Please read this notice regarding the Crystal Ore shop >> http://forums.maplestory2.nexon.net/discussion/45351/regarding-the-crystal-ore-shop
Closed

[Feedback] Level Progression

Comments

  • LastLvlBossLastLvlBoss
    Maplestory 2 Rep: 310
    Posts: 8
    Member
    I personally loved how unique maple took its classic grinding method of gameplay and freshened it up in order give new life to the games new version

    I enjoyed the mini games as a casual break between questing and grinding @ mobs, which i found myself doing little grinding with everything that was available to do. I do feel like the forced, semi short, social interactions definitely brought a unique experience to the game and helped establish more of a emotional connection with other players and the game itself

    If feel like a tad more experience could be handed out in other areas of the game, such as decorating, fishing, music, and all life skills

    One thing i would love is to progressively reward players who venture out into newer maps, a higher percentage change to get the random Secret Hat mini games which was literally the one of the main reasons why i had 308 stars prior the 2nd week of the beta starting. This could provide incentive's to explore more, test out what area's are acting more as filler, and allowing the game to be more of an experience rather then just another mmo

    If you would like any other ideas or suggestions feel free to email me @ dominic.d83@hotmail.com
  • OneMapleLeafOneMapleLeaf
    Maplestory 2 Rep: 400
    Posts: 11
    Member
    edited 10:42PM August 3, 2018
    Level progression is okay while doing quests at your level, however once you are done with those quests, you are left with only grinding dungeons and monsters which can get tiring and boring. This is especially because dungeons and monsters don't provide that much experience.
  • LockeExileLockeExile
    Maplestory 2 Rep: 1,275
    Posts: 40
    Member
    edited 9:42AM August 4, 2018
    Todas wrote: »
    Either make it so that leveling to 50 takes an hour or two, or make it so that leveling to 50 takes a MONTH or two, and redistribute content across the leveling curve so you don't HAVE to be level 50 to play the game. Choose one of those options. They are both equally viable.
    points to this comment emphatically

    This is the identity crisis MS2 faces. This is why the feedback in this thread is so mixed. You have people who expect to breeze through the 1-50 tutorial to get to the actual content and say leveling is too slow, and you have people who expect to unlock the content along their journey to 50 and say leveling is too fast. Both have the same end goal of experiencing content and you can please both crowds. But you need to pick a way to get there; you can't try to mix the two or you'll end up displeasing both.

    ...gonna quote this concept again to see if it sticks:
    Todas wrote: »
    you don't HAVE to be level 50 to play the game
  • cygnusituscygnusitus
    Maplestory 2 Rep: 510
    Posts: 5
    Member
    I like how 1-50 is quick because it jumps you straight into the boss system and social aspects of the game. However, post 50.... Thats where the real grinding begins.
  • LockeExileLockeExile
    Maplestory 2 Rep: 1,275
    Posts: 40
    Member
    edited 9:52AM August 5, 2018
    Finished reading through the thread...

    To those who got stuck underleveled doing epic quests - were you not doing world quests, life skills, or any exploring? I was easily several levels above the epic quests the whole time...

    To those dying too much - were you not using the copious amounts of potions the epic quests gave you? I was still trying to use up my red potions at 50...

    To those citing the difficulty of 70+ in kms2 - isn't that just because there's no 70+ content? It'd be pretty hard to get to 50 in gms2 (even cbt1) if our best option was grinding level 30 mobs...

    To those saying the game doesn't start until 50 - if you think this game is all about raids and dungeons and maxing equipment, then I think you're playing the wrong game... there are plenty of other things to do, and much of it can be done before 50. Exploration, quests, life skills, minigames, customization and expression... they're all part of the core game experience, not just a tutorial.

    To those saying "this is a casual game so leveling should be easy" (and to those saying "this should be a hardcore game with difficult leveling") - is there no room for a casual game with steady progression? Do you really need to be 50 asap in order to play casually? That seems backwards to me. To me, "casual" is "play at your own pace, do whatever activities you enjoy regardless of how quickly they make you stronger". Leveling can take a long time without being "grindy". Of course, this requires nexon to not hide most of their content like dailies and pets behind level cap, and to make the experience of leveling fun with multiple options...

