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Premium Club, Dungeon Limits, Pay2Win VS Free2Win

Comments

  • link37890link37890
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 1,315
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    oh jeez. It seems as though things haven't really been much of a discussion here since I last checked, and more so people just saying no to everything.
    All OP wants is for the premium membership to be more worthwhile, dungeons to be less restrictive (and if the cap isn't changed for free to play players then at least for paying players.), and the cosmetics you buy needing to either do *something* that's worth the hefty price or have a lowered price.

    I don't really see what's so wrong about these complaints. Sure there are some points you may not agree with, but suggest alternatives instead of just shouting no, no, no to anything that has "pay-2-win" anywhere on it.
    I agree with wanting to lower the price of cosmetics if they aren't doing anything. Sure you can argue the "it makes it rarer" factor, but honestly I see little value in blowing a bunch of money on in game cosmetics that won't really mean much in a few years. I'm not in the boat wanting the stats on these items coming back, but I do vouch that the prices drop or they do something special.
    Dungeon Cap is being addressed from what I'm hearing. Hopefully they increase the cap or just remove it in general. People likely wouldn't complain if this happened. The issue is the lumping it into premium membership. Which to be fair would be an incentive to buy it. And I agree it gives an advantage.
    I'm just going to wait, and see what the devs announce in the next few days on that matter though.
    Finally there's the issue of premium being a bit lackluster. Yes the bonuses can seem nice, but most of what I see in it could be improved. OP just suggested a few things, and I put my thoughts on them in a longwinded post earlier. I'd suggest trying to do something similar or at least offer alternatives.

    Azuchi
  • AzuchiAzuchi
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    edited 9:58AM October 18, 2018
    Nikynoonoo wrote: »
    @Azuchi

    I'm more than aware of what P2W means you asked for exp gains to be increased for premium by 3x which is P2W in a horrible way. Most of your suggestions were to buff the already P2W aspects of premium.

    The premium is about $5 a month so to me I would like to see it remove the P2W aspects of premium such as gaining extra mesos and exp and replace it with a style crate box. To me that's not bad it gives lots of other stuff for a low enough price so it encourages more people to actually buy the premium because if I enjoy a F2P game enough I'll spend some money on it if I feel it's fair if more customers feel they are getting a better deal more will buy into it which is a far better practice in the long term then just giving whales immediate satisfaction.

    We pay for things for immediate satisfaction, we only save money for things in the long run.
    It's like buying a burger, you buy it you eat it. immediate satisfaction. I'm paying for a service. I want the service to be satisfactory and it feels lackluster.
    Like i said removing the exp buff or changing it entirely is another option. Cuz i barely feel it, I have gotten to lvl cap in both beta's and its fairly easy even with the nerfed down exp in beta 2. So i don't see why even include it if its only a 20% increase. increase it or change it.

    Costumes having stats, as i said before. If it's really a issue just make the costume haves more fancy visual effects heck include a Voice change for all costume actions, I'd pay money for that. But don't make the epic costumes dang expensive and they barely do anything.
    You're all so focused on whales that i dun think you're even paying attention about the concept of whaling.
    It'd only be considered whaling if it's something they can spam. Premium service is a one time purchase a Month there is no way to whale it.
    If they increase it's benefits it benefits all of us, heck i'd be able to do worth while events giving away merest so people can get premium service in my guild.
    But i wouldn't do that now cuz it's so plain and bland. A 20% increase in mesos and exp is close to nothing, especially since it doesn't effect dungeon meso drop.
    Shawnyy
  • thdthd
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    edited 10:21AM October 18, 2018
    .
    link37890
  • lillucariolillucario
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    Nikynoonoo wrote: »
    @Azuchi

    I'm more than aware of what P2W means you asked for exp gains to be increased for premium by 3x which is P2W in a horrible way. Most of your suggestions were to buff the already P2W aspects of premium.

    The premium is about $5 a month so to me I would like to see it remove the P2W aspects of premium such as gaining extra mesos and exp and replace it with a style crate box. To me that's not bad it gives lots of other stuff for a low enough price so it encourages more people to actually buy the premium because if I enjoy a F2P game enough I'll spend some money on it if I feel it's fair if more customers feel they are getting a better deal more will buy into it which is a far better practice in the long term then just giving whales immediate satisfaction.

    The thing about the exp increase is that it only affects mob exp. Not end dungeon exp. I'm sure you've noticed by now that grinding mobs is hardly an effective way to level in this game. You could argue it for World bosses but they still give really good exp despite the boost so it's negligible really. Premium dungeons only give ~200k minimum extra mesos a day that people could make without an issue doing the "Get Rich" of Tab of daily missions on multiple characters that was mentioned earlier.
  • AzuchiAzuchi
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 1,275
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    lillucario wrote: »
    Nikynoonoo wrote: »
    @Azuchi

    I'm more than aware of what P2W means you asked for exp gains to be increased for premium by 3x which is P2W in a horrible way. Most of your suggestions were to buff the already P2W aspects of premium.

