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The REAL UGC Rips/Stolen outfit update

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  • KhalykKhalyk
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 2,500
    Posts: 128
    Member
    edited 12:20AM October 18, 2018
    LuminaEdge wrote: »
    Khalyk wrote: »
    I have a question though and as I am not a creator I havent looked very far into the EULA for clarification on any stipulations for design. What I mean is copyrighted material Nexon has a vested interest in moderating to keep themselves out of legal trouble, however you as a person, who has no copyright on a original intellectual property upload said IP into Nexon's public forum ie. "The Game" it is no longer your property as that digital asset working within MS2 is now property of Nexon. And as they are getting a cut of every transaction in that system they dont necessarily care who uploads it as long as its selling because again, its their property. I was wondering if there was anything specificly stating that Nexon was allowing creators to retain ownership of their IP if loaded into their platform?

    According to the ugc policy, we do not surrender the rights of the IP. we give nexon themselves the license to use anything we make in any media they post or create as they need regarding the game. This license is not a surrender of IP. Nexon just now has a right to profit from your work and use it promotionally.

    The policy also states that the agreement is only active IF the uploaded work does NOT infringe upon the copyright of a 3rd party. Which ugc stealers are doing. Thus making their policy agreement with nexon void.

    Finally, according to US law, (Which Nexon America is based in) all works are legally copyrighted on creation. Its a common misconception that you have to register a work to have a copyright. This is false. The only thing is when challenged in a court of law, you need some sort of tangible proof of yourself being the creator.

    Registering your copyright however does allow you certain options such as pursuing statutory damages, which you would not if you didn't. Its also a lot stronger evidence in a court of law.

    Erm... You may want to review Nexon America's UGC policy again then. One of the more interesting lines being this.

    In exchange for use of our interactive services, and to the extent that your contributions through use of our interactive services give rise to any copyright interest, you hereby grant Nexon an exclusive, perpetual, irrevocable, fully transferable and sub-licensable worldwide right and license to use your contributions in any way and for any purpose in connection with the Software and related goods and services, including the rights to reproduce, copy, adapt, modify, perform, display, publish, broadcast, transmit, or otherwise communicate to the public by any means whether now known or unknown and distribute your contributions without any further notice or compensation to you of any kind for the whole duration of protection granted to intellectual property rights by applicable laws and international conventions. To the extent permitted by applicable law, you hereby waive any moral rights of paternity, publication, reputation, or attribution with respect to Nexon's and other players' use and enjoyment of such assets in connection with the Game and related goods and services under applicable law. The license grant to Nexon, and the above waiver of any applicable moral rights, survives any termination or revocation of this Agreement.

    (That by agreeing here you have given them perpetual use to use, modify, sub-license, reproduce the IP while also require you to waive the ability of paternity and publication,which is basically your ownership rights of the IP)

    And this,

    Nexon does not assume any liability for any failure to remove, or any delay in removing, content.

    Cited for sourcing
    https://support.nexon.net/hc/en-us/articles/206109896-User-Generated-Content
    Nanachi_CCCP
  • ShadowsBeneaShadowsBenea
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 3,880
    Posts: 459
    Member
    Wlia wrote: »
    why bother making UGC xD seem only the ugly creations and stolen items make all the money while rest of us just waste cash for no profit at all xD

    This is unfortunately the reality of art in general. For instance, there are many extremely talented artists on art websites that get zero attention, whereas artists that are not as talented get a lot of attention simply because they choose to take advantage of popular content like Naruto. In reality , passion and skill does not usually lead to high profit. Taking advantage of the market by catering to the demands of the many is what leads to profit. If I wanted to make profit, I would research what media (anime, movies, games, books, etc) are very popular , and then make items loosely based on those popular things while avoiding copyright, much like how video game developers make a logo like "pineapple" instead of "apple" on their phone and computer assets.

    I feel too gross going for the profit side of things. It goes against my core values. So I just make content that I enjoy, and hope that at least a couple of other people out there like the content as well.

    Stolen items and items that are google images pastes are a whole other ball game though.

    It's even worse when they are literally stealing your content and just posting it for themselves on alt accounts. I've been told by a few people... that people's stuff is being stolen after purchases and just re uploaded under different names or color...
  • DragonicWolfDragonicWolf
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 2,320
    Posts: 172
    Member


    It's even worse when they are literally stealing your content and just posting it for themselves on alt accounts. I've been told by a few people... that people's stuff is being stolen after purchases and just re uploaded under different names or color...

