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[NA-Middle East] How much Skin is too much?

BizuBizu
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in General Chat
The UGC community would love transparency regarding this issue because we want to follow your rules. We understand that nearly 30% of the population is assumed to be minors and that this game might attract younger audiences. Could you please consider defining what is "too Sexual" for UGC? How much skin is too much skin?

Common sense is not an answer because every culture and household is raised differently, and you're removing items that are just as sexual / show the same amount of skin as your own items.

Posted this here already

KIDS GAME BTW

I want clear guidelines on what is and is not okay in UGC because it helps everyone. By providing the moderation staff with a clear guideline, there will be a much consistent ruling on UGC. There will be less questions of what is and is not okay from your own employees, and it removes cultural biases. One employee may think boy-shorts are A-OKAY but another might not.

It creates transparency with the company to the audience and allows your artists to know what to make, what to expect, and what is alright. It helps parents know what content should be expected in the UGC store, and it helps consumers know what to report. No one loses by you setting a clear, definitive boundary.

It creates a clear boundary for players to follow, since your own game riddled with sexual content:
QWQ6mSU.png zkgEwtJ.png ppeEVRs.png NVJgmuG.png
Please note, I do not have a problem with these NPCs or outfits, but am using them solely as an example of Nexon's unclear boundaries.

7kKePhy.png
The outfit on the left was taken down, while the outfit on the right is in Nexon's shop, being sold for NX. Why is the one on the right okay and the one on the left is not?

This is why we cant clear, concise guidelines. give us a template that highlights what needs to be covered. Show us on an image the examples of what you do want to see, and what you do not want to see. Help us, Nexon because we're also helping you make money. We are providing yoru game with content, so help us follow your rules.



----
ArSkulder wrote: »
Got the same mail as you, with the same reason, for this.
OpotgcD.jpg?1
This was my test UGC, just edited the blue jeans texture to black and made it shorter. I never sell it and only wear it for a while, because I just quickly edited it and didn't care about quality. While I'm glad they returned the design voucher so I can make a better UGC, I feel the reason is ridiculous. There are more suggestive UGC in market, and this one basically covers the same area as their sportswear bottom. I don't understand their logic to determine what is sexual and what is not.

SURE IS A GOOD THING NEXON TOOK DOWN YOUR SHORTS. OTHERWISE WE'D LOSE OUR E10/PG RATING--
ymaY9RZ.png

Oh. Shame on you, Nexon.
c6zUpRN.png

Nexon, please. I don't know if this is just conservative body shaming, or the fact that you've got GMs from the 1800s. Give us a guide like this, where you define what *must* be covered, and what is up to the moderator's direction!

ZsQlaDF.png
OneConfusedMilletianstarkiller1286idontreallyknowmanGailrinSherriSeasiderSpaiseCayziHawafuwaGretaand 2 others.

Comments

  • JetUppercutJetUppercut
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    I think it's dumb that they're banning original outfits for being slightly risque, when the shop is rampant with blatant copyright infringing designs, outfit rips and cropped porn that never gets taken down. I have a feeling that community moderation with an appeals system would work better than the current system, just because the people handling the reports obviously can't keep up with the volume of reports and have no idea what the guidelines are and seem to just be removing stuff at random.
    SyrusMarufujiAieDragonicWolfOneConfusedMilletiancatkinidontreallyknowmanDarkpixie99SherriHawafuwaReziand 1 other.
  • NeedyNeedy
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    Got the citation debuff, still waiting for anyone at nexon to tell me why ive got it.
    nothing removed from my shop so far.

    v happy im being punished with no reasoning



    twiddles thumbs
    SyrusMarufujiLunamiidontreallyknowmanRezi
  • BizuBizu
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    sFylL3h.png

    Update, found another piece of hypocritical gear.
  • KiymoriKiymori
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    Remember, it's not that Nexon doesn't realize the game is riddled with their own sexual content, a lot of it also comes back to the character Models. Chibi art is generally very well accepted, but there is always going to be the taboo side that people wont talk about that they look like children. Obviously due to certain laws in Korea/China/West etc, they have to make sure the games content abides by it. So if you actually read between the lines, it's not really the sexual content per say that's the problem, it's the fact the game can cross the pedo line legally if certain things are not policed.

