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The truth has dawned onto me....

AzuchiAzuchi
MapleStory 2 Rep: 1,275
Posts: 32
Member
in General Chat
I've figured out the code...The issue behind this whole pay2win Vs Free2play debate
And the game nexon is playing taking advantage of the outrage while they sneak in how greedy and nasty they trully are while others fail to see it and take the "Keep it free2play" stance.
Let's analyze this together shall we.
Now bare with me before you decided to just hate reply and not read anything like several hundred people i mett on forums before Pay attention for a quick second and use your common sense to see between the lines.

Nexon: We're gonna make this game as free to play as possible, With no means of giving paying players advantages.
[Basicly the people giving us money can go suck it] A genius plot, no matter how much us paying players complain about how we're not satisfied with our purchase, they just get to sit back and watch the [Free2PlayMovement] Rage on us and tell insult/harrass us into a corner while they get to keep our money and change nothing to keep us around. [Technically business suicide but some of us are stubborn and will stick around cuz they know we love the game]

Look at our compensation plans for the Style crates palls~ for every 5 boxes purchased you get 1~ no not 2~ 1 Coin.
So allow me to do some math here, The costume package is worth 76 coins, One style care is worth 3$ so you need five for 1 coins thats 15$ Per coin.
Multiply 15 with 76 equals 1140$ So Nexon believes that this is what the costume set it worth even as a compensation.
Some say they spend 1000+$ on the style stuff so this is nexon basicly sneaking in a way for you to only get compensated with 1 Set and nothing else. I'm not seeing how that's compensation at all....if someone bought 50 Crates they'd only get 10 coins so literally 150$ is worth 10 coins? That's by far the most expensive crap i've ever seen.
And everyone applauds them cuz "The game is free2play" and just let's this slide while only the cash-side of the community noticed and our words are falling on deaf ears.

Next up we got the Free2Play movement community, Honestly being a guy who normally takes the side of the free2play i've noticed....Every single person who's been arguing about this Clearly never plans on buying ANYTHING from the premium market.
Let's be honest you're not gonna buy anything, you're definitly not gonna support the server by purchasing any fashion.
And because of that simple fact, you guys will band up and Tell every soul that if they Make this game pay2Win It will die....How so? You're never gonna buy cash so what difference would it make?
We'd get our moneys worth of cash items and you'd just follow along not buying anything or just quiting which would still mean you're never gonna buy anything.

Trust me everyones wearing the basic starter outfit, or used the free UGC parts they got to create clothes, doing so they got some merets and managed to buy some fashion for themselves, They have not spent a single dime on this game.
So when they come in here and argue about not making the game Pay2Win, they aren't looking at it through a cashers prespective, they don't understand what hardwork is in real life, they have no jobs or extra cash they can spare. They just go to school and get some allowance or something and because they can't spend more or not spend at all they band up and Complain about the people who do have the luxury of spending money to improve their characters.

Lemme ask you guys something, if you paid money for something don't you want to see results?
What makes you believed you have the same standing as a paying player?
I've yet to find someone who can properly and politely explain this to me, in a way that doesn't make me see them as just someone who doesn't have money or doesn't wanna pay and are suffering from huge inferiority complexes as they enter and literally throw insults.

And before you decide to pause and say oh this guy doesn't care about us, I would LOVE a game that's completely vanquished of pay2win methods myself.
But it won't work, The game needs funding there has to be a way to make money for the company It's LOGIC.
Now i've tried reasoning out many ways to keep customers satisfied, while also making it so that free2play players can also keep up without being left behind.

But the backlash and lack of understanding is for a lack of wording, Incredible.

Lemme just point out why i think You free to players are wrong.
First off what have you all been doing since the day you started?
You log in you max a char you do 30 dungeon runs, You make an alt you do the same Rinse and repeat.
Cools that's the basic gaming grind to get ahead wen you're a free to player.
In normal circumstances cashers have an advantage they would be able to access dungeons on a higher limit and get what they want, often only playing 1 character cuz that's all they wanna do and enjoy.
But we can't do that, So the game isn;t Pay2Win Sure it's free to play but guess what?
It's Alt2Win now. If you don't have 7 Atls forget it you're scrub and will remain weak.
You all talk about how cashers shouldn't pay to get ahead, so why are you all making alts? You're doing it because you wanna get ahead fast.
We want that too but we just wanna play one character, That's why most cashers don't have alts. And even if they do it's because they enjoyed the new class, or there was a class specific outfit/hairstyle that they just HAD to get so they made the class.

