Check out the patch notes for the v17 Precursor Update here: http://maplestory2.nexon.net/en/news/article/53778/precursor-update-v17

Petition to Remove Fair Fight

Comments

  • NikynoonooNikynoonoo
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    ACO wrote: »
    I don't understand why some people are so against playing the game. Some of the arguments stated above makes sense in terms of wanting to feel progression and I agree with some of them. But the majority of the argument for the removal of Fair Fight simply boils down to wanting to skip contents - It's almost as if they want to put in work and effort to obtain better gears just to be exempt from participating in content they deemed boring or tedious. Devaluing or trivializing content like this is how you create a game full of contents and nothing to do.

    What is the point of having a Knight or a Priest in your party if Fair Fight is removed? Just go full DPS and clear the map in 2 mins, assuming you are geared enough and the dungeon mechanic doesn't required multiple class/players.
    The game should not cater to those wanting fast clear at the cost of trivializing contents. At some point the power creep will become so extreme that there will little point to engage the community and party and this goes against the core principles of Maplestory 2. There are many ways to enable players to feel "progression" without resorting to the removal of Fair Fight.

    Developers should not listen to a subset of small but vocal minority aiming to sabotage the game play experience for the rest of the player base. Player should not be allowed to bypass content. They should have the right to choose to participate in the said content, however they should never be allowed to not participate and still receive the benefit.

    Introduce a soft cap to enable progression or relax the criteria at which Fair Fight comes into play , but do not remove Fair Fight.

    Note: The current false information of "Given the same gear and skill investment, a level 60 does less damage than a level 50 to a particular boss" is completely false and fabricated by those with an agenda. I've tested this myself with 4 Berserkers at different levels and being a higher level does not make you do less damage to a boss (Tested on Fire Dragon). I am mentioning this because this is what I believed until I tested it myself.

    This spread of false information is shameful and needs to stop. The developer should come out with the exact detail breakdown of how Fair Fight is being applied to clear up this misunderstanding.

    It's the majority actually and they made most of the content trivial when they decided to level you past every dungeon until level 50. I play a knight and I was punished for going off the main quest line by doing things like exploring, minigames, and life skills gaining exp and overleveling which punished me in the regular dungeons why am I being punished for leveling up isn't that the opposite of what should happen in an RPG? It's not just here people on reddit have calculated the numbers and shown that yes you are punished for leveling to 60 Nexon has already acknowledged it to be a problem and are looking into it.
    NakazatoJL
  • SaryrnSaryrn
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    edited 1:40PM October 21, 2018
    +1 for removing fair fight or it being optional. Then those psykos who actually want to slog through old content like it was current content can do so and the rest of us can remove it and be rewarded for upgrading our characters.
    Developers have already stated it is an issue @60 so the vocal minoarity are those people wanting fair fight to stay in game and the majoarity wants to see it gone.
    Edit: and for the love of god stop bringing up GW2 as a good example of how fair fight could work. GW2 has no gear threadmill, it is all about masteries. Not feeling stronger when you equip better gear makes equipping better gear pointless. So either remove better gear or remove/redesign fair fight cause atm it is terrible
    NakazatoJL
  • MeteoMeteo
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    Its hard to vote yes or no, I honestly love the idea of Fair Fight, but what it does NOW, and how it functions currently is kind of annoying. I'd rather it STAY but nerfed compared what it is right now. 1 shoting anything in a HARD DUNGEON+ really is going to make the game go south in many ways, and people asking/selling for carries is going to skyrocket, then people are going to start only buying mesos, never learning dungeons, etc.
  • EternalxEternalx
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    edited 10:30PM October 21, 2018
    Keep for bosses remove for dungeons.
  • EternalxEternalx
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    ACO wrote: »

    Developers should not listen to a subset of small but vocal minority aiming to sabotage the game play experience for the rest of the player base. Player should not be allowed to bypass content. They should have the right to choose to participate in the said content, however they should never be allowed to not participate and still receive the benefit.

    Sorry to break it to you, but you're part of the vocal minority here. This spread of false information is shameful and needs to stop.

    85% and over 700 votes is considered minority? Please learn statistics.

    SaryrnNakazatoJL
  • AynixAynix
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    edited 7:31AM October 22, 2018
    Eternalx wrote: »
    ACO wrote: »

    Developers should not listen to a subset of small but vocal minority aiming to sabotage the game play experience for the rest of the player base. Player should not be allowed to bypass content. They should have the right to choose to participate in the said content, however they should never be allowed to not participate and still receive the benefit.

