Check out the patch notes for the v17 Precursor Update here: http://maplestory2.nexon.net/en/news/article/53778/precursor-update-v17

UGC across regions / Merits to account not server

EmmiqueEmmique
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edited 8:03AM November 3, 2018 in Suggestions and Feedback
So I am currently falling in love with the UGC stuff more and more, especially the creation side of it.

However, I play on Oceanic. Unfortunately it seems that our UGC shop is very slow with few sales over all.
As a designer this makes me concerned that it will be incredibly difficult to even make the posting costs back in sales as most more recent posts average maybe 1-2 sales at most if lucky. Most people have already got what they want.

I feel even worse for any poor designers stuck on the South America server as it's even more sluggish there :(

Sorting by All Jobs, All Genders and Top Seller here are the 3 highest sale figures on the first page for all regions:

Update: I took this further and looked at the amount of sales from the Top Sales, All Jobs, All Genders of the first 3 pages in each region.
I have compiled the data in a google spreadsheet which can be found here:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1MrYJWhFK_sn3535tswsPgTTU5n8KHht6vwrqvWw4unk/edit?usp=sharing

Here is a screencap of the graphs, KEEP IN MIND it is only of the top 3 sales pages
YntiDFB.png

Do keep in mind that some listings will expire after 1 month, and people can take down items but relisting does not wipe the sale figure.

Would there be any possible way to link the UGC shop across regions?
+ Creators don't have to worry about across region thefts, much easier to check and report.
+ More sales to help fund future creations as not limited to smaller servers (eg. SA, OCE)
+ Much larger market
+ Much more variety for everyone
- Harder to moderate as much more content

If no, a simpler solution could be:
Make Blue Merits link to your Nexon account, not the server you play on.
It would allow creators to level and post their designs in other regions to help fund their home region.
VerdantLouweShoxieRichterMintyliciousZintackCarbonCoalmewberiCariseimirta000and 19 others.

Comments

  • DarnHyenaDarnHyena
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    If merets was account wide across all servers, would also make it easier for someone to cross list if they wanted to share their stuff with more peeps.
    VerdantJadedNia
  • AngelicPantyAngelicPanty
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    Seeing as each market is separated by server, it might be more difficult for them to run all listings together saved onto one world-wide ghost server. Although I personally would enjoy being able to sell my items on both servers and receive the profit together. I support this idea, but I feel like Nexon wouldn't merge all sales together because it's ~*tO cOmPlEx*~, so the simpler idea might be the latter they would choose.
    Although I'm blanking on whether or not on MS if you can share NX between characters.. If it's a no then I really doubt neoxn would implement an entirely different system on MS2..
  • LouweLouwe
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    edited 4:34PM November 2, 2018
    It's really sad here in SA, there are alot of cute/nice costumes and they don't even sell once (not even generic anime costumes).
    For me, i feel really desmotivated to create/sell things here, since there won't be many sales anyway...
    I think i big reason why people don't spend their money on ugc here is because of the usd > brl conversion (1 USD = 3,70 BRL)...it's kinda expensive lol
    So i definitively support your ideia
  • etrietri
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 845
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    edited 8:10AM November 3, 2018
    Another OCE designer here. I've learnt early on that making UCG solely for profit isn't viable - It's better to cater to your own interests first, then the general market. Being able to break even is already fortunate enough and everyone has already blown their founder's merits.

    Issues that impact the UCG market on smaller servers.
    - Merits are expensive due to the exchange rate - if you don't have a lot of expendable income, it makes you think twice before buying. For example, one USD = 1.39 AUD, so 50 USD = 69.35 AUD. We're essentially being screwed over by the exchange rate, but that's something us Australians have already accepted. Can't change that, but it's worth pointing out.
    - Smaller market. Great for visibility because less competition, not so great because there's nothing you'd want to spend merits on.
    - A smaller market means there's less people that would potentially spend money on your designs. It's discouraging when something you've spent time and effort on just doesn't sell.
    - Making an alt on another server solely to upload designs is nice, but the merits earned there will just... rot away. Kind of defeats the point of uploading it in the first place.