    The examples you gave yes are obviously heavily 'sexualized' but they characters could pass for adults or at the bare minimum 18+. So legally they should not run into any problems. Games like Tera and Blade and Soul also had this same issue with the Elin, and the Lyn race for this very reason, where certain outfits and character models had to be 'redone' to be in compliance with the law.

    So at the end of the day, as long as Nexon isn't crossing any lines, and we aren't crossing any lines to ultimately get them in trouble, they don't really care. Honestly it should be very clear what designers should and should not do. If you made something that looks like a punishable offense, don't do it simple. Are their going to be instances that Nexon takes down certain items or polices things poorly? Absolutely, but they are free to do whatever they please as long as you agreed to the UGC compliance and they also don't abuse the contract as well. Players may not like that answer, but when you are agreeing to use someones 'product' you have to play by their rules.

    FloeLittlePixie
  • PinkFoxxyPinkFoxxy
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    i wouldnt really care, but i know how some of yall act. Yall be sexualizing tf out of the elin in tera.
    THEY LOOK LIKE KIDS!!! IDC IF THEY "ARE OLD BUT JUST LOOK YOUNG" (that sorry azz excuse) IT DOESNT MATTER!!!! and on top of that theyre half animal too!


    Floe
  • OneConfusedMilletianOneConfusedMilletian
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    Kiymori wrote: »
    If you made something that looks like a punishable offense, don't do it simple.

    You're exactly right. Except the creators of this content made things that did not look like punishable offenses. And yet they're being punished.

    Asking for clearer guidelines is totally within reason. Making the rules unclear does not help us follow them, and if Nexon wants UGC to remain an active part of the game, they will need to care.
    starkiller1286LunamiidontreallyknowmanUminoKorasuPoofcatGreta
  • NikynoonooNikynoonoo
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    Honestly it should be very clear what designers should and should not do.

    This is vague especially when you have Ophelia up there who makes every other picture shown up there look tame in comparison.
    OneConfusedMilletianidontreallyknowmanKelGreta
  • AieAie
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    PinkFoxxy wrote: »
    i wouldnt really care, but i know how some of yall act. Yall be sexualizing tf out of the elin in tera.
    THEY LOOK LIKE KIDS!!! IDC IF THEY "ARE OLD BUT JUST LOOK YOUNG" (that sorry azz excuse) IT DOESNT MATTER!!!! and on top of that theyre half animal too!


    they arent kids tho.
    im 21 and i look 14 does that mean i can't be sexual?
    SyrusMarufujiCarbonCoalidontreallyknowmanSaranethUminoKorasuGreta
  • BizuBizu
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    Kiymori wrote: »
    So at the end of the day, as long as Nexon isn't crossing any lines, and we aren't crossing any lines to ultimately get them in trouble, they don't really care. Honestly it should be very clear what designers should and should not do. If you made something that looks like a punishable offense, don't do it simple.

    So the shorts that are as short as Nexon's own starter gear?
    Guidelines should be made clear to avoid this confusion.
    idontreallyknowmanUminoKorasu
  • BizuBizu
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    PinkFoxxy wrote: »
    i wouldnt really care, but i know how some of yall act. Yall be sexualizing tf out of the elin in tera.
    THEY LOOK LIKE KIDS!!! IDC IF THEY "ARE OLD BUT JUST LOOK YOUNG" (that sorry azz excuse) IT DOESNT MATTER!!!! and on top of that theyre half animal too!


