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[Feedback] Hard Adventure Dungeons

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  • KatsKats
    Maplestory 2 Rep: 4,405
    Posts: 213
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    edited 7:31AM August 3, 2018
    Firedragon is cool. With your blue gears u find in dungeons, u can handle him allright with the party.
    Chaos Raid has way to much HP. lower plz
    Dungeon Cap is rly bad. This will make alot ppl not even coming back to the official launch.
    We get forced to build more then 1 characters which is meh.
    Nerf chaos a bit! :) , Revive with merets should be 20 all the time. don't increase plz.thats just cheeky , 0.50 dollar cents to revive is to much.
    Great game overal, just needs some tweaks and fixes here and there. 1000 merets which is 10 euro is gone easily in chaos dev, and even in Balrog u use alot merets with full +10 purple gear! thats wrong.

    Chaos Devorak is the perfect example of a well balanced raid.

    Only issue with Balrog is hitboxes and the absolute need for ranged classes.

    Dungeon cap I agree needs to be changed.
  • LastLvlBossLastLvlBoss
    Maplestory 2 Rep: 310
    Posts: 8
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    In relation to the hard adventure mode it was fun and challenging. I liked how well the bosses movement patterns and attack patterns altered between different bosses. I really appreciated how much variety was applied and how there was an emphasis on giving characters moments where they are on the brink of death but if they had acquired average gear along the way, they would not die

    As you break new territory by creating this unique 3D maple experience, its hard to gauge how to improve such an well established game mode. I feel maple can differentiate its self by incorporating more difficult terrain options in the different maps, Such as have different level on a forest type map, or have quick sand pits that randomly generate on a dessert type map, maybe potentially have a map where players are fighting on a high platform in order to fight a flying boss, or lastly potentially have blindness be a potential ailment where players might have a hard time finding the boss they are fighting or their other players in their party

    For more potential ideas and recommendations, feel free to contact me via email @ dominic.d83@hotmail.com
  • EternalxEternalx
    Maplestory 2 Rep: 3,895
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    Please remove the fight fair debuff. What is the point of working hard to defeat a dungeon to gain better gear only to be nerfed again?
  • MaaateenMaaateen
    Maplestory 2 Rep: 1,125
    Posts: 21
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    there should be a option for 4man and 10man for the 2 hard dungeons. it allows more people to join together and have more fun
  • MorninggMorningg
    Maplestory 2 Rep: 600
    Posts: 14
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    Difficulty level is good and fun!

    Just the fight fare debuff is bad and not fun.

    #NoFightFare
  • ShángSháng
    Maplestory 2 Rep: 2,445
    Posts: 89
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    The Fire Dragon/Barlog hard dungeons in my opinion should be moved back to raid status.
    Things ads in Barlog require a lot of teamwork and having only 4 people is quite rough.
    They were made to be raids they should be kept that way.

    - Shang
  • KatsKats
    Maplestory 2 Rep: 4,405
    Posts: 213
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    Sháng wrote: »
    The Fire Dragon/Barlog hard dungeons in my opinion should be moved back to raid status.
    Things ads in Barlog require a lot of teamwork and having only 4 people is quite rough.
    They were made to be raids they should be kept that way.

    - Shang

    Fire Dragon is perfectly fine though, borderline a tad too easy lol.
    Yes, a Priest is "required" (as usual, there's ways around it) but that doesn't mean it should be moved back to a 10 player raid lul.

    Balrog just needs a few tweaks, in particular, the boss "arena" needs a few tweaks to make it more melee friendly, and can also throw in a few platforms that spawn in for people to avoid his last phase, making Knight not required either.
  • BottyBotty
    Maplestory 2 Rep: 640
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    edited 5:59PM August 7, 2018
    Lucis wrote: »
    Hiyate wrote: »
    I've been having a blast doing the fire dragon. Took me four runs to not die once.