    > Making merits cross-server.
    + Would make it more worthwhile to list items on other servers.
    + Any profits can be funnelled to your main server.
    - But it gives incentive for UGC rippers to rip designs for more profit.

    > Trade designs with someone else on that server.
    + Trade a design, get a design you like. Nice.
    - The person that you trade designs with will inevitably make more profit then you ever will due to server population differences. Unless you somehow don't care about sales, it's going to be a bad deal.
    - Once the template leaves your hands, you have no way of knowing whether it'll trade hands again.

    Ideally the UCG store should be global, with the ability to filter between regions. There shouldn't be an increase in moderation workload - the amount of content to moderate will be roughly the same whether it is across 5 servers or in one large UCG server. Either way, I wish the OCE server's design shop was less depressing. :(
    DragonicWolfEmmiquemewberimirta000TamieDarkpixie99JadedFrostZz
  • ShoxieShoxie
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    This should be a thing, no reason why designs have to be region locked, designers are missing out on a lot of customers and customers are missing out on a lot of designs.
    Also merits should be shared across all of your characters across all of the servers like in every other game.
    mewberi
  • DragonicWolfDragonicWolf
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    I think one of the best things that could come from cross-server sharing of UGC content is that MAYBE thieves will be easier to spot and manage.
    t's better to cater to your own interests first, then the general market. Being able to break even is already fortunate enough
    This is what I am doing on OCE as a creator. I am making what i like, and even if i get ONE sale i am happy. People who steal content just to get free merets through profit are disgusting. Even creators whose only desire is profit are gross, but that is just my opinion. I guess there are also people who feel left out from the ability to earn merets because they are not artists. They might feel bitter about creators being able to get piles and piles of free currency while they cant.
    ArSkulderKodaiga
  • EmmiqueEmmique
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    Louwe wrote: »
    It's really sad here in SA, there are alot of cute/nice costumes and they don't even sell once (not even generic anime costumes).
    For me, i feel really desmotivated to create/sell things here, since there won't be many sales anyway...
    I think i big reason why people don't spend their money on ugc here is because of the usd > brl conversion (1 USD = 3,70 BRL)...it's kinda expensive lol
    So i definitively support your ideia

    I'm on OCE and I thought we had it bad until I popped on SA to get the numbers :(

    Currency conversion isn't even something I considered when writing the first post up. Ontop of that the smaller server and less sales makes it more expensive as you are incredibly unlikely to break even unlike on the larger servers.

  • EmmiqueEmmique
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    I think one of the best things that could come from cross-server sharing of UGC content is that MAYBE thieves will be easier to spot and manage.
    t's better to cater to your own interests first, then the general market. Being able to break even is already fortunate enough
    This is what I am doing on OCE as a creator. I am making what i like, and even if i get ONE sale i am happy. People who steal content just to get free merets through profit are disgusting. Even creators whose only desire is profit are gross, but that is just my opinion. I guess there are also people who feel left out from the ability to earn merets because they are not artists. They might feel bitter about creators being able to get piles and piles of free currency while they cant.

    As a creator who is a bit more on the wanting some profits side, that's mostly because it would be nice to atleast break even, and extra profits would go towards making more things. I want to get way into making loads of things but IRL I'm pretty broke so it would entirely depend on in game sales to help fund it
  • TheDefianceTheDefiance
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    I fully support this. I've had so many people ask me to bring over my designs to NAE or NAW, there's just no point since I don't play these regions. I feel like a lot more designers feel this way and get extremely discouraged by the little amount of sales we make that it almost makes it pointless to put something up since the cost will be higher than what you'll make back due to the measly amount of sales. Please nexon, implement a solution for us.
    mewberi
  • EmmiqueEmmique
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    Had a closer look at some averages on each region today and put it in a spreadsheet.
    I've attached a link so people can see it, along with an image.
    DragonicWolfmewberi
  • EmmiqueEmmique
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    Not sure if bumps are allowed, if not, apologies.
  • TheDefianceTheDefiance
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    Bumping this , because it's extremely important imo.
  • ZintackZintack
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    I really like this idea!
    I had some people ask me if I could put my item up on Na West and I really didn’t want to put merets (that cost a lot) onto the other server (that I never play on).
    I did make the merets back off sales but I wish I could do something with those merets now. I wish I could of used the merets I already got from sales on Na east to list it or at least just have my outfit listed across all servers once posted.
  • EmmiqueEmmique
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    Bumping this again.
    This needs attention, especially with the increased listing fee changes.
  • etrietri
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 845
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    edited 7:04AM November 7, 2018
    Hi again. I did some calculations comparing the current listing costs to the new cost - which has brought me to the obvious conclusion that it is no longer viable to sell UGC in OCE/SA with the new listing fees. Below are the calculations for the more popular UGC templates.

