Azuchi wrote: »
This is why i am strongly disagreeing with everyone, Having unlimited access to the dungeons won't make it P2W It gives us more incentive to farm, the drop rates are already low as heck so it would be pretty fine.
Rezi wrote: »
You completely ignored everything I and others have said.
1. You, personally, won't spend all day every day oversaturating the market with an excess of high-end gear, but the vast majority of players that use the unlimited service will. Most people don't stop while they're ahead - they keep getting ahead.
2. Flippers are already inflating prices by flipping every single item they can. They've already made enough money to flip high-end gears, and they 100% will do so any chance they get.
3. Inflation is when the value of currency decreases and the value of products and services increase. This means that players will need more money to buy any given item, which means they'll grind for more money.
In real life, this isn't an issue because currency production is limited by the federal government and the acquisition of currency by the people is limited by their wages or other federally limited methods, which means that if a government overproduces its currency, the economy will simply collapse.
But in games, currency can be infinitely gained through monsters, dailies, and other aspects of the game that generate currency from thin air. This infinite currency cannot be artificially limited without destroying the game's entire framework of design, which means that players who are able to generate that money en masse - such as bots>goldsellers and unlimited runners like you're suggesting - will be the sole generators of excess currency helping the flippers infinitely inflate the economy.
You're the one who doesn't understand basic economics, and neither do developers - because they're developers, not economists. That's why developers keep up this broken system that always leads to infinite inflation, because it's what every other developer does and they don't know any better. Then flippers, goldsellers, and P2Wers with unlimited access infinitely inflate the economy and the playerbase leaves, killing the game.
I don't understand why you're not getting this when everyone is telling you that this is the case.
kitomisaitichi wrote: »
Currency is not unlimited, Currency comes at a fixed rate per T unit of time spent on the game.
kitomisaitichi wrote: »
What is everyone winning here? A PvE game and a small leaderboard that only the most elite of the elite guilds care about. You can choose to spend more time or money, it's a pretty good trade off. The additional time and money is well-balanced. You can get extremely fast mounts in game, or buy them. You can only grind movement speed buffs through the prestige system. You can get some small EXP buff and teleport instantly or heals more. If anything, this is merely pay to save time. You still need to grind your #ss off to get your gear. All in all, the hours that you save on spending money on this game, and the additional small awards like getting trophies for having all instruments and being a few ranks more on your leaderboard for the guild is hardly pay2win. Winning implies you are comparing yourself relative to other players in some general competitive aspect that everyone cares about like PvP, some fuzzy leaderboard rankings and being in the top 0.2% of players with a high skill level to dodge attacks, high level of attack execution and generous funds for some HP potions running in some limited time dungeon giving some 2 week expiry belt and a small temporary buff potion in my eyes is not going to make you the #1 leader of PvE. Everyone will be able to do raids, everyone will be able to do dungeons, exactly how is it p2w when everyone is progressing almost at the same linear rate proportional to their time investment, exception of RNG?
The 20% Xp buff and premium dungeon mesos, yes is an advantage, but measurably, relative to F2Ps how much more relative to the baseline is it so much so that any generic F2P and normal P2P player is going to be that much more different..? Unless you are at the elite level, investing 6-12hrs/day, which the majority are not I can hardly fanthom why this even matters. At that level you are already determined to spend on whatever advantages you can get, and you are willing to take days off work/family/friends to be on that #1 clear or leaderboard or some silly thing that the rest of the playerbase doesn't even care about.
There is no truth. The truth is people are complaining about comparing relative players' level of progress when these people aren't even adding them to their friend's lists to check on them every week to be jealous or envious, and the majority of people are playing with their same group/friends/guild throughout the game. Casuals with casuals, hardcores with hardcores. Nobody gives a flying @ss that you got a +15 set gear because you made 6 accounts with 8 alts and activated premium on all of them, and mereted your way to every B4 dungeon unless you are hardcore hardcore, which already does not describe the average player in this game. The truth is people have the need to complain about every monetization scheme or business practice of every game when they are not willing to put the time into the game, or time into real life. If they really valued whatever they truely valued, they would of spend the time in the game or real life to get that money, or in-game currency to trade to get that unique snowflake costume. The reality is, artificial scarcity, uniqueness, rarity and getting advantages is a prime motive of many paying individuals and using that doesn't mean the game is automatically worse. This is why people argue about the magnitude of it, how much of it is necessary to do anything in this game, etc - and in my eyes, this game cannot be said to be p2w.
