May 27th is finally upon us. Please feel free to join us on the last day as the servers come down one by one. More details here: http://forums.maplestory2.nexon.net/discussion/46192
MapleStory 2's servers will be officially closing on May 27th: http://maplestory2.nexon.net/en/news/article/56486/service-discontinuation

No Real Linear Progression Methods Outside Of Caps

TeleTele
MapleStory 2 Rep: 1,150
Posts: 52
Member
edited 4:18PM November 8, 2018 in Suggestions and Feedback
Good Evening Nexon,
IGN - Tele
Server - NAE

consecutive fail count @: 41 as of 2018/11/04
consecutive fail count @: 47 as of 2018/11/07
consecutive fail count @: 49 as of 2018/11/08

This has to a bug.. Its almost humanely impossible to fail anything 47 times back to back.


The sum of this post is to make peachy relevant and her resources, crystal ores specifically, farm-able outside of dungeons.
It is not suggesting the removal of weekly caps.


Don't give us easy progression, give us hard progression that's worth grinding for, and actually farm-able.
At this point spending week's of effort to have your time decided whether its been wasted or not by RNG is a game-flaw in many eyes.



Reddit post proving that weekly cap's render peachy useless:
https://www.reddit.com/r/MapleStory2/comments/9uuc6c/save_peachy_my_luck_is_1_in_3333_come_check_it_out/

Summed up:

Average 100% Peachy Upgrade: 50-60 Weeks
+12 to +13: 38.83 Weeks worth of Crystal Ore
+13 to +14: 45.5 Weeks worth of Crystal Ore
+14 to +15: 121.3 Weeks worth of Crystal Ore

Average 100% Ophelia Upgrade at ANY Level : 6-9 Weeks depending on RNG




IF YOU PLAN ON COMMENTING WITHOUT READING THE POST, LEAVE.

I hate the RNG upgrade system with a passion, but the solution isn't complaining about it or begging Nexon to fix something as esoteric as your 'bad luck'..
this so much this, this is all I want... rng based progression is the worst feeling. if Mr.NoLife plays 10x as much as me let him get 10x the progress... but being 10x behind Mr. Lucky even though I put in more time or effort feels so bad I don't even wantto play
Reddit Quote; whatsthatrekt says - This is a legitimate problem. A lot of people won’t empathize with you because they’ve already gotten theirs and had good luck—this time around. But wait until a similar streak of bad luck befalls them for legendary weapons, which require even more mats. Then they’ll understand.
'Add your own in the comments if you have any suggestions or feedback'

Other than that, you can find all the information below.


Reality

In any game, it is impossible to maintain a gap between players.
The concept of limiting the dungeons to keep casual players and hardcore players at the same level is realisitic.
However, now you're building a gap based off RNG rather than the abilities of players themselves.
Creating a goal that's unreachable by pure effort.
you end up creating an even larger amount of frustration for the people who have to accept the idea that they're 'Just Plain Unlucky'.

I've been recommended by GM's to farm B4 runs.
Why I object;
My friend Extinct a 6k GS NAE Sin has run 10 B4's and has not received one Crystal Ore drop. I consider this guys RNG to be godly.
B4 Keys on NAE = usually more than 1.5M a slot. I've heard from other servers we also have really cheap prices for things.
for example, NAE Onyx Crystal is roughly 400-500 as NAW is roughly 700-850
These dungeons are by no means a farm for Crystal Ore.
Discovering a B4 key is also a feat itself.
If B4 keys were not rare, they wouldn't cost 2m per party slot.
They are also limited to 10 a day.
For these reason's farming Crystal Ore's through B4's is not relevant.
Thus hardly impacting the overall time factor of Peachy's average upgrades.



Reason for believing the enhancement table is actually broken

There is another RNG system in the game that you can use to test your luck and it is the Card Dealing system available to players in their homes.

If you type Without brackets
/Add card [name(win in this case)] 17
/Add card [name(loss in this case)] 83
you technically 'simulate' the process of going through an enhancement without using materials.

Now I've tried to do this in my house and very VERY rarely do I see more than 10 fails back to back. which makes me wonder why I'm failing 30+ or more on my weapons.