    The premium is about $5 a month so to me I would like to see it remove the P2W aspects of premium such as gaining extra mesos and exp and replace it with a style crate box. To me that's not bad it gives lots of other stuff for a low enough price so it encourages more people to actually buy the premium because if I enjoy a F2P game enough I'll spend some money on it if I feel it's fair if more customers feel they are getting a better deal more will buy into it which is a far better practice in the long term then just giving whales immediate satisfaction.

    The thing about the exp increase is that it only affects mob exp. Not end dungeon exp. I'm sure you've noticed by now that grinding mobs is hardly an effective way to level in this game. You could argue it for World bosses but they still give really good exp despite the boost so it's negligible really. Premium dungeons only give ~200k minimum extra mesos a day that people could make without an issue doing the "Get Rich" of Tab of daily missions on multiple characters that was mentioned earlier.

    Yeah that's why im saying why are these buffs even here, they are useless. Epic quest exp is enough to lvl you to cap why even have this buff?
  • MommaMakoMommaMako
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 1,280
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    Azuchi wrote: »
    MommaMako wrote: »
    okay, yea, screw making this game P2W and screw you, that is a terrible idea

    If you've read anything i've said above you would not be saying that, But yeah Screw paying players. Let the server run on Air and Sewage water Cuz they don't need money to let's say Pay their bills, Pay the team developing the game, Pay for the server to stay up. Sure screw it~ Gl enjoying a game that will be shut down in 5 months due to lack of funding. When you start seeing them not patching anything in at all that's when you can tell the game is dying.

    I'm all for a system to add some perks and such, but what you are suggesting is a way to make paying extra the only way to really enjoy the game, you are the problem!
    NikynoonooTalnova
  • AzuchiAzuchi
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 1,275
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    MommaMako wrote: »
    Azuchi wrote: »
    MommaMako wrote: »
    okay, yea, screw making this game P2W and screw you, that is a terrible idea

    If you've read anything i've said above you would not be saying that, But yeah Screw paying players. Let the server run on Air and Sewage water Cuz they don't need money to let's say Pay their bills, Pay the team developing the game, Pay for the server to stay up. Sure screw it~ Gl enjoying a game that will be shut down in 5 months due to lack of funding. When you start seeing them not patching anything in at all that's when you can tell the game is dying.

    I'm all for a system to add some perks and such, but what you are suggesting is a way to make paying extra the only way to really enjoy the game, you are the problem!

    And your saying that you can't get it? i believe the option is available to everyone....so your point of me being the problem stems from you being able to get it or you not "Wanting" to get it?
  • LanctenLancten
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 530
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    all you are screaming i want a p2w game Go play Black desert online.
    MommaMakoNikynoonooValwyn
  • MommaMakoMommaMako
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    Azuchi wrote: »
    MommaMako wrote: »
    Azuchi wrote: »
    MommaMako wrote: »
    okay, yea, screw making this game P2W and screw you, that is a terrible idea

    If you've read anything i've said above you would not be saying that, But yeah Screw paying players. Let the server run on Air and Sewage water Cuz they don't need money to let's say Pay their bills, Pay the team developing the game, Pay for the server to stay up. Sure screw it~ Gl enjoying a game that will be shut down in 5 months due to lack of funding. When you start seeing them not patching anything in at all that's when you can tell the game is dying.

    I'm all for a system to add some perks and such, but what you are suggesting is a way to make paying extra the only way to really enjoy the game, you are the problem!

    And your saying that you can't get it? i believe the option is available to everyone....so your point of me being the problem stems from you being able to get it or you not "Wanting" to get it?

    the Premium payment thing is a way to say, "Hey, this is a fun game, here, I'll throw some cash your way" thing not a "pay money to actually enjoy the game" thing
    P2W systems are a bad idea, and if you're going to be some elitist prick, why don't you go play some shitty "live service" instead... keep your garbage ideas away from something with some promise
    Nikynoonoo
  • NikynoonooNikynoonoo
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 1,655
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    @Azuchi

    Yeah you pay for immediate satisfaction that's called P2W because you want things faster that you otherwise wouldn't have had. You ask for stats on costumes which would make anybody who had these have a huge advantage over those who don't I'm sorry, but I will not support that because it makes getting the premium mandatory as opposed to something extra. You pay $5 a month you certainly seem entitled to a lot for very little I paid more than that just to have access to Old School Runescape membership. This game has loot boxes so this game is not hurting for cash especially when people are paying $50-$70 minimum for a halloween costume so the whole idea that this company isn't making money can get tossed right out the window because I've heard this spiel before and it's never true. This game shouldn't even have a premium if you have loot boxes and membership you're milking your customers more than you should be.

