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problems with End-game elitist want specific stats

Comments

  • OneConfusedMilletianOneConfusedMilletian
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    Kewkky wrote: »
    Let me play the devil's advocate here...

    1) Cdev has 650m HP.
    - Divided equally between 10 players INCLUDING the priest and the knight, it's 65m per person.
    - Assuming the priest and the knight have to do the same as a DPS when combined (calculating for 9 people), it's 72.2m per person.
    - Assuming neither will be pulling their weight (calculating for 8 people), it's 81.25m per person.

    2) Cmoc has 910m hp.
    - Same as before: between 10 players, it's 91m per person.
    - Same as before: between 9 players, it's 101.1m per person.
    - Same as before: between 8 players, it's 113.75m per person.

    3) Cpap has 1460m HP.
    - Same as before: between 10 players, it's 146m per person.
    - Same as before: between 9 players, it's 162.2m per person.
    - Same as before: between 8 players, it's 182.5m per person.

    When you go to the Chaos Raid instance and test your DPS on the target dummies, what's your DPS? Are you hitting near any of the above numbers? If you're below all of them, then understand that people generally dislike failing, and would rather invite people who SEEM to be able to pull their own weight, rather than risking it for someone they don't know who SEEMS like they won't be able to pull their own weight.

    In order to avoid this, join a good guild. If your guild is bad at running chaos raids, or are inactive, leave it. Don't let your emotional attachments sour the game for you.

    Awesome breakdown, and useful training tool. I'd only add that solo target dummy practice only reflects one aspect of Chaos Raids - solo DPS. It doesn't take into account positioning, mob control, and least of all team buffs.

    For example, if a Knight wants to practice on target dummies for CDev, they may eventually find a strategy that gets them to 36m, maybe even 65m. But I'd bet that their strategy would fall apart in raid, because they haven't practiced peeling off to handle adds, or haven't figured out how to shield allies at the right time, or haven't taken into account buffs like Holy Symbol. Non-optimal teamwork will always lead to non-optimal play, even if everyone "does their bit."

    Practice runs are really the only way to train for this, and while the reality is that people will invite people on practice runs based on an incomplete notion of "pulling one's weight," we should still recognize that their thinking is flawed. I just don't think succumbing to frustration like OP is the way to go. ;)

    @NiahmhNyx I hope you can find a guild that plays at the same time as you. I can understand how frustrating that's got to be for you. :(
    Kewkky
  • iinfernoiinferno
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    Both of you guys above make good points.

    So i'll try to answer, about practice runs if you are denied from one just make your own, i assume you know by now which classes are needed and at what point in the raid, based on my experience in my server people are willing to overlook stats as long as you have a decent weapon 14/15 taking anyone who meets those requierements with/without epic pet since they are pretty expensive atm.

    IDK how it may be in your server but im sure there are others getting rejected as well that can pull their own weight and even some more that will join you. I've had people with average stats and +14 weapon do 93M by the end and others with +15 and good stats/gemstones do around 35M so you can't really judge someone by their stats...

    About the dummy i still see it as misleading af and wouldn't join someone who recruits based on that, classes have their roles and you can't really make a party that just meets the DPS check , there are so many variables during the fight like buffs, time spent dodging, deaths, priest knowing when to use holy symbol/smiting aura, knight timing their shields during lasers , knowing when to grab before he jumps etc... that will make w/e numbers people get on the dummy nothing close to what they get during the fight.