The Fix List + Some Info

Thank you for reading up until this point whether or not you've chosen to understand this struggle many players are facing.

The fixes I will be talking about are purely CONSISTENCY fixes that allow players to grind and maintain pace with their friends who have completely out RNG'd them.

Fix 1 - (recommended) Easy to implement and makes peachy relevant without changing too much of the original system.

Make Crystal Ores farm-able.
Self explanatory. This increase in availability would allow people with terrible RNG, but with the willingness to spend time, to use Peachy and not feel like their progression is slowed due to terrible RNG and a Dungeon cap.

The rate for farming Crystal Ore needs to be realistic as well. Something hard but also casual like 250-500 per hour.
(could also be RNG based to keep it from getting repetitive, similar to your meso pouches from dailies).

Create a method similar to Treva Farming for the mount/outfits?
Putting it in a PvP zone might impose issues for lower GS/ATT players but would keep the method difficult.
This would keep the method interesting and still make it competitive if Crystal Ore was a farm-able/trade-able resource.

Or the materials required for the peachy upgrade needs to be severely reduced to make the average 8-12 weeks.
Please don't leave this in the hands of a cap. Players agree on the idea of being able to progress at their own rate.


Fix 2 - Allows your main account to acquire more gear from boxes being transferable

Make Weapon/Armor boxes non-account bound. (Not fragments) - Not realistic or recommended, and makes Ophelia even stronger than Peachy.

Now I understand what you're thinking. "What if people level a character to 50 and use their higher level alts to gear it to the stars in a day".
There isn't anything necessarily wrong with this if you're a HC player who's willing to put in the time to gather the resources and not use them on your main.
It still requires a massive amount of luck to roll godly attributes on pieces of gear which would still make progression with the weekly/daily cap still being a factor.


This will still require people to make 3-4 alts to dungeon daily but it will give them the option if they choose to funnel epics onto a main to tackle your RNG system and ready a single character at least for new-game content.
BananaCatDarrithAmericanWeebMieh

Comments

  • BananaCatBananaCat
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 1,450
    Posts: 54
    Member
    I agree. The virtual slot machine mechanic of equipment is terrible and can be very frustrating more then anything. From Archeage to Dragons nest to Maple story. It is usually the straw that breaks the camels back for many players and makes em quit a eastern port of a modern mmo. For every person that gets frustrated and rage quits, Two more get addicted to the gamble though. So I don't know?

    It really stinks knowing you put in the hard work adventuring. Ground your butt off. Took all the risks you could and still got skunked and won't be ready for raids. ALL FOR NOTHING.

    Would love to see a compromise from Nexon.
    DarrithCaithe
  • TeleTele
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 1,150
    Posts: 52
    Member
    edited 8:51PM November 3, 2018
    BananaCat wrote: »
    I agree. The virtual slot machine mechanic of equipment is terrible and can be very frustrating more then anything. From Archeage to Dragons nest to Maple story. It is usually the straw that breaks the camels back for many players and makes em quit a eastern port of a modern mmo. For every person that gets frustrated and rage quits, Two more get addicted to the gamble though. So I don't know?

    It really stinks knowing you put in the hard work adventuring. Ground your butt off. Took all the risks you could and still got skunked and won't be ready for raids. ALL FOR NOTHING.

    Would love to see a compromise from Nexon.

    Thank you for your thoughts. And believe it or not... On my dads side of my family while re-vising this post and reposting it in general forums. My Great-grand mother passed away at roughly 11:28 PM EST.. (May she rest in peace) Thankfully I can say one thing, it was natural from age... I truly feel like the unluckiest individual on the planet right now...
  • Nanachi_CCCPNanachi_CCCP
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 2,900
    Posts: 280
    Member
    edited 9:27PM November 3, 2018
    RNG is always bad thing when it comes to end-game I m saying that for years because if you see people get best thing ingame on first run it does cheapen the feel of reward when you get it after 5000 and removes sense of progression.
    I much more preffer extreme grind than extreme rng
    In marvel heroes game you would 100% get item X after some crazy number of boss kills like 2000 for example,you could get it by rng in 1. run yes but there was guarantee to get it after x point so very unlucky people do feel progress,it was great idea (fail chance bonus in this game is not same at all because you can not farm bosses here nonstop,just 30 times per week with small chance of getting weapon drop that is MUST for upgrades)

    I failed 40 upgrades in row with 50% chance to upgrade in FPS called survarium,it is not exclusive to this game
    I see in chat someone do +10 to +15 in 5 tries and then i see me doing 11 to 12 for weeks
    RNG is not that bad in games like Diablo3 because you can farm for years non stop,while you can farm dungeons here only 30times per week,giving you no sense of progress if you fail.