So here is where i wanna debate you People who keep on ranting about pay2win stuff.
You have the option to make an alt and grind for more stuff. Sure we do too but we are PAYING customers why shouldn't WE have our own option to get ahead just like you guys do?
Heck after this you're gonna say no we don't need that but think about it really hard, Cuz that 3rd option benefits you as well. Events may have vouchers for a few days for you, Your friend can gift you a Karma Coin code and you can buy it too.
IT BENEFITS EVERYONE, so before you start saying oh it makes the game Pay to Win, Know that you yourself a free player are Alt2Win the game which literally means the same thing.
After you bust your knuckles making another char lvl 60 It's easy breezie.
After We cashers BUTS OUR REAL KNUCKLES IN REAL LIFE WORKING FOR THAT PAYCHECK, WE ALSO WANT EASY BREEZIE.
Look at your parents, elders or legal guardians. You see them tired stressed? They work right they try to provide right, IT takes a toll.
You got it lucky that you're being provided for and us cashers [not saying all of us] But some of us work for our money we don't get spoiled or pampered.
So when we pay for something we expect to be spoiled a little bit.
We're not asking for much, We don't need stats on costumes. But you can't sell a costume for 1000+$ and expect us to stay quiet and tell you the costume doesn't deserve stats.
You can't have people Alt2Win without contributing to the servers funding, and expect us not to complain cuz WE DO PAY.
It's downright Robbery at this point, they are using the Outraging Free2Play movement to Rob The cash players from being satisfied customers.
We're not satisfied with our purchase,
We get harassed for wanting it fixed by your community.
We're people like all of you, and have feelings like all of you.
So before you throw a god-dang insult, Take a huge look in the mirror ask yourself if your Alt2Winning and getting ahead, if your overpricing items in the market.
Are you actually a player that is helping the economy/community of the game.
Payer or not, It's about attitude and so far i've only seen a few people who i can side with on the pay2win/Free2play argument on both sides because some of them actually have common sense and don't throw insults like children.

Also the reason this is so one sidedly taking the side of cashers, it's because we're unsatisfied customers or atleast I am one.
I could rant about all the free2play disadvantages here but there isn't many, You just make an alt and your golden.
Everyone's done it, I'm not planning on doing it.
I've seen people just drop off the game at lvl 15, and i don't even understand why.
I'm the type of person that if given something good i share it, but if given something bad well yeah i share that as well. So you see all this salt in this post is because what i've experience in the last 3 Days i played.
Unable to grind for my gear, Players entering dungeons just to leave, Cosmetics that are useless at insane prices.
A ruined marketplace Cuz Alts Dominate the market and get to decide what prices are stuck on.
Toxicity everywhere at the mention of wanting Beneficial improvements to paying customers.

From the looks of it, you guys would like the server to run on air.
I mention this every time, But no one really is caring about the longevity of the game.
I don't want the game to be pay2win either but i will definitely not stand for being robbed like this.
The paying customers are what keep the server alive that is a FACT, if any free to player want's to argue that then prove it right here and right now how you a none paying player, is contributing to the funds to the company.
Nexon is greedy, this whole Free content is a rouse. As i explained above :they actually believe the outfit is worth 1140$ based on their compensation.
Definite proof that their just taking advantage of the situation boiling in the community to get away with fraud and theft. The Cosmetics have stats, you ripped them off but kept the same skyrocketed price. And even went a step ahead and decided "We'll sell SOME" <-- SOME of the crate contents at a "HIGHER" Price. Not to mention you can also pruchase said items in the style shop.
The seraphim sword is worth 3 Coins if dismantled but in he style shop you have to buy it for 16 COINS<-- HOW DOES THAT EVEN?!?

Anyways if you stuck around and read this rant until here, I commend you. I expect great replies with logic and common sense, i am losing brain cells talking to ignorant people who can only throw insults.
ParanoidClericShawnyyCariseiUllAlfaniKitsuru

Comments

  • SecrotsSecrots
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 2,475
    Posts: 138
    Member
    I'm a guy who loves to spend money on games to look unique. Not just unique actually, I want to stand out above the crowd with my fashion. That's what my goal always is when I look what to spend my money on in these games. Gear doesn't do this and fashion does.

    So while it was blasphemous that a set like the Halloween Witch set could cost so much, there was a part of me that was happy because I knew that this decent looking set would be highly exclusive to people. There's only a select amount of people who really would be able to finish the set. From personal experience, I've only met 2 other people in-game (not really from looking) who have finished the set.

    So perhaps as an average paying customer you are not happy, but don't lump us all together. Some of us are actually satisfied with this model.
    mirta000ParanoidClericGummybitesidontreallyknowmanDekoponKitsuruGintonic
  • ParanoidClericParanoidCleric
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 530
    Posts: 3
    Member
    Whilst I have yet to get to spending anything in the marketplace I have full intention to and agree that if I am going to spend my hard earned cash I would like fair compensation for it despite the cry of "Pay2Win" being screamed. However I would like to suggest that if you intend to try to convince those of the alternate view to see from your perspective you keep the Ad Hominem to a minimum so that the discussion does get tainted by people's sensitivities. Overall, I think you had some fantastic points though. Thank you for taking the time to analyze the situation with logic rather than greed and idealism.
    Azuchi
  • mirta000mirta000
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 8,385
    Posts: 515
    Member
    Hello, this is me:

    pZ9SW91.jpg

    I have bought the 100$ founders pack and topped up my merrets twice by 30$. On top of that I gave out aprox 50$ worth of founder's packs in my guild and 30$ worth of merrets. So in total I have so far spent *counts* 240$.

    I am against pay to win. I would like the game to stay populated, please. When I purchase a game, I purchase it to play it, not to pay 1000$ for it to complete itself for me. If a game requires me to do so, I would rather move on, even though I'm good spending countless $ on playing virtual Barbie in an MMO.