    Absolutely. It is incredibly sickening and makes my blood run hot.

    ShadowsBeneaWlia
  • waduhekkwaduhekk
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 100
    Posts: 2
    Member
    IslandXD wrote: »
    I don't know what can be done, but something should be done.
    As much as I know a lot of people who are "relevant" to the game and it's development, personally I don't know what can even be done.
    As to the discord chat, that guild is cancerous. We all know it on the server.
    I play pretending they don't even exist.

    Funny, one of the member of that guild once told me, "You're wasting your time making UGC and I won't make any notable profit."
    Ha. So funny how things have changed since then.

    ooo you sound mad and you seem to forget pretty quickly the folder that started all of this came from your little clique :D ugc god but gets bodied by art who doesn't even play the game YEET LMAO
  • FateMS2FateMS2
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 400
    Posts: 2
    Member
    edited 1:25AM October 18, 2018
    IslandXD wrote: »
    I don't know what can be done, but something should be done.
    As much as I know a lot of people who are "relevant" to the game and it's development, personally I don't know what can even be done.
    As to the discord chat, that guild is cancerous. We all know it on the server.
    I play pretending they don't even exist.

    Funny, one of the member of that guild once told me, "You're wasting your time making UGC and I won't make any notable profit."
    Ha. So funny how things have changed since then.

    Wait how can you call other guild cancerous.. when all your guild does is build Autistic Rockets? https://imgur.com/a/jiBQwjb #1 in Server indeed. Don't forget the fact that the Rust Drama caused back in CBT :) we all remember.

    Besides, I'm pretty sure Rust/LionHeart started the UGC Folder...
  • waduhekkwaduhekk
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 100
    Posts: 2
    Member
    LuminaEdge wrote: »
    Khalyk wrote: »
    I have a question though and as I am not a creator I havent looked very far into the EULA for clarification on any stipulations for design. What I mean is copyrighted material Nexon has a vested interest in moderating to keep themselves out of legal trouble, however you as a person, who has no copyright on a original intellectual property upload said IP into Nexon's public forum ie. "The Game" it is no longer your property as that digital asset working within MS2 is now property of Nexon. And as they are getting a cut of every transaction in that system they dont necessarily care who uploads it as long as its selling because again, its their property. I was wondering if there was anything specificly stating that Nexon was allowing creators to retain ownership of their IP if loaded into their platform?

    According to the ugc policy, we do not surrender the rights of the IP. we give nexon themselves the license to use anything we make in any media they post or create as they need regarding the game. This license is not a surrender of IP. Nexon just now has a right to profit from your work and use it promotionally.

    The policy also states that the agreement is only active IF the uploaded work does NOT infringe upon the copyright of a 3rd party. Which ugc stealers are doing. Thus making their policy agreement with nexon void.

    Finally, according to US law, (Which Nexon America is based in) all works are legally copyrighted on creation. Its a common misconception that you have to register a work to have a copyright. This is false. The only thing is when challenged in a court of law, you need some sort of tangible proof of yourself being the creator.

    Registering your copyright however does allow you certain options such as pursuing statutory damages, which you would not if you didn't. Its also a lot stronger evidence in a court of law.

    except...most of these rips come from china and some from korea which have very different copyright laws because in china ANYONE can use your creation for ANYTHING including profit, so if an item wasn't created in the US, then is it under US copyright law or is it china? either way you have the burden of proof and the ripper doesn't.
  • mirta000mirta000
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 8,385
    Posts: 515
    Member
    waduhekk wrote: »
    except...most of these rips come from china and some from korea which have very different copyright laws because in china ANYONE can use your creation for ANYTHING including profit, so if an item wasn't created in the US, then is it under US copyright law or is it china? either way you have the burden of proof and the ripper doesn't.

    My biggest issue with this is that a lot of the new rips are rips of newly made stuff on NA. Let's forget Korean and Chinese rips for a while. When the rightful owner reports a rip on NA, even those don't get taken care of.
    ShadowsBeneaWlia
  • mirta000mirta000
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 8,385
    Posts: 515
    Member
    edited 3:38AM October 18, 2018
    heck the game doesn't even have the basic protection that an already uploaded currently on sale template can't be put up on sale at the same time

