Check out the patch notes for the v18 Kritias Expansion here: http://forums.maplestory2.nexon.net/discussion/45974

Elixirs can now be bought with Merets. P2W topic.

Comments

  • PopagandicePopagandice
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    these have been in the meret shop since day 1 and you farm them in game, also the best potions in the game heal you for quite a lot
  • KhalykKhalyk
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    Nikynoonoo wrote: »
    Lima3241 wrote: »
    Nikynoonoo wrote: »
    It doesn't matter if they're necessary it matters if they give an advantage or not which they obviously do if it gives an advantage in any shape or form it's P2W.

    How is it “pay to win” if no one is paying for something you can get for free? Like think about it for a second, in a game about cosmetics, who is going to spend real money on potions?

    PvP? Hahaha

    Dungeons/raids? Hahaha no, it’s what priests are for and even if you don’t have a priest, it’s what learning mechanics is for so you don’t need to heal.

    Really now, does anyone here know anyone who’s bought the elixirs from the premium shop?

    Lastly, this isn’t even anywhere near being remotely “pay to win”

    Pay to win is anything that gives an advantage if you pay over somebody who doesn't elixirs fall into that definition 100%. Sure you can get it for free, but it's going to take you a lot longer than the person who did pay for it that's an advantage. Let's take star wars battlefront 2 for example you could get anything for free, but it took longer than anybody else who paid and they came with advantages. Sure it's not essential to have these things, but those who do buy them have an advantage over those who don't.

    If "nobody" is paying for those elixirs like you claim they aren't then why is it on the store? Because they're selling that's why. Downplaying them doesn't make them not P2W. Simple question yes or no are you able to progress through the game faster and have advantages in it with these elixirs? The only thing you have given is "they're not a big deal" which doesn't change what they are they're still P2W.

    This is kinda my pet peeve because generally the people who are wrong about p2w are wrong because they use the wrong definition... Pay to win is anything that gives an advantage to a paying player THAT CANNOT BE ACHIEVED by a non paying player.Pay to convenience or pay to skip is generally a feature that helps speed the user through content or some quality of life that can still be achieved through a larger time investment by non paying players. P2W is game breaking mechanics/content that basically turn free players into content for paying players. P2C content does not break the game and is achievable by free players with more effort. Using your line of reasoning under your understanding of P2W then the founders headstart would HAVE to be P2W in which you already knew the game was completely P2W so why are you posting about it now? Or whats more likely is for some reason youve blown through all your elixers and found out the only way to get more was merets... Which even that... Im not sure how you did that... Im 3.1k GS on my runeblade and havent touched a single elixer 25% or 50%... Stop standing in fire...
  • NikynoonooNikynoonoo
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 1,655
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    Khalyk wrote: »
    Nikynoonoo wrote: »
    Lima3241 wrote: »
    Nikynoonoo wrote: »
    It doesn't matter if they're necessary it matters if they give an advantage or not which they obviously do if it gives an advantage in any shape or form it's P2W.

    How is it “pay to win” if no one is paying for something you can get for free? Like think about it for a second, in a game about cosmetics, who is going to spend real money on potions?

    PvP? Hahaha

    Dungeons/raids? Hahaha no, it’s what priests are for and even if you don’t have a priest, it’s what learning mechanics is for so you don’t need to heal.

    Really now, does anyone here know anyone who’s bought the elixirs from the premium shop?

    Lastly, this isn’t even anywhere near being remotely “pay to win”

    Pay to win is anything that gives an advantage if you pay over somebody who doesn't elixirs fall into that definition 100%. Sure you can get it for free, but it's going to take you a lot longer than the person who did pay for it that's an advantage. Let's take star wars battlefront 2 for example you could get anything for free, but it took longer than anybody else who paid and they came with advantages. Sure it's not essential to have these things, but those who do buy them have an advantage over those who don't.

    If "nobody" is paying for those elixirs like you claim they aren't then why is it on the store? Because they're selling that's why. Downplaying them doesn't make them not P2W. Simple question yes or no are you able to progress through the game faster and have advantages in it with these elixirs? The only thing you have given is "they're not a big deal" which doesn't change what they are they're still P2W.