    We assume a couple of things here.
    1. We didn't use any template coupons.
    2. We didn't promote the item. (the market is so slow it's not worth bothering)
    3. We put items up for the base price on the market. (same price as template iic)
    4. We assume there was no listing fee when calculating the old cost.
    5. We sell enough to break even.
    6. We assume Nexon is kind enough to round any decimals up.

    CURRENT COST (70% profit)

    Cap - 250 to create = 175 from sales
    > sell 2 to make 350
    > 100 profit

    Suits - 400 to create = 280 from sales
    > sell 2 to make 560
    > 160 profit

    Jersey - 400 to create = 280 from sales
    > sell 2 to make 560
    > 160 profit

    Hoodie - 300 to create = 210 from sales
    > sell 2 to make 420
    > 120 profit

    Shirts - 200 to create = 140 from sales
    > sell 2 to make 280
    > 80 profit

    Tight Pants - 200 to create = 140 from sales
    > sell 2 to make 280
    > 80 profit

    Shoes - 150 to create = 105 from sales
    > sell 2 to make 210
    > 60 profit

    Boots - 220 = 154 profit
    > sell 2 to make 308
    > 88 profit

    NEW COST (75% profit, 490 listing fee)

    Cap - 250 to create, 490 to list, total cost 740
    > 187.5 from sales, round up to 188
    > sell 4 to make 752
    > 12 profit

    Suits - 400 to create, 490 to list, total cost 890
    > 300 from sales
    > sell 3 to make 900
    > 10 profit

    Jersey - 400 to create, 490 to list, total cost 890
    > 300 from sales
    > sell 3 to make 900
    > 10 profit

    Hoodie - 300 to create, 490 to list, total cost 790
    > 225 from sales
    > sell 4 to make 900
    > 110 profit

    Shirts - 200 to create, 490 to list, total cost 690
    > 150 from sales
    > sell 5 to make 750
    > 60 profit

    Tight Pants - 200 to create, 490 to list, total cost 690
    > 150 from sales
    > sell 5 to make 750
    > 60 profit

    Shoes - 150 to create, 490 to list, total cost 640
    > 112.5, round up to 113
    > sell 6 to make 678
    > 38 profit

    Boots - 220, 490 to list, total cost 710
    > 165 profit
    > sell 5 to make 825
    > 115 profit

    With designs on OCE/SA barely making 1-2 sales over the span of a month, having to sell 3-7 of an item before making a pittance of a profit just isn't viable. We'd now have to be extremely lucky to break even in the span of 3 months.

    POTENTIAL COUNTERPOINTS

    > Charge more for your designs.

    It's nice to consider but it's risky. You have to consider what Nexon charges for their cosmetics (between 390 - 640 merits, not considering style coin shop) and that merits are inherently more expensive for OCE/SA players. (1 AUD = 0.73 USD, 68.62 AUD = 50 USD or 1 USD = 3.75 BRL, 50 USD = 187.73 BRL ) Besides, if your designs aren't selling at the lowest possible price, increasing the price wouldn't really change much.

    > Move to an NA server if you want to sell UGC.