You're not going to generate a bajillion onyx from simply being a paying player, you also have to be a playing player. If you're playing, you will already have some sense of achievement for yourself to return to the game. The truth is, statistically speaking, free to pay players are not going to be playing with pay to pay players the majority of the time besides the dungeon queue for generic dungeons. Yes, there are many people who do pick-up groups, but anyone can notice founders mostly were in founder guilds and had mostly founder requirements like high gear scores or trophies of which founder advantages conferred and selected for the most at the beginning. Paying players are most likely to have friends in real life who also have jobs, and also enjoy games, and also spend money. Same as obese people, same as any type of people because most people become friends with people who are similar to them. So I cannot see how paying and free to play players are going to hate themselves against one another.
F2P players already determined at the beginning either they will spend when they feel they derive sufficient satisfaction in the game to warrant them to pay to get more advantages, or more social status from nicer cosmetics, or whatever things they more value as they play more while P2P players either have a lower threshold before they need spending, already derive greater satisifaction to justify spending, or are more competitive overall in getting advantages. Whatever it is, these two groups have no reason to hate each other for their spending habits and this game quite frankly does not limit itself to only f2p or p2p players, so whatever arguments people are making here are pretty much superfluous and pointless in retrospect.
Out of all the people I run with, all the people I meet in this game, I hardly see anyone complaining that p2p players are destroying this game. If anything I see p2p players complaining about not getting enough value out of their purchases like style crates, but now that everything has a set price and people can choose to pay it or not, there's no reason left to complain about it. For trophies locked behind paying or doing events, very few people choose to be at the top for this. You can see this with the low 400 or 500 trophy requirement in the elite guilds which can be reached from doing most of the exploration achievements which any f2p can do with 12-16 hrs/day amassing 50-120 trophies a day if they wanted to. Someone needs to inform me what aspect of this game is so paying that other players are complaining on a daily basis in game. Even the world chats and channel chats are rarely needed to be used often, there's discord and various other channels of communication. You can befriend and whisper people. Nothing in this game is so restricted and so time-intensive to dissuade a f2p player from playing.
XxPoseidonxX wrote: »
The OP is entirely correct, but this thread is completely bucking the tide. The real issue is that when you do spend money on this game, or rather if you have spent money on this game up to about a week after launch, you feel screwed over. And the reality is, Nexon has screwed you over.
You bought founders because you thought it was going to be like KMS2 or CMS2? Nope GMS2 is going to function entirely different. However, they were understanding and refunded anyone who was upset over their decisions.
They explained how the style crates were going to go... And yet they were completely, disproportionately expensive compared to that thread. Therefore, Nexon added a compensation and readjusted the rates.
The free2win vs pay2win arguments are almost entirely different territory,. Nonetheless, the fact stands that if you invested your money into this game, in some way... whether it was leading you into entirely different expectations or botching the launch of the name reservation event or any other unmentioned thing... you were screwed over.
Nexon really hasn't addressed this. Nor have they addressed concerns of the same players about their want to spend more on the game. The cash shop is empty if you've got $500 to burn on clothes and have bought everything. Not everyone is going to want to UGC. (I don't understand how the Meso to Meret conversion works because I quit so fast; so, I'm not going to speak on whether it is still cheaper to do that illegally outside of game.)
For now, the fact will stand that this game is not friendly to those who want to spend large sums on it. What we're going to have to do is accept that, avoid the obvious broken systems like the original style crates (if it's even possible to avoid being screwed over), and, ultimately, play the game like every other free2play player.
If you want more bang for your buck, until Nexon changes its stance towards this, you're going to have to find another game.
mirta000 wrote: »
wait. You quit because you bought everything that there was to buy that appealed to you? Erm... Do you also buy all the DLC for singleplayer games and then immediately stop playing due to not having anything else to purchase?
Besides, we're getting more direct buy stuff next November when the next lootbox releases. That being said, how did you even fit the current lot into an inventory? Did you buy inventory expansions as well?