    This is kinda my pet peeve because generally the people who are wrong about p2w are wrong because they use the wrong definition... Pay to win is anything that gives an advantage to a paying player THAT CANNOT BE ACHIEVED by a non paying player.Pay to convenience or pay to skip is generally a feature that helps speed the user through content or some quality of life that can still be achieved through a larger time investment by non paying players. P2W is game breaking mechanics/content that basically turn free players into content for paying players. P2C content does not break the game and is achievable by free players with more effort. Using your line of reasoning under your understanding of P2W then the founders headstart would HAVE to be P2W in which you already knew the game was completely P2W so why are you posting about it now? Or whats more likely is for some reason youve blown through all your elixers and found out the only way to get more was merets... Which even that... Im not sure how you did that... Im 3.1k GS on my runeblade and havent touched a single elixer 25% or 50%... Stop standing in fire...

    The definition I gave of P2W is the right definition just because the F2P player can achieve it doesn't make it not P2W I don't know where you are getting that idea. Star wars battlefront 2 was heavy P2W and F2P could get everything a P2W player could it was P2W because they paid to have an advantage of skipping the grind that's an aspect of P2W. I have been complaining about P2W on games for years and I didn't just start complaining about it on here this isn't the first time I've talked about it on here.

    I get I'm on a Nexon game talking about P2W and the fact that this games P2W is pretty light by Nexon standards, but I'm not going to justify any form of P2W no matter how light it is because you give them an inch they will take a mile it happens every time. If you want the game to not go the same way maplestory 1 did you should be talking more about it and what is considered acceptable and not acceptable because if it's always brushed off as being "not a big deal" they're going to push it farther because you keep saying it's fine.

    Let me ask you an honest question how far would you say is going to far on maplestory2 when it comes to P2W?
    Ull
  • KhalykKhalyk
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 2,400
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    Nikynoonoo wrote: »
    Khalyk wrote: »
    Nikynoonoo wrote: »
    Lima3241 wrote: »
    Nikynoonoo wrote: »
    It doesn't matter if they're necessary it matters if they give an advantage or not which they obviously do if it gives an advantage in any shape or form it's P2W.

    How is it “pay to win” if no one is paying for something you can get for free? Like think about it for a second, in a game about cosmetics, who is going to spend real money on potions?

    PvP? Hahaha

    Dungeons/raids? Hahaha no, it’s what priests are for and even if you don’t have a priest, it’s what learning mechanics is for so you don’t need to heal.

    Really now, does anyone here know anyone who’s bought the elixirs from the premium shop?

    Lastly, this isn’t even anywhere near being remotely “pay to win”

    Pay to win is anything that gives an advantage if you pay over somebody who doesn't elixirs fall into that definition 100%. Sure you can get it for free, but it's going to take you a lot longer than the person who did pay for it that's an advantage. Let's take star wars battlefront 2 for example you could get anything for free, but it took longer than anybody else who paid and they came with advantages. Sure it's not essential to have these things, but those who do buy them have an advantage over those who don't.

    If "nobody" is paying for those elixirs like you claim they aren't then why is it on the store? Because they're selling that's why. Downplaying them doesn't make them not P2W. Simple question yes or no are you able to progress through the game faster and have advantages in it with these elixirs? The only thing you have given is "they're not a big deal" which doesn't change what they are they're still P2W.

    This is kinda my pet peeve because generally the people who are wrong about p2w are wrong because they use the wrong definition... Pay to win is anything that gives an advantage to a paying player THAT CANNOT BE ACHIEVED by a non paying player.Pay to convenience or pay to skip is generally a feature that helps speed the user through content or some quality of life that can still be achieved through a larger time investment by non paying players. P2W is game breaking mechanics/content that basically turn free players into content for paying players. P2C content does not break the game and is achievable by free players with more effort. Using your line of reasoning under your understanding of P2W then the founders headstart would HAVE to be P2W in which you already knew the game was completely P2W so why are you posting about it now? Or whats more likely is for some reason youve blown through all your elixers and found out the only way to get more was merets... Which even that... Im not sure how you did that... Im 3.1k GS on my runeblade and havent touched a single elixer 25% or 50%... Stop standing in fire...

    The definition I gave of P2W is the right definition just because the F2P player can achieve it doesn't make it not P2W I don't know where you are getting that idea. Star wars battlefront 2 was heavy P2W and F2P could get everything a P2W player could it was P2W because they paid to have an advantage of skipping the grind that's an aspect of P2W. I have been complaining about P2W on games for years and I didn't just start complaining about it on here this isn't the first time I've talked about it on here.