    Sorry to break it to you, but you're part of the vocal minority here. This spread of false information is shameful and needs to stop.

    85% and over 700 votes is considered minority? Please learn statistics.

    Considering MS2 just hit 1 MILION players milestone, yes, 700 votes is NOTHING. There can be 700 people crying about FF on forum and 50000 people in the game that likes it (ofc they wont go to Forum to just say they like FF, why would they)
  • ACOACO
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    edited 1:48PM October 22, 2018
    Eternalx wrote: »
    Sorry to break it to you, but you're part of the vocal minority here. This spread of false information is shameful and needs to stop.

    Setting aside the Fair Fight discussion and the implementation of the system for now, I want to try to address your point, clarify my "minority" statement, and to really prevent this discussion from devolving into a name calling contest.
    Eternalx wrote: »
    85% and over 700 votes is considered minority? Please learn statistics.

    I reread what I posted and realized I wasn't clear on what I meant by "minority" so I want to try to explain my reasoning.
    There are several reasons as to why I used the term minority, I will list some of them below:

    1) Maplestory 2 has seen over a million players since the official launch on October 10th. There are currently 700 voters in favor of removing the Fair Fight system, but let's round that up to 1,000 votes in favor of removal to make this point clear. 1,000 out of 1,000,000 is 0.1%. That's less than 1% of the population.

    2) Satisfied players/users/consumers are often quiet and content. While those that are dissatisfied are often loud - and they have every reason to be. Things aren't going to change by being quiet so you have to make yourself heard.

    My point in mentioning this is that it would be inaccurate and poses multiple concerns to take the sample of voters in this thread and argue that this sample is representative of the entire population.

    My background isn't rooted in pure statistical methods so I might not be up to speed with newer methodologies, but we have to be very careful with our assumptions particularly when working with such a small sample size that is potentially prone to biased sampling. Statistically, any meaningful overview extracted from this poll needs to be scrutinized to make sure that, at the very least, crucial assumptions underlying the methodology is not violated.

    All in all, red flags and alarms goes off in my head when I see posts claiming that the consensus in this thread is representative of the entire population.

    And, as a final note, I want to see Fair Fight changed just as much as most of you do. I see the value behind the concept of Fair Fight, but I also acknowledge that the current implementation is less than ideal. We should give constructive criticisms of the current system and how can the developers improve without forsaking the entire system.


  • AngelicaxoxoAngelicaxoxo
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    Would definitely like to see it removed, especially for dungeons.
  • EternalxEternalx
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    edited 2:48AM October 23, 2018
    It doesn't matter if there are a million players, as the current poll indicates that we have a statistically significant number of people who agree that FF must go (or altered). Practically, it is impossible to sample the whole population, so you have to deal with a representative amount. By your logic, all academic research would be invalid because you cannot possibly sample everyone with depression for example. Does that, however, mean that the obtained information on the surveyed patients is invalid? Seriously.

    With that said, thank you @ACO for the polite response. I apologize if my earlier reply came off as hostile.
    NakazatoJL
  • AynixAynix
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    As long Nexon wont make poll inside the game, we will never know if, in fact, said "significant number" want to remove it. I can bet my left kidney that 85% of the game population just... doesnt give a damn about it.
  • FrickFrick
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    Tbf I think it should be removed completely
  • GoddixaGoddixa
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    edited 7:21AM October 23, 2018
    80% Of Population doesn't even know what Fairfight System is, 70% of Population doesn't even know that such a System Exists.

    SO those who don't know that such a system exists, won't ever get loud and express themself in Forums.

    Let a Mass Mail sent to ALL players, saying the following:

    Hey grettings, we have reduced your DAMAGE because you reached lv.60, we call this Fairfight System.
    If you don't like this, please goto Forums and be Loud.


    Watch how this Thread gets flooded when that happens.

    Have a good Day :)
    Yuiko20
  • EternalxEternalx
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    Aynix wrote: »
    As long Nexon wont make poll inside the game, we will never know if, in fact, said "significant number" want to remove it. I can bet my left kidney that 85% of the game population just... doesnt give a damn about it.