    Here are my opinions...

    Mob difficulty - this game's combat system revolves around spirit and cooldown management. Battles lasting less than a couple seconds would undermine that. This isn't MS1 where you can just spam your flashy skill to kill everything on the screen at once and then use an MP potion. This is about skill rotations and kiting. Some of my most exhilarating experiences were grouping up 10+ mobs and trying to stay alive while also trying to attack them efficiently. Mobs also need to live long enough for everyone in the party to tag them for exp. That said, I wouldn't complain if their hp and damage were reduced just a little bit (but still higher than cbt1 values). Also, people have made valid points about killing mobs not being rewarded enough, and world bosses being too hard to solo (do more to encourage grouping up - make them only spawn on certain channels, make it easier to see which channels have an active battle, and send messages for people to join).

    EXP balance - I'm one of the "leveling is too fast" people but I agree that exp can be better balanced by buffing dungeons, world quests, and mobs/bosses (...or nerfing epic quests farther), and yeah you probably shouldn't lock SP behind epic quests. Consider this: epic quests give potions and standard equipment, world quests give extra mesos, dungeons give special equipment and upgrade materials, exploration gives trophies and other collectibles, etc., but they all give the same exp.

    Content balance: KappaDrew said earlier about ms1 - "Barely anyone was 200, and quite frankly there wasnt really a need to be." That's because content was balanced across levels and not all locked behind "endgame". Nobody would be complaining that getting to 50 is too slow if they had meaningful and fun things to do before 50. Let us capture pets before 50. Let us do daily missions before 50. Let us work on improving equipment before 50 (currently it's a waste to upgrade or buy because it'll be obsolete in a few levels). Give us meaningful rewards from pre-50 dungeons. Give us a pre-50 raid. Let us do over-leveled content if we've put the effort into strengthening our character.
    bolder_tasteSnackCakesDanDKNavokidatboycuongNimioAlzackSaphirClintJrLeekTheV3getableand 2 others.
  • KandoriKandori
    Maplestory 2 Rep: 750
    Posts: 9
    Member
    Pots wrote: »
    Leveling is atrocious in CBT2 compared to CBT1. The epic questline was much more streamlined in CBT1 and grinding didn't feel nearly as tedious. The suggestions coming after CBT1 to "slow down leveling" were made purely by people that are coming back from old-school MS1 that are looking at it at purely rose-colored glasses. The whole point of leveling in MS2 is supposed to be you get to 50 at a reasonable pace so you can access the main content (ie. raids). Side quests are fine if you want to keep them but don't make them detract from the main epic questline. At the very least going back to CBT1 leveling progression would be a vast improvement over the CBT2 leveling progression.

    So JUST raids is your idea of main content? That's awfully short sided of you. As big as this game is if your idea of main content is a very limited quantity of raid runs per week then you're basically begging for a dead game socially and in terms of game play. So just for a good laugh, when you've finished your 10 raids a day (which can be finished in under 7 minutes per run later on and even less than that when more people become better equipped) then what?
    DanDKDalsiaClintJrAlzackBakaAniki
  • KandoriKandori
    Maplestory 2 Rep: 750
    Posts: 9
    Member
    Pots wrote: »
    Also I'd like to add on to my previous post, people don't seem to realize two things:

    1. Level 50 is NOT END GAME, frankly it's not even halfway to end-game. Level 50 was only max level in the CBT and will NOT be max level in official launch. Everyone's acting as if once they get to 50 then the game is over. The game will not be capped at 50 but reading through some comments here it seems like everyone thinks that is the case. "I got to 50 too fast I don't want to rush through content etc. etc." First of all, nobody is forcing you to rush through the maps. People are acting like they are forcing you to rush through the content. If you truly care and want to take the "scenic route" then DO IT. Nobody is forcing anybody to rush.

