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Do you consider Meret-to-Meso trading pay to win?

TalnovaTalnova
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edited 10:11PM December 4, 2018 in General Chat
Genuinely curious what people think about it. I am not asking Nexon to put it in, to be honest I don't know if it is a good idea, and I kind of err on the side of don't put it in....
But, before you scroll to the bottom and tick yes, think about the following first:

1. If you can buy blue Merets with Mesos, it gives free to play players access to everything in the cash shop. It means people with no money who still want a pretty or unique character can get it somehow.

2. People are already buying off gold farmers anyway, this gives those desperate people who would risk their account for mesos, a legal way to get it for money ** hopefully they will be banned soon though

3. The only really benefit to having a lot of Mesos is to buy particularly high ticket items like an epic pet or wings, which is probably a waste of IRL money anyway, since people will get that eventually anyway if they have a little patience. There is also upgrade costs and accessory costs, but with changes coming, I also think they are a waste of IRL money.

Because I can only make one poll, I would love if you comment on whether you personally like it, regardless of whether you consider it pay to win. Also do you worry this would be the beginning and give Nexon the door it needs to begin adding more pay to win items? Do you think if they removed the Meso cost for gear upgrades it would reduce the pay-to-win element?

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I am kind of neutral if I am honest, I can afford to pay to play, but I don't really care to waste money on Mesos. BUT, I can understand the free to player player's plight of not being able to have access to anything in the cash shop.

Personally I HATE pay to win, but I have never considered "gold trading" pay to win. I consider pay to win to be items like gear with stats, boosters, potions/elixirs/food items (Yes, I am still salty elixirs are on the cash shop now, and would cheer if they were removed). I consider Meret-to-Meso to be more like pay to progress, and in general not very good value for money, but I like that it would open up cash shop items as an option to free to play players. I also think it would only be "fair" if it was for blue merets, not red merets.

At the same time I worry that the stigma of gold trading would kill the game, because I think a lot of people do consider it pay-to-win. Which is why I probably don't want it added to the game, but I kind of was curious what people think about it.
  1. Is Meret-to-Meso pay to win?60 votes
    1. Absolutely YES
       45% (27 votes)
    2. Yes and no... more like pay to get ahead
       23% (14 votes)
    3. NO, not at all
       32% (19 votes)

Comments

  • sader1992sader1992
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    edited 10:31PM December 4, 2018
    Meret-to-Meso is p2w
    you can buy endless fragment , endless onyx , you can buy epic pet
    reroll your items and pet endlessly , level up your pet and getting the best of the best
    who pay more will be more powerful

    there was p2w systems too in beta BTW but they removed it like the revive for meret when you die and the insta-enchant to +10 gemstone with the stones that you can buy from the cash-shop
    hopefully they don't apply them again in the future

    too far , Nexon is doing a good job of making a fully free to play game , (I am not talking about them fighting bots cuz they are doing a $$ity job in that subject) but ignoring the bot , if the game is bot free , the game is very good like it is in my opinion
    MiehRusikyWittlePlushyKyuukei
  • TalnovaTalnova
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    edited 10:32PM December 4, 2018
    sader1992 wrote: »
    Meret-to-Meso is p2w
    you can buy endless fragment , endless onyx , you can buy epic pet
    reroll your items and pet endlessly , level up your pet and getting the best of the best
    who pay more will be more powerful

    there was p2w systems too in beta BTW but they removed it like the revive for meret when you die and the insta-enchant to +10 gemstone with the stones that you can buy from the cash-shop
    hopefully they don't apply them again in the future

    I know and I was really happy when they were removed. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t want pay to win to be brought back, I was just curious since I heard discussion about it on a podcast.

    Your right though maybe I am kicking a bee’s nest even discussing it.
  • Sammich88Sammich88
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    I'd say yeah it is. As RNG as this game is, having more mesos increases the chances of RNG falling in your favor.

    If you don't have the mesos then you'll have a significantly less chance to run the RNG related stuff in the first place.
  • ZZZzzzZZZzzz
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    Meret-to-Meso trading is a better than buying meso. But how could those free to play players get enough meso to buy our meret ? I don't see any effective way to farm meso except botting.
  • DanDKDanDK
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    Talnova wrote: »
    Genuinely curious what people think about it. I am not asking Nexon to put it in, to be honest I don't know if it is a good idea, and I kind of err on the side of don't put it in....
    But, before you scroll to the bottom and tick yes, think about the following first:

    1. If you can buy blue Merets with Mesos, it gives free to play players access to everything in the cash shop. It means people with no money who still want a pretty or unique character can get it somehow.

    2. People are already buying off gold farmers anyway, this gives those desperate people who would risk their account for mesos, a legal way to get it for money ** hopefully they will be banned soon though

    3. The only really benefit to having a lot of Mesos is to buy particularly high ticket items like an epic pet or wings, which is probably a waste of IRL money anyway, since people will get that eventually anyway if they have a little patience. There is also upgrade costs and accessory costs, but with changes coming, I also think they are a waste of IRL money.

