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Thief in Korea

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  • NightThiefNightThief
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    Emjae wrote: »
    NightThief wrote: »
    Dude, a lot of the translations that you gave, you mistranslated, not saying that some of them didn't say thief isn't great but only a fraction of them did. First of all Jun Gay, which is the youtubers name never said that the class is weak, he stated that the class is powerful but the reason people say that is because the recent dungeons require multiple bosses, which is obviously thieves down fall, the aren't really great at multiple target DPS.

    There are multiple posts that contradict this claim(that thief isn't viable) and I've had a handful of Korean players tell me that thieves are in no way weak or bad! On the contrary they tell me that thief is a good class!

    Another point that I would like to add is a lot of the posts that you have given are a lot of people complaining about bugs after awakening, and apparently that applies to both skill trees. The second Skill tree is flawed because three is a bug when switching into battle mode because once you step into a certain distance towards the enemy you switch battle stances and that replaces haste. The second skill tree is powerful but lacks certain things that the first skill tree has such has the three stacks of cunning! The bugs will eventually be fixed and resolved, they are still fixing a lot of awakening abilities for balance!

    In no way did Jun Gay claim that "thieves are bad" other wise other classes such as Assassin would suck too right? Because they lack in the AoE appartment compared to lets say HG or even Berserker and RB which are easily the top 3 DPS as of current.

    Cho DM a top RB player had even stated to me that thief is a good class.

    The thing that people need to realize is firstly learn to play a class, just because a class has difficulty doesn't mean it cannot perform. I have been in multiple parties and have dpsed a handful of top dps classes and to be frank with everyone, saying thief is a very difficult class honestly depends on the person. I really don't find it a difficult class at all and am capable of getting S rank in multiple occasions, be it Lubelisk, Beyond, FD or even Balrog with top DPS.
    https://gyazo.com/1b2781fd454eb2b302f4dfd6e0b2c809
    Oh, and yes I've had faster clears than that!

    I admit that I've been kicked out of parties for being a thief, but i'm confident enough to out DPS plenty of people that have kicked me. Screw it, there is even a DPS knight that out performs many players out there currently in the Europe server!

    Really no point putting down a class, especially if you haven't played or even experienced its potential(i'm guessing you're not a thief main).
    Regardless of what anyone says, i'm still going to main it! It's the only class that I've actually played and enjoyed other than Soul Binder anyway, and I can't be bothered to play the Korean server with lag any longer, the UK is way to far to be able to handle that kind of lag!

    Anyway, do what you want, play whatever the heck you want, i'm team #Thief for life, I've played Shadower in MS1, Assassin in Blade and Soul, Ninja in Black Dessert and multiple other close range Assassination class and there no way that false comments will stop me from playing what I enjoy.

    TS, if you're reading this, play what you enjoy, thief does NOT suck, you just need to practice it.


    Tell me which comments that I mistranslated. And link me any discussions where they talk about how good Thieves are in KMS2 because I certainly haven't seen any of them in Inven or the KMS2 forums. Also, I purposely left out the posts complaining about bugs specifically, but they also had complaints about the lack of damage anyway.

    Also, it doesn't matter even if Thieves, a melee class, have a very good ST damage when all the relevant content cater towards classes with good AoE and/or ranged. That still makes Thief weaker than classes with better AoE. That's the very definition and nature of the metagame. Now that doesn't mean that Thieves will be weak forever; Nexon can introduce content that require good ST damage or buff the Thief class directly.

    I don't understand this refusal to admitting that Thieves might have issues. If you actually care about the class, you should be actively trying to figure out problems and the solutions to it. For example, to mirror what I said a paragraph before, Thieves having great single target doesn't matter if the relevant content doesn't make a use of it. And we should be having discussions about those kinds of issues to make sure Thieves are relevant. This whole plugging your ears and yelling "we're fine" isn't doing the class any favor nor is it helping the Thief playerbase.

    Having said all that, Thief in GMS2 after the Fair Fight system fix might be a pretty strong class. Take that as you will.

    What i'm saying is some quotes you said, you made it sound worse than how they actually said it.

    Now don't get the wrong idea, I do strongly believe that we should get buffed but putting a class down and advising everyone to not play the class is the worse way of handling everything.

    I've been kicked out of parties multiple times for playing thief and i'm sure as hell I can out dps those guys who seem to claim that thief can not out put any dps or are "useless in parties" and i'm assuming you're one of them?

    Thief is not as bad as people make them out to be, of course we don't have the ease of other classes such as Berserker or even Assassin but thieves are not meant to be easy. Although we may be lacking in certain departments and could use a decent buff, we are far from "useless"!
  • EmjaeEmjae
    Maplestory 2 Rep: 330
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    edited 8:30AM November 3, 2018
    NightThief wrote: »
    What i'm saying is some quotes you said, you made it sound worse than how they actually said it.