    I have no alts. While the drop rate bothers me, the dungeon lockout does not. I do not feel the need for alts, because the only reason purples are expensive right now is because everyone needs them, not because altoholics are controlling the black market. You can see that from the fact that as soon as double drop event started prices fell. I feel like people rushing ahead do not realize that there won't be that much content to gear for and that at some reason they're just going to plateau, so we may as well take our sweet time. I am saying this because the gap between the last update and previous update in Korea was about 11 months. Raids are not falling out of the sky like candy every month.
    HosuIdeghalliaOhCoffeeHeartdonoridontreallyknowmanKitsuruDanDKUmiSonodaFanGintonic
  • AzuchiAzuchi
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 1,275
    Posts: 32
    Member
    Whilst I have yet to get to spending anything in the marketplace I have full intention to and agree that if I am going to spend my hard earned cash I would like fair compensation for it despite the cry of "Pay2Win" being screamed. However I would like to suggest that if you intend to try to convince those of the alternate view to see from your perspective you keep the Ad Hominem to a minimum so that the discussion does get tainted by people's sensitivities. Overall, I think you had some fantastic points though. Thank you for taking the time to analyze the situation with logic rather than greed and idealism.

    It's abit hard to keep myself in check after being insulted so much, but i did do my best to keep myself from downright talking down to other poeple. I'm the kind of person that pays bad with bad, cuz i don't believe they deserve good after the stuff they've done.
    ParanoidClericUll
  • AzuchiAzuchi
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 1,275
    Posts: 32
    Member
    edited 6:54AM October 19, 2018
    Secrots wrote: »
    I'm a guy who loves to spend money on games to look unique. Not just unique actually, I want to stand out above the crowd with my fashion. That's what my goal always is when I look what to spend my money on in these games. Gear doesn't do this and fashion does.

    So while it was blasphemous that a set like the Halloween Witch set could cost so much, there was a part of me that was happy because I knew that this decent looking set would be highly exclusive to people. There's only a select amount of people who really would be able to finish the set. From personal experience, I've only met 2 other people in-game (not really from looking) who have finished the set.

    So perhaps as an average paying customer you are not happy, but don't lump us all together. Some of us are actually satisfied with this model.

    Dpv3PNyXUAAqOv7.jpg:large
    Don't be so quick to assume, I've spend my fair ammount of cash on this game already. And yes i do love this set, but the price tag on it is blasphemous Especially since it's been nerfed down to Cater to "fairplay"
    CariseiUll
  • JetUppercutJetUppercut
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 5,535
    Posts: 299
    Member
    So because other people don't spend as much money on lootboxes as you do, everyone should suffer under some crappy P2W freemium mobile game microtransaction model to satisfy you, specifically? Because you're blaming people that don't want to spend money on crates for the style coin items being too expensive?
    That's the truth I'm gaining from this incredibly long, incredibly terrible post.
    IdeghalliaFinaltidusEcchym0sisDekoponPizzaBearKitsuruDanDKUmiSonodaFan
  • mirta000mirta000
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 8,385
    Posts: 515
    Member
    So because other people don't spend as much money on lootboxes as you do, everyone should suffer under some crappy P2W freemium mobile game microtransaction model to satisfy you, specifically? Because you're blaming people that don't want to spend money on crates for the style coin items being too expensive?
    That's the truth I'm gaining from this incredibly long, incredibly terrible post.

    This rant took many directions from
    "P2W is okay and the only ones opposing it are people that did not spend any money"
    to
    "I hate that F2P players can roll alts too and have an advantage dungeon gear wise"

    Overall it boiled down to "I would like to buy my way to the top", which I don't agree with.
    ArmaBellumIdeghalliaPizzaBearKitsuruDanDKUmiSonodaFan
  • AzuchiAzuchi
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 1,275
    Posts: 32
    Member
    mirta000 wrote: »
    Hello, this is me:

    pZ9SW91.jpg

    I have bought the 100$ founders pack and topped up my merrets twice by 30$. On top of that I gave out aprox 50$ worth of founder's packs in my guild and 30$ worth of merrets. So in total I have so far spent *counts* 240$.

    I am against pay to win. I would like the game to stay populated, please. When I purchase a game, I purchase it to play it, not to pay 1000$ for it to complete itself for me. If a game requires me to do so, I would rather move on, even though I'm good spending countless $ on playing virtual Barbie in an MMO.

    I have no alts. While the drop rate bothers me, the dungeon lockout does not. I do not feel the need for alts, because the only reason purples are expensive right now is because everyone needs them, not because altoholics are controlling the black market. You can see that from the fact that as soon as double drop event started prices fell. I feel like people rushing ahead do not realize that there won't be that much content to gear for and that at some reason they're just going to plateau, so we may as well take our sweet time. I am saying this because the gap between the last update and previous update in Korea was about 11 months. Raids are not falling out of the sky like candy every month.

