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Compensate players who had advanced tiers of gems.

ÄrtÄrt
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edited 1:40PM April 22, 2019 in General Chat
It took extreme effort for many players to get their gems to the point they are now, if you are going through with these extreme changes compensate them somehow.
Many people complained relentlessly how hard it is to upgrade but didnt bother to even try for months while saving dust. Now that everyone commited enough will quickly get maxed set it's only fair that effort of many who actually used your old systems counts for something.

It will take 2weeks~ to max whole set now starting from nothing, which undermines months of effort. Which means that these changes are not simple improvements but fundamentally change entire system, making it quite frankly complete joke. Either rethink your numbers and make much needed adjustements or compensate people who actually bothered with it. As it stands all those months count for nothing and new system will be completely dead outside of first couple weeks, since after that everyone will be maxed, most will be maxed on first day including me.

Comments

  • ArurauneAruraune
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    I got advanced tiers of gems and don't want a compensation. That'd be far worse considering the issue gem upgrading will be easier. I don't want to be given gem dust to upgrade alt's or future gems for even less effort.
    stusaderKofumi
  • PeepPeep
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    edited 10:07PM April 7, 2019
    Effort? What are you even talking about? Winning the lottery doesn't take effort. How entitled can you be?

    First off MMOs change over time. Just because you decided to grind hard early on does not mean you should be compensated if things are made easier later on.
    This happens all the time in MMOs. In the case of MS2, they are addressing issues that already exist in the game so having things drastically change over a short period of time is expected (it was also mentioned in project leaf that they would be addressed). In the future I expect that they will make changes in advance or not too long after the new patch arrives so people don't have to go through this again. You should always expect older content to become easier though as new content is on the horizon. There's higher tiers for gems that will be coming eventually and various other content that we will need to grind for.

    Right now the GMS2 team is taking the game in a different direction compared to KMS2. They're taking the limited to no rng approach while keeping a time gate in the game. There are loads of people I know who are very happy to see these changes. While they weren't super hardcore, the fact of the matter is people WILL be coming back especially with new content around the corner. People should be happy that this is helping the population of the game rather than being selfish and only thinking about themselves.

    ArurauneDefraglifeGarlicBreadSylqtFleinstusaderLiliacPkmdzHumorKofumi
  • HaliHali
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    edited 12:17AM April 8, 2019
    You are seeing this from negative kind of way, consider what they are doing as a way of giving you a lot more freedom of gearing up other characters you would of had interest in.
  • OlujiwanOlujiwan
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    Peep wrote: »
    Effort? What are you even talking about? Winning the lottery doesn't take effort. How entitled can you be?

    First off MMOs change over time. Just because you decided to grind hard early on does not mean you should be compensated if things are made easier later on.
    This happens all the time in MMOs. In the case of MS2, they are addressing issues that already exist in the game so having things drastically change over a short period of time is expected (it was also mentioned in project leaf that they would be addressed). In the future I expect that they will make changes in advance or not too long after the new patch arrives so people don't have to go through this again. You should always expect older content to become easier though as new content is on the horizon. There's higher tiers for gems that will be coming eventually and various other content that we will need to grind for.

    Right now the GMS2 team is taking the game in a different direction compared to KMS2. They're taking the limited to no rng approach while keeping a time gate in the game. There are loads of people I know who are very happy to see these changes. While they weren't super hardcore, the fact of the matter is people WILL be coming back especially with new content around the corner. People should be happy that this is helping the population of the game rather than being selfish and only thinking about themselves.

    This pretty much sums up what I think about it.
  • ÄrtÄrt
    Maplestory 2 Rep: 1,370
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    edited 10:49AM April 8, 2019
    Peep wrote: »
    Effort? What are you even talking about? Winning the lottery doesn't take effort. How entitled can you be?

