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Improve Player Stats For Hard Dungeons

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  • AynixAynix
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    I’m so glad the fan boys finally confirmed how blind they are to the massive difference in HP. As a matter of fact, I do move around, so quit assuming I don’t. The movements are so often that every aggro wave my DPS becomes zero. Not only are the AoE unavoidable when caught up in, the NPCS don’t do jack squat to help players. All they do is sit around, waiting to make a portal for round two. Unlike me who actually tries to stay away from the hits, only to get knocked into some lava, and the next thing you know... a laser one shots me because I’m a mage. The one here without experience here is you, Wizards are far too out of balance for 2.7k HP to mean jack against a boss with 5bil HP.

    I can clear Fire Dragon having 500 hp, w/o priest.
    GIT GUD
  • Darkpixie99Darkpixie99
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    edited 4:16PM October 28, 2018
    Aynix wrote: »
    I’m so glad the fan boys finally confirmed how blind they are to the massive difference in HP. As a matter of fact, I do move around, so quit assuming I don’t. The movements are so often that every aggro wave my DPS becomes zero. Not only are the AoE unavoidable when caught up in, the NPCS don’t do jack squat to help players. All they do is sit around, waiting to make a portal for round two. Unlike me who actually tries to stay away from the hits, only to get knocked into some lava, and the next thing you know... a laser one shots me because I’m a mage. The one here without experience here is you, Wizards are far too out of balance for 2.7k HP to mean jack against a boss with 5bil HP.

    I can clear Fire Dragon having 500 hp, w/o priest.
    GIT GUD

    Get guders are why games fail when bugs or issues with mechanics aren't reported.
    So get off my thread and my back, and take your pride elsewhere.
    Oh, and if you've never made a mistake in your life, then you're not a human.

  • CLCCLC
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 1,375
    Posts: 95
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    You clearly need to learn how bosses work. They have patterns and everything is dodgeable. I have to agree it can be a bit harder, as the fight is not a 90% pre-scripted coreography like WoW bosses and contain of a lot of very random stuff but everything has a minimum cooldown and a lot of animations that can be read.

    Really? I thought it was 90% pre-scripted.
  • CLCCLC
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 1,375
    Posts: 95
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    Aynix wrote: »
    I’m so glad the fan boys finally confirmed how blind they are to the massive difference in HP. As a matter of fact, I do move around, so quit assuming I don’t. The movements are so often that every aggro wave my DPS becomes zero. Not only are the AoE unavoidable when caught up in, the NPCS don’t do jack squat to help players. All they do is sit around, waiting to make a portal for round two. Unlike me who actually tries to stay away from the hits, only to get knocked into some lava, and the next thing you know... a laser one shots me because I’m a mage. The one here without experience here is you, Wizards are far too out of balance for 2.7k HP to mean jack against a boss with 5bil HP.

    I can clear Fire Dragon having 500 hp, w/o priest.
    GIT GUD

    Get guders are why games fail when bugs or issues with mechanics aren't reported.
    So get off my thread and my back, and take your pride elsewhere.
    Oh, and if you've never made a mistake in your life, then you're not a human.

    Taking someone's bait how you lose all your support. Instead of flaming him, maybe learn that it is possible to take very little damage off fd then improve yourself?
    OneConfusedMilletian
  • Darkpixie99Darkpixie99
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    Posts: 205
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    edited 4:37PM October 28, 2018
    CLC wrote: »
    You clearly need to learn how bosses work. They have patterns and everything is dodgeable. I have to agree it can be a bit harder, as the fight is not a 90% pre-scripted coreography like WoW bosses and contain of a lot of very random stuff but everything has a minimum cooldown and a lot of animations that can be read.

    Really? I thought it was 90% pre-scripted.

    It is pre-scripted, and even I can observe that.
    It's just that variables affect where it goes, and according to somewhere online, they target Wizards quite often.
    It seems to be a purposefully done mechanic to make sure that knights keep up taunts.
    That's why I'm often as far away as possible, and running around flanking.
    (Until that split second 360 turn, and boom. Dead.)
  • CLCCLC
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 1,375
    Posts: 95
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    edited 4:48PM October 28, 2018
    CLC wrote: »
    You clearly need to learn how bosses work. They have patterns and everything is dodgeable. I have to agree it can be a bit harder, as the fight is not a 90% pre-scripted coreography like WoW bosses and contain of a lot of very random stuff but everything has a minimum cooldown and a lot of animations that can be read.

    Really? I thought it was 90% pre-scripted.

    It is pre-scripted, and even I can observe that.
    It's just that variables affect where it goes, and according to somewhere online, they target Wizards quite often.
    It seems to be a purposefully done mechanic to make sure that knights keep up taunts.
    That's why I'm often as far away as possible, and running around flanking.
    (Until that split second 360 turn, and boom. Dead.)

    Have you learned the animation?

    Start of fight it will pull back and jump into you or scrape his leg which will become a long charge.

    For the ko fire, it's 95% of the time, gonna start off with:
    fire>fire>laser>fire>bomb>bomb

    I think the animation starts off with him moving his head, then leaning back similarly to the jump he does in phase 1, he will then spin, then finally take a breath.