    I get I'm on a Nexon game talking about P2W and the fact that this games P2W is pretty light by Nexon standards, but I'm not going to justify any form of P2W no matter how light it is because you give them an inch they will take a mile it happens every time. If you want the game to not go the same way maplestory 1 did you should be talking more about it and what is considered acceptable and not acceptable because if it's always brushed off as being "not a big deal" they're going to push it farther because you keep saying it's fine.

    Let me ask you an honest question how far would you say is going to far on maplestory2 when it comes to P2W?

    You are ABSOLUTELY using the wrong definition of p2w, period. In every definition you can find for "pay to win" there will be one of 3 phrases used. "Unachievable by free players", "Significant advantage to paid players" or "makes the game largely unbalanced for paid players". So you use Star wars battle front 2 as your example, SWBF2 is an interesting example as its not a freemium model game but lets examine it. While theoretically possible for free players to earn everything a player buying crates could, between the immense grind for each box, AND the time gating of certain portions of the game in reality a free player would NEVER be able to catch a player just buying boxes for the best equipment. Now take the element you are calling p2w in MS2. An elixer which, agreed, is better than all potions, but completely un-needed to complete any portion of the game. Those are the two examples you are putting on the exact same level as P2W?

    And to answer your question of "going to far" in MS2, any paid content unachievable to free players be it through the amount of time needed to invest or through actual content of gear/quests/location is too far.
  • DragonicWolfDragonicWolf
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    You can get them without paying merits. Non issue imo.
  • JhuraJhura
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 950
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    You can get them without paying merets. TBH I have never used them so I cannot see many people paying for them. P2W usually states something that people paying can get that free players cannot get. Since people can farm these for free it really isn't an issue, plus with all the other healing options in the game you would be hard pressed to shell out the whole 7 merets per elixer.

    TLDR: No issue really.
    Khalyk
  • SecrotsSecrots
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    Let me ask you an honest question how far would you say is going to far on maplestory2 when it comes to P2W?

    Not the person you asked, but it should be clear what too far is. As long as someone doesn't feel obligated to cash in order to keep up with the game, then it hasn't gone too far. If for example enchantments were heavily tied to cashing, then that would be dangerously P2W.
    Khalyk
  • UllUll
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    All of the people saying "you can get them without merets" know full well you can't get enough elixirs in game if you intend on trying for the top ranks in dark descent.

    This is P2W, and should be removed.
    Nikynoonoo
  • KupoNutKupoNut
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    edited 1:16AM October 21, 2018
    Nikynoonoo wrote: »

    Really now, does anyone here know anyone who’s bought the elixirs from the premium shop?


    I mean, they are one of the hottest selling items in the meret market. So alot of someones are obviously buying them.
  • NikynoonooNikynoonoo
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    KupoNut wrote: »
    Nikynoonoo wrote: »

    Really now, does anyone here know anyone who’s bought the elixirs from the premium shop?


    I mean, they are one of the hottest selling items in the meret market. So alot of someones are obviously buying them.

    You quoted the wrong person I'm not the one who said that. On that note how did you manage to break up the quote like that?
  • VixroVixro
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    My god can you people stop crying over everything that is sold in the store? Jesus christ..... You people really seem to have forgotten the meaning behind "Pay to win". When something is pay to win it means you CANNOT progress or obtain something WITHOUT PAYING. Things like this are convenience items that you DONT NEED to progress and they will only be useful to you.

    Stop crying over everything being "p2w" when you dont understand the meaning behind it
  • MarchinBunnyMarchinBunny
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    Pay to win is when you have the ability to pay for an advantage over free to play players. If free to play players can also get the same thing through other means, then there is no advantage, and as such, you can't call it pay to win.

    To give an example, if you have two players. One player is able to roll two dice cause he buys one through a cash shop, while the other is only able to roll one cause they play free. You would call that an advantage because one player is getting something the other player cannot get. The advantage isn't that they can pay for the extra dice, the advantage is the extra dice itself. So if the free player is able to get an extra dice as well through the game, you can no longer consider the extra dice an advantage because everyone has the ability to get it.

    However, there could be a time advantage. Let's say the person who buys the dice from the cash shop is able to get it earlier than a person is playing freely. The advantage is not the dice, but the ability to get it earlier. But if you can't get it earlier then there is quite literally no advantage even if you can buy it from the cash shop. You really can't call that pay to win.