    You look adorable, And you have a point. But that's something we can't really count on much. This isn't KR It's already a huge change that we got a Exclusive Halloween event just for us, which isn't in KR already. It's subject to change, we could end up getting more content as from what i've seen from mmo's in NA compared to MMO's in KR, Na is much quicker to shoot money at things they like. It wouldn't be a stretch to expect them to roll our server their own way and dish out new content.
  • mirta000mirta000
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 8,385
    Posts: 515
    Member
    Azuchi wrote: »
    You look adorable, And you have a point. But that's something we can't really count on much. This isn't KR It's already a huge change that we got a Exclusive Halloween event just for us, which isn't in KR already. It's subject to change, we could end up getting more content as from what i've seen from mmo's in NA compared to MMO's in KR, Na is much quicker to shoot money at things they like. It wouldn't be a stretch to expect them to roll our server their own way and dish out new content.

    We are very much dependent on what KR team does, as NA team couldn't even make as much as a mini game without KRs approval. Nexon NA is the smallest of all of the branches and there was talk about would they even be allowed to complete the mini game arcade. Designing a whole raid is very much out of the question.
    Ull
  • AzuchiAzuchi
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 1,275
    Posts: 32
    Member
    mirta000 wrote: »
    So because other people don't spend as much money on lootboxes as you do, everyone should suffer under some crappy P2W freemium mobile game microtransaction model to satisfy you, specifically? Because you're blaming people that don't want to spend money on crates for the style coin items being too expensive?
    That's the truth I'm gaining from this incredibly long, incredibly terrible post.

    This rant took many directions from
    "P2W is okay and the only ones opposing it are people that did not spend any money"
    to
    "I hate that F2P players can roll alts too and have an advantage dungeon gear wise"

    Overall it boiled down to "I would like to buy my way to the top", which I don't agree with.

    Don't put words in my mouth. If you paid any attention it all boils down too: If they have the option to gear up fast for free using alts.

    Why can't We have the option to do the same on a single character.

    This doesn't count as buying your way to the top, it's basicly having An accessible way to do the same thing your all doing but just on one character.

    If push comes to shove, take limits completely off and get everyone on even footing I wouldn't mind that. But since you're blind enough to just missunderstand what i've said and just wanna label me as someone who wants to "Buy his way" To the top then you warrant no more replies from me after this.

    Also even if i were to PAY to have unlimited dungeon access i'd still have to GRIND my way to the top. It wouldn't be pay2win regardless cuz i still have to put in the work.
    Ull
  • AzuchiAzuchi
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 1,275
    Posts: 32
    Member
    edited 7:05AM October 19, 2018
    So because other people don't spend as much money on lootboxes as you do, everyone should suffer under some crappy P2W freemium mobile game microtransaction model to satisfy you, specifically? Because you're blaming people that don't want to spend money on crates for the style coin items being too expensive?
    That's the truth I'm gaining from this incredibly long, incredibly terrible post.

    I don't Care about the dang lootboxes, I care about my character progression.
    The lootboxes i only brought forward to display Nexons current abuse of this whole situation and how their getting a "STEAL" from us paying players because it's a no brainer, keep costumers unsatisfied while hiding behind people like YOU specifically who blindly defend the game.
    CariseiUll
  • ArmaBellumArmaBellum
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 510
    Posts: 5
    Member
    edited 7:35AM October 19, 2018
    You do realize people who pay can also roll alts, right? What are you going to do when everyone pays and also rolls alts and you (specifically you, because you don't want to roll alts) can't buy the disadvantage away?

    I mean, I can see where you're coming from and a cohesive argument could be made on the grounds of "people who don't have time to do 180 dungeon runs a week also would like to enjoy the game", however, people who do have the time to do 180 dungeon runs a week can also benefit from pay to win options, so all you're doing is giving even bigger advantages to a smaller percentage of people (people who run multiple alts and are willing to pay), and giving even bigger disadvantages to people who don't have the money or the time or the will to make alts. All in all, you will still be pretty screwed since you won't have alts anyways so you won't be able to compete with those who have.

    I mean, yeah, the drop rates are pretty terrible taking into account they're combined with daily and weekly dungeon caps and that epic gear is a must if you actually wanna play the endgame, all of that added to the fact that there's not really much to do if you're interested in fighting stuff other than repeat the same dungeons forever. But the way to fix it is not to let people buy away the game's terrible design choices, it's to fix those choices and make the game more enjoyable for everyone.

    I'm all for giving people the option to lower their time investment into the game by paying so people with jobs or kids or whatever obligations can be in equal grounds with people who can spend 12h a day ingame. But giving exclusive gameplay benefits to people who pay is and has always been a recipe for catastrophe.

    And in any case, if paying premium in this game sucks so much, why are you even paying? Nobody is forcing you to pay, you aren't entitled to anything.
    mirta000ParanoidClericTechn0mancerIdeghalliaWTBGTRiNsaneKitsuru
  • AzuchiAzuchi
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 1,275
    Posts: 32
    Member
    mirta000 wrote: »
    Azuchi wrote: »
    You look adorable, And you have a point. But that's something we can't really count on much. This isn't KR It's already a huge change that we got a Exclusive Halloween event just for us, which isn't in KR already. It's subject to change, we could end up getting more content as from what i've seen from mmo's in NA compared to MMO's in KR, Na is much quicker to shoot money at things they like. It wouldn't be a stretch to expect them to roll our server their own way and dish out new content.