    While very chaotic first there is a lot of telegraphing from the boss which makes it feel fair (I still have a hard time seeing the difference between laser and bombs though). Learned a lot from watching more experienced players in my party as well.

    What I think is bad is how good the loot from these are. They really shouldn't drop that many epics, that can even be dismantled to make epics for you class. I went from being OHKO from most attacks to not being OHKO from any attack in a few runs.
    It ruins the whole sense of progression since I got full epic gear in one evening (10 runs), and it's even worse how good they are (which is the real problem). They give too much room for mistakes. My most fun run of this dungeon was probably my first where I died 10+ times. Now I can get hit by the laser and live... (I'm not really punished for playing badly which means I have no incentive to play better).

    Either nerf epics or don't give out that many. A drop rate of 2 (class specific) epics per 10 dungeons would be fine (i.e. 20% chance for a class specific), and nothing else. Remove the non-class specific drops that can't be sold/traded and remove the chests you get from them (replace them with blues and/or onyx crystals or something). Especially since this is the first hard dungeon you will likely unlock.

    About that...

    you were just lucky

    I have to keep going 3 days straight on the dungeon to get full epic

    lol 3 days straight to get full epic....I ended closed beta with capping out on 30 runs each weak and still missing belt, earrings and cloak for epics...rng is rng :(

  • OllieGOllieG
    Maplestory 2 Rep: 615
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    This feedback is very late but I wanted to compile all my thoughts and share them. For reference, I played in both closed betas and was relatively fast in clearing PVE content (Pyrros - day 2, Balrog - day 4). I will try to order the feedback according to my experience chronologically

    1. Weekly dungeon cap - I think the daily cap of 10 runs is perfect. No one should be able to sit at their PC 24/7 and infinitely loot and progress. The cap at 30 weekly runs makes no sense. In essence, many players such as myself are being punished for leveling quickly and pushing PVE content. On days 1 and 2, there are no max level Epic weapons to buy on the BM, so to obtain the gear score for Pyrros, we had to manually grind rare to epic gear in Normal Adventure Dungeons. I do not mind having to do that, in fact, I enjoy it as I feel that it is a more honest leveling and gearing experience, but it is cutting into my precious weekly dungeon runs. Depending on RNG, I may have to run 5-10 Normal dungeons before I even qualify for Pyrros. Then I am already down to 25-20 runs of Hard dungeons to gear for chaos raid. People who leveled to 50 on day 4-5 can just buy the epic weapon from the BM and go into Pyrros with a fresh 30 runs. I want to reiterate that I think the BM is great. My issue is with the weekly dungeon cap. If 10 runs a day is deemed appropriate, the weekly cap shouldn't exist or at least be raised to 50 to be more in line with daily cap.

    2. Difficulty - In general, I believe that boss mechanics for Hard dungeons and chaos raids are interactive and interesting. My issue lies in the numbers specifically for Balrog and cDev. I have cleared Balrog over 30 times in CBT2 and cDev once towards the end of the beta, so I give this feedback genuinely outlining my experience. Balrog's HP is too high for the amount of mechanics he has. Early runs of Balrog took as long as 25 mins for 4 players which is absurdly long considering you are standing on the same platform the whole entire time. Another issue is the damage he deals. Balrog has many attacks that are essentially undodgable (AOE roar, first swing of 3 hit combo) and deal ridiculous amounts of damage. In CBT, this was alleviated by auto potting on pets but on launch players will not the merets to buy elixirs for dungeon clearing. I fear that for new players who don't have merets, Balrog will be very, very difficult to complete. I am fine with touch of death boss mechanics as long as the moves are dodgable which for Balrog many are not. cDev is actually much better about having mechanics that instantly kill you but are dodgable. In general, I do feel that Pyrros, Balrog, and cDev all have inflated HP numbers that can be brought into line but I will talk more about that later