    Now when it comes to these elixirs, there is technically still an advantage that exists. Convenience. Outright buying them means you can get them whenever you need them, while a free player would likely have to do some sort of work (aka playing the game) to get more.This advantage doesn't allow you to win though, so you also can't call it pay to win. It's a pay for convenience sort of item since the only advantage it gives you is convenience.
  • NikynoonooNikynoonoo
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    edited 12:42PM October 21, 2018
    Pay to win is when you have the ability to pay for an advantage over free to play players. If free to play players can also get the same thing through other means, then there is no advantage, and as such, you can't call it pay to win.

    To give an example, if you have two players. One player is able to roll two dice cause he buys one through a cash shop, while the other is only able to roll one cause they play free. You would call that an advantage because one player is getting something the other player cannot get. The advantage isn't that they can pay for the extra dice, the advantage is the extra dice itself. So if the free player is able to get an extra dice as well through the game, you can no longer consider the extra dice an advantage because everyone has the ability to get it.

    However, there could be a time advantage. Let's say the person who buys the dice from the cash shop is able to get it earlier than a person is playing freely. The advantage is not the dice, but the ability to get it earlier. But if you can't get it earlier then there is quite literally no advantage even if you can buy it from the cash shop. You really can't call that pay to win.

    Now when it comes to these elixirs, there is technically still an advantage that exists. Convenience. Outright buying them means you can get them whenever you need them, while a free player would likely have to do some sort of work (aka playing the game) to get more.This advantage doesn't allow you to win though, so you also can't call it pay to win. It's a pay for convenience sort of item since the only advantage it gives you is convenience.

    That last part is what concerns me because in an mmo being able to skip the grind in any shape or form by paying is P2W. Let me use Classic WoW that's coming out for an example you need supplies to raid imagine if you could buy said supplies people would be outraged because they're skipping a huge part of an mmo which is gathering these supplies. The person who buys the supplies gets to jump in the raids faster, learns the content faster, gets gear faster, is established in a good guild faster while the person who didn't buy them has to spend time gathering the supplies which means he's left behind and at a disadvantage to the person who bought the supplies in any form of content being PvE or PvP.

    The fact that this poll shows close to 50/50 in people saying they are a problem or not a problem scares me. If this was truly not P2W this number wouldn't even be close to that out of the 56 people who voted yes or no you should have maybe 3-5 tops say it is P2W to account for the people who say everything is P2W, but it's not at 3-5 in fact there is more saying it is P2W then not. This problem also has the potential to get worse because the elixirs are % based which means they only get better as time goes on with gear improvements and more health if it's seen as this much of a problem now how about when the numbers increase and the free elixirs that you currently get from the maple wheel go away?

    We're treading on dangerous ground here because these things will affect this games reputation because people who see this will bring this up if somebody who has an interest in this game asks them if there's P2W. A lot of people who play mmos will see this as P2W I can guarantee you that especially now with this surge in popularity in old school mmos where not having these sorts of practices is a big part of the appeal. I'm not saying these things just to rip on the game it is a legitimate concern that should be addressed because the last thing you want associated with your game is whether or not it has P2W elements or not and word of mouth about this will spread and could lose potential customers that might have played this game for years.
  • SecrotsSecrots
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    So far what you've described in that post is:

    - Not having to gather them means you can progress into content and complete it faster than those who do have to gather them.

    Simple refute: The only content in this game that people are mentioning this is problematic is Descent. Even without the equips you gain from Descent, you still have access to progressing your gear farther. You're not limited here, which means this is a non-issue.

    - A lot of people are calling this P2W so it's P2W

    Not a logical reason. It's easy to hype people into believing a certain thing if you use certain buzzwords. There's plenty of examples in modern times of people blindly believing anything before properly researching.

    - %heals

    As it happens in pretty much any RPG, we'll eventually get better consumables. Maybe they'll be more inclined to create %heal consumables with suggestions? Not like people have been barking at them about it since current consumables are perfectly fine.
  • MarchinBunnyMarchinBunny
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    edited 1:29PM October 21, 2018
    Nikynoonoo wrote: »
    That last part is what concerns me because in an mmo being able to skip the grind in any shape or form by paying is P2W. Let me use Classic WoW that's coming out for an example you need supplies to raid imagine if you could buy said supplies people would be outraged because they're skipping a huge part of an mmo which is gathering these supplies.