    Everytime our group failed we could easily point obvious mistakes and not once was "cuz bad bonus rolls" (for Cdev).
    OneConfusedMilletian
  • KewkkyKewkky
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    edited 3:25AM December 2, 2018
    The dummy still has a valuable part to play. It may not be a representative of an actual chaos raid, but if you can hit, say, 100m on the dummy after 15 mins, chances are you won't be failing cdev because of DPS, and instead because of being unfamiliar with mechanics. There are things you need to check off on a list; gear and experience are both a part of it. You can't clear a raid if your damage on a dummy is 60m, you'd probably end up doing 40m on average at cdev, including with optimal play, which basically requires the party to do more than average damage to compensate.
    FrostZzOneConfusedMilletian
  • WallSeriesWallSeries
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    BDO has a saying, to kill kutum, u actually need kutum offhand...
  • MidbossMidboss
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    Other people may have mentioned this, but the reason why pugs are so picky is a mix of the follow...
    - Lack of team connection (People who raid as a guild and keep raiding with the same people will have a better understanding and common understanding)
    - Voice chat communications
    - Experience (even with cdev, I do not believe a majority of the pug player base have high enough experience to understand the full raid). This is an extra issue if that pug member is a HG or a Knight, since their roles are extra important to not mess up.
    - Power (By power I am referring to people who just hit 4.5k GS and think they can successfully run cdevs). The basic GS requirement is a misconception, similar to Hard Dungeons, only in chaos raids you can not leverage the weaker power by spending more time per dungeon.

    I think some players may have mentioned this advice above, but honestly the best thing you can do is find a high ranking guild (who would have a sub set of guildies who have fully learned/teaching cdev), and try and join their guild. When the 6th occurs this month, guild caps are increasing, creating a great time to find an open space in higher ranking guilds.

    You can also work from the ground up with a weaker guild, but you will need more patients as chaos raids do require training. Chaos bosses can not be blind rushed, and will require at minimum time for your to learn (and with weaker guilds, the whole guild will need time to learn).
  • thdthd
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    iinferno wrote: »
    Completed Cdev multiple times already, if nobody is dead by the end it can be done with 12-13+ weapons and w/e stats if people know where to stand to DPS the with a few spare minutes left.

    All of the fail runs i've had were because by the last phase 3/4 people were dead both with weapons +15 and without them.
    I guess they ask for specific stats because if they fail miserably someone else can make up in damage for them.

    Also try asking somebody or yourself to take spicy noodles from rue shop ( 6% more dmg for all the group )

    This is the correct answer
    Babou
  • Anura_Anura_
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    Nexon cannot fix this problem. What you could try is creating your own party and labelling it "cdev practice" or etc. This should keep the elitists out, at the expense of waiting longer to start.
    But I'm from the Oceania server which doesn't seem to have much of a problem with elitists, so I can't really relate (and I'm effectively barred from chaos raids by intel integrated graphics). In fact, the top guild (desync) is made fun of for being elitist cúnts and selling carries for absolutely ridiculous prices. People also seem to understand what ping is.
    If you want to fight back against the elitists, screenshot the insults they send at you and report them and their little dogs too. Post in world/channel chat that they are a b4 scammer, that will turn many people against them.
  • Predestinat1onPredestinat1on
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    At the current situation, best way to be solution to the problem is form a guild of like-minded individuals, clear raids together and help new players do the same. I can't really think of any other method to get rid of the toxicity up the top, not sure what it's like on other servers but most top guilds on OCE server hides information, refuse to show others how its done and selling runs etc. Devs can't really mod the quality of certain top guilds and players creating and perpetuating this climate. Us players need to be the regulators of that.

    Just make it so successful runs don't even worth a single meso, if only one clearing guild can start regular weekly runs across 10 parties involving the community (100 players clearing per run), the change will be seen very quickly. at least CDev will be worthless over night and in another few weeks, CMoc.

    Just build that 1 guild in the top 20 that isn't Toxic, you'll help improve community and game-climate.
    Me and some of my guildies will be working very hard on this on OCE over the next few weeks.

    Anyways, just destroy their market through and through by having a few new players tag along as you guys clear them, they'll be out of business soon enough.

    Aren't we all sick enough of the current climate? Let's band together and destroy their monopoly, form guilds / guild alliances to do this. There must be other frustrated guilds and guild leaders across your server by now. The very ones that complained the most about P2W are the ones that are making the game P2W, to begin with, they just can't stand people getting ahead of them (P2W often are the ones they lose to), they're not about the community, Nexon ought to give less ear to this player-base too (who are loud and influential), they're in the minority and killing your player-base in MS2 just as much if not, more than Multi-layered-RNG+ Time gate situation.
    OneConfusedMilletian
  • KewkkyKewkky
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    At the current situation, best way to be solution to the problem is form a guild of like-minded individuals, clear raids together and help new players do the same. I can't really think of any other method to get rid of the toxicity up the top, not sure what it's like on other servers but most top guilds on OCE server hides information, refuse to show others how its done and selling runs etc. Devs can't really mod the quality of certain top guilds and players creating and perpetuating this climate. Us players need to be the regulators of that.

