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Build variation - 35-39k dps in FD

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  • MareSEphemeralMareSEphemeral
    Maplestory 2 Rep: 3,205
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    edited 11:45PM November 4, 2018
    Basically out of 68 points they're all exclusively put in Double Slash, Poison Edge, Poison Vial, Surprise Attack, Ruthless Guile, and Haste. No cunning tactics nor quickstep? While the gameplay I did was fight against the CD timer to reapply poisons.

    Seems really luck base hoping you get cunning for edge this way under strict timeline, unless there's extra skill points I don't know about. After testing it for quite some time, I'm not seeing it outbeat vicious guile. This build's high point is 80k dps every surprise attack, consistent 76-77k dps; vs vicious guile 82-83k with occasional 84k spikes. And because I'm not use to it there are some really god awful low points for surprise attack focus, but I've not seen anything about worth some big hullabaloo of best build 2018.

    As for the alternate gameplay of waiting until all 5 stacks+Vial are on the target waiting about to run out I didn't bother with that method because if that's the case I wouldn't bother using it at all. That's essentially a worse diablo 3 witch doctor's gameplay. I've played that character way too much to like that playstyle anymore. Spamming it every time it's up like somersault but trying to apply poisons between each surprise attack is pretty entertaining, would definitely make another skill page for it although definitely going to opt to free up 2 skill points next time used.

    Problem with testing PE builds on dummies is that you need to move on PE's last hit to get optimal damage. PE also has a bit of a wide hitbox so you have to be careful not to hit the other 2 dummies while attacking, or there will be inaccuracies. Not to mention that if you don't position yourself exactly and stay immobile, you're also running the risk of hitting more than 1 dummy with vial, which cheats your dps by quite a bit. And if you try to stay immobile to make sure you only ever hit 1 dummy, you're not actually hitting optimal damage with PE.

    And you do have to wait until poisons are about to run out before throwing it out. You're missing out on a lot of damage from poison ticks if you just SA off cd. This is a bit of a problem because SA cd is so much shorter than poison durations, so whether you SA off cd or SA right before poisons run out, you miss out on a lot of potential damage either way. You'll also see some big spikes with a max SA build before it goes back down. Vicious guile is a bit more consistent but can also have some nice spikes if you get lucky with multiple cunning procs.
  • EcchiOtakuTMEcchiOtakuTM
    Maplestory 2 Rep: 1,065
    Posts: 99
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    edited 8:57AM November 5, 2018
    Problem with testing PE builds on dummies is that you need to move on PE's last hit to get optimal damage. PE also has a bit of a wide hitbox so you have to be careful not to hit the other 2 dummies while attacking, or there will be inaccuracies. Not to mention that if you don't position yourself exactly and stay immobile, you're also running the risk of hitting more than 1 dummy with vial, which cheats your dps by quite a bit. And if you try to stay immobile to make sure you only ever hit 1 dummy, you're not actually hitting optimal damage with PE.

    And you do have to wait until poisons are about to run out before throwing it out. You're missing out on a lot of damage from poison ticks if you just SA off cd. This is a bit of a problem because SA cd is so much shorter than poison durations, so whether you SA off cd or SA right before poisons run out, you miss out on a lot of potential damage either way. You'll also see some big spikes with a max SA build before it goes back down. Vicious guile is a bit more consistent but can also have some nice spikes if you get lucky with multiple cunning procs.

    There isn't any issues with testing full poison edge combo for me, there's a spot where you won't hit the other two while doing the full poison edge consistently(Found it from prior poison edge build testing). And again if what he's saying is based off the pseudo witch doctor gameplay then that fully turns me away from using it. Suggesting a build isn't about "None of you can outdo me" It's "This is how to do this build and it's just as good if not better to do because". If I'm testing a lack of detail advice and not noticing anything ridiculously over anything else how is it the best? Another thing based on his wording if taken to the extreme, he's basically saying it doesn't work unless you have a 15+ weapon since apparently at that point is where the build matters. Turning away anyone with anything less from trying it.

    You aren't the one who claimed it was but he was. He lacked detailed rotation or at least when to use certain skills, which led to someone who's use to but dislikes that witch doctor playstyle to find a random playstyle. If there's any macros used. Reasons why he skipped out on 2 specific moves, which is important because it might even hint other builds could skip out on them. If any specific curio skills are used(Albeit apparently noone uses curio skills weirdly even though they're so good noone really talks about them). Any other bonuses for using it, example I had to bring up burst for PvP which might be obvious but when you're suggesting a build you need to get basic on certain extra selling points. One other bonus to using it which was failed to be noted, if one doesn't have two exactly the same weapon +'s, attacks which are based off the main hand 2x can outperform things based on both main and off-hand making it a better build until you get both weapons to the same grade.
    There's probably even more issues with such a half-baked explaination but definitely will not use the witch doctor way until he says that's what it is. Until then using the fight against the cd and rng way is more fun and still viable, not to mention awakening would easily help this playstyle a lot.
  • SentineIsSentineIs
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    I love using blade dance in boss fights, lets me avoid so many annoying ass mechanics.
  • UinixUinix
    Maplestory 2 Rep: 875
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    There's been so much variety in opinions in SA vs non-SA builds at this point where it's better to just play what feels better to yourself now. I've read up on 90% of all posts on the thief forums and I remember seeing multiple stat comparisons in SA vs non-SA, where I just believe that non-SA is superior. It was something about how PE scales at max and how hitting off all of them right before times causes poison to refresh which causes instant extra ticks of damage or something. If you want to, you're free to search up all of the details, but I'm just too lazy currently. Also I used to use SA build but non-SA hybrid builds just feel wayyy smoother to me and I've seen a increase in dps (might be just bc I wasn't playing SA to full potential in dngs such as FD where boss is mobile esp in first phase). Again, this is just imho and I just advise you to build whatever you want to.
  • SentineIsSentineIs
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    I am a proponent of RG, non-sa builds but prefer SA builds. No matter what people say, (and some SA elitists) I find SA much easier to pull off in boss fights. PE is incredibly draining on SP, and getting off all 5 hits before the boss moves, and reposition to the best location is very difficult. Not to mentioned not have enough sp making PE risky to do if there are sp draining mechanics in the boss fight.


    On the other hand, SA just needs the stack of each poison to be there. Even if I didn't manage to deliver a full 5 hits of PE, I can still pop it with SA for full damage. With a tactical use of cunning tactics, you can do this consistently before the CD for SA comes back.