Check out the patch notes for the v19 Winter Mischief update here: http://maplestory2.nexon.net/en/news/article/55464/winter-mischief-v19

I got some idea for Nexon to fight bots

ZZZzzzZZZzzz
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in Suggestions and Feedback
The high demand for meso made people to buy meso from bots. We need to let people farm meso and find out why do people need a lot of meso.

Increasing meso reward will not totally fix the problem since the economy was already ruined. We can solve the problem by reducing the demand for meso. I have found several huge meso sink that could be fixed based on my experience.

1. Change bonus stats requires a lot of crystal fragments which can be bought from merchant directly with MESO. The cost could be huge because of brutal RNG. We need another way to roll stats. We need stats reroll scroll from dungeon or cash shop with unlimited supply, and make them bound to account. Some MESO buyers will stop buying MESO for crystal fragment for this reason.

2. People are buying B4 runs with MESO since B4 dungeon is the best way for gem right now and B4 key is rare. Buying all 5 runs per week will cost about 20M meso per character per week. Although I heard that there is another dungeon for gem in KMS2, we still need B4 keys for now. We need something to let us farm 5x B4 keys per character per week without spending MESO. Most of B4 buyers will stop buying MESO from bots.

3. People buy rare dungeon drops with ridiculous huge amount of MESO. Items are overpriced because of the ruined economy. People are paying high price for those items because of the reasons below.
First, the items are too rare. people feel to hard to farm them. The drop rate should not be less than 2% so that everybody can get one from 60 runs per week.
Second, items with high RNG stats such as Balrog wings with 4% piercing. The RNG definitely need to be balanced because it cause problems. Items with constant stats will not usually cost too much.
Third, the items with sockets such as Kandura pendent. People need 8 items minimum to unlock all 3 sockets and the success rates are not reliable. It is nearly impossible to farm all 8 items alone. Either increase the success rate of unlocking socket to 100% or greatly increase the drop rate could solve this problem

Comments

  • VisualFxxVisualFxx
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    After reading your number 1 statement I honestly stopped reading. Because you said scrolls in cash shop being unlimited. NO ONE wants this game to be p2w garbage like ms1 turned into. So please don't give them ANY ideas of cash shop items what so ever.
    FantasykittenSherriKitTMeso_ManArgonaut_of_MC
  • ZZZzzzZZZzzz
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    VisualFxx wrote: »
    After reading your number 1 statement I honestly stopped reading. Because you said scrolls in cash shop being unlimited. NO ONE wants this game to be p2w garbage like ms1 turned into. So please don't give them ANY ideas of cash shop items what so ever.

    I will choose p2w if it will eliminate bots. Nothing in this world is free and both KMS2 and CMS2 are P2W. They removed P2W but didnt balance the game thats why bots are here. Don't you think premium is P2W ? Don't you think paying cash to expand slots is P2W ? Don't you think buying Meso is P2W ? All of these exist. I don't see any difference.

    Okay you can call RNG in cash shop is P2W. I don't know how can I beat you up or win you anything with reroll scrolls ,lol. It is still RNG, you did not lose your chance in RNG. Actually I am the person who cursed RNG a lot .
    Defraglife
  • XenociderOmegaXenociderOmega
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    ZZZzzz wrote: »
    VisualFxx wrote: »
    After reading your number 1 statement I honestly stopped reading. Because you said scrolls in cash shop being unlimited. NO ONE wants this game to be p2w garbage like ms1 turned into. So please don't give them ANY ideas of cash shop items what so ever.

    I will choose p2w if it will eliminate bots. Nothing in this world is free and both KMS2 and CMS2 are P2W. They removed P2W but didnt balance the game thats why bots are here. Don't you think premium is P2W ? Don't you think paying cash to expand slots is P2W ? Don't you think buying Meso is P2W ? All of these exist. I don't see any difference.

    Okay you can call RNG in cash shop is P2W. I don't know how can I beat you up or win you anything with reroll scrolls ,lol. It is still RNG, you did not lose your chance in RNG. Actually I am the person who cursed RNG a lot .