    Sorry but this game has loot boxes the premium is just extra and the rewards it gives are more than enough if you want to remove the P2W aspects and replace it with equal value of stuff on the store then I'm all for that.
  • FeifeiDuFeifeiDu
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 1,060
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    Azuchi wrote: »
    MommaMako wrote: »
    okay, yea, screw making this game P2W and screw you, that is a terrible idea

    If you've read anything i've said above you would not be saying that, But yeah Screw paying players. Let the server run on Air and Sewage water Cuz they don't need money to let's say Pay their bills, Pay the team developing the game, Pay for the server to stay up. Sure screw it~ Gl enjoying a game that will be shut down in 5 months due to lack of funding. When you start seeing them not patching anything in at all that's when you can tell the game is dying.

    Nexon said, they are gunna make money off cash shop cosmetic items only so that the game is not p2w. everyone likes that so screw you too. try chinese server and you will cry. I spend 5k in a year and still not strong enough and get kicked from teams
  • JSKJSK
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    edited 7:21PM October 18, 2018
    If DotA 2, Path of Exile and CS:GO can be financially viable without P2W, so can Maple Story 2.
  • CyberliskCyberlisk
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    edited 10:56AM October 19, 2018
    Getting things like EXP boosts , heck maybe even more dungeon runs are fine . But when you start giving out things like "Buying premium grants your character +10% total damage" it's too far. Not everyone has large disposable incomes , and despite what you think . Whales alone cannot support an MMORPG. Nexon needs to cater to the general audience not just the top 5% who have lots of disposable income. I don't agree with stats on costumes because what starts as "just +5 to all stats" eventually turns into "+5% all stats , +5% movespeed , and +3% Crit damage 5/5 set effect"
  • ShawnyyShawnyy
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    There is a difference in catering to a general audience that pays here and there compared to catering to people who wanna dot their fat ass on their chair and play 24/7 for free and never spend a single cent on the game yet complain about p2w. It’s called get your fat ass up and go get a damn job.

    People out here bustin asses to make their money and are deserving of a bang for their buck in terms of value when they decide to spend their hard earned money on games like this one. So for a lot of people that frankly won’t be paying ANYTHING if it’s p2w or simple just cosmetics it’s just dumb that they even open their mouths. And I’m not saying you people on this thread are any of those categories, I’m just saying that in general.

    XxPoseidonxX
  • CyberliskCyberlisk
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    edited 12:08PM October 19, 2018
    Shawnyy wrote: »
    There is a difference in catering to a general audience that pays here and there compared to catering to people who wanna dot their fat ass on their chair and play 24/7 for free and never spend a single cent on the game yet complain about p2w. It’s called get your fat ass up and go get a damn job.

    People out here bustin asses to make their money and are deserving of a bang for their buck in terms of value when they decide to spend their hard earned money on games like this one. So for a lot of people that frankly won’t be paying ANYTHING if it’s p2w or simple just cosmetics it’s just dumb that they even open their mouths. And I’m not saying you people on this thread are any of those categories, I’m just saying that in general.

    Some people are in school , some people have families to support. I myself am working a minimum wage job , so because I'm working this job I should be at a disadvantage in a P2W environment vs someone who makes $20/hr? Should someone who happens to win a lottery be granted whatever they so desire should they choose to spend the winnings on MS2?

    The witch outfit DOES change your animation.Should the rich and powerful be allowed to have an advantage over everyone else? Putting it up to a vote will of course show that only a small percent want "more p2w" because only a small percent actually have the money to afford such things.

    The dungeon cap needs to either be removed or extended in general , not just for paying players.
  • ShawnyyShawnyy
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    2 points. That is Called LIFE. The rich and powerful in real life do and say and get what they want as they please no if ands or buts. So I just want to throw that out there for those people that claim people with the money advantage shouldn’t be able to do more than then because that’s how life is unfortunately. That being said, do I agree with it? Absolutely not but what can I do? Nothing.

    Now to your point pertaining to who should get what? Do I think people with lower paying jobs should get less no? Do I think people who make $20+ per hour should get more? Absolutely not. I am saying however there should be things in the game that make those people willing to spend money feel rewarded (bang for your buck). If I am to drop $20-$100 on the game where I’d that going? To straight outfits? Yeah no buddy that ain’t gonna cut it. If I am to drop $100 I wanna be able to get some kinda buff potion or maybe more dungeon runs or some sort of thing that puts me slight ahead of where I would have been if I hadn’t spent any money.