    If you wait till he spins you need to be well in position, most people run back when he leans back.

    As a wizard you just hide behind the pillar on the left side when the bombs appear. Your dodge is much better than mine (assassin), since it's very difficult for me to go through lasers.

    If you're having trouble just watch someone get a kill. I've been after lub more than fd so I don't know the patterns off by heart. But if you watch a guide they're pretty much the same thing over again, phase 2 part 2 is rather long, but its the same pattern.

    If you're having trouble with lasers in general, see which 3 attacks happen before each laser.
  • Darkpixie99Darkpixie99
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 3,315
    Posts: 205
    Member
    edited 4:49PM October 28, 2018
    CLC wrote: »
    CLC wrote: »
    You clearly need to learn how bosses work. They have patterns and everything is dodgeable. I have to agree it can be a bit harder, as the fight is not a 90% pre-scripted coreography like WoW bosses and contain of a lot of very random stuff but everything has a minimum cooldown and a lot of animations that can be read.

    Really? I thought it was 90% pre-scripted.

    It is pre-scripted, and even I can observe that.
    It's just that variables affect where it goes, and according to somewhere online, they target Wizards quite often.
    It seems to be a purposefully done mechanic to make sure that knights keep up taunts.
    That's why I'm often as far away as possible, and running around flanking.
    (Until that split second 360 turn, and boom. Dead.)

    Have you learned the animation?

    Start of fight it will pull back and jump into you or scrape his leg which will become a long charge.

    For the ko fire, it's 95% of the time, gonna start off with:
    fire>fire>laser>fire>bomb>bomb

    As a wizard you just hide behind the pillar on the left side when the bombs appear. Your dodge is much better than mine (assassin), since it's very difficult for me to go through lasers.

    If you're having trouble just watch someone get a kill. I've been after lub more than fd so I don't know the patterns off by heart. But if you watch a guide they're pretty much the same thing over again, phase 2 part 2 is rather long, but its the same pattern.

    If you're having trouble with lasers in general, see which 3 attacks happen before each laser.


    Of course I've learned it, it's the reaction time that gets penalized unfairly by the HP gap.
    A few seconds into a fire breath, and you might as well give up. It's too far, and the stuns prevent avoidance.
    You'd be dead by the time you reached the end, let alone the edge.

  • CLCCLC
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 1,375
    Posts: 95
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    Of course I've learned it, it's the reaction time that gets penalized unfairly by the HP gap.
    A few seconds into a fire breath, and you might as well give up. It's too far, and the stuns prevent avoidance.
    You'd be dead by the time you reached the end, let alone the edge.

    Sorry I edited my post after.

    For the ko fire, it's 95% of the time, gonna start off with:
    fire>fire>laser>fire>bomb>bomb

    I think the animation starts off with him moving his head, then leaning back similarly to the jump he does in phase 1, he will then spin, then finally take a breath.

    You need to be in position when he leans back, then hide when he spins around.
  • WallSeriesWallSeries
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    sound like a gid gud issue to me
  • NikynoonooNikynoonoo
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 1,655
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    Yeah when you make an error you get punished that's kind of the point. If you want to survive while being a wizard on top of everything else then you can throw the one thing knights have going for them right out the window.
  • Darkpixie99Darkpixie99
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 3,315
    Posts: 205
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    edited 2:45PM October 29, 2018
    WallSeries wrote: »
    sound like a gid gud issue to me
    Aynix wrote: »
    I’m so glad the fan boys finally confirmed how blind they are to the massive difference in HP. As a matter of fact, I do move around, so quit assuming I don’t. The movements are so often that every aggro wave my DPS becomes zero. Not only are the AoE unavoidable when caught up in, the NPCS don’t do jack squat to help players. All they do is sit around, waiting to make a portal for round two. Unlike me who actually tries to stay away from the hits, only to get knocked into some lava, and the next thing you know... a laser one shots me because I’m a mage. The one here without experience here is you, Wizards are far too out of balance for 2.7k HP to mean jack against a boss with 5bil HP.

    I can clear Fire Dragon having 500 hp, w/o priest.
    GIT GUD

    Get guders are why games fail when bugs or issues with mechanics aren't reported.
    So get off my thread and my back, and take your pride elsewhere.
    Oh, and if you've never made a mistake in your life, then you're not a human.

    Next person to say git gud, gits reported for taking the thread of imbalance off topic.
    Nikynoonoo wrote: »
    Yeah when you make an error you get punished that's kind of the point. If you want to survive while being a wizard on top of everything else then you can throw the one thing knights have going for them right out the window.

    With respect to the Knight class's tanking functions, their HP if taken upwards by new calculations should be high in comparison.

    So for example, revisions against the 5mil/bil bosses:

    Knight
    HP: 500k+
    DEF: 200k-500k (If DEF is revised.)