    Now don't get the wrong idea, I do strongly believe that we should get buffed but putting a class down and advising everyone to not play the class is the worse way of handling everything.

    I've been kicked out of parties multiple times for playing thief and i'm sure as hell I can out dps those guys who seem to claim that thief can not out put any dps or are "useless in parties" and i'm assuming you're one of them?

    Thief is not as bad as people make them out to be, of course we don't have the ease of other classes such as Berserker or even Assassin but thieves are not meant to be easy. Although we may be lacking in certain departments and could use a decent buff, we are far from "useless"!

    Which translations made it sound worse than how they actually said it? It was a direct translation. I didn't exaggerate, add or omit anything.

    And nobody here even remotely suggested that people shouldn't be playing Thieves.

    And let's not kid ourselves; with the Fair Fight system making Haste next to useless, our damage is pretty gimped. And with how much more complex and unforgiving our rotation is compared to other classes, the current payoff isn't that worth it.
    NightThief
  • SentineIsSentineIs
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    TLDR Fairfight screws us over now. After fairfight is nerfed, we get stronger to the point we should be comparable to other classes.

    After awakening, our single target dps becomes great, but our AoE is subpar, and the meta calls for better AoE. Thief still requires a good amount of skill, and is not a bad class at all, but not the best class in the meta due to weaker AoE compared to other classes.

    All I hope for is thieves not ever having to be kicked because they're a thief. Not that thieves become top-tier. The high learning curve and payout just has to be fixed, which fairfight and awakening hopefully will balance a bit more. Outside of that we're all good.
    Emjae
  • EcchiOtakuTMEcchiOtakuTM
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    SentineIs wrote: »
    TLDR Fairfight screws us over now. After fairfight is nerfed, we get stronger to the point we should be comparable to other classes.

    After awakening, our single target dps becomes great, but our AoE is subpar, and the meta calls for better AoE. Thief still requires a good amount of skill, and is not a bad class at all, but not the best class in the meta due to weaker AoE compared to other classes.

    All I hope for is thieves not ever having to be kicked because they're a thief. Not that thieves become top-tier. The high learning curve and payout just has to be fixed, which fairfight and awakening hopefully will balance a bit more. Outside of that we're all good.

    Inb4 the best end game content is chaos rune temple and every member of the raid has to split up and are expected to solo their own boss to complete it.
  • NightThiefNightThief
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    edited 1:19AM November 4, 2018
    Emjae wrote: »
    NightThief wrote: »
    What i'm saying is some quotes you said, you made it sound worse than how they actually said it.

    Now don't get the wrong idea, I do strongly believe that we should get buffed but putting a class down and advising everyone to not play the class is the worse way of handling everything.

    I've been kicked out of parties multiple times for playing thief and i'm sure as hell I can out dps those guys who seem to claim that thief can not out put any dps or are "useless in parties" and i'm assuming you're one of them?

    Thief is not as bad as people make them out to be, of course we don't have the ease of other classes such as Berserker or even Assassin but thieves are not meant to be easy. Although we may be lacking in certain departments and could use a decent buff, we are far from "useless"!

    Which translations made it sound worse than how they actually said it? It was a direct translation. I didn't exaggerate, add or omit anything.

    And nobody here even remotely suggested that people shouldn't be playing Thieves.

    And let's not kid ourselves; with the Fair Fight system making Haste next to useless, our damage is pretty gimped. And with how much more complex and unforgiving our rotation is compared to other classes, the current payoff isn't that worth it.

    I've just read up a lot of stuff and now understand what you're talking about, my bad for over exaggerating xP.

    Even after second job it seems there are isses still there =/, but I will still push my class to the bitter end!

    I heard there might be new skills after the first set of awakening but I'm not 100% certain yet.

    Edit:

    The thing I would like to know is if GMS is allowed to tweak thief and buff them,

    Re-edit

    New skills confirmed in the future for balance purposes and stuff!
  • EmjaeEmjae
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    Inb4 the best end game content is chaos rune temple and every member of the raid has to split up and are expected to solo their own boss to complete it.

    That's what we should be talking about IMHO. It seems like Thieves are a good ST class after 2nd job but the meta calls for AoE. So should we get an AoE ability or should Nexon incorporate ST mechanics that Thieves can shine so we stay relevant?

    Personally, I think sticking with class fantasy and making Thieves the ST specialist and adding more ST encounters to diversify the meta would be more healthy.