    If you have nothing valid and on-topic to contribute to the discussion, please refrain. We're not asking for validation on sexualizing chibis, characters- we're asking for the guideline on what Nexon considers to be too much.
    SyrusMarufujiCarbonCoalidontreallyknowmanUminoKorasuGretaAbsolutelyNot
  • KewkkyKewkky
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    Aie wrote: »
    PinkFoxxy wrote: »
    i wouldnt really care, but i know how some of yall act. Yall be sexualizing tf out of the elin in tera.
    THEY LOOK LIKE KIDS!!! IDC IF THEY "ARE OLD BUT JUST LOOK YOUNG" (that sorry azz excuse) IT DOESNT MATTER!!!! and on top of that theyre half animal too!


    they arent kids tho.
    im 21 and i look 14 does that mean i can't be sexual?

    Nope. You're not allowed to be sexual. Your existence creates pedophiles. Shame on you!
    idontreallyknowman
  • KiymoriKiymori
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    edited 9:39AM October 29, 2018
    Kiymori wrote: »
    If you made something that looks like a punishable offense, don't do it simple.

    You're exactly right. Except the creators of this content made things that did not look like punishable offenses. And yet they're being punished.

    Asking for clearer guidelines is totally within reason. Making the rules unclear does not help us follow them, and if Nexon wants UGC to remain an active part of the game, they will need to care.

    I fully agree with you with asking for clearer guidelines, except there is one small problem. When it comes to a topic as sensitive as this one, giving players a 'template' to follow will only lead to more outrage and confusions among the player base. Why? Because in some ways it takes away Nexons freedom to take down art as they see fit, players could then MUCH more easily say 'why did you take down XYZ I was within your guidelines, how come mine and not theirs?'. Not only that, but it would also take away a lot of the freedom of designers if they suddenly said things like No skin, No cleavage etc etc. It would just mean they would have to police a lot more which I highly doubt they want to commit to, on top of that they would then potentially have to wipe the current shop to start fresh which I am sure would anger a lot of people at this point.So in a very subtle way it's a win win for both sides.

    Besides, when it comes to clothing if they define the terms for what is sexual and what is it, it would have to be THEIR terms. And the problem then becomes many people might not agree with it(not that it matters what we think they have the rights to the game) especially when you are talking about western players who think virtually being naked at this point isn't 'sexually suggestive', or nothing is sexually suggestive unless it's in your own head. The easy way out I believe for them is simply to put the warning their, and just eliminate things on a case by case basis as they see fit. Again, as I said earlier, it's not the best method and a lot of designers probably don't or won't like it, but that's what happens when you use a companies platform.
    Bizu wrote: »
    Kiymori wrote: »
    So at the end of the day, as long as Nexon isn't crossing any lines, and we aren't crossing any lines to ultimately get them in trouble, they don't really care. Honestly it should be very clear what designers should and should not do. If you made something that looks like a punishable offense, don't do it simple.

    So the shorts that are as short as Nexon's own starter gear?
    Guidelines should be made clear to avoid this confusion.

    I don't agree with all things they get rid of either, but as I keep saying, they reserve the right to do as they see fit. Honestly once more people get that in their head they will be less triggered by all this. If 'your' design gets taken down for something mild, just don't do it again and try something else as I don't see the sense in trying to argue with a company on what you think you should be entitled to on their platform. Sad reality is some people will just get away with their very clearly sexual outfits and some wont as we have seen before.
    Aie wrote: »
    PinkFoxxy wrote: »
    i wouldnt really care, but i know how some of yall act. Yall be sexualizing tf out of the elin in tera.
    THEY LOOK LIKE KIDS!!! IDC IF THEY "ARE OLD BUT JUST LOOK YOUNG" (that sorry azz excuse) IT DOESNT MATTER!!!! and on top of that theyre half animal too!


    they arent kids tho.
    im 21 and i look 14 does that mean i can't be sexual?

