Check out the patch notes for the v19 Winter Mischief update here: http://maplestory2.nexon.net/en/news/article/55464/winter-mischief-v19

RE: Mannequin Exploit

Comments

  • BaronLövatBaronLövat
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 2,820
    Posts: 141
    Member
    edited 4:52AM January 9, 2019
    The point of a permanent ban in a free game, is to punish the player via terminating the account and demonstrating to the fullest degree that you will not get* ahead by cheating. The best way to do that, is to fully set them behind. And the best way to do that is precisely what I advocate for, full termination of the account, indefinitely.

    I have no problem with them continuing to play the game, but only so long as they have zero benefit from the account they exploited on.
    BabouMirralChanSnowyBugHowlyeFantasykittenEinoArurauneUltralanNovuhzILakeand 2 others.
  • WittlePlushyWittlePlushy
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 940
    Posts: 85
    Member
    edited 9:18AM January 9, 2019
    Just remove all their gear and meso forcing them to start over. That way the people who said they benefited too much are happy, and the people who say we can't perma ban them are happy. Let them keep things that couldn't be earned illegitimately i.e. the cash shop items/looks/names/prestige ranks but have their account marked so other players can see if they continue using it, that way the players can actively choose if they wanna interact with the cheater or not since we find out anyway. Not only will this force them to start over and experience the rng they loved to exploit around but it will force them to interact with the people who are trying to gear up legitimately so they can learn humility if they don't rage quit enhancing an epic to +15 again or getting another epic pet. Or better yet rig the Rng against them so they never succeed an enchant again without telling them and have it take effect the minute they try enchanting something; I know I'd hate that more than a permaban.

    TL:DR There are plenty of creative ways to punish people but you guys always say permaban so let's spice in it up.
  • WiLBoYWiLBoY
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 2,560
    Posts: 373
    Member
    Might as well ban them for three months. Honestly it makes no difference if the punishment is severe enough. Think about it. Would you still play if you lost everything even if you abused it? Probably not
  • MiehMieh
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 1,230
    Posts: 43
    Member
    WiLBoY wrote: »
    Might as well ban them for three months. Honestly it makes no difference if the punishment is severe enough. Think about it. Would you still play if you lost everything even if you abused it? Probably not

    It highly depends on how much they like the game and how much they care about being "the top players". If they cheated their way to the top ranks, I don't know about you, but I think some if not most will just start over... just like they should.
  • VisualFxxVisualFxx
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 1,605
    Posts: 111
    Member
    Honestly a ban or complete account strip so they can retain levels would work just the same as @WiLBoy mentioned. After losing all that even through exploitation you'd probably just stop playing overall considering obviously not all of it was exploited and they still had to put hours of work in to get the items needed on each alt, so you'd figure they would just probably stop playing overall either way they decide to handle this as long as it goes one of these two methods.
  • AnamiAnami
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 1,590
    Posts: 81
    Member
    This will go one of two ways.
    The punishment is severe, swift and just leading to a month or permanent ban for exploiters with exploited gear revoked, possibly loss of onyx and meso as well. This would cause many of the punished players to throw a fit and leave the game, however word of this would spread fairly quickly and possibly lead to old players who left because of botters and cheaters getting away with exploits and hacks to come back and take Nexon's promises more seriously.

    or

    The punishment is a joke, a wrist slap. Exploited players get banned for a bit of time but not enough to set them behind compared to the level of exploiting they did. Word of this will indefinitely spread and most players who care about a positive or decent MMO experience(not you Kiritos out there) will quit the game or cease spending merets and play much less. Cheaters of all sorts will be attracted to the game and know they can get away with breaking the game and getting ahead through hacks and exploits.
    VisualFxx
  • VisualFxxVisualFxx
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 1,605
    Posts: 111
    Member
    Anami wrote: »
    This will go one of two ways.
    The punishment is severe, swift and just leading to a month or permanent ban for exploiters with exploited gear revoked, possibly loss of onyx and meso as well. This would cause many of the punished players to throw a fit and leave the game, however word of this would spread fairly quickly and possibly lead to old players who left because of botters and cheaters getting away with exploits and hacks to come back and take Nexon's promises more seriously.

