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Enchantment help.

YitzhakYitzhak
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in General Chat
I'm at weapon +9, and the chance is 40%, I wonder, who is better to use, and when?
Peachy or Opheila?
Because if I fail 3times (which with 40% is possible...) at Opheila, its like I did a full enchantment with Peachy.
  1. .26 votes
    1. Peachy
       35% (9 votes)
    2. Opheila
       65% (17 votes)

Comments

  • ZarozianZarozian
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    Go Ophelia if you want to be this guy^

    People are true masochists who don't seem to learn from the first time when dealing with RNG. = w=
    Yitzhak
  • YitzhakYitzhak
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    So what do you suggest me to do?
    what are you doing? and what gear number u at already.
  • YitzhakYitzhak
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    Zarozian wrote: »

    Go Ophelia if you want to be this guy^

    People are true masochists who don't seem to learn from the first time when dealing with RNG. = w=

    god damn that video killed me xD
    99% and failed... I don't see him winning any jackpot in his lifetime.
  • XenociderOmegaXenociderOmega
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    Yitzhak wrote: »
    Zarozian wrote: »

    Go Ophelia if you want to be this guy^

    People are true masochists who don't seem to learn from the first time when dealing with RNG. = w=

    god damn that video killed me xD
    99% and failed... I don't see him winning any jackpot in his lifetime.

    Wow
  • JazipcJazipc
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    Just a note, I failed about 10 times on a 60% chance of success and got it the first time on 30%
    Zarozian
  • AliceWhatAliceWhat
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    You have 40, 64 and 78,4% chance for it to be successful after trying 1,2 and 3 times with 40% chance each.
  • SaranethSaraneth
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    I feel the % chance it shows is a complete lie.
    Zarozian
  • KewkkyKewkky
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    Don't let Zarozian convince you to try the worse option. This is not a joke, Ophelia is OBJECTIVELY better. If you need me to explain why, reply to this and I'll make a post detailing the reasons.
  • YitzhakYitzhak
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    edited 10:01PM November 3, 2018
    Kewkky wrote: »
    Don't let Zarozian convince you to try the worse option. This is not a joke, Ophelia is OBJECTIVELY better. If you need me to explain why, reply to this and I'll make a post detailing the reasons.

    Will love to hear why, cause as of now, I failed 3times with Opheila trying to make +10, which costed same if I did Peachy.
    maybe at later stage Opheila is worth it, but till +10?
    Zarozian
  • DarrithDarrith
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    Saraneth wrote: »
    I feel the % chance it shows is a complete lie.

    Just because you have bad luck doesn’t mean it’s a lie. Math is pretty simple if you know how it works.
  • SaranethSaraneth
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    Darrith wrote: »
    Saraneth wrote: »
    I feel the % chance it shows is a complete lie.

    Just because you have bad luck doesn’t mean it’s a lie. Math is pretty simple if you know how it works.

    This coming from the person having a cry in another post. Saying they are gonna quit and aren't having fun because they failed going to +13 several time. What a child.
    Nimio
  • DarrithDarrith
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    Saraneth wrote: »
    Darrith wrote: »
    Saraneth wrote: »
    I feel the % chance it shows is a complete lie.

    Just because you have bad luck doesn’t mean it’s a lie. Math is pretty simple if you know how it works.

    This coming from the person having a cry in another post. Saying they are gonna quit and aren't having fun because they failed going to +13 several time. What a child.

    I should know better than anyone math is pretty cruel then, but it always remains true, like I said. Just because of bad luck doesn’t mean math’s a lie.

    And you should know better than anyone about bad luck, when you go to sleep alone at night at 31 feeling anxious.
  • SaranethSaraneth
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    edited 5:18AM November 4, 2018
    Darrith wrote: »
    Saraneth wrote: »
    Darrith wrote: »
    Saraneth wrote: »
    I feel the % chance it shows is a complete lie.

    Just because you have bad luck doesn’t mean it’s a lie. Math is pretty simple if you know how it works.

    This coming from the person having a cry in another post. Saying they are gonna quit and aren't having fun because they failed going to +13 several time. What a child.

    I should know better than anyone math is pretty cruel then, but it always remains true, like I said. Just because of bad luck doesn’t mean math’s a lie.