    All three of your arguments are related to discussing whether the system should exist or not. However, neither of them affect your poll question which is simply whether it is pay-to-win. By definition it is since it allows progress through paying real money. This is a factual definition and not up for debate.

    As for whether it is acceptable P2W, I think you have many fair points and I will leave that discussion to others. With the current bot scenario I do agree that there is no moderation against illegal meso trading so we might as well legalize it (your 2.), however another poster makes a reasonable point that few legit players will have any mesos to spare in the first place to trade for merets so the question is whether this system really benefits anyone.
    Talnova
  • BanxBanx
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    edited 5:15AM December 5, 2018
    People that will buy merets will probably be bots, or people who bought mesos from bots to then use it to buy merets cheaper. There is no way of making enough mesos to upgrade your gear and have spare money to buy merets, unless you dont care about your gear, but i doubt this is the majority of players. Mesos in this game are really impactful, so it will turn in a p2w and make people like me quit. They need to fix the bot issue and honestly those suggestions doesnt help at all. This is almost as suggesting to legalize bot.
    Talnova
  • NahoNaho
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    edited 5:29AM December 5, 2018
    No this system ISN'T p2w at all. For the love of god , stop with the stupid definition you guys are giving all over the place to p2w. If we take everything you say , literally every game is p2w since when you pay for something , you already win something ...
    ZZZzzzShenRyujin
  • SpiritAnimalSpiritAnimal
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    I played a game with this system before and all it did was sky rocket everything in the auction house and rush everyone into max gems or anything equivalent. Soon after people quit because either they got bored or couldn’t pay to compete with the wallet warriors.
    TalnovaWaterful
  • CabreraCabrera
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    Okay I have a certain view to this possibility,

    1. If Meret to Mesos happens, Meso sellers = gain even more, why? example: I would like to buy a name change voucher, If i do pay with Merets, it costs say 10$, if i pay for Mesos which can buy me the merets = 9$(it usually is the case, meso sellers will do it in a way that it will be cheaper to buy mesos than merets for their benefits) and RIP bots will increase so much that it will exceed the legit population (it is already going to that point).

    2. Why do u even need it? I understand u might like a cute dress or mount that u wanna use but meh if u really want it just pay for it, if youre too poor to use money, then dont use it, its an option theres no rule that you MUST get what u want no matter what happens. From past experience, MMOs have made this concept possible BUT, what happens? they dont get actual money in comparison to what they WOULD get by direct conversion from $ to merets. It eventually evens out to what they get now but they have to fight a fck ton of influx of bots. It would basically is like you poke 2 holes in a water baloon and u seal one of the holes, does it solve the leaks? no it just remains the same, ur still losing water.

    3. Literally becomes pay 2 win. There are enough lazy people crying about stuff being hard to get. Get them an advantage by letting them buy merets and get ez Mesos, it becomes more of a pay 2 win than helping the community. The richest dude will set the price between Merets and Mesos and normal players will still stay suffering while the rich kids get the cool toys for use(I have literally seen this happen with other Korean games).( and please dont say that you cant get any "game advancing stuff" with this concept, Merets> mesos> buy Chaos raid runs> ez advancement in game)

    TL;DR; So in a perfect world where bots didnt exist, this would help the community get whatever they want with game currencies, but, as we all know this isnt the case and it might never end but bots could reduce in the future with more constraints put on them. Until then, Merets> Mesos trading environment will bleed the economy hard.
    Talnova
  • TalnovaTalnova
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    edited 6:33AM December 5, 2018
    You guys have made some really good points against it to be honest. I was curious since I heard people saying it is not pay to win and should be added, but after reading the points made I can see why people are so against it.

    I still don’t consider it pay to win, but I can see why it would be bad for the game.
  • TalnovaTalnova
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    “DanDK wrote: »

    All three of your arguments are related to discussing whether the system should exist or not. However, neither of them affect your poll question which is simply whether it is pay-to-win. By definition it is since it allows progress through paying real money. This is a factual definition and not up for debate.

    As for whether it is acceptable P2W, I think you have many fair points and I will leave that discussion to others. With the current bot scenario I do agree that there is no moderation against illegal meso trading so we might as well legalize it (your 2.), however another poster makes a reasonable point that few legit players will have any mesos to spare in the first place to trade for merets so the question is whether this system really benefits anyone.

    Yeah I wanted to add two polls but it isn’t possible. /shrug

    I am still happy with the response it is interesting to hear people’s point of view. It definitely sounds like a lot of people would be angry if it was added, and the arguments against it sound fair.
  • IllIIlIllIIl
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    edited 9:12AM December 5, 2018
    Games like GW2 have clearly shown that such systems are not inherently P2W and if done right it would be a great addition to the game.
    ShenRyujin
  • WittlePlushyWittlePlushy
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    edited 9:18AM December 5, 2018
    Even if they were to implement this imagine the backlash. Not only are there conspiracies going around about them working with bots for money (painting them as a slimy company that only cares about money), but it would pretty much be a slap in the face to people who weren't buying meso in the sense that Nexon would be condoning the action of purchasing meso. People would start calling this game p2w and it'd become even more difficult to get new players to try it especially with the company's history.