    or

    The punishment is a joke, a wrist slap. Exploited players get banned for a bit of time but not enough to set them behind compared to the level of exploiting they did. Word of this will indefinitely spread and most players who care about a positive or decent MMO experience(not you Kiritos out there) will quit the game or cease spending merets and play much less. Cheaters of all sorts will be attracted to the game and know they can get away with breaking the game and getting ahead through hacks and exploits.

    This is 100% accurate, almost no middle ground for it either. The guild I'm in and the one in alliance with us on discord have vouched to just dismantle and quit if this ends up a big joke we've all grown quite tired of the game regardless of this situation overall. So that'll be -140 accounts (thats max) some people will still not quit obviously can't expect everyone to actually follow suit but it'll still be a large majority of us. With the current steam charts losing another 100 people from just this situation probably isn't the best for the state of the game especially during this time. People will keep saying "hAhA StEaM cHaRtS" can't wait til those numbers hit <500 and people still try using that excuse as if people on steam are quitting the game for different reasons than those who use launcher.
    SnowyBug
  • UltralanUltralan
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 570
    Posts: 24
    Member
    All I see are a bunch of whiners who didn't utilise the trick and are just salty they've missed their chance because the mannequin has been disabled.

    Those of you who are threatening to quit, how many are even at the point where this affects you? Most of the playerbase plays in such a casual manner that they wouldn't even have grinded out on their alts and used the mannequin even if it was still available in front of them. Seems like people are just calling it quits for the heck of it because everybody else is.

    As if this incident had such a massive influence that tilted you from happily playing to quit. If you really were going to quit it would have been from all the built-up frustrations that you've gone through the past few weeks, perhaps getting burned out from doing 60 dungeons per week or daily chores every day.

    The reality is that nothing significant will come out of this. Don't expect a massive banwave to happen because there are over hundreds of accounts that have done the exploit based on just the East server alone. People are going to leave the game regardless because an MMO such as this has no replay value once you're at the endgame aside from social activities. It's just funny seeing how Nexon's way of handling this incident will be the scapegoat of players quitting the game.
    Mieh
  • KiymoriKiymori
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 2,250
    Posts: 335
    Member
    edited 12:21PM January 9, 2019
    The point of a permanent ban in a free game, is to punish the player via terminating the account and demonstrating to the fullest degree that you will not get* ahead by cheating. The best way to do that, is to fully set them behind. And the best way to do that is precisely what I advocate for, full termination of the account, indefinitely.

    I have no problem with them continuing to play the game, but only so long as they have zero benefit from the account they exploited on.

    I partially agree with you. However the next problem created for Nexon becomes is giving a perma ban the best move from a business stand point? The player base is constantly dwindling further and further. And whether they perma ban players or not, they still stand to lose some players from both sides of the coin. They are going to lose the players they perma ban plus possibly their friends, or they lose some angry players who want to see a perma ban and possibly their friends. And if it is indeed the top guilds who have exploited this the most(basing this purely on speculation and rumors), those players tend to be the ones that contribute more often financially to the game, does Nexon want potentially lose that chunk of money.

    With the player base as small as it's getting they are now faced with the tough decision of doing what is best for the company or doing what is best for what some players think is best. Given Nexon's history and how most business's tend to prioritize profit, I am having my doubts perma bans will happen on a massive scale. If anything, they might perma ban a few players just to appease some players and just temp ban the rest OR even just give a warning to the rest.