    So you want to go from bots killing the game to p2w killing the game what a genius idea.
    QtzMiehHeimerdingerSherriMeso_ManChernobyteArgonaut_of_MC
  • ZZZzzzZZZzzz
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    edited 11:45AM November 24, 2018
    So you want to go from bots killing the game to p2w killing the game what a genius idea.
    Why do you think P2W will kill the game ? In fact, P2W is what supporting the game

    BDO is P2W. 24h peak 14617
    https://steamcharts.com/app/582660

    GMS2 is not P2W. 24h peak 11137
    https://steamcharts.com/app/560380

  • ArkeyArkey
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    edited 3:09PM November 24, 2018
    No one likes p2w, its that simple. There are actually loads more ways to deal with bots that doesn't require them to do much. Archeage manage to destroy bots entirely for years with 1 or 2 slipping through every couple of months. Not sure how but its obviously possible. Your ideas are bad for Nexon AND the community as a whole for trying to keep this game semi casual, cutesy, and unintimidating. They don't need to do P2W because they have an entire ingame shop where people make content FOR them where they charge you to list AND take 30% of the cut. As well as charge for literally just chatting. They have a very stable income and don't need the backlash of making it pay to win.

    They say they ban thousands of bots a day but it doesn't seem to be making a dent, theres always a bot running past every minute on a auto path and they've even started changing their name generating into more player like while some are stil jitljafa. Which makes me think there are atleast 2 advertising factions. One where the bots just stand around in a guild name with their website and flash mob places and the traditional ones that are invasive and annoying.

    Why not start with the easiest to do, make channel and world chat unavailable until lv 30. They give out a bunch of channel chat vouchers at certain lvls but world chat is only available from buying premium, no bot would waste it on that. Perhaps do something about the channel chat vouchers that make it slightly more annoying for them to do.... maybe? put the chat vouchers in a box so they need to redo the bot script to open the box before using it? Having it in a box might give them an error and they just skip the spam part of their life cycle all together.

    A more radical idea, credit card information on sign up? Its more annoying to generate fake credit cards. Its just to prove that you are human and if your a young child, have the consent of an adult to play. Most of the player base are teens to adults in their 20s.

    Don't know if they somehow made a captcha bot that can find their way through the human tests but adding those won't hurt.

    I don't know how complex the dungeon party finder system is but half the time the party is filled with bots farming a dungeon. By clicking on the party finder they pop their heads out. Why not use that, the generic bot name, and maybe even the player statistics to find the bot. Some no life alt farming weirdos might be banned in the process but they can always appeal, bots won't. They'll just make another.

    Then again, we have seen bots use super chat, world chats, and even sometimes post public templates for a quick buck. That means those bots have put in their credit cards to acquire the merets to buy super chats. These would be real working cards and not fake generated. So.... gift cards? They don't seem to be able to do it often and might need to manually create an account to prepare a world spam.

    You just need to dig deeper into the way they think and cut them off and make it annoying for them, not ruin the economy and game just to stop bots. There will always be bots in a game, ALWAYS. The best the Nexon anti bot team can do is remove their presence and reduce their creation rate with road blocks. We need to be realistic.


    Meso_ManArgonaut_of_MC
  • ZZZzzzZZZzzz
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    edited 3:48PM November 24, 2018
    Arkey wrote: »
    No one likes p2w, its that simple. There are actually loads more ways to deal with bots that doesn't require them to do much. Archeage manage to destroy bots entirely for years with 1 or 2 slipping through every couple of months. Not sure how but its obviously possible. Your ideas are bad for Nexon AND the community as a whole for trying to keep this game semi casual, cutesy, and unintimidating. They don't need to do P2W because they have an entire ingame shop where people make content FOR them where they charge you to list AND take 30% of the cut. As well as charge for literally just chatting. They have a very stable income and don't need the backlash of making it pay to win.

    They say they ban thousands of bots a day but it doesn't seem to be making a dent, theres always a bot running past every minute on a auto path and they've even started changing their name generating into more player like while some are stil jitljafa. Which makes me think there are atleast 2 advertising factions. One where the bots just stand around in a guild name with their website and flash mob places and the traditional ones that are invasive and annoying.