    I think you are over exaggerating here. Typically supplies like potions are at such a minimum cost, you can usually buy them straight from an NPC store or from other players if there is that type of crafting in the game. Think of it like going to a convenience store instead of going to a supermarket. That's pretty much the only difference here. I don't think I have played any game where gathering potions and supplies is a big part of the game that not having to do it would give someone some huge advantage. In fact, most games throw these supplies at you so often you may not even have to go to a store, you probably just have them laying around.

    The person who buys the supplies gets to jump in the raids faster, learns the content faster, gets gear faster, is established in a good guild faster while the person who didn't buy them has to spend time gathering the supplies which means he's left behind and at a disadvantage to the person who bought the supplies in any form of content being PvE or PvP.
    We are talking like a difference of minutes maybe. So you must be joking lol.
    The fact that this poll shows close to 50/50 in people saying they are a problem or not a problem scares me. If this was truly not P2W this number wouldn't even be close to that out of the 56 people who voted yes or no you should have maybe 3-5 tops say it is P2W to account for the people who say everything is P2W, but it's not at 3-5 in fact there is more saying it is P2W then not.
    Ok, first of all, you can't call it 50/50 ... you have 3 options. Only about 1/3 say they should be taken out, but the option also doesn't specify whether or not they consider it a big problem or not if it remains, just that they would prefer it not to be a thing. And just because 1/3 have this opinion doesn't mean it must be pay to win. All that means is THEY think it's pay to win.

    Now if you wanted to leave out those who simply don't have an opinion, even then if you say it's 50/50 .. that is still 50% of people not in favor of taking it out. You can't really act like 50% is a big deal on one side, but not the other. If you are saying 50% is proof that it's pay to win, then that would be contradictory because that would mean 50% on the other side means it's not by that same logic.

    Also, to put it simply, I don't think most people would be bothered if it was removed simply because that is how much that it isn't a big deal. Anyone who is disagreeing with you isn't doing so because they plan to buy these, but because complaining about them just comes off as ridiculous.
    This problem also has the potential to get worse because the elixirs are % based which means they only get better as time goes on with gear improvements and more health if it's seen as this much of a problem now how about when the numbers increase and the free elixirs that you currently get from the maple wheel go away?
    I doubt there will ever be a time that you can't get these elixirs for free, or be able to get something that is just about on par. Even if you couldn't get something on par, if you can something close enough ... it really wouldn't make much of a difference then either. In cases like that, usually it just means consuming more or less.
    We're treading on dangerous ground here because these things will affect this games reputation because people who see this will bring this up if somebody who has an interest in this game asks them if there's P2W.
    -.- Dangerous ground ... you say. Who do you think is going to quit the game over this? I am just curious as to your actual thoughts on how serious of a problem you think this is. How many will quit, and how come they have not quit yet? I would think if it ws dangerous grounds, we would already be seeing that.
    A lot of people who play mmos will see this as P2W I can guarantee you that especially now with this surge in popularity in old school mmos where not having these sorts of practices is a big part of the appeal.
    I don't think you know what a lot is. Take your poll for example. Most people either don't care or rather keep them. The poll literally proves you wrong.
    I'm not saying these things just to rip on the game it is a legitimate concern that should be addressed because the last thing you want associated with your game is whether or not it has P2W elements or not and word of mouth about this will spread and could lose potential customers that might have played this game for years.
    As I said, you are over exaggerating. No one who enjoys the game is going to quit because some people can buy Elixirs. The only way people would quit for something like that is if you couldn't get them in the game, or a close equivalent potion or item. It would only become a problem if it became an actual advantage that it made some sort of seeable difference. Which isn't the case, and I seriously doubt will ever be the case.
  • NikynoonooNikynoonoo
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    Secrots wrote: »
    So far what you've described in that post is:

    - Not having to gather them means you can progress into content and complete it faster than those who do have to gather them.

    Simple refute: The only content in this game that people are mentioning this is problematic is Descent. Even without the equips you gain from Descent, you still have access to progressing your gear farther. You're not limited here, which means this is a non-issue.