    The thing is though, unless Nexon wants to publicly broadcast who they banned, there really will be no way of a random player knowing who exploited and who didn't anyway. Unless you know that they did personally and have proof. Or they just come forward and say 'yah I exploited'. Assuming Nexon chooses not to disclose names (which given they haven't done so even with the bot crisis), the really only option after that would be to move on with our Maple lives.
    SnowyBug
  • facefacefaceface
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 1,720
    Posts: 250
    Member
    edited 2:08PM January 9, 2019
    Why y’all white knights always argue whether it affects individual players directly. It has nothing to do with that, but more of what kind of punishment and attitude should be needed for people that intentionally breaks the tos. The truth is nothing in the form of cheating and bots directly affects players besides the potential of inflation. Now does that mean we should just ignore cheaters? Don’t think so. The real question is do legit players want to play with a bunch of cheaters, and that’s where the division comes. And while Nexon isn’t providing hard proof, but players aren’t stupid. There are obvious players that utilize this cheat and truth is nexon doesn’t have to provide hard proof for us to infer if a player is guilty or not. Yea there will be false positives but with the high amount of players using exploit the percentage of false positives from average players I would assume to be fairly low. Remember this isn’t some crazy lawsuit in real life, this is a game, players don’t need some hard proof to leave.
    AnamiBabouILake
  • KiymoriKiymori
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 2,250
    Posts: 335
    Member
    faceface wrote: »
    Why y’all white knights always argue whether it affects individual players directly. It has nothing to do with that, but more of what kind of punishment and attitude should be needed for people that intentionally breaks the tos. The truth is nothing in the form of cheating and bots directly affects players besides the potential of inflation. Now does that mean we should just ignore cheaters? Don’t think so. The real question is do legit players want to play with a bunch of cheaters, and that’s where the division comes. And while Nexon isn’t providing hard proof, but players aren’t stupid. There are obvious players that utilize this cheat and truth is nexon doesn’t have to provide hard proof for us to infer if a player is guilty or not. Yea there will be false positives but with the high amount of players using exploit the percentage of false positives from average players I would assume to be fairly low. Remember this isn’t some crazy lawsuit in real life, this is a game, players don’t need some hard proof to leave.

    I think you might be misunderstanding something here. A majority of the players who have posted on this forum are in favor of some form of discipline, the only area where the disagreement seems to lie is the severity of the punishment. Personally I believe that is Nexons job to decide and not ours. Now as for next portion of your post, if it was in response to me, I was not talking about proof of using the exploit, as Nexon can easily see look at the logs, but talking about proof of the banning or disciplining those involved(if that wasn't in response to me disregard this portion as a personal response to you). the only reason I mentioned it was because there have been people stating 'they would leave if action is not taken', but obviously in different words.

    Now as far as you saying there are 'obvious players that utilize this cheat', there really is no way for a random player to know this unless they actually know the player personally or have some kind of way of visually seeing it happen. If this cheat was as 'obvious' as you are saying it is, I believe it would have been MUCH more wide spread, except it was an exploit present in other versions of the game and only the people who knew about it, kept it low key.While the others just knew there was a method that existed, but no knowledge of how to perform it.

    Now as far as legit players not wanting to play with cheaters, I agree with you and I am sure there are those who would much rather quit over something like this, rather than continue to play the game. However, for me, finding out about something like this doesn't make me feel any different about the game at it's core, I still login, do my dailies, farm and log off, someone choosing to take advantage of flawed programming in this way isn't going to stop me from progressing, the only thing this has done has is test of if I am so emotionally attached to a game that I am going to let something someone else did ruin my experience, when really and truly it doesn't affect me at all.
    SnowyBugStellaeora
  • facefacefaceface
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 1,720
    Posts: 250
    Member
    Kiymori wrote: »
    faceface wrote: »
    Why y’all white knights always argue whether it affects individual players directly. It has nothing to do with that, but more of what kind of punishment and attitude should be needed for people that intentionally breaks the tos. The truth is nothing in the form of cheating and bots directly affects players besides the potential of inflation. Now does that mean we should just ignore cheaters? Don’t think so. The real question is do legit players want to play with a bunch of cheaters, and that’s where the division comes. And while Nexon isn’t providing hard proof, but players aren’t stupid. There are obvious players that utilize this cheat and truth is nexon doesn’t have to provide hard proof for us to infer if a player is guilty or not. Yea there will be false positives but with the high amount of players using exploit the percentage of false positives from average players I would assume to be fairly low. Remember this isn’t some crazy lawsuit in real life, this is a game, players don’t need some hard proof to leave.