    There is a difference between advantage and p2w that people don’t understand and need to get drilled into their head. If I can spend money to get better pots for example. That is an advantage not pay to win because I’m not getting anything necessarily WINNING or game breaking advantage from it. It simple gives just enough advantage that it’s desirable and does not Make it so the purchaser has some astronomical advantage over those that don’t pay. This is the system of paying that needs to exist. Currently the system is pay to look different that’s about it. No incentive to spend any money.

    And to those that don’t have the extra money, don’t complain. If someone else isn’t busting their ass working hard and have extra money they would like to spend don’t knock their advantage that they rightfully deserve for working harder to make more money and spend on the game. Because even when I was in school I worked my ass off bought my own car paid my own way and still had extra money to spend on games and drinks st the bar and all of those extra goodies so it’s not like if ur in school u can’t spare $5 or even $10. That’s not gonna kill your wallet.

    But again I’m not saying we need some astronomical pay to win system of paying to get +5 gems automatically in which it normally takes months and months to farm. That is what p2w is. People need to educate themselves on the topic of p2w before they open their mouths most of the time.
    XxPoseidonxX
  • TalnovaTalnova
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    edited 1:26PM October 19, 2018
    I think, in general I 100% disagree with what you are saying, when it comes to pay2win at least. But I think the issues you have could be discussed without the paying element.

    I will start with why I think pay to win is a terrible idea.

    1. PR. Public relations matters. People play or don't play a game based on perception, not how good the game is. Right now MS2 has a LOOOOT of positive PR because of their openness/communication with the community and most importantly their removal of pay 2 win elements. Adding any pay to win will destroy that. It actually could kill the game, and it definitely would at least kill the positive community perception that exists at the moment.

    2. Free to play players matter just as much, if not more than whales. Free to play players are the ones who make the community feel vibrant and alive, with only whales the population would be 1/10th of what it is. The game is fun because there are a lot of players, and adding elements that favour a very small portion of the player base is not good for the game.

    As an example, of my 6 friends that play the game, only one other paid for a founders, one I bought founders so he could play cbt2 with me, and the rest only started playing Oct 10 and refuse to spend a cent on the game. When I was trying to convince them to play their main question was "is it pay to win?". It was great being able to say "no! it's just pay for convenience" and really helped me convince them to give the game a go. My enjoyment of the game is dependant on my free to play friends, and I think I spend more than enough on the game to cover their game play.

    Also say your suggestions are taken seriously, and they increase the dungeon cap for premium players, well anyone with free to play friends would find themselves unable to play with their friends because of dungeon cap. This happened a lot in tree of saviour, their premium system made it hard for me to play with my free to play friends, the xp bonus meant my friends were always behind in level, the dungeon cap limit meant my friends couldn't run more than 2 dungeons with me. I am fine with pay for convenience and cosmetics because it allows me to play with my friends on an even playing field.


    Now for the other half of your argument, honestly it sounds like you have problems with the game that have nothing to do with paying money. You want the dungeon cap change to facilitate players who can't play every day and can only play on weekends. This is a fair point that I think has been brought up a lot. Maybe they could consider changing the cap to be 50 a week instead of 10 a day/30 a week. In the end we have to wait to see.

    You also are complaining about the grindy portions of the game and want to pay to skip it, but that's what makes this game fun. They aren't necessary to be competitive, and as a casual player you can still do all the content without min-max'ing. It sounds to me you want to pay to skip core gameplay, but that core gameplay is what keeps you playing the game. If we can just pay to win the game, we might pay a lot initially (lots of money for Nexon yay), then quit the game because we have "done everything" and received our dose of instant gratification (game dies, no more money for Nexon). It is better for Nexon if players keep playing for a long time, spending money here and there along the way. Yes maybe they could get a whale to spend $2-300 in the first month skipping content or be "OP", but then the whale would have no sense of accomplishment and ironically be the first to quit. Then the game would make less money the next month because the only people playing the game are free to play players who were doing things more slowly and had a greater sense of accomplishment for their achievements.

    I personally love spending money on games, I love supporting MS2 because it is a great game, and I am happy to spend a crazy amount on costumes. But I think if they start going pay to win it will destroy the game. I also like achieving things in the game, and find that the games that let me "pay to win" usually get a lot of money out of me initially, but I never end up playing for very long because I lose the sense of fun and accomplishment that comes from earning rewards.

    I am so happy with this game and the direction it is going, and I hope that Nexon is making enough money off cosmetics/convenience that it can keep the pay 2 win out of the game.
    Valwyn