  • EcchiOtakuTMEcchiOtakuTM
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    edited 7:44AM November 4, 2018
    Emjae wrote: »

    Inb4 the best end game content is chaos rune temple and every member of the raid has to split up and are expected to solo their own boss to complete it.

    That's what we should be talking about IMHO. It seems like Thieves are a good ST class after 2nd job but the meta calls for AoE. So should we get an AoE ability or should Nexon incorporate ST mechanics that Thieves can shine so we stay relevant?

    Personally, I think sticking with class fantasy and making Thieves the ST specialist and adding more ST encounters to diversify the meta would be more healthy.


    It's not really hard to make thieve fit the meta without destroying what makes them, themselves:

    Make poison guile trigger in a 1m AoE. Like gas procs in warframe.

    And for poisons make a plague passive where the poisons(Only 1 stack of each) spread to another nearby target.

    That's if one really wants to force make them apart of the meta. It really isn't difficult, just we don't want to give thieves too much of a jack of all trades before it ends up biting them in the foot hence why I've held off suggesting AoE buffs for thieve just yet.
  • NightThiefNightThief
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    Posts: 56
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    Emjae wrote: »

    Inb4 the best end game content is chaos rune temple and every member of the raid has to split up and are expected to solo their own boss to complete it.

    That's what we should be talking about IMHO. It seems like Thieves are a good ST class after 2nd job but the meta calls for AoE. So should we get an AoE ability or should Nexon incorporate ST mechanics that Thieves can shine so we stay relevant?

    Personally, I think sticking with class fantasy and making Thieves the ST specialist and adding more ST encounters to diversify the meta would be more healthy.


    It's not really hard to make thieve fit the meta without destroying what makes them, themselves:

    Make poison guile trigger in a 1m AoE. Like gas procs in warframe.

    And for poisons make a plague passive where the poisons(Only 1 stack of each) spread to another nearby target.

    That's if one really wants to force make them apart of the meta. It really isn't difficult, just we don't want to give thieves too much of a jack of all trades before it ends up biting them in the foot hence why I've held off suggesting AoE buffs for thieve just yet.

    Honestly, I don't think making 1 skill have a larger AoE radius will really fix their issues

    I feel as though KMS are intentionally making thieves less viable than other classes, especially with the fact that they are making AoE reliant dungeons!

    regardless, maybe the upcoming skills will give us that AoE benefit? Only time will tell...
  • WallSeriesWallSeries
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    SentineIs wrote: »
    Cactrot wrote: »
    SentineIs wrote: »
    What I find perplexing is him saying thieves were strong in first job...are we playing different games? Or is getting uncapped from Fairfight actually going to skyrocket us past some classes? There has been so much theory crafting among thieves with builds that I highly doubt that the Koreans just have a super secret build that no one in GMS was able to figure out, that mysteriously gives them like 10k more dps.

    Fair Fight right now is reducing thief damage by ~21%. The rotation he uses is the one I thought should be the best DPS (minus sudden attack), and I'm pretty sure it's the one yoji used in the 4 minute FD kill party.

    I know its affecting thieves more, but its also affecting other classes. So if thieves are being reduced by ~21%, I'd suppose the other classes, bar other passive dependent classes, are being reduced like 10%. I'm just not sure how that small percentile difference jumps thieves from one of the worst performing to one of the best performing so that KR players think it was great during first job.
    i was testing my dps in hallow dungeon
    double slash with no buff, 59s
    buff hatse, 56s
    buff haste, springer's dagger buff or katvan's horn, 51s
    zerk's dark aura at 10 stacks give ground breaker huge dmg buff without getting nerf by fair fight
    as long as the physical attack in adanvaced stats doesn't surpass a certain number, it won't get nerf by fair fight
    all those % gains from skills and weapon will get affected by fair fight
  • ZantetsukenZantetsuken
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    Ephedrine wrote: »
    Don't quote me on this, but I've heard that Thief has been pretty much the same as it is here. Highest raw DPS, but hard to get it to work well, with it being a melee class, and a tough one at that. I'm pretty sure it hasn't been changed at all minus the sub-class.
    Pretty much this.

    Thief is the skill class. Not for the feint of heart and not for the button mashers. Every fighting game and many RPGs have some technique class that seems dreadfully weak when played by low skill combatants but shines gloriously in the hands of an adept.

    This is how you achieve true balance. The easy to play classes cap out effortlessly but cannot be made to go any further. Meanwhile, the hardest to play class may suffer when poorly utilized but possesses a near unobtainable skill ceiling that only a bot has a hope of reaching. Everything in between is the varying success of the typical highly skilled Thief players. Your mileage will vary and so will your results.
    NightThief