    And you should know better than anyone about bad luck, when you go to sleep alone at night at 31 feeling anxious.

    Just continue being a horrible person. I know you don't know any better. Probably how you were raised. Parents must have been horrible too. I'm so sorry for you that you had to go though that as a child.
    Kugelblitz
  • BakaAnikiBakaAniki
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    Ophelia. Even if you fail it's better for you since you'll gain stacks which will be useful later on. Better fail now than later since it will requires way more materials just for a stack.
  • ZarozianZarozian
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    Kewkky wrote: »
    Don't let Zarozian convince you to try the worse option. This is not a joke, Ophelia is OBJECTIVELY better. If you need me to explain why, reply to this and I'll make a post detailing the reasons.

    You can't keep people fooled forever you know. ;>

    My strong sense of JUSTISU, compels me to tell them the truth! ;O
  • KatsKats
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 4,590
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    Zarozian wrote: »
    Kewkky wrote: »
    Don't let Zarozian convince you to try the worse option. This is not a joke, Ophelia is OBJECTIVELY better. If you need me to explain why, reply to this and I'll make a post detailing the reasons.

    You can't keep people fooled forever you know. ;>

    My strong sense of JUSTISU, compels me to tell them the truth! ;O

    All you're doing is spreading false information.
    Kewkky
  • KewkkyKewkky
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    edited 2:52PM November 4, 2018
    Yitzhak wrote: »
    Kewkky wrote: »
    Don't let Zarozian convince you to try the worse option. This is not a joke, Ophelia is OBJECTIVELY better. If you need me to explain why, reply to this and I'll make a post detailing the reasons.

    Will love to hear why, cause as of now, I failed 3times with Opheila trying to make +10, which costed same if I did Peachy.
    maybe at later stage Opheila is worth it, but till +10?

    @Yitzhak

    Alright, so let's first start off by listing the qualities of Ophelia's and Peachy's enchant systems:

    Ophelia:
    1) Chance-based, which means that while you could potentially make it by spending minimal materials, you also have a chance of not making it after 10+ tries.
    2) After you reach +10, you're required to use copies of weapons in order to upgrade them (we call them "fodder" weapons). These copies can't be other enchanted weapons; they are required to be unenchanted.
    3) You can use more than the required fodder weapons. If you do, then your success rate increases depending on how many weapons you used. I remember using 4 weapons at +11 brings your success rate to 30%, and the same when using 8 weapons at +13.
    3) When you fail an upgrade, you gain "enchantment charges". For every enchantment charge you use, your success rate increases by 1%. I owned as many as 97 enchantment charges at the same time (this was when I finally reached +14 on my first weapon), but I'm unsure if there's an upper limit. I would assume it's 100.
    * 0 to +4 is 100% success rate. (20/20 chance of success)
    * +4 to +5 is 90% success rate. Failing gives you 1 enchantment charge. (18/20 chance of success)
    * +5 to +6 is 80% success rate. Failing gives you 1 enchantment charge. (16/20 chance of success)
    * +6 to +7 is 70% success rate. Failing gives you 1 enchantment charge. (14/20 chance of success)
    * +7 to +8 is 60% success rate. Failing gives you 1 enchantment charge. (12/20 chance of success)
    * +8 to +9 is 50% success rate. Failing gives you 1 enchantment charge. (10/20 chance of success)
    * +9 to +10 is 40% success rate. Failing gives you 2 enchantment charges. (8/20 chance of success)
    * +10 to +11 is 30% success rate. Failing gives you 3 enchantment charges. Requires 2 fodder weapons, and allows a max of 4 fodder weapons. (6/20 chance of success)
    * +11 to +12 is 20% success rate. Failing gives you 3 enchantment charges. Requires 2 fodder weapons, and allows a max of 4 fodder weapons. (4/20 chance of success)
    * +12 to +13 is 15% success rate. Failing gives you 4 enchantment charges. Requires 3 fodder weapons, and allows a max of 8 fodder weapons. (3/20 chance of success)
    * +13 to +14 is 10% success rate. Failing gives you 4 enchantment charges. Requires 3 fodder weapons, and allows a max of 8 fodder weapons. (2/20 chance of success)
    * +14 to +15 is 5% success rate. Never failed, so unsure how many charges you get. Requires 4 fodder weapons, and allows a max of 16 fodder weapons. (1/20 chance of success)