    Why not start with the easiest to do, make channel and world chat unavailable until lv 30. They give out a bunch of channel chat vouchers at certain lvls but world chat is only available from buying premium, no bot would waste it on that. Perhaps do something about the channel chat vouchers that make it slightly more annoying for them to do.... maybe? put the chat vouchers in a box so they need to redo the bot script to open the box before using it? Having it in a box might give them an error and they just skip the spam part of their life cycle all together.

    A more radical idea, credit card information on sign up? Its more annoying to generate fake credit cards. Its just to prove that you are human and if your a young child, have the consent of an adult to play. Most of the player base are teens to adults in their 20s.

    Don't know if they somehow made a captcha bot that can find their way through the human tests but adding those won't hurt.

    I don't know how complex the dungeon party finder system is but half the time the party is filled with bots farming a dungeon. By clicking on the party finder they pop their heads out. Why not use that, the generic bot name, and maybe even the player statistics to find the bot. Some no life alt farming weirdos might be banned in the process but they can always appeal, bots won't. They'll just make another.

    Then again, we have seen bots use super chat, world chats, and even sometimes post public templates for a quick buck. That means those bots have put in their credit cards to acquire the merets to buy super chats. These would be real working cards and not fake generated. So.... gift cards? They don't seem to be able to do it often and might need to manually create an account to prepare a world spam.

    You just need to dig deeper into the way they think and cut them off and make it annoying for them, not ruin the economy and game just to stop bots. There will always be bots in a game, ALWAYS. The best the Nexon anti bot team can do is remove their presence and reduce their creation rate with road blocks. We need to be realistic.


    I like P2W, not everybody hate P2W. I know nothing in this world is free. All these free to play players are not enough to support this game. Pretty much Nexon made some money from legendary packs. This also can be called P2W.

    The effect of chat spamming is minor. It can be fixed easily as you said, and it wont bother those people who don't use world chat. The serious problem is that bots ruined our economy. Bots sell meso. Things shouldnt be so expensive without bots and people usually cannot make so much meso. The keyword here is MESO. Bots wont be able to sell anything if there is no demand for meso. Nobody cares about what bots are doing if they did not ruin our economy.

    The ingame shop is pointless now. Buying costume for what ? there is no stats and many players just hide others to avoid lag.
  • ArkeyArkey
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    edited 4:22PM November 24, 2018
    There is nothing we can do about it, Bots make it easier for the rest of us players. Take Runescape for example, the great bot purge. Made all material prices rise 10-20 fold. Making it near impossible for an average player to afford even a decent basic commodities that require alot of farming and grinding. Then Jagex realized this and actually slowly loosened their grip on the bot destruction. Bots are a parasite.... but also a symbiote. We live with bots, its been this way for decades. Yes, there are ways they can make the bots less rampant but there will never be a way to remove them. Pay 2 Win option doesn't remove bots. Bots are still a cheaper alternative for mesos. Instead of buying a p2w item from the meret market to sell in the black market.

    The bots gathers alot of useful stuff and sells it for cheap to the players and aquires mesos to sell to players for real money. Thats a win for us, we get cheap items and we get to play the game without slaving away on the grind. The bots aren't messing up our economy too much, it flows up and down, infact bots are good. What you don't like is people spending real money to buy mesos? Thats basically p2w btw, which you endorse (but its p2w to another company and not to nexon lol). All nexon needs to do is ban the player who makes the transaction. Bam, the gold they earned disappears along with the person who wants to buy it. Why try to stop a waterfall when you can wait for it to become a river and build a dam at a choke point. The buyer is banned, He probably spent like 100 dollars on that gold and had a 6k GS chaos raid character. Well its gone now, he's not going to try again any time soon. The bots will keep going, trying to find new customers. We don't kill the bots, they are legion; we kill the players who buy from them until they have no customers.

    But that is NEXON'S side, their job in the backgrounds. What we players want in the foreground is to remove BOT presence entirely. Kill their spam and remove their annoyance. Out of sight, out of mind. They'll still exist, botting, fueling the economy, getting destroyed, leading gms to illegal buyers, the underworld of maplestory 2 while we live in the rich white people neighborhoods.

