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Theif doesn't feel like a theif.

Great_ZokkiGreat_Zokki
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in Classes
TLDR: Theif is a rogue with who forgot what thieves do.

Theif plays more akin to a rogue, or even a bandit. Talking about how life is unfair, how they manage other people's money yet. After the intro you steal absolutely nothing except the pity of other's seeing you play theif. I expected to confound the enemy be great at making an escape.When I hear theif i expect to steal something. Maybe even use whatever i steal to fight back like stealing fro mcertain types of monster changed a skill some how. Theif is.....none of that skill or gameplay wise. It's more of an aesthetic thing then anything, but i really wish when they planned/made theif it incorpated things like stealing mesos to use them in attacks like meso guard. Smoke screen or moves that cc'd to confuse the enemey with mischief. Could evne be something like fake tears where by crying the enimies defense lowered. Maybe having more moves that could position the thief or let them dodge while they attack. Even something that just makes you feel...like a theif. 'Spirit theif' sorta does that but.....but it feels like they wanted to give theif a dash just to have one. If anything we're all just rogues who wish to be robbers or something. As of now theif is here and I still main it , but i still wish i could steal an item or a meso at least once.

Pkmdz
  1. Does theif feel like a theif class?40 votes
    1. Yes it does.
       38% (15 votes)
    2. No it does not.
       63% (25 votes)

Comments

  • OcculoOcculo
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    I know mind stealer deals dmg, and yeah it and mesogaurd are really the only "thief" like things. Would be kinda cool if mind stealer also like stole health, or stole stats and put a debuff on the target, like attk spd, dmg, ect(maybe even apply said stolen stats to party for some actual party utility). Mesogaurd has uses, just very situational, and usually requires to many points to get to to use right now aswell. I agree thief isn't really a thief and more akin to as assassin or rogue. But it is still a very very fun class, and i can never see myself switching off of it really to main something else.
  • KewkkyKewkky
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    If Mind Stealer also stole health, that'd be a huge buff for the class. Not in terms of damage, but in terms of survivability. The ability to self-heal is amazing, especially for melee classes that have almost no survivability like a Thief.
    DoomKitten
  • FerrionFerrion
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    Occulo wrote: »
    I know mind stealer deals dmg, and yeah it and mesogaurd are really the only "thief" like things. Would be kinda cool if mind stealer also like stole health, or stole stats and put a debuff on the target, like attk spd, dmg, ect(maybe even apply said stolen stats to party for some actual party utility). Mesogaurd has uses, just very situational, and usually requires to many points to get to to use right now aswell. I agree thief isn't really a thief and more akin to as assassin or rogue. But it is still a very very fun class, and i can never see myself switching off of it really to main something else.

    Mesoguard's use is that with the current max investment of 8 points, with cunning it gives you a 12 second 135% attack multiplier.
    The base 4s damage reduction is very situational and usually isn't worth losing the cunning version.
  • Great_ZokkiGreat_Zokki
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    Ferrion wrote: »
    Occulo wrote: »
    I know mind stealer deals dmg, and yeah it and mesogaurd are really the only "thief" like things. Would be kinda cool if mind stealer also like stole health, or stole stats and put a debuff on the target, like attk spd, dmg, ect(maybe even apply said stolen stats to party for some actual party utility). Mesogaurd has uses, just very situational, and usually requires to many points to get to to use right now aswell. I agree thief isn't really a thief and more akin to as assassin or rogue. But it is still a very very fun class, and i can never see myself switching off of it really to main something else.

    Mesoguard's use is that with the current max investment of 8 points, with cunning it gives you a 12 second 135% attack multiplier.
    The base 4s damage reduction is very situational and usually isn't worth losing the cunning version.

    See but I would also been fine with a meso tree where they had skils like meso throw , throwing meso based on damage spent or skill that gives cunning for mesos "Eye for the Prize" etc.
    No so much the mechanics or how the skills work just...doesn't feel like "Haha I'm going to steel the museum jewels while evading your attempt to catch me."
    more like "I'm just going to stab you or drug you while running in circles, that';s about it."
  • OcculoOcculo
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    Ferrion wrote: »
    Occulo wrote: »
    I know mind stealer deals dmg, and yeah it and mesogaurd are really the only "thief" like things. Would be kinda cool if mind stealer also like stole health, or stole stats and put a debuff on the target, like attk spd, dmg, ect(maybe even apply said stolen stats to party for some actual party utility). Mesogaurd has uses, just very situational, and usually requires to many points to get to to use right now aswell. I agree thief isn't really a thief and more akin to as assassin or rogue. But it is still a very very fun class, and i can never see myself switching off of it really to main something else.

    Mesoguard's use is that with the current max investment of 8 points, with cunning it gives you a 12 second 135% attack multiplier.
    The base 4s damage reduction is very situational and usually isn't worth losing the cunning version.