    We are very much dependent on what KR team does, as NA team couldn't even make as much as a mini game without KRs approval. Nexon NA is the smallest of all of the branches and there was talk about would they even be allowed to complete the mini game arcade. Designing a whole raid is very much out of the question.

    Yup, this is a What If conversation all we got is speculations. We don't know what they plan on doing, or even how fast they plan on including future updates.
    So you are right.
    So i'll just give you my personal opinion on the whole "Rushing to end gear would make the game boring" A lot of people use this as the crutch to why people don't need to rush in the game. It's a Valid argument and i do get it, but it only works based on the Individual.
    My goals in a game: Grind the best gear, get that out the way then help other people out.
    Once i'm done with gear i know i can free-roam and do whatever i want I enjoy that sense of freedom.
    Being able to help people dungeon, Doing mini games, Finding the the achievements. I can do that with much ease on my mind if i know i don't have to worry about what the next piece of gear i need to get is.
    But this is just me Personally if people get bored of the game after getting end game gear, then i can't speak for them. I on the other hand wouldn't Ive been on since day 1 the only reason im not doing much is because i am too focused on getting my gear set done, So i have no time for other things. When dungeon runs reach the limit im left agonizing about how i could be farming more runs instead of doing basically nothing for the remainder of my free time.
    It's honestly annoying and makes me loath the game even though i love it so much.
  • DocDoomDocDoom
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 1,265
    Posts: 56
    Member
    edited 7:13AM October 19, 2018
    So because other people don't spend as much money on lootboxes as you do, everyone should suffer under some crappy P2W freemium mobile game microtransaction model to satisfy you, specifically? Because you're blaming people that don't want to spend money on crates for the style coin items being too expensive?
    That's the truth I'm gaining from this incredibly long, incredibly terrible post.

    This. I do work sir, and a lot, but that doesn't mean I agree with you, in my point of view, wasting money on mere pixels aren't the brightest idea, the difference between me and you, however, is that I respect you as a casher, but yet you don't respect me being a f2p player as a option.

    Sure, I do spend little amounts to support the game, although I strongly disagree with your point of view, you sound too snob for me, the kind of people who won't even waste time communicating with people that haven't wasted money on the game, which is a shame.
    mirta000DragonicWolfKitsuru
  • mirta000mirta000
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 8,385
    Posts: 515
    Member
    Azuchi wrote: »
    Don't put words in my mouth.

    I have highlighted your original post's lines where it seems to me like you're asking for a stat advantage over a F2P player.
    Azuchi wrote: »
    Nexon: We're gonna make this game as free to play as possible, With no means of giving paying players advantages.
    [Basicly the people giving us money can go suck it] A genius plot, no matter how much us paying players complain about how we're not satisfied with our purchase, they just get to sit back and watch the [Free2PlayMovement] Rage on us and tell insult/harrass us into a corner while they get to keep our money and change nothing to keep us around. [Technically business suicide but some of us are stubborn and will stick around cuz they know we love the game]

    Next up we got the Free2Play movement community, Honestly being a guy who normally takes the side of the free2play i've noticed....Every single person who's been arguing about this Clearly never plans on buying ANYTHING from the premium market.
    Let's be honest you're not gonna buy anything, you're definitly not gonna support the server by purchasing any fashion.
    And because of that simple fact, you guys will band up and Tell every soul that if they Make this game pay2Win It will die....How so? You're never gonna buy cash so what difference would it make?
    We'd get our moneys worth of cash items and you'd just follow along not buying anything or just quiting which would still mean you're never gonna buy anything.

    Trust me everyones wearing the basic starter outfit, or used the free UGC parts they got to create clothes, doing so they got some merets and managed to buy some fashion for themselves, They have not spent a single dime on this game.
    So when they come in here and argue about not making the game Pay2Win, they aren't looking at it through a cashers prespective, they don't understand what hardwork is in real life, they have no jobs or extra cash they can spare. They just go to school and get some allowance or something and because they can't spend more or not spend at all they band up and Complain about the people who do have the luxury of spending money to improve their characters.

    Lemme ask you guys something, if you paid money for something don't you want to see results?
    What makes you believed you have the same standing as a paying player?

    And before you decide to pause and say oh this guy doesn't care about us, I would LOVE a game that's completely vanquished of pay2win methods myself.
    But it won't work, The game needs funding there has to be a way to make money for the company It's LOGIC.

    Lemme just point out why i think You free to players are wrong.
    First off what have you all been doing since the day you started?
    You log in you max a char you do 30 dungeon runs, You make an alt you do the same Rinse and repeat.
    Cools that's the basic gaming grind to get ahead wen you're a free to player.
    In normal circumstances cashers have an advantage they would be able to access dungeons on a higher limit and get what they want, often only playing 1 character cuz that's all they wanna do and enjoy.
    But we can't do that, So the game isn;t Pay2Win Sure it's free to play but guess what?
    It's Alt2Win now. If you don't have 7 Atls forget it you're scrub and will remain weak.
    You all talk about how cashers shouldn't pay to get ahead, so why are you all making alts? You're doing it because you wanna get ahead fast.
    We want that too but we just wanna play one character, That's why most cashers don't have alts. And even if they do it's because they enjoyed the new class, or there was a class specific outfit/hairstyle that they just HAD to get so they made the class.