    DPS
    HP: 200k-450k
    EDF: 200k-300k

    Wizard/Priest:
    HP: 180k-300k (Somewhere in the middle with especially low defense.)
    DEF: 100k-200k (Lower than DPS, if bonus stats don't increase DEF.)
    CLC
  • TheShinxTheShinx
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    Posts: 4
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    Málalu wrote: »
    all bosses say/do something before a special attack, so you must learn and guide yourself on that, positioning is important in order to don't get absolutely obliterated.

    My friend on Phase 2 FD: LASER!!!!

    Me: ..... No, just fire balls.

    Also me: *dies 2 seconds later from the laser I ran into.
  • NikynoonooNikynoonoo
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 1,655
    Posts: 116
    Member
    edited 3:08PM October 29, 2018
    With respect to the Knight class's tanking functions, their HP if taken upwards by new calculations should be high in comparison.

    So for example, revisions against the 5mil/bil bosses:

    Knight
    HP: 500k+
    DEF: 200k-500k (If DEF is revised.)

    DPS
    HP: 200k-450k
    EDF: 200k-300k

    Wizard/Priest:
    HP: 180k-300k (Somewhere in the middle with especially low defense.)
    DEF: 100k-200k (Lower than DPS, if bonus stats don't increase DEF.)

    That doesn't matter what matters is that you would be able to do the one thing my class can do there would be no reason to pick a knight if everybody else could take hits. Your taking my classes biggest niche and not giving up anything for it.
  • KewkkyKewkky
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    edited 3:19PM October 29, 2018
    You do know that if people had that much HP, no one would ever die and the dungeon would actually be easier than normal adventure dungeons, right? Not even 50 lasers in a row would kill any player, and FD dies before he even fires 50 lasers as it is right now. Hell, in the PvP zone our HP scales lower than that, yet players deal vastly more damage than Fire Dragon does. The fight would become so unbelievably trivial and easy. How would you balance it to make it so that it's not just a boring-beyond-belief punching bag?
  • Darkpixie99Darkpixie99
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    Kewkky wrote: »
    You do know that if people had that much HP, no one would ever die and the dungeon would actually be easier than normal adventure dungeons, right? Not even 50 lasers in a row would kill any player, and FD dies before he even fires 50 lasers as it is right now. Hell, in the PvP zone our HP scales lower than that, yet players deal vastly more damage than Fire Dragon does. The fight would become so unbelievably trivial and easy. How would you balance it to make it so that it's not just a boring-beyond-belief punching bag?

    Naturally if player HP was scaled to match the boss HP, DPS from the boss would also be scaled.
    Take MS1, you have 100k HP, each single 3 hit does 10k points of damage, rather than the 1k.
  • KewkkyKewkky
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    Kewkky wrote: »
    You do know that if people had that much HP, no one would ever die and the dungeon would actually be easier than normal adventure dungeons, right? Not even 50 lasers in a row would kill any player, and FD dies before he even fires 50 lasers as it is right now. Hell, in the PvP zone our HP scales lower than that, yet players deal vastly more damage than Fire Dragon does. The fight would become so unbelievably trivial and easy. How would you balance it to make it so that it's not just a boring-beyond-belief punching bag?

    Naturally if player HP was scaled to match the boss HP, DPS from the boss would also be scaled.
    Take MS1, you have 100k HP, each single 3 hit does 10k points of damage, rather than the 1k.

    well to be fair, in MS1 bosses have vastly more HP than MS2 bosses. They even go upwards into the trillions.
  • NilremNilrem
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    Posts: 290
    Maple Guide
    Be brave and try dodging.

    If dodging is too difficult, try the following options:

    If you are a priest/a priest exists in the party: Obtain the heals.

    If you are a gunner/A support gunner is in the party: Devour the magical med kit.

    If you are any class besides Gunner/Zerker/Archer, You have all of the dodge. So D O D G E.

    If you are geared enough, tank that laser like a champ.

    If the laser one shots you can you can't bring yourself to sit next to a hole/cliff, god help you.
  • KamirriKamirri
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    Honestly if you're struggling with Fire Dragon I would suggest going in solo and practicing dodging the attacks. Every attack can be avoided, even the stun, if you can anticipate them and react quickly enough. For the laser specifically, he makes a growling noise and stands up on his hind legs. If you pay attention to your sound, you have plenty of time to jump into a hole or off the side of the platform to avoid certain death.
  • WooberWoober
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    I'm kind of impressed someone like OP is so incapable of learning they would rather complain on the forums instead of trying to improve.

    EVERY attack in FD is signaled ahead of time with an avoidable pattern.

    There's a reason why getting an S-rank means not getting hit by his attacks with the CLEAREST wind up animations (or at least not getting hit more than 1-2 times).

    If you can't learn or improve, then just quit the game instead of getting mad at your own failures.
  • Darkpixie99Darkpixie99
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    edited 4:58PM October 29, 2018
    Kewkky wrote: »
    well to be fair, in MS1 bosses have vastly more HP than MS2 bosses. They even go upwards into the trillions.

    MS2 Seems to be heading into that direction as well, with a terrible lack of balance.
    We're only 60/200 levels, with merely 50 cap gear, so yeah.
    RIP level 200 dungeons.