    Personally I think meret > meso would be p2w but I'm more concerned with the impact this would have.
  • KiymoriKiymori
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    edited 5:28PM December 5, 2018
    Unless they introduce items in the game that are only obtainable through the cash shop that directly affect PvP content then no.

    Nobody cares if you win at PvE.....It's PvE. The only place where players really get upset is PvP where someone can have a piece of armor that gives a ridiculous advantage over another player that is only obtainable if you spend money then I would agree. However if it's a case where a player can simply 'enchant their gear faster to +15', then again still I don't think that's pay2win.One ,I don't mind having whales in my party to help with hard content, and two, if the person outgears you in OPvP they probably are going to kill you anyway(and seeing as this games OPvP is already a joke does it really matter?).

    So assuming those factors are not involved, the simple conversion of real life cash to meso means nothing to me. Get a job, start a business, do something with your life that financially grows you, I won't be upset because someone is responsible enough to earn a living and has the ability to treat themselves via spending on a game. Besides, I am 90% sure they are already planning to do this at some point or another.
    ZZZzzz
  • SherriSherri
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    I'm half and half on the issue. It would be P2W but it would stop the bots, which is something we all want.
  • EinoEino
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    edited 1:26PM December 5, 2018
    Many acclaimed and popular western MMOs (WoW, ESO, GW2 etc.) have "real money to in-game cash" trading, and nobody calls them P2W MMOs.

    ZZZzzzHowlye
  • FuriousOniFuriousOni
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    Eino wrote: »
    Many acclaimed and popular western MMOs (WoW, ESO, GW2 etc.) have "real money to in-game cash" trading, and nobody calls them P2W MMOs.

    I don't remember gold giving you any sort of benefits in GW2 or WoW (still on an active sub and all I buy is transmogs from the AH). Not sure why you're trying to compare those games to this one, where you actually have to spend in game currency to progress.

    This whole thread is simply the OP justifying that Nexon should sell Mesos because bots are already doing it. I think someone is getting a suspension for buying from bots.
    Banx
  • ZZZzzzZZZzzz
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    edited 4:14PM December 5, 2018
    FuriousOni wrote: »
    I don't remember gold giving you any sort of benefits in GW2 or WoW (still on an active sub and all I buy is transmogs from the AH). Not sure why you're trying to compare those games to this one, where you actually have to spend in game currency to progress.

    This whole thread is simply the OP justifying that Nexon should sell Mesos because bots are already doing it. I think someone is getting a suspension for buying from bots.

    I played GW2 couple years ago and people could buy legendary weapon with gold. The legendary weapon gives a little bit more stats than any other weapon around that time and they looks cool.
    We dont have to spend meso to progress. All elitists are skilled players from KMS2 and I don't see any meso buyer is actually getting ahead of them.

    Only some of FREE TO PLAY players got banned due to meso buying. We already confirmed some people who bought multiple runs of CPAP for 300m per run are still playing
  • FuriousOniFuriousOni
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    edited 4:40PM December 5, 2018
    ZZZzzz wrote: »
    FuriousOni wrote: »
    I don't remember gold giving you any sort of benefits in GW2 or WoW (still on an active sub and all I buy is transmogs from the AH). Not sure why you're trying to compare those games to this one, where you actually have to spend in game currency to progress.

    This whole thread is simply the OP justifying that Nexon should sell Mesos because bots are already doing it. I think someone is getting a suspension for buying from bots.

    I played GW2 couple years ago and people could buy legendary weapon with gold. The legendary weapon gives a little bit more stats than any other weapon around that time and they looks cool.
    We dont have to spend meso to progress. All elitists are skilled players from KMS2 and I don't see any meso buyer is actually getting ahead of them.

    Only some of FREE TO PLAY players got banned due to meso buying. We already confirmed some people who bought multiple runs of CPAP for 300m per run are still playing

    I would love to know how long it took you to get to +15 with just crystals and frags from chests/drops only. Or do anything that requires frags for that matter. Where did you get all those candies to catch more pets for your pet levels. How did you created your accessories without mesos. How did you analyze your keys without mesos. How did you life skill without mesos... etc. Please do tell.

    By now, you should know I'm not talking about needing to BUY mesos to progress. I meant, you literally need to spend mesos in game to progress. And buying mesos completely negates that.
  • CryotronCryotron
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    Crap... I said "no" without reading the question correctly.

    Yes, it would make the game p2w although that might not be necessarily the case since Mesos can only grant you enough trials to get anywhere higher.

    Trials as in a chance to RNG to get +x where x is the enchantment level on your weapon.