    Yes i understand that, my point was we don't have the sp to max that out without losing out on dmg on other needed skills.
  • starkiller1286starkiller1286
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    I was playing with a knight over discord and was jealous by how other he had a passive that let him Perfect Block (read evade) more often while
    theives which are supposed to be stealthy or at least agile have to rely entirely on RNG for evasive stats on their gear and more RNG to have it proc.
    Why is it that in the first game theives could shadow step, and had a passive to increase their dodge chance while here it's all about the poison,
    quickstep and dashes?
    Quickstep isn't even that good against bosses since most of them have charge attacks and you can't step sideways or diagonally.
  • FerrionFerrion
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    Occulo wrote: »
    Ferrion wrote: »
    Occulo wrote: »
    I know mind stealer deals dmg, and yeah it and mesogaurd are really the only "thief" like things. Would be kinda cool if mind stealer also like stole health, or stole stats and put a debuff on the target, like attk spd, dmg, ect(maybe even apply said stolen stats to party for some actual party utility). Mesogaurd has uses, just very situational, and usually requires to many points to get to to use right now aswell. I agree thief isn't really a thief and more akin to as assassin or rogue. But it is still a very very fun class, and i can never see myself switching off of it really to main something else.

    Mesoguard's use is that with the current max investment of 8 points, with cunning it gives you a 12 second 135% attack multiplier.
    The base 4s damage reduction is very situational and usually isn't worth losing the cunning version.

    Yes i understand that, my point was we don't have the sp to max that out without losing out on dmg on other needed skills.

    ??? Poison, hybrid, and VC can each invest their 8 np.
    https://arrowvulcan.github.io/MS2-Skill-Calculator/skills.html#10-10-10-0-0-9-0-0-1-0-0-0-1-0-2-2-0-8-1-0-5-3-10-0-6
    https://arrowvulcan.github.io/MS2-Skill-Calculator/skills.html#10-10-0-0-0-0-0-0-1-0-0-0-1-0-5-2-0-8-1-0-5-10-10-9-6
    https://arrowvulcan.github.io/MS2-Skill-Calculator/skills.html#10-3-2-0-0-0-0-0-1-0-0-0-1-0-10-2-0-8-1-0-5-10-10-9-6

    I agree wholeheartedly that we're not very thief like though

    @Starkiller1286 I find it easy to direct my backsteps on controller but yeah even then using it to dodge attacks tend to not work well, at least with my ping. better to just walk or mindbreaker out
    As for evasion, yeah I don't really know why it takes 12 points to actually have on demand evasion, and even then it takes cunning which we desperately need for damage....so it's just not worth it. Even if Retaliation's dmg buff is tempting, it just doesn't work out for good dps currently. Least not against a single target.
    starkiller1286Great_Zokki
  • starkiller1286starkiller1286
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    Ferrion wrote: »
    ??? Poison, hybrid, and VC can each invest their 8 np.
    https://arrowvulcan.github.io/MS2-Skill-Calculator/skills.html#10-10-10-0-0-9-0-0-1-0-0-0-1-0-2-2-0-8-1-0-5-3-10-0-6
    https://arrowvulcan.github.io/MS2-Skill-Calculator/skills.html#10-10-0-0-0-0-0-0-1-0-0-0-1-0-5-2-0-8-1-0-5-10-10-9-6
    https://arrowvulcan.github.io/MS2-Skill-Calculator/skills.html#10-3-2-0-0-0-0-0-1-0-0-0-1-0-10-2-0-8-1-0-5-10-10-9-6

    I agree wholeheartedly that we're not very thief like though

    @Starkiller1286 I find it easy to direct my backsteps on controller but yeah even then using it to dodge attacks tend to not work well, at least with my ping. better to just walk or mindbreaker out
    As for evasion, yeah I don't really know why it takes 12 points to actually have on demand evasion, and even then it takes cunning which we desperately need for damage....so it's just not worth it. Even if Retaliation's dmg buff is tempting, it just doesn't work out for good dps currently. Least not against a single target.
    I guess I can try it out on controller and see how that works out for me, so far I've been trying to scrape by on crit evasive and simple evasive gear instead of burning Cunning for a instant evade, I mean I guess it might be worth it if the cooldown was lowered but even then it would just be more productive to dump it into the poison surprise combo along with other things.
  • SentineIsSentineIs
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    There is a build people are talking about that utilizes the fact that a no cunning PE does a lot of damage. Going to test it out myself but the idea behind it is drop cunning PE, and vial. Cunning PE occasionally for reapply, but spam PE, and cunning blade dance attacks intentionally. This will give a high up time on the buff, and give you some nice evasion.