    You can't insert your personal life into something and apply it across the board. Places like Korea, China, Japan etc have very strict rules they have to follow when it comes to chibi or loli elements when games go into development. Even when the game is ported to the west we also have to follow strict policies especially if we want to slap a Kid/Teen Rating on the game. Do you know what that means? It means certain deemed overly sexual models have to be redone, certain outfits are removed, certain game scenes are removed etc etc. A lot of people don't actually realize this when games come out they just assume you can do whatever but not if you want your game to be allowed to be hosted on certain platforms.

    Again it's taboo subject that a lot of people don't want to talk about or admit to, but Chibi art especially LOLI characters DO lean on the side of 'looking like a child' no matter how much some people want to pretend it doesn't. There is a reason that style of art does so well with a certain group and gets so much flak from the law when it's being hosted on certain platforms. Why do you think when big titles come out with Loli characters that are overly sexualized they have to explicitly state somewhere the character is of 'legal age'?

    TLDR: Your age and how you look has nothing to do with this, that's some SJW level reasoning. Laws have to be followed but obviously they are not policed very well oh well.
    Floe
  • ZarozianZarozian
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  • SyrusMarufujiSyrusMarufuji
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    Man theres so much wrong with what Kiymori said, so I'm just gonna focus on the most glaring issue imo.
    Again it's taboo subject that a lot of people don't want to talk about or admit to, but Chibi art especially LOLI characters DO lean on the side of 'looking like a child' no matter how much some people want to pretend it doesn't. There is a reason that style of art does so well with a certain group and gets so much flak from the law when it's being hosted on certain platforms. Why do you think when big titles come out with Loli characters that are overly sexualized they have to explicitly state somewhere the character is of 'legal age'?

    TLDR: Your age and how you look has nothing to do with this, that's some SJW level reasoning. Laws have to be followed but obviously they are not policed very well oh well.

    You kind of shot yourself in the foot with this explanation because no matter how they look it's legal in USAregardless of whether the character in question is underage or not. Many people find this distasteful, but if you wanted to bring LAW into this, heres the breakdown.

    Chibi characters being sexualized dont get flak from the law, they get flak from a majority of people, and enough major websites and hosts prohibit the content that it promotes the misconception that it is actually illegal in the US when it is merely a drawn character. Discord even outright states in their rules they find underage fictional content tasteless and prohibit it, as is their right as a private company.

    Also I'd like point out that the only time childlike characters in fictional media can be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, is when the childlike character represents a real person or is indistinguishable from a photograph.

    And the bottom line is, what is sexualizing anyway? Does a child showing their midriff constitute as sexual? Why should the revealing of anything but genitalia be deemed to be sexually charged to anyone.

    Techn0mancerSpaiseKelLeilafiGretaTamakiSakuraRezi
  • idontreallyknowmanidontreallyknowman
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    Needy wrote: »
    Got the citation debuff, still waiting for anyone at nexon to tell me why ive got it.
    nothing removed from my shop so far.

    v happy im being punished with no reasoning



    twiddles thumbs

    I got that too, nothing removed but I've had the debuff for 2 days now.
  • BizuBizu
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    Needy wrote: »
    Got the citation debuff, still waiting for anyone at nexon to tell me why ive got it.
    nothing removed from my shop so far.

    v happy im being punished with no reasoning



    twiddles thumbs

    I got that too, nothing removed but I've had the debuff for 2 days now.

    Nexon is infamous for not working on the weekend. Additionally, in my experience I was given my citation a day before they removed my items.

    Day 1: Citation Received, around 4 PM PST
    Day 2: Item Removed around 11AM-12PM PST
    Day 2, Later: Another Citation Recieved (Debuff Refreshed, not extended) Around 4PM PST
    Day 3: Item Removed.