    I also failed like 6 times here with 60% chance to upgrade(at lest it was cheap)
    Now I'm gonna try to get from +12 to +13
    Wish me good rng.

    ZarozianTele
  • AcheronsAcherons
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 975
    Posts: 53
    Member
    edited 9:54PM November 3, 2018
    I'm genuinely sorry to hear this. I think we all know how it already feel to fail 5-10 times so i cant imagine what you must've went through.

    RNG can really be a pain at times. Best of luck
  • SaranethSaraneth
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 1,995
    Posts: 129
    Member
    I swear the % chance it shows is wrong.
  • RéstiaRéstia
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 485
    Posts: 7
    Member
    games RNG is whoever designed the Gear score requirements for raids is plain stupid I've never seen a game company that practically tells you, you need a maxed or almost maxed enchanted weapon to enter a stupid Raid specially a casual game with a dungeon limit cap. Even in Korea it was 3200 gear score for first 2 raids and 3600 for the last weapon.
  • Nanachi_CCCPNanachi_CCCP
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 2,900
    Posts: 280
    Member
    Réstia wrote: »
    games RNG is whoever designed the Gear score requirements for raids is plain stupid I've never seen a game company that practically tells you, you need a maxed or almost maxed enchanted weapon to enter a stupid Raid specially a casual game with a dungeon limit cap. Even in Korea it was 3200 gear score for first 2 raids and 3600 for the last weapon.

    Ouch really,i would think korea would want like 8000,as i imagine asian versions to be more grindy.
    I mean,i do sit at 4.5k but not sure how many RNG layers do i need to beat to get to weapon raid that was like 6000 gs or something
  • TeleTele
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 1,150
    Posts: 52
    Member
    edited 10:40PM November 3, 2018
    Réstia wrote: »
    games RNG is whoever designed the Gear score requirements for raids is plain stupid I've never seen a game company that practically tells you, you need a maxed or almost maxed enchanted weapon to enter a stupid Raid specially a casual game with a dungeon limit cap. Even in Korea it was 3200 gear score for first 2 raids and 3600 for the last weapon.

    Ouch really,i would think korea would want like 8000,as i imagine asian versions to be more grindy.
    I mean,i do sit at 4.5k but not sure how many RNG layers do i need to beat to get to weapon raid that was like 6000 gs or something

    Apparently KMS doesn't have a dungeon cap (I've heard) thats why their req's are more intensive. If there wasn't a dungeon cap limiting progression on top of my terrible RNG, I would keep grinding. Without the reality of only having 3-5 chances at upgrades a week at most if I get my weapon every other drop. But being a mathy/technical person all my brain acknowledges is months worth of grinding for one upgrade that still will barely make me pass raid standards. Considering how my luck has rolled out I would basically need to save 100 enchancement charges for both +13 and +14 which would literally take 3 months which by that time Legendary weapons will already be long released. I don't mind working harder than others to achieve something but when my ability to apply that effort is limited by time and I do not have the time to keep up with my friends. Where is the fun in that :(...

    Its really frustrating seeing all of the people you started playing with, and people who joined the game after you whom you've helped all surpass you because of "Luck". There needs to be a better system that allows people to insta-pass certain enhancements at +13 and +14 so they can be raid ready. +15 is a treat and is unnecessary but getting geared for actual in-game content shouldn't rely on such a broken system.
  • gitgudmaN42gitgudmaN42
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 310
    Post: 1
    Member
    Why don't you use the enhancement charges that you have stored up if you want +13 so bad.
    Meso_Man
  • TeleTele
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 1,150
    Posts: 52
    Member
    edited 1:24AM November 4, 2018
    Why don't you use the enhancement charges that you have stored up if you want +13 so bad.