    Just make it so successful runs don't even worth a single meso, if only one clearing guild can start regular weekly runs across 10 parties involving the community (100 players clearing per run), the change will be seen very quickly. at least CDev will be worthless over night and in another few weeks, CMoc.

    Just build that 1 guild in the top 20 that isn't Toxic, you'll help improve community and game-climate.
    Me and some of my guildies will be working very hard on this on OCE over the next few weeks.

    Anyways, just destroy their market through and through by having a few new players tag along as you guys clear them, they'll be out of business soon enough.

    Aren't we all sick enough of the current climate? Let's band together and destroy their monopoly, form guilds / guild alliances to do this. There must be other frustrated guilds and guild leaders across your server by now. The very ones that complained the most about P2W are the ones that are making the game P2W, to begin with, they just can't stand people getting ahead of them (P2W often are the ones they lose to), they're not about the community, Nexon ought to give less ear to this player-base too (who are loud and influential), they're in the minority and killing your player-base in MS2 just as much if not, more than Multi-layered-RNG+ Time gate situation.

    That is an impressive rebellion call. Sad to say, not every guild selling runs is doing so because of what you stated. My guild, for example, sells runs because upgrading things just takes such a ridiculous amount of money that there's no other way but selling runs to consistently make a usable income. What other ways are there to earn 150k onyx and 800 chaos onyx in order to get from +10 -> +11 with their legendary weapons in a guaranteed way? For each of my 70+ guild members, even?
    OneConfusedMilletian
  • SlimefaceSlimeface
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    Oldwargoat wrote: »
    most of the meat-heads that want specific stats for Chaos dungeons for each class most of the time don't play those jobs and it is a fact. they are putting an artificial gate and grind in chaos dungeons to make sure the hardest content is just for them. You can try to use stats and numbers to cloud the truth and there are some who see right through the BS and it can be done with other stats. Honestly, don't listen to these players that say you need this stats or that stat because once you get it they will say it's not enough and that is the truth. You do not want anyone who can do it in there. and then when they nerf it you complain about it cause your artificial gate is gone...you folks need to stop this tactic cause if you continue with this ploy of your you are just going to ruin the game for everyone else...

    I told you man, trading in +15 epic for +0 legendary is a MUST for proper progression.
  • ÄrtÄrt
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    Kewkky wrote: »
    Let me play the devil's advocate here...

    1) Cdev has 650m HP.
    - Divided equally between 10 players INCLUDING the priest and the knight, it's 65m per person.
    - Assuming the priest and the knight have to do the same as a DPS when combined (calculating for 9 people), it's 72.2m per person.
    - Assuming neither will be pulling their weight (calculating for 8 people), it's 81.25m per person.

    Cdev looks like this in reality

    1 guy 200m +
    2 guy 200m +
    3 guy 200m +
    4 guy does nothing
    5 guy went afk
    6 guy got dc
    7 guy clears hads, sometimes
    8 guy priest healing, unless hes out of spirit, which hes out of 80% of the time
    9 guy busy complainig about not being healed whole time
    10 knight
  • facefacefaceface
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 1,605
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    Slimeface wrote: »
    Oldwargoat wrote: »
    most of the meat-heads that want specific stats for Chaos dungeons for each class most of the time don't play those jobs and it is a fact. they are putting an artificial gate and grind in chaos dungeons to make sure the hardest content is just for them. You can try to use stats and numbers to cloud the truth and there are some who see right through the BS and it can be done with other stats. Honestly, don't listen to these players that say you need this stats or that stat because once you get it they will say it's not enough and that is the truth. You do not want anyone who can do it in there. and then when they nerf it you complain about it cause your artificial gate is gone...you folks need to stop this tactic cause if you continue with this ploy of your you are just going to ruin the game for everyone else...