    2. MapleStory 2 is NOT MapleStory 1. These are different games but it seems like people are still talking about how they want this game to be like MapleStory 1. Although it's the same IP, these two games are vastly different. "MS1 used to be about grinding and I want to grind more", "MS1 leveling was slow and that's how I liked it". These are SEPARATE GAMES, yet everyone still wants MS2 to conform to their idea of what MS1 was. If you want to grind or if you want to have a different leveling system, go play MapleStory 1. The complaints about how MS2 isn't like MS1 would be more valid if MS2 was more of a "sequel" to MS1 rather than a completely different game and a thoroughly different game play experience. The jump between MS1 and MS2 is way more complex and different than the jump between something like Call of Duty Black Ops 2 and Call of Duty Black Ops 3.

    How could you think that a game with the same title but with a 2 behind it wouldn't be viewed a sequel..? There's a reason why people want MS1 leveling, it was better and felt more rewarding. Some of you people saying that "lvl 50 isn't the cap" are technically right, but your gear is capped at lvl 60 so while lvling to 99 is the "cap" there's little to no reason to go beyond 60 once you get the gear.. So once people starting reaching 60 in 1 week of playtime and get their gear.. then what..?
    NavokiDalsiabolder_tasteTricycleBakaAniki
  • NavokiNavoki
    Maplestory 2 Rep: 1,010
    Posts: 18
    Member
    Personally I feel leveling is pretty decent where its at or if anything needs to be a tad bit slower.

    In a game i dont want to hit max level within a few hours of playing an be hit with endgame content that again will be done within a few hours just to finish everything an be bored.

    Ive already seen countless amounts of people say "Ive already hit 50 an now theres nothing to do after doing your daily raids" an then gripe an complain in the chat box.

    An with so many different activities already giving decent experience I.E. fishing, housing, exploration an more you can level pretty quick as it is.

    People just need more patience, its about the journey, not the ending.

    Ive seen some people mention as well about level an progression not being tied to the story an i agree with this if its a thing. players should have access to level how they choose be it grinding mobs, farming dungeons, completing quests, or life skill like activities.
  • MaaateenMaaateen
    Maplestory 2 Rep: 1,125
    Posts: 21
    Member
    Lvling to 50 doesnt feel fun at all because you have to go out of your way to reach the lvl needed for the next quest.
  • datboycuongdatboycuong
    Maplestory 2 Rep: 390
    Posts: 7
    Member
    LockeExile wrote: »
    Finished reading through the thread...

    To those who got stuck underleveled doing epic quests - were you not doing world quests, life skills, or any exploring? I was easily several levels above the epic quests the whole time...

    To those dying too much - were you not using the copious amounts of potions the epic quests gave you? I was still trying to use up my red potions at 50...

    To those citing the difficulty of 70+ in kms2 - isn't that just because there's no 70+ content? It'd be pretty hard to get to 50 in gms2 (even cbt1) if our best option was grinding level 30 mobs...

    To those saying the game doesn't start until 50 - if you think this game is all about raids and dungeons and maxing equipment, then I think you're playing the wrong game... there are plenty of other things to do, and much of it can be done before 50. Exploration, quests, life skills, minigames, customization and expression... they're all part of the core game experience, not just a tutorial.

    To those saying "this is a casual game so leveling should be easy" (and to those saying "this should be a hardcore game with difficult leveling") - is there no room for a casual game with steady progression? Do you really need to be 50 asap in order to play casually? That seems backwards to me. To me, "casual" is "play at your own pace, do whatever activities you enjoy regardless of how quickly they make you stronger". Leveling can take a long time without being "grindy". Of course, this requires nexon to not hide most of their content like dailies and pets behind level cap, and to make the experience of leveling fun with multiple options...

    Here are my opinions...

    Mob difficulty - this game's combat system revolves around spirit and cooldown management. Battles lasting less than a couple seconds would undermine that. This isn't MS1 where you can just spam your flashy skill to kill everything on the screen at once and then use an MP potion. This is about skill rotations and kiting. Some of my most exhilarating experiences were grouping up 10+ mobs and trying to stay alive while also trying to attack them efficiently. Mobs also need to live long enough for everyone in the party to tag them for exp. That said, I wouldn't complain if their hp and damage were reduced just a little bit (but still higher than cbt1 values). Also, people have made valid points about killing mobs not being rewarded enough, and world bosses being too hard to solo (do more to encourage grouping up - make them only spawn on certain channels, make it easier to see which channels have an active battle, and send messages for people to join).