    So here is where i wanna debate you People who keep on ranting about pay2win stuff.
    You have the option to make an alt and grind for more stuff. Sure we do too but we are PAYING customers why shouldn't WE have our own option to get ahead just like you guys do?

    So when we pay for something we expect to be spoiled a little bit.

    We're not asking for much, We don't need stats on costumes. But you can't sell a costume for 1000+$ and expect us to stay quiet and tell you the costume doesn't deserve stats.

    You can't have people Alt2Win without contributing to the servers funding, and expect us not to complain cuz WE DO PAY.
    It's downright Robbery at this point, they are using the Outraging Free2Play movement to Rob The cash players from being satisfied customers.

    Also the reason this is so one sidedly taking the side of cashers, it's because we're unsatisfied customers or atleast I am one.
    I could rant about all the free2play disadvantages here but there isn't many, You just make an alt and your golden.

    Unable to grind for my gear, Players entering dungeons just to leave, Cosmetics that are useless at insane prices.
    Toxicity everywhere at the mention of wanting Beneficial improvements to paying customers.


    Definite proof that their just taking advantage of the situation boiling in the community to get away with fraud and theft. The Cosmetics have stats, you ripped them off but kept the same skyrocketed price.
    Kitsuru
  • AzuchiAzuchi
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 1,275
    Posts: 32
    Member
    ArmaBellum wrote: »
    You do realize people who pay can also roll alts, right? What are you going to do when everyone pays and rolls alts and you can't buy the disadvantage away?

    Did you like....not Read what i said or stopped at that part?
    How is there any disadvantage there?
    Also better question, why would they even roll alts? If they can literally spam the dungeon on their best character?
    Did you not think this through or...cuz i see no disadvantage here.
    The only way it would be a disadvantage is if they can play 2 characters at the same time and trust me they can't unless their Goro from mortal combat.
    Ull
  • AzuchiAzuchi
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 1,275
    Posts: 32
    Member
    edited 7:28AM October 19, 2018
    DocDoom wrote: »
    So because other people don't spend as much money on lootboxes as you do, everyone should suffer under some crappy P2W freemium mobile game microtransaction model to satisfy you, specifically? Because you're blaming people that don't want to spend money on crates for the style coin items being too expensive?
    That's the truth I'm gaining from this incredibly long, incredibly terrible post.

    This. I do work sir, and a lot, but that doesn't mean I agree with you, in my point of view, wasting money on mere pixels aren't the brightest idea, the difference between me and you, however, is that I respect you as a casher, but yet you don't respect me being a f2p player as a option.

    Sure, I do spend little amounts to support the game, although I strongly disagree with your point of view, you sound too snob for me, the kind of people who won't even waste time communicating with people that haven't wasted money on the game, which is a shame.

    I'm speaking against the majority of people who are quick to insult those who actually spend cash on the game, and are ready with guns blazing to insult and harass them, If you're not one of them i don't see why you have to feel disrespected.
    I'm perfectly fine with people not paying the game, maybe the way i said it made it seem like it isn't so it may have come out as offensive. So i apologize for it.
    The point i wanted to make was that, those who don't spend money on the game will not feel any of these hindrances, and those who do will.

    And if you don't want to spend money on it it's fine, but people who don't spend money on it but want to bash down the complaints of those who do.
    Those are the ones i don't respect.
    We complain because we're not getting our moneys worth on supporting the game and wanting to keep it alive.

    Now that i Apologize let me explain something to you, The moment you come in and take jabs and call people a Snob, and assume you can''t communicate with them. That makes you a bigger jerk.
    I never name-called anyone, I never shamed them. I only pointed out what i'm seeing.
    If it came out as offensive, You can point it out like you did without being such a brat that labels people and believe they can insult them just because they have a assumption of how the person is.
    You don't know me, you just saw me complain and instantly presumed im a snob.
    I've repeatedly stated i wanna find a good middle-ground for both paying players and free players, but the reason im siding with paying players is because people like you who come in, name-shame-and degrade others doesn't warrant my support.
    I've met people who cashed and also have problems with some of these issues, they addressed them with me and even disagreed on some parts. but never did they come in insulting me. You on the other hand have. So I apologize if my complaints made them seem like I'm not siding with the free-players but again....you can read your own comment to me and understand why i can't help but not side with you guys.
    Ull
  • AzuchiAzuchi
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 1,275
    Posts: 32
    Member
    edited 7:38AM October 19, 2018
    mirta000 wrote: »
    Azuchi wrote: »
    Don't put words in my mouth.