    You like p2w, yea and some people like p2w. But you know what, the people who hate p2w vastly outnumber people who do and we have had countless examples of how p2w destroyed a game. You gave examples of how BDO had p2w at its peak, yet I know that BDO has had a huge exodus and quitting because of the p2w. Look at archeage, a complete promising game that became a complete ghost town because of its rampant pay 2 win structure and I used them as an example about their pro anti-bot skills. They killed off nearly all their bots and yet the p2w structure destroyed them in the long run. P2W is not sustainable.

    Key word is Meso, but your not trying to sell your argument to me, your trying to sell it to NEXON. They want their demographic to be teens to young adults, they already have maplestory, a p2w nightmare that still hates a ton of bots that people hate. They are going a different direction for Maplestory 2. NO P2W and they aren't going to go p2w just to stop some bots when again, there are other solutions. If you make the in game currency useless to the point bots give up and the only way to buy anything is with real money... think about it, what happens to the game. Everyone quits, even the bots. In the end no one wins.
  • ZZZzzzZZZzzz
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    Arkey wrote: »
    There is nothing we can do about it, Bots make it easier for the rest of us players. Take Runescape for example, the great bot purge. Made all material prices rise 10-20 fold. Making it near impossible for an average player to afford even a decent basic commodities that require alot of farming and grinding. Then Jagex realized this and actually slowly loosened their grip on the bot destruction. Bots are a parasite.... but also a symbiote. We live with bots, its been this way for decades. Yes, there are ways they can make the bots less rampant but there will never be a way to remove them. Pay 2 Win option doesn't remove bots. Bots are still a cheaper alternative for mesos. Instead of buying a p2w item from the meret market to sell in the black market.

    You like p2w, yea and some people like p2w. But you know what, the people who hate p2w vastly outnumber people who do and we have had countless examples of how p2w destroyed a game. You gave examples of how BDO had p2w at its peak, yet I know that BDO has had a huge exodus and quitting because of the p2w. Look at archeage, a complete promising game that became a complete ghost town because of its rampant pay 2 win structure and I used them as an example about their pro anti-bot skills. They killed off nearly all their bots and yet the p2w structure destroyed them in the long run. P2W is not sustainable.

    Key word is Meso, but your not trying to sell your argument to me, your trying to sell it to NEXON. They want their demographic to be teens to young adults, they already have maplestory, a p2w nightmare that still hates a ton of bots that people hate. They are going a different direction for this game. NO P2W and they aren't going to go p2w just to stop some bots when again, there are other solutions. If you make the in game currency useless to the point bots give up and the only way to buy anything is with real money... think about it, what happens to the game. Everyone quits, even the bots. In the end no one wins.

    What could be defined as WIN in this game while we are talking about P2W ? Personally I just want to get perfect stats with some time and money investment. I just don't know what can I win with perfect stats if its called P2W. I hate RNG too much and eager to find a way to avoid it.
  • ArkeyArkey
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    edited 4:37PM November 24, 2018
    Well you can't get perfect stats. Thats the game, they aren't going to hold your hand that much, the game is already easy enough as it is. I ran fire dragon 200 times. I got my +15 pierce and magic pierce. I did Cdev, it was easy. Thats it, theres no more gameplay after that, its all just chatting and playing music while dressing up and having fun. Whats the point of getting perfect stats? So you kill something 3 seconds faster? They'll replace that gear in a few weeks while NEXON gives the casuals more free crates with gear in it to catch up. When lvl 70 comes out? They wasted all their time and money getting perfect stats. Then theres a even higher gap then just a new dungeon. Lv 70 gear lets you kill balrog in 30 seconds. The game is still new, putting so much time into being the best while there are new updates every month that increase the gearscore by 2k is crazy.

    You don't even need to buy Cdev runs, just join a guild. Or join a party with the bare minimum stats needed. You either make it through or you don't. If you beat it once, you already have a good piece of legendary gear to prove you have experience to be invited again.

