Check out the patch notes for the v18 Kritias Expansion here: http://forums.maplestory2.nexon.net/discussion/45974

I don't understand the level progression

SnowPastelSnowPastel
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edited 12:33PM October 21, 2018 in General Chat
While I love Maplestory 2, the level progression really bugs me.
When I started to play, I was disappointed by how fast it is to reach level 50 (what is called the "Intro"). Personally it took me a week to reach level 50, but I've heard of someone reaching it in only 7 hours...
And then the end game content is condensed between levels 50 to 60.

In the Korean version, players who are level 80+ are doing level 60 dungeons, it's just...strange (+ I can't imagine how boring it would become with fairfight).
Basically, Nexon wants us to rush levels 1 to 50, only to focus on levels 50-60 using fairfight afterwards.

When we look at Victoria Island, it is possible to get to level 50 without exploring at least half of the map because it's so fast, so it's not a problem of content.

Why not spread the level progression in Victoria Island in 80 levels instead of 50 (for example) just by slowing down the progression there, and remove fairfight? It shouldn't be hard at all to do (we could use the extra maps to reach the next levels for example)...
Why is it so...unsmooth?

With pictures, I'm wondering why we have this:
1540153616-pic1.png

When we could have this:
1540153658-pic2.png

I really don't understand.
Itsahme

Comments

  • DigitalcatDigitalcat
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    edited 12:54PM October 21, 2018
    Kinda funny this topic has come up, it's a good one actually as it does have a bit of history behind it, And that is that they've tried already making it a lot longer on the Korean one a while ago, but quickly changed it. I think and that is the keyword "think" the mentality behind this, or the main reason of this progression is to make levelling, and catching up so much faster for the new players to bring them faster to the end-game. Maple Story 2's progression system is vastly different to the first one and it's really difficult to even see them as the same.

    I think the concern mostly is, is that they want to find a baseline to just enough grind as well as time to make it to end game and borderline too grindy. I think they are really trying to look perhaps a bit into the future where they wish to mitigate the game becoming too tedious, which is what the biggest complaint with the first game was. Some loved it, and some hated it, and it surely blocked off a lot of new potential players.
    SnowPastel
  • NikynoonooNikynoonoo
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    I got to say I was a little disappointed by how fast it was as well a part of me wonders if they only did this for global because you see that the regular quests around the world give so little exp and don't scale to your level while the life skills do and the main quest gives a ton of exp making me think they didn't want you to even bother exploring there is so much of the map you don't even touch if you just follow the main story. I think there is even a job trainer that has been made pointless because they just gave us the job right away I think they were so concerned with the game being seen as tedious and grindy that they went the other extreme which was make levels not matter. The first maplestory seemed more tedious because there was a lot less variety of what you could do in it when compared to this game which could have easily helped supplement the grind by making it so you weren't just focusing on grinding the whole time.
    SnowPastel
  • ItsahmeItsahme
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    I have no clue what fairfight is, I thought level 60 was max. I agree that the leveling is fast and by reading your post it isn't even considered to be part of the real game experience, I find that weird. I'm having fun leveling up without rushing but will the game "end" for me when I am beyond level 60 then? I am confused.
    I like your suggestion but when is the end game?
  • SnowPastelSnowPastel
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    edited 1:02PM October 21, 2018
    Itsahme wrote: »
    I have no clue what fairfight is, I thought level 60 was max. I agree that the leveling is fast and by reading your post it isn't even considered to be part of the real game experience, I find that weird. I'm having fun leveling up without rushing but will the game "end" for me when I am beyond level 60 then? I am confused.
    I like your suggestion but when is the end game?

    Fairfight is a mechanic that reduces your damage if you're higher level than the monsters you're attacking. So if you're level 90 and you attack a monster level 60, you would do almost the same damage as if you were level 60, making the progression to level 90 useless.
    Also, I expect the maximum level to be raised to 99 in the next updates as it is the current maximum in the Korean version.
  • DigitalcatDigitalcat
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    edited 1:04PM October 21, 2018
    Itsahme wrote: »
    I have no clue what fairfight is, I thought level 60 was max. I agree that the leveling is fast and by reading your post it isn't even considered to be part of the real game experience, I find that weird. I'm having fun leveling up without rushing but will the game "end" for me when I am beyond level 60 then? I am confused.
    I like your suggestion but when is the end game?

    Fair fight is when your Items and Gear get scaled back in dungeons that are under your level to deliver a more balanced experience in said dungeon, so basically see it as your gear score as well as damage being set to a fixed number that is the top for that dungeon, it's so you don't one hit everything, some people enjoy it, other not so much, it's up to you to form a opinion over this! :P

    End game is traditionally in every MMO the content after level cap that is focused to keep you playing until next patch, dungeons, extra quests, gear that can only be obtained by doing max level dungeons and so on.
  • LuminaEdgeLuminaEdge
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    I'm level 60, still upgrading my gear. My damage is still increasing with every successful weapon enchant and gear change i make at the Lv 50 hard dungeons. Its nowhere near as bad as people have made it out to be.

