Check out the patch notes for the v17 Precursor Update here: http://maplestory2.nexon.net/en/news/article/53778/precursor-update-v17

Petition to Remove Fair Fight

Comments

  • XenociderOmegaXenociderOmega
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    edited 6:35AM October 18, 2018
    It should be changed a little bit and stay for world bosses but removed from dungeons completely
  • AynixAynix
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    edited 6:39AM October 18, 2018
    Goddixa wrote: »
    Aynix wrote: »
    "Dungeon" players - can run dungeons as much as they want
    The only thing you care about is gear. Running dungeon just FOR FUN? Ewww!

    So you are telling me smething like this:

    Goto Work, work 8 hours a day and 40 a week and at the end of Month, don't get paid and enjoy Life and have FUN.

    makes totaly no sense sorry.

    So you are telling me "fishing" players fish NOT because its fun for them but because they profit from it? You want to tell me Music Players compose music NOT because they are enjoing it but because they want profit? Even House Builders are not making their house cool because they enjoy it, right? I though "dungeon players" want to run dungeons, silly me!
    Running dungeons just for an enjoyment?! BLASPHEMY!!
    *GIVE ME MY LOOT! REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE*
  • GoddixaGoddixa
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    edited 6:41AM October 18, 2018
    Aynix wrote: »
    Goddixa wrote: »
    Aynix wrote: »
    "Dungeon" players - can run dungeons as much as they want
    The only thing you care about is gear. Running dungeon just FOR FUN? Ewww!

    So you are telling me smething like this:

    Goto Work, work 8 hours a day and 40 a week and at the end of Month, don't get paid and enjoy Life and have FUN.

    makes totaly no sense sorry.

    So you are telling me "fishing" players fish NOT because its fun for them but because they profit from it? You want to tell me Music Players compose music NOT because they are enjoing it but because they want profit? Even House Builders are not making their house cool because they enjoy it, right? I though "dungeon players" want to run dungeons, silly me!
    Running dungeons just for an enjoyment?! BLASPHEMY!!
    *GIVE ME MY LOOT! REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE*

    You are either a troll or a Fanboy but i will take my time to deal with you.

    Here is it:

    Music Players make progress
    Fishing Players make progress
    House Builders make progress and have Rankings
    i can go on but thats enough.

    Now Dungeon Players can't progress even if they keep farming the Dungeons after the Cap.

    Have a Good day :)
  • AynixAynix
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    Just make alts ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
  • GoddixaGoddixa
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    Aynix wrote: »
    Just make alts ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

    Not gonna bother with you anymore, you are a troll to me, you have no arguments and no solutions, all you do is trolling here.

    Bye.
  • zimuyozimuyo
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    +1 to this thread. What's the point in leveling up if your stats are being taken away by this "Fair" fight system?
    Nikynoonoo
  • 3san3san
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    The “Fair Fight” system, which prevents players of high level from eliminating world bosses and defeating dungeons in quick succession, has been a very controversial topic discussed frequently throughout the community. Many of these discussions bring up the suggestion of removing the system all together, but before that happens, we must establish alternative methods which both solve the issues that the Fair Fight system is aimed to resolve, as well as the issues it brings to the game itself.

    In order to do this, however, we must first ponder the reasons for why Nexon implemented the Fair Fight system in the first place. In general, as stated previously, the Fair Fight system is meant to prevent players from completing dungeons and killing world bosses in a very short amount of time. However, this could cover many different scenarios. For example, if a higher level player plays through a dungeon with a lower level player, the higher level player will most likely end up doing all the work in such a quick manner that the lower level player has no chance of contributing to the completion of the dungeon. As a result, the lower level player essentially does not have to do anything in terms of the dungeon’s objectives, but will still receive the rewards with little to no effort and time spent by him/her. But by placing a cap on the higher level player through the Fair Fight system, both the lower and higher level player must contribute their fair share of effort in order to complete the dungeon in a timely fashion, instead of the higher level player just sweeping through it in a few minutes or seconds. Another issue the Fair Fight system addresses is world bosses. If there was no system in place to prevent higher level players from obliterating world bosses, it would be almost impossible for anyone, especially lower level players, to deal enough damage to the boss to be eligible for rewards.

    Of course, despite how the Fair Fight system addresses these important issues, it does cause some other problems, as expressed by the community. A majority of players would agree that it it is unfair that the Fair Fight system makes it very hard for players to complete dungeons and receive their rewards despite them working hard for better gear and statistics for their characters which, in theory, should be able to defeat dungeon bosses and enemies very quickly. Not only that, but due to a bug with the Fair Fight system, characters can actually become weaker when their level is over the minimum level required for a specific dungeon.