    If you use a significant number of enchantment charges for +13 its an utter waste. Its barely raid significant and considering my RNG now I'd have to build another 60-80 to get to +14 which would actually make me raid sufficient but that will take me another month and at that point people will be rolling legendaries while I'm still stuck trying to upgrade my epic. The fact that I'm portraying is that its hard to accept what you see in the chat box, everyone passing their epics on their first-fifth clicks from 13-15 and I'm stuck on my 25-26th attempt to get +13.

    Your comment doesn't recognize the struggle I'm depicting at all....

    Edit: Also to add, I wouldn't mind using the charges if I was able to grind all day. Its the fact that I only get 4-5 chances a week and I'm failing 30-35 attempts back to back... Do you understand? People who grind games will push out 30-50 hards a day. If they're willing to work for it, reward them.
    Caithe
  • HaliHali
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 1,975
    Posts: 80
    Member
    I feel your pain. I am not at your level of bad luck but with 58 enhancement charges at +11 I'm definitely getting there slowly. I don't really expect a GM or Nexon Employee to say much about this because there is nothing they can say at all. The thing about putting these BS time restrictions on players to "even" the playing field is in reality more uneven then if you could just spam the dungeons. It really is only logical sense that putting more time = getting your reward.

    The people that complain about having unrestricted dungeon limits because they will fall behind are idiots that wouldn't keep this game afloat in the grand scheme of things. You can have 20 casuals playing once a week and compared to you OP they would be a worthless, free loading, leech that companies need to not value the complaints they make at all.

    Personally OP I would insist on quitting the game since it is rather clear that working hard gets you nowhere here and Nexon would prefer to slow you down hard with RNG so that the freeloaders can feel good about themselves.
    TeleDarrith
  • TeleTele
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 1,150
    Posts: 52
    Member
    Hali wrote: »
    I feel your pain. I am not at your level of bad luck but with 58 enhancement charges at +11 I'm definitely getting there slowly. I don't really expect a GM or Nexon Employee to say much about this because there is nothing they can say at all. The thing about putting these BS time restrictions on players to "even" the playing field is in reality more uneven then if you could just spam the dungeons. It really is only logical sense that putting more time = getting your reward.

    The people that complain about having unrestricted dungeon limits because they will fall behind are idiots that wouldn't keep this game afloat in the grand scheme of things. You can have 20 casuals playing once a week and compared to you OP they would be a worthless, free loading, leech that companies need to not value the complaints they make at all.

    Personally OP I would insist on quitting the game since it is rather clear that working hard gets you nowhere here and Nexon would prefer to slow you down hard with RNG so that the freeloaders can feel good about themselves.

    Its hard to accept but I guess I'm going back to CSGO or OW... Even the stress from competitive play isn't comparable to accepting odd's like this. Its actually painful. and I agree, look at my edit on my last post as you made this. Its ironic, great minds think alike. A time limit to keep casuals at the same level as people who want to grind is disrespectful towards people who want to put in the effort to get ahead. Its a joke.
  • SaranethSaraneth
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 1,995
    Posts: 129
    Member
    Tele wrote: »
    Hali wrote: »
    I feel your pain. I am not at your level of bad luck but with 58 enhancement charges at +11 I'm definitely getting there slowly. I don't really expect a GM or Nexon Employee to say much about this because there is nothing they can say at all. The thing about putting these BS time restrictions on players to "even" the playing field is in reality more uneven then if you could just spam the dungeons. It really is only logical sense that putting more time = getting your reward.

    The people that complain about having unrestricted dungeon limits because they will fall behind are idiots that wouldn't keep this game afloat in the grand scheme of things. You can have 20 casuals playing once a week and compared to you OP they would be a worthless, free loading, leech that companies need to not value the complaints they make at all.

    Personally OP I would insist on quitting the game since it is rather clear that working hard gets you nowhere here and Nexon would prefer to slow you down hard with RNG so that the freeloaders can feel good about themselves.

    Its hard to accept but I guess I'm going back to CSGO or OW... Even the stress from competitive play isn't comparable to accepting odd's like this. Its actually painful. and I agree, look at my edit on my last post as you made this. Its ironic, great minds think alike. A time limit to keep casuals at the same level as people who want to grind is disrespectful towards people who want to put in the effort to get ahead. Its a joke.