    First off MMOs change over time. Just because you decided to grind hard early on does not mean you should be compensated if things are made easier later on.
    This happens all the time in MMOs. In the case of MS2, they are addressing issues that already exist in the game so having things drastically change over a short period of time is expected (it was also mentioned in project leaf that they would be addressed). In the future I expect that they will make changes in advance or not too long after the new patch arrives so people don't have to go through this again. You should always expect older content to become easier though as new content is on the horizon. There's higher tiers for gems that will be coming eventually and various other content that we will need to grind for.

    Right now the GMS2 team is taking the game in a different direction compared to KMS2. They're taking the limited to no rng approach while keeping a time gate in the game. There are loads of people I know who are very happy to see these changes. While they weren't super hardcore, the fact of the matter is people WILL be coming back especially with new content around the corner. People should be happy that this is helping the population of the game rather than being selfish and only thinking about themselves.

    I'm talking about effort, that's what I'm talking about. Effort of grinding for months and using systems that were put in place in order to progress something. Not sitting on forum crying because upgrade system is evil and i failed twice, then not even trying and only hording dust while complaining daily.

    I did not made all gems tier 7+ because I won lottery, I made all of them tier 7+ because i kept on trying and eventually got successfull upgrade after mountain of fails, all the way to tier 7+ on everything over and over and over again.

    You don't have a slightest clue what enormous grind that was if you have audacity to come here and ask "effort? what effort? u entitled bro ?"

    When they made legendary items tradeable I did not say anything, because I'm perfectly aware that MMOs change over time. When they made rerolling of legendary items cheap I did not say anything because I'm perfectly aware that MMOs change over time. For example my chest alone cost me more than 80m just to finally get boss on it, oh well gold can be made back. These changes however, these changes are FAR too severe to go live in current form, if they go through with them anyway they should compensate most dedicated of players, because thats who has high level gemstones currently.

    They absolutely overkilled the problem, instead of removing rng they removed progression together with rng. Most people who will start saving now and have couple alts will max their set on first day. If you think that's good, then you can sit in queenstown playing music next day. That's about all that is left to do in this game, it will be like that for quite a while aswell because nothing else replaces gemstone grind any time soon.
  • DefraglifeDefraglife
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    Your bold statement is the meaning of winning the lottery. And you should be glad they are making things better for everyone. Not sure if you seen what KMS2 has next to upgrade after gems. With the next thing coming around the corner that will eclipse gems this change puts everyone on an even playing field. That's just how all games turn out in the end.
  • HaliHali
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    You know there actually is some effort involved for anyone that currently has 6+ tier 10 gems, does anyone think they just only cap B4's on one character to get those gems?
  • PeepPeep
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    Ärt wrote: »
    I did not made all gems tier 7+ because I won lottery, I made all of them tier 7+ because i kept on trying and eventually got successfull upgrade after mountain of fails, all the way to tier 7+ on everything over and over and over again.

    You think people who win the lottery win with 1 ticket? No. Usually never. They generally keep buying tickets until they win. You either get lucky and win or you lose. That's how the lottery works. You made all your gems t7+ because you won the lottery. You passed that low non existant % chance that many others have continued to fail time and time again. Plain and simple.

    You want to talk about effort as if you actually went through a struggle. Please spare me the details. I know exactly what it takes to get a decent amount of t10 gems on your character if you were playing at launch and let me tell you right now it takes almost no effort at all. Just luck.

    Most people who have more than 1 T10 gem now have been identifying keys since launch on all their alts. They advertise that they want to do a trade so that 1 key becomes 4 runs total. If you have at least 8-10 alts you're going to be getting around 1-2 B4 keys per week in most cases esp if you decide to reveal 2 per toon. This is all made affordable through get rich dailies which don't even take 5 mins to do per character. You can buy the keys on your main off the market to give to alts if you don't want to farm chests. You should also have more than enough money running dungeons to buy B4 key runs too if necessary every now and then. All this can be done but someone who's not even hardcore. Just someone who plays the game normally.