    So how do we solve the issue of lower level players being effortlessly carried through dungeons and receiving the rewards, while still allowing higher level players to complete dungeons at a rate which is appropriate to their character’s level and gear? Well, here are my few suggestions:
    - Queing players with other players of similar level, and preventing players from entering a dungeon together if the gap between their levels is too large
    - Reducing the rewards of certain players in a party if the gap between the level of the highest and second highest leveled players is too large

    I understand that these are in no way flawless, but they are simply rough ideas of how to address the issues of the Fair Fight system. If you have any other suggestions, please post them in this thread. And if you disagree or have issues with something discussed in this thread, please argue your case in a respectful manner. Thank you!
    Goddixa
  • WooberWoober
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    Just made an archer, with a +7 weapon at level 50 I did 3k per arrow with Rapid Shot against Fire Dragon.

    Got my weapon to +13 and hit level 58. My damage? 3.6k per arrow with Rapid Shot against Fire Dragon.

    This is RIDICULOUS.
    Nikynoonoo
  • astronotastronot
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    better solution:
    *queue for dungeon party*
    - dungeon prioritizes finding similar lvl players, add option to toggle this setting
    > found party, party w similar lvl players: no fair fight
    or
    > queue times out, msg stating u'll be partied w lower lvl players: fair fight on

    and for solo no fair fight

    ez
    3sanPrecookedEagleGoddixa
  • KewkkyKewkky
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    edited 3:54PM October 18, 2018
    The worst part is that it only reduces your damage. The damage you take and your HP pool remain unchanged, so it's not like monsters "remain being a challenge". Things just become tedious instead.
    PrecookedEagle
  • MolllyMollly
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    Thendriks wrote: »
    The design philosophy of "Fair Fight" or any form of scaling game content is a very good addition to the game if it is done right.

    The reason "Fair Fight" should exist is simple: Old game content can be revisited, is still enjoyable and adds to character progression.

    Now here is the problem... "Fair Fight" in CBT2 does not encourage experienced players to revisit old content.

    Example:
    15 minutes of world boss fiesta gives the player absolutely no challenge and insignificant rewards.
    15 minutes in a hard dungeon gives the player a real challenge and about 60x more rewards.
    The reward to time scaling is off ...

    Now someone could say:"But the reward to challenge ratio is right. And that is good for the overall game economy and enjoyment in the greater picture." Well ... it is NOT good because it is unfun.

    If you hit level 50 -> Open world content is time consuming and not rewarding. Low level dungeons are time consuming, not rewarding AND hamper progression through high level dungeons with the shared lockout counter. The whole game is condensed into a colourful chat box, 3 dungeons and a hand full menial tasks per day. Meanwhile 99% of the open world map is left deserted because there is nothing to do and if there is something to do it is a grand waste of time.

    And here comes the new "Fair Fight". I would suggest a world wide player and reward scaling mechanic. Hiyate (a few posts higher up) has already mentioned Guild Wars 2, the great scaling mechanics and an idea for higher quality gear to keep the challenge up. Regional quests, currency and reward vendors would be great for this game.

    TL;DR
    Getting scaled down should feel natural and still rewarding. Low level game content needs to be relevant.

    Feels rewarding??? Leveling up and getting better gear should be rewarding too. But now, you level up, get better gear, but get punished instead. IDK how you find cancer rewarding. Someone who spends time getting better in dungeons and increasing their GS is already limited by a 30 run weekly cap, now, they're even more so limited by doing less damage even though they spent all that time and effort trying to get bigger.

    Makes no sense.
  • MolllyMollly
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    LMAO at all the people who think fair fight should be kept.
    Aynix wrote: »
    "Dungeon" players - can run dungeons as much as they want
    The only thing you care about is gear. Running dungeon just FOR FUN? Ewww!
    Who are you to judge other people based off of what they think is fun and not fun? Most of these people are just selfish and inconsiderate of others. They want fair fight kept because it doesn't affect them. Some will say "oh but dungeons should be more challenging even when I out gear them," then you should be voting on making fair fight optional instead. If you want to spend the extra time running dungeons then go for it, I don't see why the rest of us who want to run them faster because we have the gear to do so shouldn't be allowed to.