    Most OCE/SA players don't want to give up on their servers just yet. Yes, they're a lot smaller in comparison to NA but it's nice to be able to do hard dungeons without having to pray that displacement lag doesn't end up killing you. It's also nice that Nexon acknowledged our existence for once. Also moving to an NA server would require starting over and having to cough up NX again, which is annoying.
    ZintackmewberiJaded
  • EinoEino
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    Is there some kind of legal / technical reason they can't make a global UGC market? If they can't, then the next best thing would be to reduce the prices for OCE and Lat Am.
  • Nanachi_CCCPNanachi_CCCP
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 2,900
    Posts: 280
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    edited 7:53AM November 7, 2018
    haha,this is really bad
    some servers have around 0% chance for sale to happen yet the listing fee will be 500 merets
    So there will be 99.99% chance to lose merets on any design you make because even if you sell 400 meret item you get onle 325 back
    so even if you make this impossible 0.0...% sale you get -125 merets
    :DDD ebin

    Would be really cute to rethink this greedy "solution"
    mewberiJaded
  • etrietri
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 845
    Posts: 10
    Member
    edited 8:08AM November 8, 2018
    Bump. Nexon, please just acknowledge how these changes will badly affect smaller servers already. I'll include my comments from this thread as well in the spoiler below. It's awful how we now have to become the very vocal minority.
    Either way, this change to listing prices still assumes that all servers have the same buying population as NA and fails to consider how it would impact smaller servers. I'll use the Jersey template as an example.

    Zero items listed.
    Jersey - 400 to create, 190 to list, total cost 590
    > 300 from sales
    > sell 2 to make 600
    > 10 profit

    One item listed.
    Jersey - 400 to create, 290 to list, total cost 690
    > 300 from sales
    > sell 3 to make 900
    > 210 profit

    Two or more items listed.
    Jersey - 400 to create, 390 to list, total cost 790
    > 300 from sales
    > sell 3 to make 900
    > 110 profit

    This may be more reasonable for NA, where 2-3 sales are nothing but OCE/SA struggles to make even one sale in the span of a month with newer designs. So even at the cheapest listing price, we still struggle to break even. It's not going to be worthwhile to list more than one design at a time or at all. Most of our sales happen in first few days - after that, our designs will spend the rest of the listing period gathering dust.

    One potential change to this would be letting us choose our listing period (1 month, 2 months, 3 months) and scale the listing fee appropriately.

    But unless Nexon starts considering smaller servers, this sends us designers on OCE/SA a clear message -- if you want to make any sort of profit off your designs, move to NA. We've had the producer say on twitter here that having an individual server for Oceania was one the best decisions they've made. But when you make servers for specific regions which are bound to have a lower amount of players and players from there have made the effort to make spreadsheets to show how it would impact UGC sales you should try make changes for said servers. If you want these servers to succeed, please take care of them.

    You're still essentially killing off the design market on these servers. A lot of us designers here are making UGC for fun, but it's nice to share our designs and make a small profit on the side. Now we either keep our designs to ourselves, opt for just doing commissions (less money for Nexon) or consider changing servers because it's no longer viable to sell designs there without making a loss. And to change servers now would require reinvesting NX and losing our progress because the Maple Spin/Dungeon Delights/Halloween events are over, which offered us a kickstart on our progress.

    Just please consider smaller servers. At the very least, just tell us how viable a global UGC market is.
    At least then I and other designers know whether we should jump ship to NA or not.[/quote]
  • AllocAlloc
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    Would love that. I see a bunch of cool UCG stuff being posted here daily and the market at south-america is full of bad designs, memes and ripped stuff (mainly free UCG available at websites).
  • PikangiePikangie
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    Emmique wrote: »
    - Harder to moderate as much more content

    I'd actually argue that it would make it easier to moderate, since they have to moderate all of the regions anyway, and the multiple duplicates of stolen/ripped/free templates would be much more obvious and easy to catch too (and less encouraged among those who would do it, if there's already so many).

    The other pros really outweigh any cons. I guess the only real issue is whether Nexon actually can (or wants to) do it, whether the servers can be connected and have things transferred between them somehow. x_x I don't think we can even send messages across servers unlike Nexon's other game Mabinogi which can send messages/friend requests cross-server and STILL has no server transfer ability after over 14 years.
    Zintack