    I think you might be misunderstanding something here. A majority of the players who have posted on this forum are in favor of some form of discipline, the only area where the disagreement seems to lie is the severity of the punishment. Personally I believe that is Nexons job to decide and not ours. Now as for next portion of your post, if it was in response to me, I was not talking about proof of using the exploit, as Nexon can easily see look at the logs, but talking about proof of the banning or disciplining those involved(if that wasn't in response to me disregard this portion as a personal response to you). the only reason I mentioned it was because there have been people stating 'they would leave if action is not taken', but obviously in different words.

    Now as far as you saying there are 'obvious players that utilize this cheat', there really is no way for a random player to know this unless they actually know the player personally or have some kind of way of visually seeing it happen. If this cheat was as 'obvious' as you are saying it is, I believe it would have been MUCH more wide spread, except it was an exploit present in other versions of the game and only the people who knew about it, kept it low key.While the others just knew there was a method that existed, but no knowledge of how to perform it.

    Now as far as legit players not wanting to play with cheaters, I agree with you and I am sure there are those who would much rather quit over something like this, rather than continue to play the game. However, for me, finding out about something like this doesn't make me feel any different about the game at it's core, I still login, do my dailies, farm and log off, someone choosing to take advantage of flawed programming in this way isn't going to stop me from progressing, the only thing this has done has is test of if I am so emotionally attached to a game that I am going to let something someone else did ruin my experience, when really and truly it doesn't affect me at all.

    The post wasn't directed to you, but in the general form of argument that i'm seeing. "Severity of punishment", most people that disagree of perma really suggest no punishment at all, i mean 3 day, a week, even 30 day ban compare to the amount of advantage they gain isn't really a punishment, obviously taken into how much abuse was attempted into account. It's more of money not really emotional attachment. I've seen nexon games for over 10 years and i know how they operate, not i have play 90percent of their shi.tty game for over a month beside maplestory pre big bang, I hardly care about all this because I didn't spent money on this game, where people that did may feel cheated as they are supporting the game and something this big is just a let go. Nexon's decision won't make or break me in terms of playing this game as I really just care about content, but its more the way they deal with issues that I'm worried about and many others.
  • MeenuzMeenuz
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 320
    Posts: 4
    Member
    If it were me doing the call... I wouldnt perma ban them. I'd simply resolve the exploit and roll back their characters to the launch of the game. Enjoy your leveling and gearing from 0% boyz xD
  • justasomeonejustasomeone
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 760
    Posts: 20
    Member
    Ultralan wrote: »
    Ultralan wrote: »
    First of all I don't believe those players should be perma banned, maybe just give them a warning and call it a day.

    I was among the first to discover and have been using the "exploit" since 2 months ago and shared it with members of my guild and several other guilds. If you did not find out about the "exploit" in the long time it has been around then that was your own failure of responsibility. Why should players be banned for using a mechanic that was Nexon's own fault?

    Besides, the advantage gained from this "exploit" isn't really as big as you think. You still had to run cPap on your alts to get the weapons, and go through 60 extra hard dungeons to get more chances at socketing (Which is very frustrating for a lot of people, this is by bad design from Nexon). If Nexon had implemented proper in-account trading from the start then this whole thing wouldn't even have blown up like this.

    And given the current amount of players remaining, it would be dumb for them to start banning people. I know of whole guilds that are guilty of this, a lot of them within the top 10 guild list of NA East (Not going to disclose names), including my guild here. Not to mention I spend up to $500 every month buying UGC and more from the cash shop, which is nothing compared to some of the real whales that have also done the "exploit".