    3. Dungeon vs. Raid - Pyrros being a 4 man dungeon seems OK. I prefer the 10 man raid from CB1 but it is fine. I have noticed that many parties early on struggle to do Pyrros simply because they cannot find a priest. Since priest seems to be a qualifying restriction for forming parties using Dungeon Finder, DF is also much slower than it was in CB1. If there are 8 classes and assume that all classes are fairly equally represented by top players at end game (I know this is not the case but just for argument's sake), then finding 1 priest for 9 other players is much more in line with class demographics than 1 priest to 3 other players. Once new classes are added the disparity will only increase. Balrog is a much bigger issue. Limiting Balrog to 4 players is extremely limiting for party compositions. To minimize pot expenditure, a Knight is highly preferred. Without a Knight, each player could be using over 30 elixirs a run which is not feasible at launch. Other must have classes are Archer/Heavy Gunner/Assassin to clear adds. With entry level gear score, having 2 Archer/HG/Sin is basically mandatory to kill adds at a reasonable pace. This leaves only one slot for any other class. Many parties prefer to have priest which completes a composition (K, P, A/HG, A/HG). This is extremely limiting for guilds or players that want to help friends clear. We are forced to run Balrog multiple times with a perfect composition before having good enough gear to be able to help other players run the dungeon. Choosing to play a class should NOT immediately disqualify you from joining a dungeon!

    4. "Fight fair" debuff - MANY people have touched on this so I won't go into rant mode. Places I think debuff should exist: Normal dungeons, elite mobs
    Places I think debuff should NOT be: Hard dungeons, world bosses. Reasoning: we should feel the rewards of gearing up. If I want to take it easy one day and just clear Pyrros to farm some onyx, I should not feel like I just got to level 50 if I have legendary gear. Same concept for world bosses: Basically impossible to kill without 20-30 people no matter their gear. If I spend the time to get legendary gear I should be able to go with a few guild buddies and kill a world boss.

    Other notes:
    - Shiny Balrog weapon has lower GS than Pyrros weapon? Makes it hard to gear for cDev
    - Clearing X under X minutes objective for dungeons seems too fast but it wouldn't be an issue if "fight fair" wasn't a thing
    PilikenXtony
  • SaintoneSaintone
    Maplestory 2 Rep: 4,365
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    edited 1:15PM August 10, 2018
    It should be taken into very notable consideration that between Pyrros Fard and Balrog, there are actually two dungeons that were omitted from the beta. I presume it is because Balrog is more iconic, they wished to showcase this boss for the beta. The difficulty may be lower considering this. Likewise, Chaos Devorak will likely be easier as well (as I had written in the Chaos Raid feedback thread) as there are two additional Hard Adventure Dungeons between Balrog and Chaos Devorak.

    Balrog has a Chaos raid version, in which this version utilizes a party of 10 instead of 4.

    I agree that Fair Fight has no place inside the dungeon environment. I'd also like to see it either entirely removed, or the effect on different weapon tiers be reduced (e.g. Legendary/Ascendant gear might be a little more reduced but since they're leaps and bounds stronger than Epic gear they'd still do noticeably higher damage). To which, I was pleasantly surprised when using a Legendary weapon was about 25% stronger than using an Epic weapon in Hard Balrog. I'd still like to see this penalty reduced.
  • AjaeAjae
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    Posts: 45
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    edited 10:44PM August 10, 2018
    Alright so after reading a lot of comments, and although this will feel like im just restating other comments i felt some information needed to be addressed.