  • FerrionFerrion
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    SentineIs wrote: »
    There is a build people are talking about that utilizes the fact that a no cunning PE does a lot of damage. Going to test it out myself but the idea behind it is drop cunning PE, and vial. Cunning PE occasionally for reapply, but spam PE, and cunning blade dance attacks intentionally. This will give a high up time on the buff, and give you some nice evasion.

    I dont really see this working out. You wont have the spirit to spam PE and it's better to double slash for the cunning and then PE with cunning.
    Enhanced PE applies the poison, but every application also causes it to tic. Thus enhanced PE on an already poisoned target will do 5 tics worth of max poison dot on top of its base damage, which total is a little under double damage.
    As far as running the...what is it 14 points needed for retaliation? You're trading meso guard and a slew of mindbreaker points for it, and you'll need to spend cunning every 12s to maintain it and also you'll need something to dodge too. So while it would be up longer than guard, you're also using a lot of procs to do that while losing a big chunk of probably our strongest skill in Mindbreaker.
  • VendalVendal
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    Ferrion wrote: »
    SentineIs wrote: »
    There is a build people are talking about that utilizes the fact that a no cunning PE does a lot of damage. Going to test it out myself but the idea behind it is drop cunning PE, and vial. Cunning PE occasionally for reapply, but spam PE, and cunning blade dance attacks intentionally. This will give a high up time on the buff, and give you some nice evasion.

    I dont really see this working out. You wont have the spirit to spam PE and it's better to double slash for the cunning and then PE with cunning.
    Enhanced PE applies the poison, but every application also causes it to tic. Thus enhanced PE on an already poisoned target will do 5 tics worth of max poison dot on top of its base damage, which total is a little under double damage.
    As far as running the...what is it 14 points needed for retaliation? You're trading meso guard and a slew of mindbreaker points for it, and you'll need to spend cunning every 12s to maintain it and also you'll need something to dodge too. So while it would be up longer than guard, you're also using a lot of procs to do that while losing a big chunk of probably our strongest skill in Mindbreaker.

    See thats not true in all circumstances. with some evade gear and a priest you can reliably proc retaliation during enemy multihit attacks while face tanking with the priests heals. And if its already up then the evasion boost helps.

    Additionally Mesoguard is just bad. Like really bad. the uptime is 12/60 (20%) and it does also need a cunning.(once per 60 seconds isnt much but still)
    Retaliation gets to 16.5% or 18% I dont remmeber, but either way procing it twice during the time frame of 60 seconds surpasses mesoguard in output. And thats disregarding the evasions boost and the 30 free spirit you also get for procing it, which helps with spirit upkeep. Also BD does more dmg than most people assume due to the hidden 2x multiplier in it so that guaranteed dodge is quite strong even offensively.

    Mesoguard sucks. It just really does I've played with it a bunch and there is always something better for you to put your points in.

  • thdthd
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    edited 1:03PM October 30, 2018
    Theif should die in one hit also.
  • NikynoonooNikynoonoo
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    I was playing with a knight over discord and was jealous by how other he had a passive that let him Perfect Block (read evade) more often while
    theives which are supposed to be stealthy or at least agile have to rely entirely on RNG for evasive stats on their gear and more RNG to have it proc.
    Why is it that in the first game theives could shadow step, and had a passive to increase their dodge chance while here it's all about the poison,
    quickstep and dashes?
    Quickstep isn't even that good against bosses since most of them have charge attacks and you can't step sideways or diagonally.

    Grass is always greener on the other side I always look on with envy at ranged classes.
  • GreenSoup2HoTGreenSoup2HoT
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    I would just rename the class to Rogue.
    ReziGreat_ZokkiRedNova
  • ReziRezi
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    Spending mesos isn't thief-like at all. I remember another game, Royal Quest I think, where people felt thief was the worst class specifically because it had so many skills that focused on increasing drops and such instead of...actual combat skills. But that was the point. That's what made the class special.

    So I agree - Thief should be renamed Rogue.
    Great_Zokki
  • Great_ZokkiGreat_Zokki
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    Rezi wrote: »
    Spending mesos isn't thief-like at all. I remember another game, Royal Quest I think, where people felt thief was the worst class specifically because it had so many skills that focused on increasing drops and such instead of...actual combat skills. But that was the point. That's what made the class special.

    So I agree - Thief should be renamed Rogue.

    Agreed on the name and in the orginal maplestory, the dagger line was called Bandit,chief bandit, shadower.

    The bandit and cheif bandit had skills that not only had a pickpocket skill ((did damage to force enimies to drop mesos)) They also had a skill called meso explosion where all the ucrrently drops mesos from your kilsl would go off in a chain explosion. Plus i know a few games that ha da class that would make money to spend it on attacks which in turn would make them even stronger.

    Just name us rogue and save theif for later.
  • Bercilak_HautdesertBercilak_Hautdesert
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    This thief seems more like a mercenary to me "I did the work, now where's my money?"
    Great_ZokkiRezi
  • CyrroCyrro
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