    Peachy:
    1) Requires incremental upgrades, which means you will never spend more or less than what is required.
    2) The required incremental upgrades increases steadily towards +10, at which point it then scales dramatically, making it unusable as an option. Even on the way to +10, the total materials required are quite hefty compared to Ophelia, but it's a guaranteed enchantment after enough attempts.
    3) Requires crystal fragments up until you reach +9, at which point the materials required then become crystal ores. There is no known method of farming them consistently in the game as of yet, and they are all untradeable and bound to characters.
    4) Unlike Ophelia, it does not provide a system similar to enchantment charges.
    * 0 to +3 requires 1 enchantment. (3 total so far)
    * +3 to +6 requires 2 partial enchants each. (9 total so far)
    * +6 to +9 requires 4 partial enchants each. (21 total so far)
    * +9 to +10 requires 5 partial enchants., and crystal ores start becoming required. (26 total so far)
    * +10 to +11 requires 10 partial enchants. (31 total so far)
    * +11 to +13 requires 40 partial enchants each. (111 total so far)
    * +13 to +14 requires 50 partial enchants. (161 total so far)
    * +14 to +15 requires 100 partial enchants. (261 total)


    So, let's talk about what makes Ophelia better than Peachy. As you can imagine, Chaos Raids have a very hefty GS requirement for you to be able to participate in them. Because of this, it's expected for players to get their weapons to at LEAST +12 (with enchantments in other pieces of equipment). Looking at the journey from +1 to +10, it seems like Peachy's enchant seems best. Instead of dealing with a chance-based upgrade system, you have a surefire path to getting your weapon to +10. Compared side by side though, it seems like Ophelia requires less upgrades before getting to +10, even with potential failures. Ophelia's enchantment rate is at its lowest at +9 -> +10, at which point it's at 40%. That's roughly a 2/5 chance of succeeding, which means a 3/5 chance of failing. For the majority of players, they should be able to increase their weapon from +9 -> +10 after 2.5 enchants. You COULD be lucky and make it after only one try, but you could also be overwhelmingly unlucky and make it after 5+ tries. Not only that, but failing the upgrades guarantees you something you can save up for later, harder enchantments: charges! If you start saving them up from the moment you begin your enchantment journey, you can effectively skip the +14 -> +15 hurdle in the future, which require by far the most materials out of any enchantment system in the game, as well as has the lowest success rate at a 1/20 chance of success. With Peachy, you have NO choice but to do 5 partial enchantments in order to get from +9 to +10. The materials required for each partial charge are half that of Ophelia's enchant attempts, with the exception of the Crystal Ores, which Ophelia never requires. Advancing through Peachy to +10 means you'll spend enough to equal 2.5x Ophelia enchants, which is exactly the same number of enchants required for the norm to advance using Ophelia. Fair warning, though: while it just so happened that the advancement rate matched Ophelia's at this point, it doesn't do so at all points prior to +10, and DEFINITELY does not do so at every single point past +10.

    Moving onto +10 -> +11... Peachy now suddenly doubles the amount of partial enchantments required, while Ophelia only decreases the success rate by 10%, while also replacing crystal fragment requirements with copies of the weapon in question. At this point, Peachy requires materials equivalent to 5 Ophelia enchantments before advancing to +11, with the exception of Crystal ores. At this point, it's still reasonable to use Peachy, as the materials don't differ that much from Ophelia. The downside of doing this is that you pass up on opportunities to gather enchantment charges, which will save you a hell of a headache later on.