    ObnsIAv.jpg

    "Black Dress"
    "Cute Dress"
    "Maid Dress"
    All the same item, all on the same page on EU. With more if you scroll further back. The only consolation is that everything is selling pretty abysmally on EU.
  • IritokiIritoki
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 1,035
    Posts: 14
    Member
    waduhekk wrote: »
    most of these rips come from china

    how do you know? or is this a statement to try make it seem okay for people to rip chinese ugc? cause personally i noticed far too many rips coming from kms2 players in stores.
    Tsene
  • WliaWlia
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 1,485
    Posts: 107
    Member
    edited 4:36AM October 18, 2018
    LOOOOL seriously now this is going beyond stupid
    ?interpolation=lanczos-none&output-format=jpeg&output-quality=95&fit=inside%7C1024%3A575&composite-to=*,*%7C1024%3A575&background-color=black
    ?interpolation=lanczos-none&output-format=jpeg&output-quality=95&fit=inside%7C1024%3A575&composite-to=*,*%7C1024%3A575&background-color=black
    ?interpolation=lanczos-none&output-format=jpeg&output-quality=95&fit=inside%7C1024%3A575&composite-to=*,*%7C1024%3A575&background-color=black
    No comment xD
    DragonicWolfmirta000TseneShadowsBenea
  • LutiasLutias
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 2,880
    Posts: 96
    Member
    Thanks for posting this. I think the main problem is the scope of awareness and concern, because pretty much the only ones who care are artists who work hard for their creations. They're losing out on sales due to stolen works soaking up merets and are even at risk of others making a profit off their own creations. Almost everyone else is either uninformed or doesn't care, even though it is a major issue in dire need of addressing. The people who steal outfits know what they are doing and know that nothing is being done, and have this attitude of "I'm making free money and Nexon isn't doing anything and everyone else is doing it too, if you don't do it you're cheating yourself" that is really unhealthy for the creative aspect of the game. So far, we've had Nexon mention this issue once but nothing has been done since. It's been so long since my reports and tickets that people who have stolen my designs have already walked away with their merets. Please, Nexon, pay attention to this issue.
    mirta000Iritoki
  • TseneTsene
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 4,485
    Posts: 256
    Member
    edited 5:32AM October 18, 2018
    It's not really surprising when there's tons of literal screenshots, IRL images and manga rips used on UGC. People have 0 respect towards coypright laws/rules and it's really sad to see.

    As an artist I won't be sharing any of my UGC (when I have the time to start making it seriously) due to this.
    mirta000Arkives
  • BluclueBluclue
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 5,190
    Posts: 434
    Member
    edited 7:04AM October 18, 2018
    They should implement some sort of limit just like world chat. Maybe a prestige limit. At least this will make it more difficult for people to meret farm with alts. Additionally, the free template coupons should be character bound and not be able to create outfits that can be sold on the design mart.
  • PeepPeep
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 2,055
    Posts: 136
    Member
    I think in order to solve this problem they need to start issuing perma bans for doing this. It's the only way to properly deter people. Right now people have nothing to lose so they're doing it on purpose, but if they have something to lose they aren't going to be so quick to risk it.
  • NightingaleNightingale
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 755
    Posts: 25
    Member
    Honestly they need to disable the whole thing until they figure out how they are going to fix this. This is absolutely unacceptable. I will not be buying anything from the design shop (and I am a cosmetic lover and waste lots of money on nx) Hopefully more people will to
  • NightingaleNightingale
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 755
    Posts: 25
    Member
    czlr wrote: »
    To make it clear about #2 Duck made, these are not just random people.
    I won't name names, but they are literally the rank 1 guild (I won't name the server) who are doing it on a systematic basis.
    We have literally caught 5+ separate individuals of that guild selling ripped UGC on the meret market.

    is it against the rules to put them on blast, because we should, garbage ppl honestly
  • BluclueBluclue
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 5,190
    Posts: 434
    Member
    edited 8:28AM October 18, 2018
    czlr wrote: »
    To make it clear about #2 Duck made, these are not just random people.
    I won't name names, but they are literally the rank 1 guild (I won't name the server) who are doing it on a systematic basis.
    We have literally caught 5+ separate individuals of that guild selling ripped UGC on the meret market.

    is it against the rules to put them on blast, because we should, garbage ppl honestly

    witch hunting is not allowed according to the rules of the game. I cant even expose these people on official forums without a warning/mute.
  • LuminaEdgeLuminaEdge
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 8,535
    Posts: 363
    Member
    Khalyk wrote: »

    Erm... You may want to review Nexon America's UGC policy again then. One of the more interesting lines being this.