    If you think what is listed above is grind then you really haven't seen actual grind. There are people I know of who have been buying meso and capping out all alts for months and still do not have full T10 gems. That's how bad the rng is.
    Defraglife
  • ÄrtÄrt
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    edited 4:11PM April 8, 2019
    Hali wrote: »
    You know there actually is some effort involved for anyone that currently has 6+ tier 10 gems, does anyone think they just only cap B4's on one character to get those gems?

    They will be trying to downplay it in any way possible because it's in their interest currently, on the other hand they arent willing to do something as "effortless" as this themselves, because it's less effort to simply complain till system gets changed. Some dummy even created thread attempting to ridicule this one even tho hes getting something he never earned and definitely doesnt deserve for basically free and it's all acomplished by crying how hard it was for him.

    Im not saying some changes werent needed they definitely were. But this is like killing a fly with howitzer.


    To the 2 Muppets:

    Here you have lottery winning odds from google :

    The chance of winning the National Lottery jackpot is 1 in 45,057,474, according to the Lotto website, while there is a 1 in 7,509,579 chance of getting five numbers plus the bonus ball. To win the Euromillions jackpot there is a one in 1 in 139,838,160 of all your numbers being drawn.

    Here you have odds of upgrading gemstones:

    25% 22% 19% 16% 14% 12% 10% 9% 8%

    See the difference ? Theres a guy on my server with 6 or 7 maxed gems, he didnt just get lucky he worked to get that. He also did more B4 than anybody else I know. It's almost like theres some kind of corelation between time effort and gold you put into it and results you end up with. But It can be explained as "he got lucky and won lottery" huh. Just like effort of farming 200,500k,1m treva for dust. Just like doing dungeons on 10 alts every week for gem boxes, even before ff removal was effortless. I combined all of those to get to where I'm at, if its so easy then do it yourself.

    It's quite comical that something this obvious needs to even be debated, just because couple people wants to cap their gems.
  • GarlicBreadGarlicBread
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    just a question, don't get offended but if someone happen to success first try all the way to max gem is that still alot of effort? cause some have and we don't know how many, still possible though.
  • LuminaEdgeLuminaEdge
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    You got your compensation when you were able to access higher raids before anyone else. You got it when you were able to help your guild sell runs before anyone else. You were compensated when people buddied you after dungeon runs because your stats were good enough that people wanted to bring you along.

    You got your compensation when you didn't get bored of the game and quit because your RNG wasnt so bad it wouldn't let you access more content reliably. You got it everytime you got to do a dungeon without needing to buy carries unless you didn't feel like it.

    You're doing JUST fine buddy. Just fine.
    Defraglife
  • IllIIlIllIIl
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    LuminaEdge wrote: »
    You were compensated when people buddied you after dungeon runs because your stats were good enough

    People put up many nonsensical barriers to entry but let me tell you this: stats ain't one of them.
  • ÄrtÄrt
    Maplestory 2 Rep: 1,370
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    edited 3:31PM April 8, 2019
    just a question, don't get offended but if someone happen to success first try all the way to max gem is that still alot of effort? cause some have and we don't know how many, still possible though.

    Id like to see someone who did that on multiple gems and touch him, just for that luck to fall upon me. I cerainly never managed to do that, let me know if you find him.

    LuminaEdge wrote: »
    You got your compensation when you were able to access higher raids before anyone else. You got it when you were able to help your guild sell runs before anyone else. You were compensated when people buddied you after dungeon runs because your stats were good enough that people wanted to bring you along.

    You got your compensation when you didn't get bored of the game and quit because your RNG wasnt so bad it wouldn't let you access more content reliably. You got it everytime you got to do a dungeon without needing to buy carries unless you didn't feel like it.

    You're doing JUST fine buddy. Just fine.

    I started doing raids late, had full +15 epic set for a long time. I never sold a single run, outside of b4. Only bad people buddied me, hoping ill carry them and it never benefited me.

