Check out the patch notes for the v17 Precursor Update here: http://maplestory2.nexon.net/en/news/article/53778/precursor-update-v17

Dungeon Cap "fix" to show games P2W future??

fuwwyfuwwy
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in General Chat
http://maplestory2.nexon.net/en/news/article/37616/producer-blog-dungeon-limit-change-for-november-update

We've all heard about this cap lifting "one-time use" update they will be implementing soon. So far nexon has been really surprising in how willing they are to make new content, fix bugs and balance issues. etc but we've all been waiting to see if Nexon returns to type. With this latest announcement I think we can see what the future will hold. I think its pretty obvious that this cap lifting option will eventually be something you can pay real money to buy. This of course would give those paying for the higher cap a significant advantage in loot gathering etc and would very much break the game's balance. This solution is so off base from what the players were demanding it seems like its clearly a set up to create demand for these cap raising items ahead of when Nexon finally pulls the trigger and starts selling them.

I hope I'm wrong and maybe I'm missing something but this is really concerning as someone who has grown to love this game (despite all it's flaws) over the last few weeks.

In my mind, a better solution would have been to either get rid of the weekly cap and let ppl do 10 dungeons a day every day or to increase item drop rates so you dont have to grind the same content over and over. Right now it is set up where some interesting dungeons dont get played at all because everyone wants to grind for loot from the 2-3 dungeons with the best odds.

tl;dr I think the current solution is setting us up for a nexon brand (tm) patented cash grab and a better solution is needed to actually address the core problems with the dungeon caps.
  1. do you like the current dungeon cap solution Nexon will implement soon30 votes
    1. Yes
       53% (16 votes)
    2. No
       17% (5 votes)
    3. Undecided
       30% (9 votes)

Comments

  • XokinXokin
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    I disagree with you and I doubt they will do/offer that kind of stuff for cash, quote me later if I am wrong!

    And I am wondering why does this bothers you that much? Are you a f2p who is going to NOT spend any cent into this game or did you support this game by buying the founder pack? I mean they have to earn some money somehow... don’t get me wrong I hate p2w but even if they do sth like a „premium“ service where you get some extra dungeon runs in fine with that! Since it is slightly p2w.... I would pay money to support server fees and get a chance to get my desired drop which is not guaranteed! Just my opinion
    idontreallyknowman
  • CyberliskCyberlisk
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    Nah , I agree it probably will be used to be a "pay to reset dungeons" but I mean. You can't sell 90% of the epics from HM dungeons anyways , and the things you can sell are pretty rare. I think it's more of a convenience , but if you ARE going to scream P2W on this why is nobody complaining about the Premium Dungeon that people with premium gets ? ez 200+K Mesos daily for 5 mins of spamming 2 buttons.
    DanDKWolfyBoy
  • fuwwyfuwwy
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    Xokin wrote: »
    I disagree with you and I doubt they will do/offer that kind of stuff for cash, quote me later if I am wrong!

    And I am wondering why does this bothers you that much? Are you a f2p who is going to NOT spend any cent into this game or did you support this game by buying the founder pack? I mean they have to earn some money somehow... don’t get me wrong I hate p2w but even if they do sth like a „premium“ service where you get some extra dungeon runs in fine with that! Since it is slightly p2w.... I would pay money to support server fees and get a chance to get my desired drop which is not guaranteed! Just my opinion

    I dont have problems with them wanting money, its just never been healthy for a game to adopt this kind of model. Actual gameplay stuff shouldn't be stuff you can pay for or else you'll ruin the balance. Especially in a game where everyone is excited for PVP like this. We've seen this kind of stuff ruin games like BDO and MS1 among countless others and it cheapens the hours of work you need to get this stuff otherwise knowing that it can just be bought by some rich kid with no effort. My issue isnt really with them charging for stuff, I think they just need to be careful with what they make buyable or it just will be a repeat of other games that got nexon'd. So far the game has been really good about not having stuff like that in it and keeping payable stuff to cosmetics etc. To reiterate I dont have an issue paying for the game, I got the founder's edition, will probably continue to pay for the premium (which has a few p2w components but nothing severe) when it runs out. Additionally I've bought some merits to spend on my house/character so im not opposed to paying for a game you like to play, just dont want the population to die out when people who cant afford to spend as much start to fall behind and give up.
  • ZarozianZarozian
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    I would say it’s too soon to make a judgement. But if you are right then I will be with you guys all the way.
    DanDKidontreallyknowman
  • fuwwyfuwwy
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    Cyberlisk wrote: »
    Nah , I agree it probably will be used to be a "pay to reset dungeons" but I mean. You can't sell 90% of the epics from HM dungeons anyways , and the things you can sell are pretty rare. I think it's more of a convenience , but if you ARE going to scream P2W on this why is nobody complaining about the Premium Dungeon that people with premium gets ? ez 200+K Mesos daily for 5 mins of spamming 2 buttons.