    In exchange for use of our interactive services, and to the extent that your contributions through use of our interactive services give rise to any copyright interest, you hereby grant Nexon an exclusive, perpetual, irrevocable, fully transferable and sub-licensable worldwide right and license to use your contributions in any way and for any purpose in connection with the Software and related goods and services, including the rights to reproduce, copy, adapt, modify, perform, display, publish, broadcast, transmit, or otherwise communicate to the public by any means whether now known or unknown and distribute your contributions without any further notice or compensation to you of any kind for the whole duration of protection granted to intellectual property rights by applicable laws and international conventions. To the extent permitted by applicable law, you hereby waive any moral rights of paternity, publication, reputation, or attribution with respect to Nexon's and other players' use and enjoyment of such assets in connection with the Game and related goods and services under applicable law. The license grant to Nexon, and the above waiver of any applicable moral rights, survives any termination or revocation of this Agreement.

    (That by agreeing here you have given them perpetual use to use, modify, sub-license, reproduce the IP while also require you to waive the ability of paternity and publication,which is basically your ownership rights of the IP)

    And this,

    Nexon does not assume any liability for any failure to remove, or any delay in removing, content.

    Cited for sourcing
    https://support.nexon.net/hc/en-us/articles/206109896-User-Generated-Content

    Wording matters a lot here.

    You're assuming that this phrase
    To the extent permitted by applicable law, you hereby waive any moral rights of paternity, publication, reputation, or attribution with respect to Nexon's and other players' use and enjoyment of such assets in connection with the Game and related goods and services under applicable law. The license grant to Nexon, and the above waiver of any applicable moral rights, survives any termination or revocation of this Agreement.

    means that ownership has been waived or given to nexon. That's incorrect.

    What HAS been given away is the creator's moral rights. Not the IP itself, this is a big difference.

    These are the rights to decide how your work should be portrayed and who can wear your work. And the ability to protest HOW your work is portrayed. For example, a copyright holder could request that Nexon add a footnote saying (c) artist in EVERY screenshot nexon uses or posts that just so happens to have your ugc in it. This clause is saying Nexon does NOT have to do that. It also gives away the right to complain about your ugc being used in a manner offensive to you and to demand any media by nexon or screenshots posted by people who wears your ugc be removed or taken down.

    All of this however is irrelevant to the discussion. This thread is about people ripping ugc and reuploading it.


    All of the permissions granted by the creators on upload only apply to Nexon, and nexon has to actively transfer those rights to a 3rd party for them to be protected. Nexon is not giving over their rights to every ugc ripper that hits the upload button so next to nothing applies to them.

    Most of this only applies to people seeking financial damages and legal action. Players are seeking moderation and enforcement of policies Nexon themselves established. Not the legal system.
    BluclueRaeviraIritoki
  • RacerjoshRacerjosh
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 510
    Posts: 14
    Member
    edited 8:56AM October 18, 2018
    How do people steal the UGC Templates/Designs though, they'd have to be getting them from somewhere??? Or is it possible to buy an outfit and rip the template from the files area??? Very Curious about this because i'm a Mount Maker... Really wouldn't like templates i've spent hours on to be ripped from me and put on market by some Lowbie Alt Account....

    1ad1090244134afcf21b68a165f52b99.png

    0adf9bf861bdfa986c350a9233da650e.png

    Still Modifying this one but... I mean some stuff takes A LOT of work and fine tuning to get perfect... and for someone to just rip and act like its theres is BS... Honestly started making mounts to give people higher quality ones cause its sad when a Basic Recolor of a Bike texture is the most sold mount... 34~$250 sales last I checked and creator didn't even change rims.

    -Kagerou
  • BluclueBluclue
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 5,190
    Posts: 434
    Member
    Racerjosh wrote: »
    How do people steal the UGC Templates/Designs though, they'd have to be getting them from somewhere??? Or is it possible to buy an outfit and rip the template from the files area??? Very Curious about this because i'm a Mount Maker... Really wouldn't like templates i've spent hours on to be ripped from me and put on market by some Lowbie Alt Account....

    1ad1090244134afcf21b68a165f52b99.png

    0adf9bf861bdfa986c350a9233da650e.png

    Still Modifying this one but... I mean some stuff takes A LOT of work and fine tuning to get perfect... and for someone to just rip and act like its theres is BS... Honestly started making mounts to give people higher quality ones cause its sad when a Basic Recolor of a Bike texture is the most sold mount... 34~$250 sales last I checked and creator didn't even change rims.

    -Kagerou

    I wont go into details but its possible to steal the design as long as you can preview it on a model of the right size. Usually via design mart preview or viewing a profile.
    Tsene
This discussion has been closed.