    Once we hit the +11 -> +12 mark (which is also where the guy in the video tried his luck and failed), Peachy stops being an option for anyone sane. While Ophelia ONLY drops her success rate by 10% and doesn't change anything else, Peachy all of a sudden requires 40 (FORTY!!) partial enchants before getting you to +12. We don't even HAVE enough crystal ores in the game yet to pass a Peachy enchant on an epic weapon to +12, let alone anything above that or even legendaries! This right here is the reason why Zarozian's linked video and post are misleading: the person in question is upgrading an ASCENDANT weapon from +11 to +12, which is a rarity even higher than legendary, which also means that his required materials are exponentially higher than ours with our measly epic equips. I'm unsure of the methods of obtaining crystal ores in their version of the game, but considering the person opted for an Ophelia enchant, I can safely assume that it's just about the same as in our version, where there's no consistent way to farm them in the large amounts like we can do with onyx crystals and chaos onyx.

    Zarozian's video aside, let's do some calculations. +11 -> +12 requires Peachy's enchants equivalent to 20 Ophelia's, +12 -> +13 requires the equivalent to 20 Ophelia's, +13 -> +14 requires the equivalent to 25 Ophelias, and +14 -> +15 requires the equivalent to 50 Ophelia's. And this is without taking into account the amount of crystal ores required!

    NCXNZCJ.png

    hXPlciE.png

    Just look at how the amount of crystal ores required skyrockets.

    Zarozian's video definitely hurts to watch, which is why you should never enchant something at +14 -> +15 while using fodder weapons and enchantment charges, with the SOLE EXCEPTION being that you have enough materials to get a 100% success rate. Failure to do so is opening the door to potential failure, and failing a 99% like that one guy did means all your hard work over the past few weeks/months will go down the drain if you're unlucky enough. Always weigh the potential consequences if everything goes wrong vs if everything goes right, and if that stroke of bad luck is something you feel like you can shake off, then and ONLY then are you allowed to take that risk.

    So, to answer your original post's question: at +9, feel free to use Ophelia. But keep in mind that every enchantment charge you save WILL help you in the long run. A failure in Ophelia enchants isn't a complete loss, as you get something out of it every time. That one missing enchantment charge could be the difference between passing a 100% success rate at +14 -> +15, or failing at 99%.


    If you have any questions, feel free to ask. I'm a CBT player that gave feedback over Peachy's enchant system being useless post +10, but the devs didn't take my feedback to heart and now it's just as useless as ever.
    XtonyYitzhakKhalyk
  • NaishoDayoNaishoDayo
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    edited 2:03PM November 4, 2018
    Kewkky wrote: »
    Yitzhak wrote: »
    Kewkky wrote: »
    Don't let Zarozian convince you to try the worse option. This is not a joke, Ophelia is OBJECTIVELY better. If you need me to explain why, reply to this and I'll make a post detailing the reasons.

    Will love to hear why, cause as of now, I failed 3times with Opheila trying to make +10, which costed same if I did Peachy.
    maybe at later stage Opheila is worth it, but till +10?

    Alright, so let's first start off by listing the qualities of Ophelia's and Peachy's enchant systems:

    snip

    Sounds about right. On average and more often than not, Ophelia is the cheaper option. Only time you would go with Peachy is when you don't believe in the RNG goddess and just want to spend premium to guarantee success.
  • LeilafiLeilafi
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    Peach, though more expensive, guarantees you progression.
    Why not use her when you're not able to move on with luck?
  • hiphip
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    Leilafi wrote: »
    Peach, though more expensive, guarantees you progression.
    Why not use her when you're not able to move on with luck?

    Because she just costs waaaay too much in comparison to Ophelia. After +10 the success rate is essentially 30% (if you add extra sacrificial weapons you can bump it to a cap of 30, along with enchantment charges gained from previous fails it can go higher). With a probability of 30% you'd be expected to succeed an enchant in an average of 3.33 tries. So you can multiply Ophelia's material costs by 3.33 and that's the average you'd be expected to pay up for each trial. Versus Peachy, after +10 you need to pay her 10x, 40x, 100x times just to go up 1 level (as Kewkky explained very well). Guaranteed to succeed sure, overall the amount of materials she asks for is EXTREMELY high and less viable, even if you fail a few times with Ophelia.

    At +10>11, the probability that you would end up paying more materials to Ophelia than Peachy (because of RNG failing you) is about 8%. At +14>15, you'd basically have to fail 50 times with Ophelia to end up paying more to her than you would have to Peachy. The probability of that? So low I'm not even going to calculate it.

    Ophelia > Peachy it's all in the math B)