    I have highlighted your original post's lines where it seems to me like you're asking for a stat advantage over a F2P player.
    Azuchi wrote: »
    Nexon: We're gonna make this game as free to play as possible, With no means of giving paying players advantages.
    [Basicly the people giving us money can go suck it] A genius plot, no matter how much us paying players complain about how we're not satisfied with our purchase, they just get to sit back and watch the [Free2PlayMovement] Rage on us and tell insult/harrass us into a corner while they get to keep our money and change nothing to keep us around. [Technically business suicide but some of us are stubborn and will stick around cuz they know we love the game]

    Next up we got the Free2Play movement community, Honestly being a guy who normally takes the side of the free2play i've noticed....Every single person who's been arguing about this Clearly never plans on buying ANYTHING from the premium market.
    Let's be honest you're not gonna buy anything, you're definitly not gonna support the server by purchasing any fashion.
    And because of that simple fact, you guys will band up and Tell every soul that if they Make this game pay2Win It will die....How so? You're never gonna buy cash so what difference would it make?
    We'd get our moneys worth of cash items and you'd just follow along not buying anything or just quiting which would still mean you're never gonna buy anything.

    Trust me everyones wearing the basic starter outfit, or used the free UGC parts they got to create clothes, doing so they got some merets and managed to buy some fashion for themselves, They have not spent a single dime on this game.
    So when they come in here and argue about not making the game Pay2Win, they aren't looking at it through a cashers prespective, they don't understand what hardwork is in real life, they have no jobs or extra cash they can spare. They just go to school and get some allowance or something and because they can't spend more or not spend at all they band up and Complain about the people who do have the luxury of spending money to improve their characters.

    Lemme ask you guys something, if you paid money for something don't you want to see results?
    What makes you believed you have the same standing as a paying player?

    And before you decide to pause and say oh this guy doesn't care about us, I would LOVE a game that's completely vanquished of pay2win methods myself.
    But it won't work, The game needs funding there has to be a way to make money for the company It's LOGIC.

    Lemme just point out why i think You free to players are wrong.
    First off what have you all been doing since the day you started?
    You log in you max a char you do 30 dungeon runs, You make an alt you do the same Rinse and repeat.
    Cools that's the basic gaming grind to get ahead wen you're a free to player.
    In normal circumstances cashers have an advantage they would be able to access dungeons on a higher limit and get what they want, often only playing 1 character cuz that's all they wanna do and enjoy.
    But we can't do that, So the game isn;t Pay2Win Sure it's free to play but guess what?
    It's Alt2Win now. If you don't have 7 Atls forget it you're scrub and will remain weak.
    You all talk about how cashers shouldn't pay to get ahead, so why are you all making alts? You're doing it because you wanna get ahead fast.
    We want that too but we just wanna play one character, That's why most cashers don't have alts. And even if they do it's because they enjoyed the new class, or there was a class specific outfit/hairstyle that they just HAD to get so they made the class.

    So here is where i wanna debate you People who keep on ranting about pay2win stuff.
    You have the option to make an alt and grind for more stuff. Sure we do too but we are PAYING customers why shouldn't WE have our own option to get ahead just like you guys do?

    So when we pay for something we expect to be spoiled a little bit.

    We're not asking for much, We don't need stats on costumes. But you can't sell a costume for 1000+$ and expect us to stay quiet and tell you the costume doesn't deserve stats.

    You can't have people Alt2Win without contributing to the servers funding, and expect us not to complain cuz WE DO PAY.
    It's downright Robbery at this point, they are using the Outraging Free2Play movement to Rob The cash players from being satisfied customers.

    Also the reason this is so one sidedly taking the side of cashers, it's because we're unsatisfied customers or atleast I am one.
    I could rant about all the free2play disadvantages here but there isn't many, You just make an alt and your golden.

    Unable to grind for my gear, Players entering dungeons just to leave, Cosmetics that are useless at insane prices.
    Toxicity everywhere at the mention of wanting Beneficial improvements to paying customers.


    Definite proof that their just taking advantage of the situation boiling in the community to get away with fraud and theft. The Cosmetics have stats, you ripped them off but kept the same skyrocketed price.

    It's easy to highlight parts of the conversation and point out the bad without context.
    How about you READ the entire thing, grasp the context instead playing the game of social media where you take parts without context and make the person seem like a villain.

    Let me point out that you are selectively choosing to understand that I want stats on fashion items, No I'm pointing out that they used to have stats.
    So it would be Expected that if you're going to remove stats and nerf an outfit you should oh i don't know DROP THE PRICE.
    THATS what im getting at, You're so into the whole stat advantage that you're too blind to see that im complaining about he pricing.

    To simplify it for you. They took a Car that's worth 5000$ Took out it's engine and wheels and you stil have to pay 5000$ for it it makes no sense.
    CariseiUll
  • DocDoomDocDoom
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 1,265
    Posts: 56
    Member
    Azuchi wrote: »
    DocDoom wrote: »
    So because other people don't spend as much money on lootboxes as you do, everyone should suffer under some crappy P2W freemium mobile game microtransaction model to satisfy you, specifically? Because you're blaming people that don't want to spend money on crates for the style coin items being too expensive?
    That's the truth I'm gaining from this incredibly long, incredibly terrible post.