    1. Fair fight, imo and as other stated, should just be removed. I understand the concept of making dungeons and world bosses harder, but as others have stated, when you have the highest tier gear, you want to be able to clear balrog, or pyrros, quick. <- i will continue this in #2

    2. Is Dungeons, now the reason why you'd want to clear it quick, for one reason it's to quicken up the pace of dungeon runs, by making runs faster it would allow you have more free time to do trophies, or music, or ugc's, and to even do normal adventures quickly for certain trophies, or to kill certain bosses in dungeons. The reason i hate fair fight in dungeons is because if I were to do pyrros and took me 10mins with fair fight, <- doing this 10x would waste so much of the free time i would have, and i'm sure that the amount of time other maplers have is very scarce, especially with school coming back. But it would also be nice to get incredibly quick clears with the gear you worked so hard to progress on. Now my input for the dungeons have a cap of 30/30 runs, is actually fine by me, because it make you create alternate characters to play on, meaning you won't get bored playing the same class for 3 months straight. I understand some don't want to play more than just 1 character, but imagine this, if you have a 70/70 dungeon cap, and had 3 characters. The amount of onyx crystals and chaos onyx crystals, would be HUGE. and would take less time than having multiple characters with a 30/30 weekly cap. The reason 70/70 would be bad is for the fact that onyx crystals would be so inflated that enchanting would #1 literally be a joke since you would only ever have to get the weapons for enchants. #2 for the fact that they would be too easy access. You also have to keep in mind that the 30/30 weekly caps give you chest rewards for completing a certain amount of dungeons. How massive of a reward would 70/70 give? This is just my opinion and in-take on the dungeons. (edit) p.s the dungeon rewards from normal adventures were absolutely terrible, and as a player that rushed to level 50, the lower level and some higher level dungeons were a terrible time. It felt like i was hitting the boss with an inflatable balloon for 10 minutes. Which also leads me to the boss Pekauros and his terrible mechanics. <- everything about that boss is terrible, the incredibly fast attacks, the usual un-dodge-able charge, the non-stop healing if you dont deal enough damage, and the amount of damage dealt himself is horrendous, that even with the current potions, if he did the same combo 2 times (charge into the swing/debuff thats pretty hard to not get hit by) i would be dead. (i was a knight)

    3. This is the last one and it goes back to dungeons. #1 the RNG to go from Normal dungeons to HARD-adventure dungeons, The reason i say this is because as the comment 2 above mine, i did 18/30 runs, and i didn't get a single epic gear.... 18 runs of the level 50 tronnix bunker, and 0 epics, this left me with buying my longsword (knight) off the Black market for a price of 4.5m..... i was poor for the next 4 days, having a hard time making money, and owing guild mates since the price was so high. #2 more epic gear options for other classes, im sure you've noticed and heard, but only 4 classes have a chance for the epic armor, and epic weapon while the 4 other classes, Knight, Berserker, Thief, and Assassin, either needed the rng luck to get the epic overall, or to wait until their weapon was on sale for an incredibly high price. This kills the rush for those aiming for first raids since its incredibly RNG based, but also since the 4 classes with the extra weapon options, have better chances to continue on.
    I did also notice that the normal adventures had some chances on cosmetic equipment, <where you get 20/20 fragments for the cosmetic. Which i thought was incredibly amazing and cool. until i realized you cant get them unless you waste some of your weekly limit. I would appreciate if the chances for the cosmetics were potentially lowered, but where you could still get them even after dungeon weekly cap, which also gives extra stuff for those at level 50 to do. However i would like to do these without the fair fight buff, since with it would waste an incredible amount of time. And would push me away from actually attempting to get them.

    That is all, and thanks
    Happy mapling
  • ClikClaCBooMClikClaCBooM
    Maplestory 2 Rep: 330
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    REMOVE DUNGEON CAP
    REMOVE FAIR FIGHT
    INCREASE DUNGEON REWARD
    ALLOW NON CLASS SPECIFIC ITEMS FOR TRADE. EX. IF IM A WARRIOR I CAN TRADE EVERYTHING EXCEPT WARRIOR ITEMS AND CLASS WEAPONS.
    AGAIN REMOVE DUNGEON CAP
  • RivalunRivalun
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    My only issue with dungeons was the "fair fight" made gearing up feel underwhelming as old content didnt get much faster as you geared up.
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