    On the 30th. New update will make hard dungeons easier and you can select what drops, its just nexon holding the casual's hands. Everyone will have +15 weapons. Everyone will be atleast 5.5k Gearscore. EVERYONE will be doing Cdevs as if it were fire dragon. You'll join a group and after some trial and error, kill it. After a week, Cdevs will become so easy its just like killing fire dragon at 3k gearscore during the first month. So there is no easy way for you to get good. This is a korean game, you come here to grind. Your wallet won't save you here, the lazy ones buy real mesos and get banned or sneak through to buy their epic gear just to replace it in a few weeks. It doesn't matter in the end.
    iinferno
  • ArkeyArkey
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    edited 4:49PM November 24, 2018
    So from the looks of what I gleamed from your thought process and arguments.

    "You are mad at the game because of the RNG, understandable. Other people are better than you, they must be cheating and buying mesos. They buy mesos from bots. The bots are bad. REMOVE THE BOTS. I want just want to get good by p2w. Remove the bots by making the game pay 2 win. P2W games are good."

    What you said at the beginning almost sounded like communism.
  • ZZZzzzZZZzzz
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    edited 5:15PM November 24, 2018
    Arkey wrote: »
    So from the looks of what I gleamed from your thought process and arguments.

    "You are mad at the game because of the RNG, understandable. Other people are better than you, they must be cheating and buying mesos. They buy mesos from bots. The bots are bad. REMOVE THE BOTS. I want just want to get good by p2w. Remove the bots by making the game pay 2 win. P2W games are good."

    What you said at the beginning almost sounded like communism.

    Game is casual friendly. I like it, however, there are still competitions between top players. They could hit top for their own reasons. They might got experience from KMS2, got blessed by RNG, no life, bought meso, cheated. Everybody is playing with their own advantages. I need to have something if I want to join the competition. I didnt play in KMS2. I hate RNG. I have life. I think only P2W is good for me.

    Bots break the rules.
    Experience is nothing. Just buy meso and buy runs.
    RNG is nothing, Just buy meso and buy balrog with 4.0% piercing from BM
    No life is nothing. Just buy meso instead of farming.

    Eliminating bots is good for majority, and there is nothing can be defined as win in this game. Why not to add something to make people happy ?

    Sorry I don't understand what communism means
  • CryotronCryotron
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    edited 8:47PM November 24, 2018
    Or...

    Nexon could just enforce with CAPTCHA...
    iinfernoFantasykittenArgonaut_of_MC
  • MiehMieh
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    ZZZzzz wrote: »
    I think only P2W is good for me.
    You summed up the whole thread.

    No, really. They have a lot to lose if they turn this into p2w. If players are leaving already, I can't imagine how many more would join them if that happened.
    I'd be one of them.
  • HeimerdingerHeimerdinger
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    from 1 form of p2w to another hahahaha
  • ZZZzzzZZZzzz
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    edited 4:42AM November 25, 2018
    Mieh wrote: »
    No, really. They have a lot to lose if they turn this into p2w. If players are leaving already, I can't imagine how many more would join them if that happened.
    I'd be one of them.

    your thought of P2W and my thought might be different. How can you define P2W and what is WIN in this game ? I doubt there is an answer.
    Nexon is very smart for not selling anything in cash shop so that people thought this game is not P2W, however, meso buying is definitely P2W . Crying nerds who hate P2W are just blind and lying to themselves. I will choose P2W instead of RNG because I am not a stupid lazy guy who is waiting for end game gears drop into pocket. Of course, I will be okay without P2W if they remove RNG. I can work toward the goal. I just don't work for nothing.