    I told you man, trading in +15 epic for +0 legendary is a MUST for proper progression.

    which you idiots don't realize you actually lose damage from that swap without proper amount of bonus att.
  • facefacefaceface
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    edited 10:30AM February 7, 2019
    Ärt wrote: »
    Kewkky wrote: »
    Let me play the devil's advocate here...

    1) Cdev has 650m HP.
    - Divided equally between 10 players INCLUDING the priest and the knight, it's 65m per person.
    - Assuming the priest and the knight have to do the same as a DPS when combined (calculating for 9 people), it's 72.2m per person.
    - Assuming neither will be pulling their weight (calculating for 8 people), it's 81.25m per person.

    Cdev looks like this in reality

    1 guy 200m +
    2 guy 200m +
    3 guy 200m +
    4 guy does nothing
    5 guy went afk
    6 guy got dc
    7 guy clears hads, sometimes
    8 guy priest healing, unless hes out of spirit, which hes out of 80% of the time
    9 guy busy complainig about not being healed whole time
    10 knight

    1 guy 200m +
    2 guy 200m +
    3 guy 200m +, has to clear ads for 7 omegalul
    4 guy dead
    5 guy dead
    6 guy dead
    7 guy clears ads, none of the time, and dead
    8 guy priest healing, unless hes out of spirit, which hes out of 80% of the time
    9 guy busy complainig about not being healed whole time, and dies
    10 knight

    and not sure y 4,5,6,7,8,9 isn't kicked 99percent of the time and adds more cancer into pugs. Guess what happen when ppl like me host pugs? we raise the standard. The elitism and toxicity is players own fault, when morons don't bother to be prepared and just expect to get carried every run.

    You can kick people mid run when they are at the afk status directly, if not vote kick will do, but honestly vk takes too much vote as one person has to vote no to move the vote window down. VK should only be calculated on majority of the players alive, and dead ppl shouldn't be able to have their saying on this, idk why vk isn't like this already, but definition of nexon is a bunch of morons sitting down their american fat as.ses drinking starbucks.
    HaliG4Titan
  • G4TitanG4Titan
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 490
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    faceface wrote: »
    Ärt wrote: »
    Kewkky wrote: »
    Let me play the devil's advocate here...

    1) Cdev has 650m HP.
    - Divided equally between 10 players INCLUDING the priest and the knight, it's 65m per person.
    - Assuming the priest and the knight have to do the same as a DPS when combined (calculating for 9 people), it's 72.2m per person.
    - Assuming neither will be pulling their weight (calculating for 8 people), it's 81.25m per person.

    Cdev looks like this in reality

    1 guy 200m +
    2 guy 200m +
    3 guy 200m +
    4 guy does nothing
    5 guy went afk
    6 guy got dc
    7 guy clears hads, sometimes
    8 guy priest healing, unless hes out of spirit, which hes out of 80% of the time
    9 guy busy complainig about not being healed whole time
    10 knight

    1 guy 200m +
    2 guy 200m +
    3 guy 200m +, has to clear ads for 7 omegalul
    4 guy dead
    5 guy dead
    6 guy dead
    7 guy clears ads, none of the time, and dead
    8 guy priest healing, unless hes out of spirit, which hes out of 80% of the time
    9 guy busy complainig about not being healed whole time, and dies
    10 knight

    and not sure y 4,5,6,7,8,9 isn't kicked 99percent of the time and adds more cancer into pugs. Guess what happen when ppl like me host pugs? we raise the standard. The elitism and toxicity is players own fault, when morons don't bother to be prepared and just expect to get carried every run.

    You can kick people mid run when they are at the afk status directly, if not vote kick will do, but honestly vk takes too much vote as one person has to vote no to move the vote window down. VK should only be calculated on majority of the players alive, and dead ppl shouldn't be able to have their saying on this, idk why vk isn't like this already, but definition of nexon is a bunch of morons sitting down their american fat as.ses drinking starbucks.

    I cannot agree with you more, ppl that does not work towards the stats required to pull their own weight, or ppl that does not put in the work to learn the raid, should get no sympathy from ppl that did the work and learnt the run. This 'elite=toxic' is ridiculous, work for ur own clear, if u cant deal enough dmg and get kicked, u deserves it.