    In the end the mannequins have been disabled on Nexon's call, so that puts an end to it I guess. Instead of jerking off to hope your fellow players get banned, think about this -- If you did not seize the opportunity beforehand then you have only yourself to blame.

    Given you admit to using it, it'd be natural you don't want a permanent ban, but the fact you would accept a 30 day ban illustrates you KNEW what you were doing was wrong.
    Given the number of players remaining? MS2 is still one of the top F2P MMORPG's, and all this rhetoric about it being a "dead game" is a meme fueled by hype gamers who never intended to play the game for any longer than it being the flavor of the month new MMO title. EVERY game has an initial drop off, and there are no metrics that can accurately measure that drop off, especially given the largest quantity of hype gamers are on steam, thus dramatically skewing the steam charts.
    Third: you spending money on UGC doesn't give you or anyone else the right or entitlement to cheat. If it wasn't a "big deal" as you are trying to make it out to be, it would have been common public knowledge. But the simple fact that as SOON as it hit the public space, Nexon immediately restricted it, and your previous admission of guilt by the willingness to accept a temp ban, has clearly demonstrated this is a true exploit.
    And lastly, this quote "If you did not find out about the "exploit" in the long time it has been around then that was your own failure of responsibility." coupled with "If Nexon had implemented proper in-account trading from the start then this whole thing wouldn't even have blown up like this." I preemptively predicted and countered. Just because something was overlooked, doesn't make it a free for all. If a clerk leaves a cash register open, then doesn't mean you just grab the money without consequences. In fact, it's one of my favorite sayings, "Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.".
    What you're doing is trying to pass the blame onto Nexon, and not take responsibility for your actions. You're trying to diminish the punishment by down playing it, and making pseudo threats that if the punishment is too harsh, that the game will suffer as a whole [which is patently false by the way].

    You are precisely what is wrong not just with this game, but the gaming environment at large. Downplaying exploits and cheaters, giving company's the excuse to ignore the rules just because the cheaters paid money [and pretend normal players don't?]. You make excuse after excuse to justify not being punished while simultaneously admitting what you did was wrong. And then threatening the games future by inferring that so many people cheat, it's somehow the majority. Majority of the top 5%? Maybe, but the game as a whole, absolutely not.
    If anything, your admission you cheated, and your guild, you should be banned right now. I certainly hope they take action, and I hope they start by making an example of you.

    Never in my post did I mention accepting to a 30 day ban, don't even know where you got that from. I think even a 1 day ban is unacceptable, only a verbal warning should be given.

    How was anyone supposed to know that it counts as an exploit before they announced that they disabled the mannequin? I thought it was just a hidden in-game mechanic. If they included it in the game then it must have been fine. You can keep dreaming on about getting people banned, no one will get banned, and certainly not anyone from my guild.

    http://maplestory2.nexon.net/en/news/article/42468/producer-blog-gear-mannequin-exploit
  • ILakeILake
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 530
    Posts: 17
    Member
    edited 7:22AM January 11, 2019
    Well, now we have our answer, Nexon perma ban the guys who abused this exploit widely. Several players in my server were hit, all of them(no exception, as far as I can tell) were top players.

    A lot of guys had their weapons donwgraded, and I think this is only a fraction of the abusers, according to Nexon's post there will be further investigation, therefore most likely, more bans, and others punishments.
  • KiymoriKiymori
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 2,250
    Posts: 335
    Member
    ILake wrote: »
    Well, now we have our answer, Nexon perma ban the guys who abused this exploit widely. Several players in my server were hit, all of them(no exception, as far as I can tell) were top players.

    A lot of guys had their weapons donwgraded, and I think this is only a fraction of the abusers, according to Nexon's post there will be further investigation, therefore most likely, more bans, and others punishments.

    This is why I told people 'Just like Nexon handle it'. and just like I figured, they went based on how severe they deemed it to be.

    *shrugs* And as assumed, my life goes on as normal.
    SnowyBug