    No, MS2 are not going to lose a lot of player with some minor P2W contents. Because players got NO OTHER CHOICE. People cannot find any other FREE TO PLAY MMORPG WITHOUT P2W in NA except MOBA and FPS.
  • SabeiSabei
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    ZZZzzz wrote: »
    Why do you think P2W will kill the game ? In fact, P2W is what supporting the game

    BDO is P2W. 24h peak 14617
    This is very misleading. You failed to mention that BDO heavily encourages players to stay logged in 24/7 for various reasons and has built-in bot-like systems related to life skills which makes the game seem much more active than it really is.
  • ZZZzzzZZZzzz
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    edited 11:19AM November 25, 2018
    Sabei wrote: »
    This is very misleading. You failed to mention that BDO heavily encourages players to stay logged in 24/7 for various reasons and has built-in bot-like systems related to life skills which makes the game seem much more active than it really is.
    GMS2 also encourage players to stay logged 24/7. A lot of trophies are time based. Assistants' mood will decrease when you are offline. People can get crystals from afk fishing

  • LilyXSLilyXS
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    ZZZzzz wrote: »
    Mieh wrote: »
    No, really. They have a lot to lose if they turn this into p2w. If players are leaving already, I can't imagine how many more would join them if that happened.
    I'd be one of them.

    your thought of P2W and my thought might be different. How can you define P2W and what is WIN in this game ? I doubt there is an answer.
    Nexon is very smart for not selling anything in cash shop so that people thought this game is not P2W, however, meso buying is definitely P2W . Crying nerds who hate P2W are just blind and lying to themselves. I will choose P2W instead of RNG because I am not a stupid lazy guy who is waiting for end game gears drop into pocket. Of course, I will be okay without P2W if they remove RNG. I can work toward the goal. I just don't work for nothing.

    No, MS2 are not going to lose a lot of player with some minor P2W contents. Because players got NO OTHER CHOICE. People cannot find any other FREE TO PLAY MMORPG WITHOUT P2W in NA except MOBA and FPS.

    This is SO misleading. MS2 is not p2w because of Meso selling websites. That is not a system implemented by Nexon so saying MS2 is p2w because of an external third party system is just entirely wrong. If you get caught buying Meso from one of these sites your account gets banned. No appeal so obviously Nexon does not approve of this way of the game being played.
    MiehArgonaut_of_MC
  • MiehMieh
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    edited 10:39AM November 25, 2018
    ZZZzzz wrote: »
    your thought of P2W and my thought might be different. How can you define P2W and what is WIN in this game ? I doubt there is an answer.
    Nexon is very smart for not selling anything in cash shop so that people thought this game is not P2W, however, meso buying is definitely P2W . Crying nerds who hate P2W are just blind and lying to themselves. I will choose P2W instead of RNG because I am not a stupid lazy guy who is waiting for end game gears drop into pocket. Of course, I will be okay without P2W if they remove RNG. I can work toward the goal. I just don't work for nothing.

    No, MS2 are not going to lose a lot of player with some minor P2W contents. Because players got NO OTHER CHOICE. People cannot find any other FREE TO PLAY MMORPG WITHOUT P2W in NA except MOBA and FPS.

    Your idea of P2W is "being able to buy reroll scrolls from the cash shop", right? So how is that any different from our current RNG-based endgame?

    And look, it's not like you need the perfect rolls to play the end-game content. It's silly to try to get perfect stats on pieces of gear that will be replaced by other legendary drops that we get from future content...

    And like some have already pointed out, buying mesos is against the rules and will get you banned if they find out.
    And even if you buy mesos and get away with it you still have to get lucky with RNG. Mesos can't buy you weapon drops to enchant your weapon further. Sure, you might be able to buy all the onyx you need, but you still need the sacrificial weapons. And while you could buy B4 runs to get the reroll scrolls, you'd first need to get lucky on your armor/accessory rolls first sooooo...
    How would your P2W idea help us in any way again?
  • ZZZzzzZZZzzz
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    LilyXS wrote: »
    This is SO misleading. MS2 is not p2w because of Meso selling websites. That is not a system implemented by Nexon so saying MS2 is p2w because of an external third party system is just entirely wrong. If you get caught buying Meso from one of these sites your account gets banned. No appeal so obviously Nexon does not approve of this way of the game being played.

    Sorry about the misleading. I was not trying to say MS2 is P2W. I said meso buying itself is P2W. It's not related to the game.

    The people who hate P2W, can never get out of P2W unless they stop playing any game. because P2W is everywhere.

    Banning people could not solve the problem. I don't know how bots could survive but buyers can always make chargebacks to avoid loss