    That said, i really don't mind the current progression. We just have to remember that this game was based on a game with a very low level cap at first and eventually got revamped to make progression smoother and so that newer players could catch up to the existing playerbase.

    They tested reducing epic xp gain and it seems like the player base generally didn't like it. Plus people just played more music to get past those unimportant levels. People don't stop to do content when level grinding is involved, they simply beeline to the most efficient course of action and keep going.

    For example, in MS1, back before big bang. for the LV 50-70 people had the option of grinding, doing Orbis PQ, or Ludi Maze PQ. Tons of content, but in the end. Most grind maps and Orbis PQ stayed dead and everyone flocked to the Ludi Maze just to grind and get past that level range quicker because it was most effective.

    Making people slow down to use all the content sounds good on paper but all it really does is drive the player base to search for whats optimal and ignore everything else. That's why being straightforward with epic quests ended up being their choice. Because otherwise more people would have sat around playing music for levels.... even if you nerfed its xp gain comparably.

    Also it seems weird to just take existing content and stretch it out over more levels... thats what MMOs do when theres NOT enough content . If you stretched the existing content out from 1-80... you'd end up with all the new content being slated for lv 80+ going forward, or just increasing the level cap for no real reason other than to fit new stuff in.
    LockeExile
  • KaezoxKaezox
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    edited 4:49PM October 21, 2018
    Level means nothing in kms2. Lvl 70 is the soft cap level. Then it exponentially takes alot to get to lvl 71 and increases much each level. The reason why people run 60 dungeons is because that is the highest dungeon. Kms2 has no fair fight. Gms2 fairfight doesnt apply to chaos raids. Hard dungeons take 30 seconds in kms2 they just farm them on alts and do chaos raids.without fairfight with maxed chaos raid gear it will be a 30 sec run for hard dungeons. Then what? You want it that easy?

    It will take years to reach lvl 90.
  • LockeExileLockeExile
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    Not having much mmorpg experience outside of MS1, it took me a while to realize that there are other forms of progression outside of level. In MS2, level progression is only the first part of the game, and then gear progression takes over. I have my own reservations about this system but that's how it is and it sorta makes sense. (And then there are games like Mabinogi where level doesn't matter at all as you continually reset it to train your skills, which I actually quite like.)

    What doesn't make sense to me though is why they gate so many other things that aren't tied to gear progression until after the level progression part is done. Things like pets and daily missions. Having so much content stacked at level 50 puts a ton of pressure on players to rush there, skipping most of the pre-50 content.
  • TeisutoTeisuto
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    I feel like making leveling easy, at least for the first 50 levels, helps in bringing and keeping new players (especially those that are new to mmo's, because if it's too difficult to level they might just quit without even reaching cap). Anyways, gear score is what really matters in the game, and I've seen people who aren't max level have a higher gear score than a level 60.
  • _Lil_Puddin__Lil_Puddin_
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    I understand what they were going for. They want people to play the story mode and not worry about there being any gaps between the story. They also want more than 1 way to level a character. It is very possible for someone to skip Epic Quests and do World Quests/Exploration Goals to level for a slower but more fun experience. People can also just play Maple Crossing/Maple Factory/Maple Party/etc. to level if they wanted to.

    But the game feels like its pushing people too hard into Epic Quests. Epic Quests can't exactly be skipped, since doing that puts your character way behind for mainline quests and it shoves all class gear into your lap. So after you level your character through other means, you have to go through the (boring) motions of completing super old quests. Of course, if you do the Epic Quests, then you have to go through the motions of beating old World Quests. Even with Fair Fight making things challenging, it feels unfulfilling/boring to go back and do old dungeons/boss fights/etc.

    I propose to keep Epic Quests as they are for our 1st character. Like, our 1st character we get to level 15. So this way we can play through the story seamlessly if we wish or level normally. For every other character, it would be -50% EXP from Epics (tapering from level 15-25 until it's -50% of what it is now) which means other things will have to be done for leveling.

    Then ofc revamp EXP distribution overall:
    1) Boost Treasure Chest EXP by 2% and boost their spawn timers by 12%; perhaps add 1 to 2 more locations per map. "Find Golden Chests in *specific location*" will now always spawn a Golden Treasure Chest in those location, but those particular chests will drop wood tier prizes instead of gold tier prizes.
    2) Boost World Quest EXP by 33%.
    3) Boost Exploration Goal EXP by 1.25%.
    4) Boost Life Skills EXP (mining, ranching, etc) by 6%.
    5) Boost Side Skills (fishing, performing, etc) by 1.25%.
    6) Boost EXP from World/Elite Monsters by 5%. ALSO! Defeating them for the 1st time gives 33% more EXP than usual.
    7) Boost EXP from dungeons by 5%. ALSO! Clearing a dungeon for the 1st time (per character) gives 33% more EXP than usual.

    Lastly, remove 20%-33% of Fair Fight's penalty. It's a clever mechanic given how the levels are condensed between 1-100 instead of 1-200; it deters botters/hackers too (if they ever pop up). But it is too harsh, especially against certain classes like fragile-Thief or gear-heavy-to-deal-good-damage-Knight.