    EXP balance - I'm one of the "leveling is too fast" people but I agree that exp can be better balanced by buffing dungeons, world quests, and mobs/bosses (...or nerfing epic quests farther), and yeah you probably shouldn't lock SP behind epic quests. Consider this: epic quests give potions and standard equipment, world quests give extra mesos, dungeons give special equipment and upgrade materials, exploration gives trophies and other collectibles, etc., but they all give the same exp.

    Content balance: KappaDrew said earlier about ms1 - "Barely anyone was 200, and quite frankly there wasnt really a need to be." That's because content was balanced across levels and not all locked behind "endgame". Nobody would be complaining that getting to 50 is too slow if they had meaningful and fun things to do before 50. Let us capture pets before 50. Let us do daily missions before 50. Let us work on improving equipment before 50 (currently it's a waste to upgrade or buy because it'll be obsolete in a few levels). Give us meaningful rewards from pre-50 dungeons. Give us a pre-50 raid. Let us do over-leveled content if we've put the effort into strengthening our character.

    This post here is easily the best feedback on this topic. Double-edge sword here. Hardcore players that just want to do raids will complain it's too slow whereas casual players who enjoy the adventure and story will complain it is too fast. The problem is that you have many "elitist" players who will want to race to max level and get gear from raids ASAP. Those are the same players that will then write toxic posts about how there is not enough content in the game and that the game is stale. MapleStory 2 is more about dungeons and raids. If you want dungeons and raids, then go play WoW. The most exciting thing about MS2 is that it's bringing the social aspect of MMOs back into reality. Enjoy life skills, mini games, raiding, dungeons, etc. This game has a lot of potential to bring the FUN back into MMOs. What made old MMOs fun in the past? The socialization! :)
    TricycleClintJrLeekTheV3getableBakaAniki
  • vertigoalexvertigoalex
    Maplestory 2 Rep: 620
    Posts: 8
    Member
    I think that the exp from grinding mobs in the open world needs to be buffed/increased. The only realistic way to level at all right now is by doing quests. Doing quests is not for everyone and there should be different ways of leveling to suit people's gameplay styles. Grinding mobs was one of the main focuses of MS1 and it would be a nice addition to see here. It brought people together. I also think the amount of time spent on quest chains should be reflected in the reward gain. I remember spending about 40 minutes on a dungeon quest in CBT2 solo, which as a priest took me a lot longer than most people, only to receive the same amount of exp that I did for a previous quest which only took me 5 minutes to complete.
    Tricycle
  • RoyRickShawRoyRickShaw
    Maplestory 2 Rep: 610
    Posts: 8
    Member
    Leveling would be more fun if you could efficiently level with friends, rather than grinding through the main story
    Tricycle
  • XxPoseidonxXXxPoseidonxX
    Maplestory 2 Rep: 2,450
    Posts: 220
    Member
    I like it as it is CBT2. What we truly need is for solid game content post the level 50 tutorial. I think some have said the social things can be done before 50. So, that's great. We need all the social activities early, for the casual crowd. So, the 1-50 is just long enough to give them a challenge.

    To appease the other half, the game will need to increase it's difficulty. And this could be done post level 50. From here the content could favor those who prefer a grindy hardcore game. With grueling(?) boss battles / mechanics that yield powerful equipment and difficult to acquire titles, etc. Just don't bar "casual" rewards behind this type of system. And don't make it so difficult that players have no choice but to party.

    It would make post level 50 kind of optional, I guess. And to balance this we can flesh out the low level content a lot more. Create more unlockables and reasons to grind a level 30 dungeon instead of a 50+ one. Although, I wouldn't lock in game progression any more than it already is to force players to do those dungeons.


    I guess these changes wouldn't be too difficult... What's important though is to work within your template. MS2 is a fairly old game so take the examples that worked and made the game stronger in favor of those that brought player dissent and depopulation of the game. (May I have a beta mask?)


