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I think Ruthless Guile doesn't work

ClouduSanClouduSan
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edited 8:58AM November 5, 2018 in Thief
So just like any thief, I was just playing around with builds, and then noticed that the ruthless guile numbers I see from a lot of skills is MUCH less than it should be.
Those attacks are Somersault Kick,Poison Edge,Surprise Attack and our dash (which are all double handed attacks from what I know, with PE only having it's last few hits double handed).
The way I tested this was film with my phone in slow motion mode and then go slowly over the damage numbers shown, and I also had guile at level 9 so that the additional damage would be exactly 10% of the previous hit per poison stack.
For example I would put both poisons on a dummy and use kick, the kick hit for 85,728 damage yet the 2 additional numbers that came afterwards were 808 and 789. please note that these are NOT my poison damage ticks, because those are much higher.

Another interesting thing I noticed, is that when doing the same test while using Double Slash\Vicious Cuts, the numbers from guile were actually much higher than they should be. I stacked 1 poison on the dummy, hit with Double Slash for 5155 and 4187, yet the guile numbers were 1239 and 1059 which are way over 10%.

Am I missing something ? Did anyone else come across this ?

Comments

  • EcchiOtakuTMEcchiOtakuTM
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    edited 10:25AM November 5, 2018
    Guile is its own set amount based off main hand weapon damage. Multi-hits trigger the guile proc better but it isn't based off the skills used themselves. Each poison vial and poison edge apply their own guile for up to 22% weapon damage per proc.


    That's if I remember.
  • glaphenglaphen
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    edited 10:00AM November 5, 2018
    RG does 11% per poison as up to two different numbers, DS does 49%, so it's around 5x RG, which is the same as your tests, some skills do two handed hits which count both weapon damages so you can double the listed damage as one hit so 254% from SK is actually 508% though half if based off your offhand damage, same for Mind Stealer. VC I believe is 3 hits of off hand, 2 hits of main hand so a stronger offhand is more important, but poison is entirely based off main hand. PE does main hand 104%, off hand 104%, both for 208% but does separate hits, 208% from both in one, 252% from both in one, still only inflicts 5 hits of poison and can do 6 hits of RG. SA is 2 handed for the base damage but poison explosion is main hand only. BD is all double handed.
  • ClouduSanClouduSan
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    Guile is its own set amount based off main hand weapon damage. Multi-hits trigger the guile proc better but it isn't based off the skills used themselves. Each poison vial and poison edge apply their own guile for up to 22% weapon damage per proc.


    That's if I remember.

    If that's really the way it works then why would anyone use it ? wouldn't I be better off using those points somewhere else ? (assuming it only works well if you use VC and double slash a lot)
  • EcchiOtakuTMEcchiOtakuTM
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    Blade Dance can use it decently since it's a triple hit and base poison edge as well(ex only the first hit triggers it from memory).

    I wouldn't really recommend it on a surprise attack focus personally cause only the first hit of surprise attack triggers it not the poison burst afterwards from what's been told. That being said sadly somersault can interrupt surprise attack so it's not a foolproof answer to put the final points in.

    You'd have to ask surprise attack users why they would use it over putting the points elsewhere like 6-7 into mesoguard plus, but not me.
  • glaphenglaphen
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    edited 11:43AM November 5, 2018
    ClouduSan wrote: »
    Guile is its own set amount based off main hand weapon damage. Multi-hits trigger the guile proc better but it isn't based off the skills used themselves. Each poison vial and poison edge apply their own guile for up to 22% weapon damage per proc.


    That's if I remember.

    If that's really the way it works then why would anyone use it ? wouldn't I be better off using those points somewhere else ? (assuming it only works well if you use VC and double slash a lot)

    Even on the spammed skill it works worst on cunning PE it is still around 8~9% damage boost for 10 points, far better than MGP that gives 6.4%, You spam DS no matter what and RG is a nearly 50% boost in damage on that, over 33% on VC.
  • ClouduSanClouduSan
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    edited 6:36PM November 5, 2018
    glaphen wrote: »
    ClouduSan wrote: »
    Guile is its own set amount based off main hand weapon damage. Multi-hits trigger the guile proc better but it isn't based off the skills used themselves. Each poison vial and poison edge apply their own guile for up to 22% weapon damage per proc.


    That's if I remember.

    If that's really the way it works then why would anyone use it ? wouldn't I be better off using those points somewhere else ? (assuming it only works well if you use VC and double slash a lot)

    Even on the spammed skill it works worst on cunning PE it is still around 8~9% damage boost for 10 points, far better than MGP that gives 6.4%, You spam DS no matter what and RG is a nearly 50% boost in damage on that, over 33% on VC.

    MGP gives 32% increased damage for 12 seconds when used with a cunning proc, not 6.4%.
    I'm using a SA build currently with max kick , so after seeing guile doesn't do much for those two skills I might put these into MGP even though I don't really like the skill.

  • EcchiOtakuTMEcchiOtakuTM
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    Before doing mesoguard I'd suggest haste first. Even for a burst build mesoguard has too horrible of a downtime to uptime ratio. If you have leftover points thereafter dive right into mesoguard.
  • SentineIsSentineIs
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    As a SA build user, I put points into SK not RG. When I use RG I put no points into SA and put it into SK. I prefer burst type builds as bosses move frequently. SA also cost no sp to cast, which is a boon, whereas a RG build is relatively simple to pull off.

  • ClouduSanClouduSan
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    Before doing mesoguard I'd suggest haste first. Even for a burst build mesoguard has too horrible of a downtime to uptime ratio. If you have leftover points thereafter dive right into mesoguard.

    I feel so weak without haste, its pretty much a must imo.
    This is my build if anyone is wondering https://arrowvulcan.github.io/MS2-Skill-Calculator/skills.html#8-10-6-0-10-6-0-0-1-0-0-0-1-0-10-1-0-0-1-0-5-3-10-0-6
    SentineIs wrote: »
    As a SA build user, I put points into SK not RG. When I use RG I put no points into SA and put it into SK. I prefer burst type builds as bosses move frequently. SA also cost no sp to cast, which is a boon, whereas a RG build is relatively simple to pull off.

    You can use both SK and SA maxed like in my build