    This. I do work sir, and a lot, but that doesn't mean I agree with you, in my point of view, wasting money on mere pixels aren't the brightest idea, the difference between me and you, however, is that I respect you as a casher, but yet you don't respect me being a f2p player as a option.

    Sure, I do spend little amounts to support the game, although I strongly disagree with your point of view, you sound too snob for me, the kind of people who won't even waste time communicating with people that haven't wasted money on the game, which is a shame.

    I'm speaking against the majority of people who are quick to insult those who actually spend cash on the game, and are ready with guns blazing to insult and harass them, If you're not one of them i don't see why you have to feel disrespected.
    I'm perfectly fine with people not paying the game, maybe the way i said it made it seem like it isn't so it may have come out as offensive. So i apologize for it.
    The point i wanted to make was that, those who don't spend money on the game will not feel any of these hindrances, and those who do will.

    And if you don't want to spend money on it it's fine, but people who don't spend money on it but want to bash down the complaints of those who do.
    Those are the ones i don't respect.
    We complain because we're not getting our moneys worth on supporting the game and wanting to keep it alive.

    Now that i Apologize let me explain something to you, The moment you come in and take jabs and call people a Snob, and assume you can''t communicate with them. That makes you a bigger jerk.
    I never name-called anyone, I never shamed them. I only pointed out what i'm seeing.
    If it came out as offensive, You can point it out like you did without being such a brat that labels people and believe they can insult them just because they have a assumption of how the person is.
    You don't know me, you just saw me complain and instantly presumed im a snob.
    I've repeatedly stated i wanna find a good middle-ground for both paying players and free players, but the reason im siding with paying players is because people like you who come in, name-shame-and degrade others doesn't warrant my support.
    I've met people who cashed and also have problems with some of these issues, they addressed them with me and even disagreed on some parts. but never did they come in insulting me. You on the other hand have. So I apologize if my complaints made them seem like I'm not siding with the free-players but again....you can read your own comment to me and understand why i can't help but not side with you guys.

    That's why I said you sounded snob, because I don't know you, therefore, it was a presumption of what your post presented, so yes, it was a misconception maybe of your real personality but it was what your post presented to me at the first glimpse. You've made a public post, opinions and comments will come eventually, my point of view was sincere, as yours.
  • mirta000mirta000
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 8,385
    Posts: 515
    Member
    Azuchi wrote: »
    It's easy to highlight parts of the conversation and point out the bad without context.
    How about you READ the entire thing, grasp the context instead playing the game of social media where you take parts without context and make the person seem like a villain.

    Let me point out that you are selectively choosing to understand that I want stats on fashion items, No I'm pointing out that they used to have stats.
    So it would be Expected that if you're going to remove stats and nerf an outfit you should oh i don't know DROP THE PRICE.
    THATS what im getting at, You're so into the whole stat advantage that you're too blind to see that im complaining about he pricing.

    I did read the entire thing. I quoted pretty much the entire thing too. You got to understand that to anyone but you, it doesn't really read like a very coherent on-topic post. You go from "those evil alts" to lootboxes, back to some sort of fight between F2P players and cash buyers, then off to something about advantages. It does not read like one a thought through topic, but more like you wanted to write 5 different ones, couldn't put your thoughts together and just mashed it all into one page without even giving it a second glance.

    If I ignore lines about lootboxes, this is what makes me think that you're here asking for an advantage over F2P players:

    "if they Make this game pay2Win It will die....How so?"
    A very obvious pro P2W line.

    "So when they come in here and argue about not making the game Pay2Win, they aren't looking at it through a cashers prespective"
    This could be translated to "cash buyers support P2W". Another pro P2W line.

    "who do have the luxury of spending money to improve their characters."
    Whenever the word "improve" is used, one normally means stat wise. As you can't really "improve" or "be superior" at a cosmetic level. That is up to taste.

    "if you paid money for something don't you want to see results?
    What makes you believed you have the same standing as a paying player?
    "
    This translates to "F2P players should not be on equal footing to P2P players". If anything what you said is a lot more inflammatory as you're essentially asking them what makes them think that they should be able to live up to someone like you.

    "And before you decide to pause and say oh this guy doesn't care about us, I would LOVE a game that's completely vanquished of pay2win methods myself.
    But it won't work, The game needs funding there has to be a way to make money for the company It's LOGIC."
    This statement is "the game needs P2W to survive". You go on about how you would love for P2W elements to not exist, but I don't really believe you considering that you previously asked why F2P players believe that they should be on equal footing to you.

    "In normal circumstances cashers have an advantage"
    This implies that you came from games where you can get ahead with money and you consider that to be normal.

    "Sure we do too but we are PAYING customers why shouldn't WE have our own option to get ahead just like you guys do?"
    Implying that you want to pay to get ahead.

    "So when we pay for something we expect to be spoiled a little bit."
    Implying that you want to feel special for spending money.

    I have completely ignored all your statements on stats on costumes at the moment and you still create the image of wanting to be able to pay money to get ahead. If this is not what you wanted to convey with your post, I suggest you change your original post, as this is what you're conveying to the world.
    ArmaBellumDishonesteaOhCoffeeTalnovaKhalykGTRiNsaneKitsuruKrylusConspiGintonic