    - A lot of people are calling this P2W so it's P2W

    Not a logical reason. It's easy to hype people into believing a certain thing if you use certain buzzwords. There's plenty of examples in modern times of people blindly believing anything before properly researching.

    - %heals

    As it happens in pretty much any RPG, we'll eventually get better consumables. Maybe they'll be more inclined to create %heal consumables with suggestions? Not like people have been barking at them about it since current consumables are perfectly fine.

    They've mentioned one area as an example you really think this doesn't apply to other areas? The best healing item only good for one place yeah I highly doubt that this elixir can easily replace skill why learn the mechanics when you can just use this potion when you screw up?

    A lot of people are calling this P2W because it is let's go to the classic WoW forums and tell them buying their best healing item in the game isn't P2W. If it's truly not P2W then people should agree with you saying it there shouldn't they? I can just as easily argue the other way that people don't want to say it's P2W because they don't want their game to have the negative connotation that P2W carries so they just deny it. If people truly felt this wasn't P2W that poll shouldn't be anywhere near 50/50.

    The last point makes no sense because no consumable is going to beat this one because this one you can pay for why would they replace their selling potion with one that replaces it? What suggestion can you give to get around that?
  • SecrotsSecrots
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    I'll be real with you, if elixirs are the only way you're completing normal content in this game, you're in for a rough ride. Normal potions are plenty.

    When MS2 gets to the point where you need actual healing to be able to progress through raids/dungeons, that comparison will actually be ok. Until then, find another game to make your point, because so far it's not working.

    Again, what people feel and what is fact are two very different things. If you choose to not believe it, that's on you. I could just as easily say that if this were as p2w as you feel, more people would be making a huge fuss about it. After all, this forum has done it for every single other p2w component in this game, so why would they stop here?

    Doesn't have to beat it. All we need are consumables that can keep up with the game and give reasonable health back.
  • NikynoonooNikynoonoo
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    I think you are over exaggerating here. Typically supplies like potions are at such a minimum cost, you can usually buy them straight from an NPC store or from other players if there is that type of crafting in the game. Think of it like going to a convenience store instead of going to a supermarket. That's pretty much the only difference here. I don't think I have played any game where gathering potions and supplies is a big part of the game that not having to do it would give someone some huge advantage. In fact, most games throw these supplies at you so often you may not even have to go to a store, you probably just have them laying around.

    The best ones? Those normally come at a huge price or requirements to even make them and usually there isn't just one there is multiple for different things games have gotten more casual these days, but classic versions are big right now and that's where you will see this kind of thing. You must have started playing mmos 2010 further because this is something that might be expected
    We are talking like a difference of minutes maybe. So you must be joking lol.

    I'm not sure of all the ways to get elixirs the only one I know of through normal play (excluding events since those will end) is from world bosses and those are a maybe you'll get some those aren't going to take a few minutes especially if you're trying to get a decent amount.
    Ok, first of all, you can't call it 50/50 ... you have 3 options. Only about 1/3 say they should be taken out, but the option also doesn't specify whether or not they consider it a big problem or not if it remains, just that they would prefer it not to be a thing. And just because 1/3 have this opinion doesn't mean it must be pay to win. All that means is THEY think it's pay to win.

    Now if you wanted to leave out those who simply don't have an opinion, even then if you say it's 50/50 .. that is still 50% of people not in favor of taking it out. You can't really act like 50% is a big deal on one side, but not the other. If you are saying 50% is proof that it's pay to win, then that would be contradictory because that would mean 50% on the other side means it's not by that same logic.

    Also, to put it simply, I don't think most people would be bothered if it was removed simply because that is how much that it isn't a big deal. Anyone who is disagreeing with you isn't doing so because they plan to buy these, but because complaining about them just comes off as ridiculous.

    The third option is indifferent not yes or no so trying to count them as them saying it's fine is being dishonest. The option flat out says no they don't belong in the market take them out if they didn't care they would have voted the third option, but they didn't trying to say people saying no don't think it's a problem is laughable are you trying to say they don't know what they're voting for? I don't act like the 50% on one side is a big deal compared to the other rather I said that when there is this much of a divide this issue should at the very least be addressed.
    I doubt there will ever be a time that you can't get these elixirs for free, or be able to get something that is just about on par. Even if you couldn't get something on par, if you can something close enough ... it really wouldn't make much of a difference then either. In cases like that, usually it just means consuming more or less.

