the release of the chaos raids for the absolute destruction of the economy. The raids are the one and only reason that people now want 6 million for a B4 run or 175 million for an epic pet.

    You have the usual suspects preying on the rest of the player base selling nonstep cdev bussing 24/7 and printing their own money.
  • BuuuuuutwhYBuuuuuutwhY
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    edited 8:24PM November 27, 2018
    Calindel wrote: »
    Its not the bots inflating prices, bots lower prices.

    You can thank the release of the chaos raids for the absolute destruction of the economy. The raids are the one and only reason that people now want 6 million for a B4 run or 175 million for an epic pet.

    You have the usual suspects preying on the rest of the player base selling nonstep cdev bussing 24/7 and printing their own money.

    You and just about every other person commenting in this thread are missing the fundamentals of inflation. Selling potions solvents, onyx, B4's, epic pets or runs between players doesn't "print" money. Money is created from activities such as leveling a character and weekly rewards for doing dungeons. There is more money being introduced to the economy via these activities than is being removed via ingame gold sinks, resulting in inflation. To stop inflation you either increase the gold sinks or limit the money entering the economy. There are already plenty of gold sinks in the game, thus the issue is money entering the economy. Bots.

    Less money overall = lower prices.
  • SherriSherri
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    This game has been out for like 2 months and the inflation is already this bad? Of course it needs to be dealt with, I'm in full agreement but how? :c
    BuuuuuutwhY
  • BuuuuuutwhYBuuuuuutwhY
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    Sherri wrote: »
    This game has been out for like 2 months and the inflation is already this bad? Of course it needs to be dealt with, I'm in full agreement but how? :c

    Nexon has got to look at how bots are printing mesos and change the game so that's no longer possible, or at the very least unappealing for them to do so. I would hope that Nexon has already been discussing this subject and have plans to deal with this soon, but I don't believe that they've mentioned inflation in their recent state of the game blogs.
  • iinfernoiinferno
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    Calindel wrote: »
    Its not the bots inflating prices, bots lower prices.

    You've come to a great conclusion, so every player might aswell start botting because :
    1- Bots dont get banned.
    2-They keep prices low while at the same time profit for not doing anything XD, so everyone benefits.

    As for bots printing more mesos that is not stopping anytime soon just go check multiple channels on evansville and other cities where you can see dozens of bots stacked up abusing auto-fishing, then same bots queue to dungeons to get even more money by running them, dismantling gear and selling epic drops.

    They are completely out of control and the fact that only a few people have noticed it's impressive and at the same time suggests that this won't be fixed anytime soon.

  • MentalOmegaMentalOmega
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    Olujiwan wrote: »
    While I agree there is a lot of inflation due to bots, (and can confirm they are working hard at Nexon to try and find the best and quickest solution), the endgame gear you are talking about barely see an influence from anything other than elite/hardcore players. That's how any MMO works and always will work.

    Giving more means to farm the currency needed to purchase said endgame gear, will only raise its prize even further.

    It think it would be better with those basic changes:

    A) Crystal price from 1000 to 250 (same for pet candy)
    B) Reduced price on vendor potions and food items
    C) Reduced housing price from 20 milion to 5 (no1 buys it, but with reduced price people would actuly start spending hard earned messos for this)
    D) Remove meso price from crafting or reduce it greatly (some items are to much risk to be sold and you may end up in loss)
    E) Allow trap materials to be purchased from vendors (reducing the need for bots to farm that material), but make it a little more expensive so people will still farm (but make traps unselleable)
    F) Add a fishing bag and make those fish vendorable or useable in crafting
    G) Add a donation button at queenstown concert area so us poor musicians can make some money
    H) Add a onyx crafting recepte that can be sold to other players
    I) Change money daily rewards to 1 character per account. This will reduce the meso gain by a lot.
    J) Reduce the key b1/b4 opening to 10k, but limit it to 30 max a week. (also add a option to merge 10 keys into b4 key for like 250.00)
    K) Pets --) when giving a xp to your pet, there should be a chance its rarity may go up (and i just killed 100 milion epic pet market, reducing the potentinal buyers for messos)
    L) Update your rules where its not allowed to sell dungeon runs for messos or any other ingame currency (like crystal or onyx) and make those players reporteable
    M) Increase the chance of a hat spawning in world -- this will make people go out more looking for them and increase the rewards a little (bots are not that smart to look for them)
    N) Make gold chests more rare and better rewarding (but adjust star achivment system to lesser ones).
    O) Add a rare spawning monsters on map that can show anywhere and will spawn when a lot of monsters are killed (make them worth farming by having good drops, like unique pets, gear, junk)
    P) Reward players who report bots with red merets (more players reporting = less bots = companys who run bots start losing a lot of money), but punish those who are reporting real players. (or they are a bot reporting other bots)

    And probaly more.
    I guess those changes that i just wrote should at least fix some problems. While they are not 100% resistant to bots, they do make their job worse.