    So what if a lot of us care about gear, should we go make fun of the people who sit around and do nothing all day? If yall wanna sit around and chit chat all day long, then do that, I don't see why yall are judging and happy to see us get punished for wanting to be properly rewarded for the things we should be rewarded on. Higher gear but doing same damage as someone 10 levels lower than you and has way worse gear? Plain stupid. I understand why it would make sense having them in world bosses, so strong players don't go killing low level bosses, but it makes absolutely no sense to have them mandatory inside raids. We spend time so we can get stronger, yet we get punished for doing so. You want to make successful raids feel more rewarding by making them challenging? We already know how to do the raids, all you're doing by keeping fair fight is making them more tedious. This ain't no reward or feeling of accomplishment.
  • FeverJawsFeverJaws
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    edited 11:55PM October 18, 2018
    seriously fair fight is the worst system that exist. it completly invalidate gear progression beyond a specific point and that point seems to be 4000 gearscore. or a 10+ wep is normally where i have found it to be useless. obviously this only happens when your lvl 60 vs a lvl 50 boss. but atm when monsters/bosses in dungeons are lvl 50 its kind of pointless going beyond even 3k Gs. because of the dmg,i have been doing 3-4k hits for a while even through my Attack is now 4028. which should make my dmg 4-5k or higher. which it doesnt do
  • EternalxEternalx
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    edited 10:30PM October 21, 2018
    Please keep this thread PG.
  • SyncedSynced
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    Why the actual F. is Dungeoncap being (stupidly) changed before Fairfight is getting taken out??? Nexooooon hello? Residentsleepers? .. Honestly at the beginning i was so Hyped but now 20days later it feels like they're just downgrading.
  • 3san3san
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    Synced wrote: »
    Why the actual F. is Dungeoncap being (stupidly) changed before Fairfight is getting taken out??? Nexooooon hello? Residentsleepers? .. Honestly at the beginning i was so Hyped but now 20days later it feels like they're just downgrading.

    Why would changing the dungeon cap before Fair Fight be stupid? And besides, they did say that they are still working on the dungeon cap and Fair Fight, but the changes they are going to implement in November are only a temporary “band-aid” solution while they work on a better solution.
  • SyncedSynced
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    3san wrote: »
    Synced wrote: »
    Why the actual F. is Dungeoncap being (stupidly) changed before Fairfight is getting taken out??? Nexooooon hello? Residentsleepers? .. Honestly at the beginning i was so Hyped but now 20days later it feels like they're just downgrading.

    Why would changing the dungeon cap before Fair Fight be stupid? And besides, they did say that they are still working on the dungeon cap and Fair Fight, but the changes they are going to implement in November are only a temporary “band-aid” solution while they work on a better solution.

    cuz imo the dungeon cap system isnt that big of a issue, especially not if there was no fairfight then we would be able to complete the dungeons much faster and it would be fine to run em with alts as well.
    3san
  • SnowPastelSnowPastel
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    I could write paragraphs about why it should be removed, but for now I'm just gonna say: please remove it from dungeons.
  • SeasiderSeasider
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    edited 11:51AM October 21, 2018
    After having played every day now since headstart, I definitely want to see fair fight in dungeons gone. When I get better gear, I want to be able to clear previous content faster. Farming dungeons takes so long, especially when you have alts, isn't clearing faster a good, rewarding thing after you've spent a bunch of time grinding your gear? Fair fight is fine for world bosses but it really just serves to be tedious and unrewarding in dungeons.
  • ACOACO
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    I don't understand why some people are so against playing the game. Some of the arguments stated above makes sense in terms of wanting to feel progression and I agree with some of them. But the majority of the argument for the removal of Fair Fight simply boils down to wanting to skip contents - It's almost as if they want to put in work and effort to obtain better gears just to be exempt from participating in content they deemed boring or tedious. Devaluing or trivializing content like this is how you create a game full of contents and nothing to do.

    What is the point of having a Knight or a Priest in your party if Fair Fight is removed? Just go full DPS and clear the map in 2 mins, assuming you are geared enough and the dungeon mechanic doesn't required multiple class/players.
    The game should not cater to those wanting fast clear at the cost of trivializing contents. At some point the power creep will become so extreme that there will little point to engage the community and party and this goes against the core principles of Maplestory 2. There are many ways to enable players to feel "progression" without resorting to the removal of Fair Fight.

    Developers should not listen to a subset of small but vocal minority aiming to sabotage the game play experience for the rest of the player base. Player should not be allowed to bypass content. They should have the right to choose to participate in the said content, however they should never be allowed to not participate and still receive the benefit.

    Introduce a soft cap to enable progression or relax the criteria at which Fair Fight comes into play , but do not remove Fair Fight.

    Note: The current false information of "Given the same gear and skill investment, a level 60 does less damage than a level 50 to a particular boss" is completely false and fabricated by those with an agenda. I've tested this myself with 4 Berserkers at different levels and being a higher level does not make you do less damage to a boss (Tested on Fire Dragon). I am mentioning this because this is what I believed until I tested it myself.

    This spread of false information is shameful and needs to stop. The developer should come out with the exact detail breakdown of how Fair Fight is being applied to clear up this misunderstanding.