    The only method I know of is the one I mentioned above and it's not great it's actually one of the few things I would have said in this game is slow paced. If there is another method I'd love to know, but in the meantime this is the only method that I could even find with what info is available and this will take quite a while. I don't know if you go to world bosses or not, but these things take a while to go down because it usually takes some time for people to even be aware it's there I have been the only one at a world boss for over 5 minutes before a second person showed up. On average I'd say it takes a solid 15 minutes for a world boss to be killed (most of the time is spent waiting on people) and the only time I've ever gotten elixirs I got two of them.
    -.- Dangerous ground ... you say. Who do you think is going to quit the game over this? I am just curious as to your actual thoughts on how serious of a problem you think this is. How many will quit, and how come they have not quit yet? I would think if it ws dangerous grounds, we would already be seeing that.

    When they find out the game has P2W elements in it you will lose a lot of perspective customers off of that alone. This is the second week of the game being out people don't start caring about the players of an mmo until at least 1-2 months in once the hype of the game being new is gone. This companies reputation sucks already to outsiders because of P2W if they really want to change that around and win customers back like it's clear they want to do they're going to have to prove it.
    I don't think you know what a lot is. Take your poll for example. Most people either don't care or rather keep them. The poll literally proves you wrong.

    I don't have an opinion on it is a lot different from saying keep them you can't lump the two in together to attempt to prove a point. There is more people there saying to remove than there is to keep them that can be said with 100% certainty. I'm also not just talking about people on here with that sentence I'm also talking about people on the outside who may have an interest.
    As I said, you are over exaggerating. No one who enjoys the game is going to quit because some people can buy Elixirs. The only way people would quit for something like that is if you couldn't get them in the game, or a close equivalent potion or item. It would only become a problem if it became an actual advantage that it made some sort of seeable difference. Which isn't the case, and I seriously doubt will ever be the case.

    Except it does make a seeable difference because it's been brought up. I'm not just talking about people quitting because they're there I'm also talking about the the people who ask about the game and hear about this that won't try maplestory2 because of the P2W element to it. This also is even worse because of the reputation Nexon has if they are trying to fix that this isn't a good way of going about it.


    I can see we clearly have a huge difference of what P2W is because I played in an era where if you wanted something you had to actually play the game and get it you could not buy anything to help you out there was no conveniences you either got the item by playing or you didn't get it at all. Paying for items in the game is a modern concept and I certainly don't approve of it if the game is F2P fine they can have the cosmetics, but if they make it so you can get advantages or items by paying for them that is not ok by me.

    I wouldn't say this is the biggest issue this game is having (the fact that you can get to max level in a day is imo), but downplaying it and acting like it isn't an issue isn't what I would call a solution.
  • NikynoonooNikynoonoo
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 1,655
    Posts: 116
    Member
    Secrots wrote: »
    I'll be real with you, if elixirs are the only way you're completing normal content in this game, you're in for a rough ride. Normal potions are plenty.

    When MS2 gets to the point where you need actual healing to be able to progress through raids/dungeons, that comparison will actually be ok. Until then, find another game to make your point, because so far it's not working.

    Again, what people feel and what is fact are two very different things. If you choose to not believe it, that's on you. I could just as easily say that if this were as p2w as you feel, more people would be making a huge fuss about it. After all, this forum has done it for every single other p2w component in this game, so why would they stop here?

    Doesn't have to beat it. All we need are consumables that can keep up with the game and give reasonable health back.

    Oh god no I'll quit gaming right now if I struggled on this game. I don't understand the logic of how being able to buy healing items can be P2W on one game and then not on another that makes no sense to me the principal and the effect is still the same. The fact is this is a paid advantage his elixir heals more than my potion I can't "feel" like I'm at a disadvantage his item straight up heals more than mine and he didn't even work for it he bought it. We haven't even factored in PvP two equal parties one has elixirs the other doesn't who's going to win? You will be required to have elixirs to be able to compete at all because when you run out you're at a disadvantage so you pretty much just aren't going to PvP until you get more. I get PvP isn't maplestorys strong suit, but if you're going to do it at least do it right.
    Doesn't have to beat it. All we need are consumables that can keep up with the game and give reasonable health back.

    Tell me how that works out in PvP.
  • Kaka88Kaka88
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 540
    Posts: 8
    Member
    I think this guys is paid to bring ms2 down LOL