    My rng was horrible, my post about failing endless amount of times on epic weapon should still be somewhere here. Only carries I bough were for brand new characters, just to get larger amount of weapon boxes as a head start and i dont see point in buying runs on main regardless of stats. In most cpaps I see for example theres at least couple people who are getting carried without doing much and without paying for it, so ya why bother regardless.


    The way I see it these changes should absolutely not go live in current state and i can go in details about why but i know people who want easy gems are going to hate it, if they do it anyway at least compensate players who put in the effort. Because those players are your most loyal and devoted ones. In future take more careful and thoughtful aproach to costs and once you decide on something stick to it, because theres hardly point in bothering with anything that will come out in future if it will get dumbed down this much later even before more than couple people maxes it.
    Hali
  • PeepPeep
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    edited 11:00PM April 8, 2019
    Ärt wrote: »
    snip

    I can't believe you completely missed the point. Instead you try to compare 2 things that require luck and say "I worked harder for this one". I could easily say that if I bought 10k lotto tickets I'd have a much better chance at winning. This is something that actually requires effort as people need to work IRL for their money. You don't "work" for your money in game. You play and enjoy it and earn money as a result based on the rewards given and if you don't enjoy it, it might be time to consider quitting at least till new content hits.

    The point you seemed to miss is that both require luck. Even if you get to the end destination slower you are still "lucky" for passing that upgrade. Why in the world would you expect to be compensated for something that requires luck? I could easily make a thread saying the same thing as yours but state that I 1 tapped everything and because I'm ahead of people, I should be compensated now that things are becoming easier. Do you expect Nexon to investigate who took longer to get their gems to t10, who 1 tapped and who had to use more dust to reach t10 just so they can properly compensate people?

    The only time people should ever been compensated for something is if there is an error or mistake on Nexon's side that resulted in loss of goods or time. In this case, there is none of that. The only thing I see here is someone who decided to spend more time trying to circumvent rng and is ahead as a result now wanting to be compensated because things are being made easier. What a joke.

    Defraglife
  • ÄrtÄrt
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    edited 3:49AM April 9, 2019
    Peep wrote: »
    Ärt wrote: »
    snip

    I can't believe you completely missed the point. Instead you try to compare 2 things that require luck and say "I worked harder for this one". I could easily say that if I bought 10k lotto tickets I'd have a much better chance at winning. This is something that actually requires effort as people need to work IRL for their money. You don't "work" for your money in game. You play and enjoy it and earn money as a result based on the rewards given and if you don't enjoy it, it might be time to consider quitting at least till new content hits.

    The point you seemed to miss is that both require luck. Even if you get to the end destination slower you are still "lucky" for passing that upgrade. Why in the world would you expect to be compensated for something that requires luck? I could easily make a thread saying the same thing as yours but state that I 1 tapped everything and because I'm ahead of people, I should be compensated now that things are becoming easier. Do you expect Nexon to investigate who took longer to get their gems to t10, who 1 tapped and who had to use more dust to reach t10 just so they can properly compensate people?

    The only time people should ever been compensated for something is if there is an error or mistake on Nexon's side that resulted in loss of goods or time. In this case, there is none of that. The only thing I see here is someone who decided to spend more time trying to circumvent rng and is ahead as a result now wanting to be compensated because things are being made easier. What a joke.

    The point you seem to miss is that anybody could do what I and many others did if they worked their ass off. You make luck almost non factor by continually trying, statistically speaking you are bound to finally succeed even if you failed 20 times on that specific upgrade. Then 20 times on the next one. I did not make my gems high level by getting lucky and yes someone out there maybe did 1 or 2, but thats irrelevant since that 0.00001% of ppl didnt made full set like that. Quite frankly I dont care if they would get compensation or not, but you really seem to care. You sit here grasping at straws, partially because you wont receive that compensation even tho you are already getting free cap out of gems. That's the bizzare part.

    There is mistake about to be made. They arent just removing rng of gemstones, they are removing progression of them all together. You are going to max your gems on first day and you know that.