    I agree it is p2w-ish. I think the difference here is that that the premium dungeon is content you actually have to play and 200k in the grand scheme of things right now isnt a lot of gold (you could grind it everyday for a week and it wouldnt give you enough for your epic most likely). But if you grind dungeons 60 times a week every week you will have more xp/gold/loot and will have a better build for pvp for it.
  • BearSenseiBearSensei
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    How is it P2W? all the items in the hard dungeon are bound on loot u can't trade anything but the pet and the horns and even that is a rarity. Everyone gets the reset its not limiting you or hidden behind a pay wall. besides getting to 60 is incredibly easy u can legit kill 3 world bosses to go from 59-60 all u gotta do is kill like 15-25 from 50-60 to hit 60 even then its easy. Currently with the double drop u can farm ur epic gears from tronix in order to be ready for it besides prices are going down for everything so u can start doing hard dungeons anyways and even then the items in hard are still bound on loot
  • fuwwyfuwwy
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    BearSensei wrote: »
    How is it P2W? all the items in the hard dungeon are bound on loot u can't trade anything but the pet and the horns and even that is a rarity. Everyone gets the reset its not limiting you or hidden behind a pay wall. besides getting to 60 is incredibly easy u can legit kill 3 world bosses to go from 59-60 all u gotta do is kill like 15-25 from 50-60 to hit 60 even then its easy. Currently with the double drop u can farm ur epic gears from tronix in order to be ready for it besides prices are going down for everything so u can start doing hard dungeons anyways and even then the items in hard are still bound on loot

    Paying to do more content that is directly tied to the gear progression is literally the definition of P2W. That's not even debatable...
  • BearSenseiBearSensei
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    fuwwy wrote: »
    BearSensei wrote: »
    How is it P2W? all the items in the hard dungeon are bound on loot u can't trade anything but the pet and the horns and even that is a rarity. Everyone gets the reset its not limiting you or hidden behind a pay wall. besides getting to 60 is incredibly easy u can legit kill 3 world bosses to go from 59-60 all u gotta do is kill like 15-25 from 50-60 to hit 60 even then its easy. Currently with the double drop u can farm ur epic gears from tronix in order to be ready for it besides prices are going down for everything so u can start doing hard dungeons anyways and even then the items in hard are still bound on loot

    Paying to do more content that is directly tied to the gear progression is literally the definition of P2W. That's not even debatable...

    I know what P2W is however exactly what part of it is P2W? The feature is free for everyone no one is restricted there not charging merits or gold to reset it? A P2W feature has to be something really restricted to someone who is paying more that is what P2W is. You are not restricted from resetting the dungeon everyone can do it is my point so its not P2W because of it
  • CyberliskCyberlisk
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    This thread is talking about the possibility of this "beta" feature to be turned into a "pay Nexon $5 per week to run an extra 30 dungeons" , I mean why would they make a button? Why not just increase the cap to 60?
  • fuwwyfuwwy
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    BearSensei wrote: »
    fuwwy wrote: »
    BearSensei wrote: »
    How is it P2W? all the items in the hard dungeon are bound on loot u can't trade anything but the pet and the horns and even that is a rarity. Everyone gets the reset its not limiting you or hidden behind a pay wall. besides getting to 60 is incredibly easy u can legit kill 3 world bosses to go from 59-60 all u gotta do is kill like 15-25 from 50-60 to hit 60 even then its easy. Currently with the double drop u can farm ur epic gears from tronix in order to be ready for it besides prices are going down for everything so u can start doing hard dungeons anyways and even then the items in hard are still bound on loot

    Paying to do more content that is directly tied to the gear progression is literally the definition of P2W. That's not even debatable...