    Although, I have one pet peeve... The damage values are too high and that doesn't scale well when considering the future. The hp values of player characters/bosses and our damage/their damage needs to be scaled better. Fake difficulty is bad difficulty. So bosses that one or two shot players who know their mechanics just because that's the way the game is designed, is something that would need to be reworked thoroughly. I would say just take one of the more popular Asia scaling systems. Probably KMS2's.
  • ShángSháng
    Maplestory 2 Rep: 2,555
    Posts: 90
    Forum Moderator
    The constant roadblocks is consistent with the leveling progression of Maplestory Mobile.
    In my opinion this doesn't work many people used exploits to get pass these dead ends.
    Making leveling less linear people also got lost finding what to do to get to the next level.

    - Shang
  • al4nw31al4nw31
    Maplestory 2 Rep: 220
    Posts: 7
    Member
    I wish that side quest XP or drops would be buffed a bit. Seems like exploration is a little faster than it, and I only did side quests when they were convenient. I miss a few of the unique drops that side quests used to drop (instead of just health potions, XP and mesos).

    It would be fun to have a few chairs through quests or something.
  • PalithPalith
    Maplestory 2 Rep: 200
    Post: 1
    Member
    I don't know where to post this but I was frustated to not being able to see my critical chance in percentage on my character so please a Critical Chance percentage info in advanced stats.

    Thank you.
  • 5hellFish5hellFish
    Maplestory 2 Rep: 420
    Posts: 7
    Member
    i felt leveling was to fast, i enjoy long grinding
  • AlzackAlzack
    Maplestory 2 Rep: 3,745
    Posts: 167
    Member
    Like I mentioned earlier inside different forum thread before end of CBT2, leveling curve seemed still too fast to me despite being toned down a bit due to CBT1's feedback. Looking from the perspective of new casual Mapler without KMS 2/ CMS 2 experience, going to lvl 50 within a day would feel like overkill but not impossible if I acted like hardcore player, participated in mini games every time the message popped up on my screen and spent Merets on automated AFK activities.

    In regards to CBT1, I had a feeling that nothing significant or worth mentioning was done to improve bad gear scaling, linear gear progression and leveling curve so far. World Quests were treated like an addition or served as level gap fillers overshadowed by Epic Storyline's experience gain, they didn't change a lot but I enjoyed them as they felt like natural progression through exploration. Enemies served little to no challenge and didn't offer any experience inside dungeons. High experience rate from main quest along with fast gear progression deemed any low level content meaningless.

    The main plotline is still a mandatory, the most feasible chore thanks to APs and SPs, it also provides too much experience to even think about skipping it completely. I think that high emphasis on quest progression generated a solid disproportion between Epic Storyline and other in-game features, deeming them not good enough to compare in the manner of gained experience. I like how game provides different methods of leveling, that's a nice feat for someone who doesn't want to repeat the same road to the current end-game content on every alt character. However I think that I'd enjoy my adventure even more if experience rate for all available features (which offer any experience) was adjusted proportionally and active gameplay was incentivized by developers more than AFK activities. Just consider making all aspects of game meaningful in regards to experience gain and reasonable to explore.
    Variety of methods to get experience:
    • mini games (over 4m experience at level 50 + additional % experience rate provided by each piece of MC Kay's accessories, which are obtainable for MC Coins in Queenstown)
    • daily gathering (including your home, anyone else's house, gathering nodes spread on maps until you unlock Berg Island and Alkimi Island)
    • Arcade games (over 1m experience per each round of Teraspring Farm and even more when dodging Simian Sea's monkeys as long as possible)
    • Main Storyline quests (the last quest from storyline offered ca. 5.5m experience)
    • music performance (including AFK mode with few 30min auto-performance vouchers obtained via quests)
    • fishing (including AFK mode with few 30min auto-fishing vouchers received through quests)
    • Dungeon runs (including Cathy Mart Part Time Job special dungeon daily since level 1)
    • exploration (entering new location for the first time)
    • killing field bosses and other monsters on map
    • 2 levels per day through furnishing mode
    • opening treasure chests
    • Experience Booster item
    • daily guild quest
    • Maple Guide quests
    • exploration goals
    • daily crafting
    • World Quests
    • Guild buffs

    From level 50 repertoire additionally:
    • Allicari Daily Quests from Queenstown and access to Performer's Tip Pot (+50% performance experience gain up to 5 party members within 3m, nice exp boost for ensemble) for 50 Rue
    • Daily Missions (18 tasks that provide over 26m experience upon completing all of them + bonus experience via Experience Potions dropped from reward boxes)
    • Weekly guild quest
    • Pet Taming
    DanDK
  • JointJoint
    Maplestory 2 Rep: 3,515
    Posts: 144
    Member
    TsuyoiOuji wrote: »
    Progression content only starts at lvl 50, so there is no reason to spend 2 weeks getting there, lmao.