    The only thing I see here is someone who is worried Nexon might realize what mistake it was and not give you your free cap out of gemstones. That's the only thing you really care about at this point which is why you are grabbing anything you can. You don't care about new players like you tried to make it look. New players didnt need amazing gems to clear anything even before ff removal, I certainly didnt and now its so much easier without ff. You also certainly don't seem to care about any kind of progression or what it does to difficulty of this game. A joke indeed.

    If you decide to continue pls include screenshot of your gems, just so it's clear where exactly you stand in this one and determine if you know what effort actually is.


  • GarlicBreadGarlicBread
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    biggest mistake they made was listen to the people in cbt1/2 that cried for a hard game, which shouldve never been the case. cbt was literally a nice chill fun game nothing extreme or hard just fun. although they are fixing things I still think it's abit on the late side.
  • ÄrtÄrt
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    edited 6:19AM April 9, 2019
    I didnt play during cbt but if this game was made harder then I can't imagine how easy it used to be. Even now people are doing 2 man hcmoc, something designed for 10 man. I'd say that's easy enough, no point in making it easier unless goal is to make it solo. Actually I already saw rb soloing normal moc quite a while back.

    Personally I already play less due to this about to be change, simply because theres nothing to do anymore. I guess you can chill in queenstown playing music, but i'd rather play new releases instead of that. You are going to complete entire system on your first day/first week/first 2 weeks depending how much you prepare, then you will chill, then you will stop logging in for couple months till new update comes. Theres very little content in this game currently, mostly just repetition of same already very easy time gated things, which can easily be completed by leg +10 with decent stats. Going for +15 completely overkills everything.

    Quite frankly if you want to chill, just go out and chill with your real life friends. In the long run, it's better for you.

  • SylqtSylqt
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    Compensated for what? Playing the game?

    lol
    Defraglife
  • PeepPeep
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    edited 7:03AM April 9, 2019
    You're incredibly dense. The fact you think playing a video game means working your arse off is beyond me. I don't think you've ever had a day job. Do you even know the definition of luck? I don't think you do because you keep re-iterating the point that you did not achieve what you did through luck when in order to pass the upgrades you need to be lucky.
    Ärt wrote: »
    The only thing I see here is someone who is worried Nexon might realize what mistake it was and not give you your free cap out of gemstones. That's the only thing you really care about at this point which is why you are grabbing anything you can. You don't care about new players like you tried to make it look. New players didnt need amazing gems to clear anything even before ff removal, I certainly didnt and now its so much easier without ff. You also certainly don't seem to care about any kind of progression or what it does to difficulty of this game. A joke indeed.

    Nice assumption. You don't even know my entire stance on this update other than that I am for it yet you go ahead and assume. It was you, not me who made this thread asking for compensation for something that requires luck. That is the true joke. If I didn't care about new or current players I'd be in your position making this thread because I'd be thinking selfishly rather than thinking about what the majority of the players want. You my friend are a minority.

    Nexon has opted for time gated progression with minimal rng compared to the KMS2 version which is p2w central. As for difficulty. The only things that were ever difficult In this game was DD (learning the stages rather than cheating with video guides), Rumble when it first came out, 5 mans with lower enchants and raids with +15 epics first week. There is nothing else that I would describe as difficult (besides pvp maybe which does need balancing btw).
    Ärt wrote: »
    There is mistake about to be made. They arent just removing rng of gemstones, they are removing progression of them all together. You are going to max your gems on first day and you know that.

    Are players not progressing towards it daily now? If they were to release the update today you'd still be time gated and have to progress towards it regardless. It's no different. It's just time gated progression without rng.

    Is this update perhaps too good? Yeah, you could say that. I didn't expect it to be this good and if they were going to increase the dust costs a lot so the end goal takes longer I wouldn't mind either. I do think they should keep the 100% chance though as players main concern with gemstones was always the horrible rng and lack of resources.