    I know what P2W is however exactly what part of it is P2W? The feature is free for everyone no one is restricted there not charging merits or gold to reset it? A P2W feature has to be something really restricted to someone who is paying more that is what P2W is. You are not restricted from resetting the dungeon everyone can do it is my point so its not P2W because of it

    "What part of it is pay to win?" Idk maybe the part where you are paying to win. I think you're confused. The point of this thread is that the solution right now will become something you can pay for in the future. At which point the people who choose to pay for it will have an intrinsic advantage over those who dont. Thusly it's pay to win. This thread is speculating on the future, not talking about the one free reset they are giving out to try to pacify all the complaints on the forum. Please read the whole thread before you start trying to start a flame war thank you.
  • mirta000mirta000
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    they're not selling the service though, so I think you're jumping the gun by quite a bit?
  • SecrotsSecrots
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    People forget that each game is going to have their own team of people working on it. They might be under the same main name, but the team from MS for example likely has very little to do with the team for MS2.

    So far this team has shown nothing but promise, so I think it's fair to give them a bit more credit than to assume it'll just immediately turn to crap.
  • ZarozianZarozian
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    Well the pay to win stigma has been pretty bad with Nexon, but not without good reason, since people look at all the other past games it has always been like that.

    So it’s really hard to defend Nexon’s decisions without seeing some sort of cash grabbing ulterior motive behind what most would consider good decisions. But with how many games out there that resort to this tactic, I believe the entirety of the gaming population are so jaded by it that they can easily spot the signs.

    But it’s kind of good that they aren’t making things easy for game companies to pull such moves off, cause people really abandon the game in droves.
  • fuwwyfuwwy
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    mirta000 wrote: »
    they're not selling the service though, so I think you're jumping the gun by quite a bit?

    I'm actually really hoping I am just jumping the gun and they won't do this. Like I said in the OP they have been showing a lot of good sense lately but this misstep is very suspicious imo. If we call them out early enough maybe it'll persuade them to go down a different path as well but who knows.
    Zarozian
  • WhyWhyWhyWhy
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    If they have already planned to make the dgn reset meret only, then no amount of persuading can change their minds, Nexon biggest concern is not the player base's satisfaction but the stockholders.

    We first have to understand that the game cost money to maintain , Translation and porting from KMS, salary, server cost etc, if they are not making enough to please the stockholders, they will be force to implement another way to fill in the missing amount of income.
  • ArdawnArdawn
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    Cyberlisk wrote: »
    Nah , I agree it probably will be used to be a "pay to reset dungeons" but I mean. You can't sell 90% of the epics from HM dungeons anyways , and the things you can sell are pretty rare. I think it's more of a convenience , but if you ARE going to scream P2W on this why is nobody complaining about the Premium Dungeon that people with premium gets ? ez 200+K Mesos daily for 5 mins of spamming 2 buttons.

    200k mesos is pay to win? I can honestly get 200k in my sleep.
    idontreallyknowman
  • ElliebirdElliebird
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    Nexon have been uncharacteristically good about keeping P2W far away from this game. It is such a change from their usual that the only explanation I have been able to think of is that they want to remove the stigma that has built up around them. I'm in the same boat, I find it hard to trust that they'll keep the game clean of it, just due to their track record. I'm cautiously optimistic about it though. It could be wishful thinking, but if they continue to show the support that they are giving Maple 2, I would be much more willing to play other games published by them in the future. (Looking at you, Moonlight Blade.)

    I do think it is too soon to call it quits, the feature hasn't been implemented yet and they've done a good job so far with the game's payment model. That being said, it's important to keep an eye on it as the feature gets closer to being released. Maybe they'll give us more information or clear up our concerns.
    idontreallyknowman
  • idontreallyknowmanidontreallyknowman
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    I don't think they'll pay it pay to reset.
  • BLAXJACBLAXJAC
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    They weren’t really fond about increasing the limit to begin with. I highly doubt they thought about charging us for something they didn’t want implemented anyway.
  • MizaruMizaru
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    There's no point in talking about this before they implement the "final version". We'll see what it will be, but until then I see no purpose on speculating about things no one knows yet (not even Nexon I bet).