    Give us KMS2 exp, no nerfs. If anything make us level even faster because going through the epic quests with multiple alts is a pain in the ass.

    The thing is they changed this to a "nerf" bc the majority of players wanted( not me) the long grind to lvl 50 because it helps fullfill there nostalgic memories of MS1 had. I think for some reason the players thought this would be the solution to a pre-bb GMS1 server so they rooted for a long grind in early levels which pertains hardly any real content in it. Either the game needs to make getting to lvl 50 less of a chore and add in some new ways of progression through out those levels or just let us level up real quick so we can get to 50 and start our real adventure. I agree that this game will get so redundant when it comes to making alts. I know for a fact Ill probably be just playing one main class due to this reason alone. I don't want to have to spend a week on each of my chars in order to reach the mid game progression levels. There should be a much shorter route to reach the real game after you completed the quest line at least once. Have the epic quests "forced" on a player is just a chore. Yes, you don't have to do these quests at all but it's much slower if you do not do those quests. Plus having all those extra AP points given to you will be at loss. They need to add more ways to gain AP points or just remove that reward for doing those quests all together. That can at least remove the "force" factor on those epic quests.
  • AjaeAjae
    Maplestory 2 Rep: 1,745
    Posts: 45
    Member
    Leveling... Oof, I disliked a lot the leveling process in cbt2, i did play in cbt1 and i thought it was perfect, it was a straight line from start to finish, no hassle, no pressure or unnecessary rushing. The reasons i disliked leveling in Cbt2, And my concerns for Official release if they keep the cbt2 leveling is the following: 1. The leveling stop gaps. The reason i hated this is for the fact that the maplers that wanted to rush endgame, and be the first clears, are now pressured and hassled even more to hit 50 with those leveling gaps. Trust me, its annoying as hell having to stop the quest line to be forced into doing other activities that gave terrible rewards. I would be a lot happier if the leveling gaps were removed, but give more exp to world quests, monsters, and the dungeons, i felt the mini games gave a good amount of exp. 2. Im calling out those that wish for harder leveling, as many other kms2 experienced players have said and stated, the leveling curve after 60 or 70 in kms2 is insane, in which i want to say i myself, would not want to ever level alts, if both pre 50 and after 60 or 70 will be hell grinds, or time wasters. Which will then screw up the current weekly dungeon 30/30 system. 3. For those also saying they dont want to be forced to level fast, you're not being forced to level fast, as others have said if you do your casual exploration / terrible exp world quests and such, you level at your own pace and have to story catch up (cause of skill points and attribute points, which i will say does suck, but i got over it) or do a couple of the casual stuff as you're doing the story. 4. Is if level gaps stay, how will you improve on the leveling gap alternatives, <by this i mean music takes too long for those rushing to 50 to use, since the exp ratio to song time would be too slow or increase the time to get to 50. The "abuse" of the housing / furnishing system will now cost meso, but will the exp get reduced, will it be higher / stay the same? Will we be forced to do the horrendous world quests, since they don't exactly follow the main quest ( have to go a map or 2 over sometimes). Can't farm monsters since the exp from them are incredibly bad unless in a max party, which even then i think is still too low of exp. The dungeons which will then lower the rewards at the higher levels since you'll be capped for the day but also give mediocre exp and waste a LOT of time since the hp of bosses are too high at lower levels, with the bad damage scaling. Mini games, i guess could use an exp buff but i thought they were alright.

    this may not flow, for the reason that i initially made this 1 huge comment, and realized i had to split it since it was in the wrong topic
    thanks and have fun mapling
This discussion has been closed.