  • KiymoriKiymori
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    Man theres so much wrong with what Kiymori said, so I'm just gonna focus on the most glaring issue imo.
    There is? Please feel free to highlight and point out what I have said that is wrong, it doesn't make any sense telling someone they are wrong in a healthy discussion if you are unwilling to show and prove why what was said is indeed wrong. At that point it just sounds like you don't really know what is wrong with what was said and are just copping out. I am very much open to correction and changing my mind if you can show me with a clear answer
    Again it's taboo subject that a lot of people don't want to talk about or admit to, but Chibi art especially LOLI characters DO lean on the side of 'looking like a child' no matter how much some people want to pretend it doesn't. There is a reason that style of art does so well with a certain group and gets so much flak from the law when it's being hosted on certain platforms. Why do you think when big titles come out with Loli characters that are overly sexualized they have to explicitly state somewhere the character is of 'legal age'?

    TLDR: Your age and how you look has nothing to do with this, that's some SJW level reasoning. Laws have to be followed but obviously they are not policed very well oh well.

    You kind of shot yourself in the foot with this explanation because no matter how they look it's legal in USAregardless of whether the character in question is underage or not. Many people find this distasteful, but if you wanted to bring LAW into this, heres the breakdown.

    You missed my point completely, I am saying game developers DO have guidelines to follow when they are releasing games to a certain audience on a certain platform, especially if their game does contain content that is deemed sexual. You don't have to be a game developer or publisher to know this it's fairly common knowledge. And when you are dealing with chibi art and or Loli art the situation does become more sticky, that is just part of the 'game'.

    Chibi characters being sexualized dont get flak from the law, they get flak from a majority of people, and enough major websites and hosts prohibit the content that it promotes the misconception that it is actually illegal in the US when it is merely a drawn character. Discord even outright states in their rules they find underage fictional content tasteless and prohibit it, as is their right as a private company.

    Notice in my post I mentioned different parts of the world? The law differs in different places which is why I didn't just say west. I am honestly not sure why you cherry picked that part of my post and took it out of context. This isn't about art being illegal, it's what gaming platforms are and are not allowed to depict based on certain guidelines they have to follow.

    Also I'd like point out that the only time childlike characters in fictional media can be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, is when the childlike character represents a real person or is indistinguishable from a photograph.

    Nobody is talking about this

    And the bottom line is, what is sexualizing anyway? Does a child showing their midriff constitute as sexual? Why should the revealing of anything but genitalia be deemed to be sexually charged to anyone.
    This is exactly why the current way of policing designs works, it stops people from eliminating a 'standard' and Nexon has the ability to just punish or remove things they see fit. I 'm personally glad they are doing it this way, because with the way a lot of people are their definition of things always changes to suit their needs.

    Replies in bold.
    Floe
  • Darkpixie99Darkpixie99
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    edited 7:00PM October 29, 2018
    I have to agree that Nexon needs to step up and realize that UGC in other countries doesn't exist, simply because of the nudity factor.
    The "How Much Skin Is Too Much Skin" question is something that you'd have to consult with the ESRB in every country.
    The moderation so far is to low due to every player being capable of posting something.
    There needs to be some bottom dollar rule to require before UGC can be posted.
    Such as a two week waiting period for the item in question to be reviewed, and sent forward for a copyright/ToS check.
    Because that's about the short version of a waiting period for any other content in any other game.
  • AieAie
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    Kewkky wrote: »
    Aie wrote: »
    PinkFoxxy wrote: »
    i wouldnt really care, but i know how some of yall act. Yall be sexualizing tf out of the elin in tera.
    THEY LOOK LIKE KIDS!!! IDC IF THEY "ARE OLD BUT JUST LOOK YOUNG" (that sorry azz excuse) IT DOESNT MATTER!!!! and on top of that theyre half animal too!


    they arent kids tho.
    im 21 and i look 14 does that mean i can't be sexual?

    Nope. You're not allowed to be sexual. Your existence creates pedophiles. Shame on you!

    oh no! Now i have to live my whole life as a child even tho im a legal adult and every country!! im gonna cry
    SyrusMarufujiGreta
  • SaranethSaraneth
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    Won't somebody please think of the chibis? The とてもかわいいちびたち?
    UminoKorasuSyrusMarufuji