    I'm going to leave it at that. We'll just have to agree to disagree. I look forward to whatever Nexon decides to do as long as it's in the best interest for this game and it's community. If they decide to make changes to the current proposed changes then that's fine also.
  • ÄrtÄrt
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    edited 7:51AM April 9, 2019
    You're incredibly dense. The fact you think playing a video game means working your arse off is beyond me. I don't think you've ever had a day job. Do you even know the definition of luck? I don't think you do because you keep re-iterating the point that you did not achieve what you did through luck when in order to pass the upgrades you need to be lucky.

    Systems that were put in place required that in order to progress far within that system. If you cant grasp meaning of it, theres not much I can do for you. What you needed to do in order to progress was repetition, if you want to tell someone who failed 30 times a row just to pass on 31'th time that he got lucky just because technically that 31 still required him to get lucky, go on and do it. Hed probably slap you for being that ridiculous. Consider whole series before determining if in grand scheme of things he actually got lucky with that particular upgrade. I'd say its pretty lucky to do it withing first couple tries, that's about it.

    Nice assumption. You don't even know my entire stance on this update other than that I am for it yet you go ahead and assume. It was you, not me who made this thread asking for compensation for something that requires luck. That is the true joke. If I didn't care about new or current players I'd be in your position making this thread because I'd be thinking selfishly rather than thinking about what the majority of the players want. You my friend are a minority.

    Nexon has opted for time gated progression with minimal rng compared to the KMS2 version which is p2w central. As for difficulty. The only things that were ever difficult In this game was DD (learning the stages rather than cheating with video guides), Rumble when it first came out, 5 mans with lower enchants and raids with +15 epics first week. There is nothing else that I would describe as difficult (besides pvp maybe which does need balancing btw).

    You know what they say, if it walks like a duck and it quacks like a duck. The true joke is that you still don't understand that it hardly really requires luck, it requires whole truck of dust and getting that required effort. If you had gm console and spawned 1 mil of each dust, youd make everything tier 10 with this current system. Did that happen because you got lucky or because you forced rng to cooperate with huge amount of tries. Read up about statistics and how that works. Majority of players want free stuff without thinking about greater good of the game. For you this new player thing was just another straw, once again in no way new players require full set of great gems to clear stuff especially now without ff. Similarly they could give away +15 leg weapon, nobody needs that either even +10 is overkill, but everyone would be very happy to get it.

    Exactly, nothing is difficult which is why giving everyone everything they ask for isnt required. Gemstones were system that gave players who were willing to invest enough time money and effort some additional power, which wasnt needed but its something they worked on and were happy to finally accomplish after months of attempts and that was great.

    Are players not progressing towards it daily now? If they were to release the update today you'd still be time gated and have to progress towards it regardless. It's no different. It's just time gated progression without rng.

    Is this update perhaps too good? Yeah, you could say that. I didn't expect it to be this good and if they were going to increase the dust costs a lot so the end goal takes longer I wouldn't mind either. I do think they should keep the 100% chance though as players main concern with gemstones was always the horrible rng and lack of resources.

    I'm going to leave it at that. We'll just have to agree to disagree. I look forward to whatever Nexon decides to do as long as it's in the best interest for this game and it's community. If they decide to make changes to the current proposed changes then that's fine also.

    Yes this is the part where we again go into definitions of words. Technically its progression, practically it isn't. Similarly having to kill 20 enemies on igloo hill for 1 tier 10 gemstone would also be progression, but not really. If they released update today and even made it drop different types of dust + gemstones to the one we have today so everyone starts at 0, youd still complete it in 2 weeks if your account was full of alts. Even that would be very easy, what we will get however are people like you and you know it damn well, maxing their gems on first day. Because you didnt bother with it and saved dust while complaining, which is why you dont know how much effort it required.

    Fact that you didnt post screenshots of your gemstones here like I asked for, to determing how much effort you put into it tells me everything i needed to know.

This discussion has been closed.