    Bye.
  • SaigoSaigo
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 100
    Post: 1
    Member
    RnG is RnG unfortunately. I failed to +9 my weapon 6 times in a row at a 50% chance, but got +11 on my 2nd attempt at a 30% chance. +15 should be pretty easy with all the enchantment charges I'm going to have, can pretty much guarantee getting it if I make it to +14.
  • SaranethSaraneth
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 1,995
    Posts: 129
    Member
    If you don't like the RNG use Peachy. Simple.
  • TeleTele
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 1,150
    Posts: 52
    Member
    edited 3:17AM November 4, 2018
    Saraneth wrote: »
    If you don't like the RNG use Peachy. Simple.
    I'm going to assume you made this ignorant comment without knowing how long it takes to go from even +12 to +13 with peachy and how unimaginably stupid that enhancement method even is. I can guarantee you not a single player in the game +12 or higher has used peachy. Why? Because there simply hasn't been enough time in the game yet. If you have nothing nice to say. Don't say anything at all. Bye.

    Edit: Not one player out of hundreds of thousands should be forced to use peachy because their RNG exceeds realistic game standards. Use your head please. Peachy is a choice not a punishment, She requires 3-4 months or more of grinding to even hit 11-14.
    HowlyeCaithe
  • JetUppercutJetUppercut
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 5,535
    Posts: 299
    Member
    I hate the RNG upgrade system with a passion, but the solution isn't complaining about it or begging Nexon to fix something as esoteric as your 'bad luck'.
    The solution is providing reasonable and realistic alternatives to the RNG systems in the suggestions forum.
    It stinks, but they obviously don't know how to fix it and since everyone is practically forced to use it, most of the complaints are just about bad RNG or how much effort is involved in mitigating the RNG through duplicates and enchantment charges than alternatives.
    Double drops and more a reset button are their solutions to those problems, if you get twice as much stuff you can attempt the upgrades twice as many times a week, at least in theory.
    Even though that's basically the opposite of what everyone wants for the RNG system, that's their solution because it solves the majority of the feedback they're receiving on their progression systems as quickly as possible.
    You have to take your expectations for how a system like this would work, consider reasonable compromises and then inject that into your feedback, rather than just expressing flat dissatisfaction with a bad system that they think they can solve with another bandaid.
    Otherwise this RNG upgrade system will never go anywhere.
    Tele
  • TeleTele
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 1,150
    Posts: 52
    Member

    I also failed like 6 times here with 60% chance to upgrade(at lest it was cheap)
    Now I'm gonna try to get from +12 to +13
    Wish me good rng.

    Sorry I didn't wish you good luck, good luck man I hope you have better RNG than me 10 fold. Even though I should probably say 100 fold rofl..
  • DarrithDarrith
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 1,495
    Posts: 83
    Member
    I’m in a similar position and am considering quitting the game because of it. I’m left at +12 for no reason other than bad luck even though I put in the same work as others, and that makes the game no longer fun.
    Tele
  • SaranethSaraneth
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 1,995
    Posts: 129
    Member
    edited 5:12AM November 4, 2018
    Tele wrote: »
    Saraneth wrote: »
    If you don't like the RNG use Peachy. Simple.
    I'm going to assume you made this ignorant comment without knowing how long it takes to go from even +12 to +13 with peachy and how unimaginably stupid that enhancement method even is. I can guarantee you not a single player in the game +12 or higher has used peachy. Why? Because there simply hasn't been enough time in the game yet. If you have nothing nice to say. Don't say anything at all. Bye.

    Edit: Not one player out of hundreds of thousands should be forced to use peachy because their RNG exceeds realistic game standards. Use your head please. Peachy is a choice not a punishment, She requires 3-4 months or more of grinding to even hit 11-14.

    The entitlement spewing from your post is astounding.


    Darrith wrote: »
    I’m in a similar position and am considering quitting the game because of it. I’m left at +12 for no reason other than bad luck even though I put in the same work as others, and that makes the game no longer fun.

    If you can't have fun unless your gear is maxed out then maybe you shouldn't be playing.