    Significant as in statistically significant from the sampled population ... lol.

    https://www.dummies.com/education/math/statistics/u-can-statistics-for-dummies-cheat-sheet/
  • CariseiCarisei
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    edited 5:38PM October 23, 2018
    Well we've gotten Fair Fight addressed.
    forums.maplestory2.nexon.net/discussion/41049/state-of-the-game-week-2-by-jungsoo-lee
    Feels like they've very selectively picked at the opinions about the mechanic that have been posted.
  • KewkkyKewkky
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    Carisei wrote: »
    We'll we've gotten Fair Fight addressed.
    forums.maplestory2.nexon.net/discussion/41049/state-of-the-game-week-2-by-jungsoo-lee
    Feels like they've very selectively picked at the opinions about the mechanic that have been posted.

    They said they would change it again so as to not hurt the fragile ego of lv60 undergeared people. Every lv60 player should be seeing a damage increase.
  • MrSmilesMrSmiles
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    +1 to Removing it out of dungeons and keeping it for world bosses

    Ridiculous that you are forcibly gimped for basically playing the game.
    And if you get a daily mission for a low level dungeon you gotta slowly grind through it again even though I should breeze through it is dumb.
  • SentineIsSentineIs
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    Aruraune wrote: »
    I'd say like, not to remove but to adjust it to a smaller reduction.

    World Bosses are not meant to die in 10 seconds, the reward should be better for Fair Fight. For World Bosses the Fair Fight should scale based on the number of players around the boss when it spawns, being 1 player = no Fair Fight at all.

    I also think that it's fine to have Fair Fight on dungeons while in a party to avoid high level parties carry services.

    Only problem I see with this is that it would completely ruin world boss channel rotations. Just a rando lvl 60 with maxed out gear, deleting bosses on certain channels, screwing over the people trying to level with it.

    World bosses should remain fairfight.

    I would be okay with fairfight being removed from dungeons so long as they figured out a way to prevent insanely geared people from making the grind inconsequential for their friends by deleting the boss. (A good way for bots to also level up and gear up).

    I would like Hardmode dungeons of lowbie dungeons tbh. A lot of them are fun to do, but your health makes the threat inconsequential.

  • FeidaFeida
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    Fairfight definitely has its fair share of benefits and negatives, but having it removed will come with its own set of upsides/downsides.

    To be honest, I think the best to solution is to find a compromise to implement both sides of this. Give players the option to opt in/out of Fairfight with varying benefits being present on both sides.

    Having Fairfight off could disable the ability to "queue" for older dungeons, but it would allow you to steamroll through the content while providing less awards, as well as less awarded EXP to the low-level players that choose to accompany you. The tradeoff here is faster clear times at the cost of fewer rewards, as well as providing a mental motive for the low-level player as they witness a higher level player's strength.

    After Fairfight receives the tuning it needs, I hope it receives a more direct design change.
  • InfinitysDaughterInfinitysDaughter
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    Feida wrote: »
    Fairfight definitely has its fair share of benefits and negatives, but having it removed will come with its own set of upsides/downsides.

    To be honest, I think the best to solution is to find a compromise to implement both sides of this. Give players the option to opt in/out of Fairfight with varying benefits being present on both sides.

    Having Fairfight off could disable the ability to "queue" for older dungeons, but it would allow you to steamroll through the content while providing less awards, as well as less awarded EXP to the low-level players that choose to accompany you. The tradeoff here is faster clear times at the cost of fewer rewards, as well as providing a mental motive for the low-level player as they witness a higher level player's strength.

    After Fairfight receives the tuning it needs, I hope it receives a more direct design change.

    To expand on this, and forgive me for using the obvious example, but in WoW you cant que for lower level dungeons but you can travel there and enter that way with your party. This is helpful for guilds trying to help level up lower level guildmates and alt accounts as well as farming mats for certain professions.

    However they have "Heroic" dungeons when you hit level cap. These are the same dungeons as the lower level ones but the mobs are leveled up to cap, damage is increased, and fight mechanics are different. Heroic dungeons give better gear, more experience, and other special items.

    I know some people would say this is "stealing" but, personally, a game thats been around for almost 15 years and has gone through a lot of trial and error might be on to something. And, again personally, I think the "Regular/Heroic" dynamic is the best mechanic for this kind of thing. It dosn't punish lower level players (and may be helpful even) but it does reward higher level players.
  • EternalxEternalx
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    I would like to bring this issue forward again. I do not think the 10% buff justify FF staying in hard dungeons.
    Tele