Check out the patch notes for the v17 Precursor Update here: http://maplestory2.nexon.net/en/news/article/53778/precursor-update-v17

Someone made over 200k merits ripping off my work

Comments

  • ElliebirdElliebird
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 940
    Posts: 23
    Member
    edited 5:24PM October 30, 2018
    Staris wrote: »
    Elliebird wrote: »
    (...)

    (...)

    In my post, I made sure to highlight the relevant text in bold, so that people would find it easier and know that those lines of text related to the topic. You can post your opinions, that is absolutely fine, though I do ask that you take note I didn't post my own opinions on the matter- Simply the guidelines and regulations that we are to follow. The fact that these are rules are not up for discussion or debate, regardless of how well Nexon reinforces them. That is not subject to opinion. I'll post the text in bold again:

    You may not upload or post any UGC that infringes the copyright, trademark or other intellectual property rights of a third party.


    To get a better understanding of copyright, I recommend you read this page: https://www.aspectlg.com/posts/copyright-in-characters-what-can-i-use It also talks about trademark on later pages, if you want to skim that. I'll post one of the examples that they used here, in case people don't want to read through the whole thing. The context is referring to what would be considered copyright infringement of a character's design.

    6fc7feac4a08d71a7cc06b73954b084c.png

    Now that the hard info is out of the way, I'll go ahead and say what I personally think, which is that both parties are in the wrong, and both issues are important to address when it comes to UGC. People should not be able to steal other's work... and people should not be able to upload replicas from other media, as the guidelines suggest. The person who sold the 2B outfit should have their merits taken away, and the OP should not get any either. If you want to argue that Nexon don't care about their own guidelines, making it a pointless topic, I could use that logic to say the same about ripping off other people's work. If an issue isn't being addressed, does that mean it shouldn't be addressed? I don't think either of us agree with that, and that is why I want to see both problems solved.

    Edit: The newest State of the Game mentioned something that I think we can all appreciate in regards to this topic. If all goes well, this will make everything clear.

    a00c3dfff8e1fa3610da84f3dadfbd1e.png


  • DochiDochi
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 1,795
    Posts: 61
    Member
    edited 4:35PM November 5, 2018
    4KsyaQz.jpg
    Round 2 Start!

    * don't call this 'witch hunting'. Please. You know by now i am not
  • Sammich88Sammich88
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 1,345
    Posts: 170
    Member
    Just curious, how many merets do you get if your designs get sold?
  • DochiDochi
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 1,795
    Posts: 61
    Member
    Sammich88 wrote: »
    Just curious, how many merets do you get if your designs get sold?

    almost 0 since people buy other people's stuff for like 200k merits, but to answer your question in general, 30% less than posted price
  • KhalykKhalyk
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 2,400
    Posts: 128
    Member
    Zarozian wrote: »
    Ginsama wrote: »
    shadowgun wrote: »
    Dochi wrote: »
    just fyi, most anime/game companies do not strictly regulate their copyright laws unless artists make a ton of money off them. That being said, yes, we do know that sometimes we do get things taken down or asked by the company to take certain images and copyrights down. If you were drawing for a while, you will aslo know that, we know boundaries we should never cross and which companies are more OK with crossing boundaries. For instance, if you draw spiderman or ironman stuff by marvel, you better keep it to yourself, because company will sue you personally. On other hand, some companies don't care much about them at all. In fact, most posters & Arts that you can find online right now on animes/games are not by the game company or licensed by them at all, but artists just using them. They do not get punished for this as long as they do this within reason. Anyone who went to anime or game conventions and bought stuff will know what I mean

    But are you sure you arnt crossing the line by taking another video games design and putting it into this video game where Nexon will make money off it. Gaming companies know not to steal other games designs. Why is it justified just because a player drew it and not Nexon. And again this does not relate to cosplay or any other real life thing because this is a video game. So to sum up the way I see it is video game artists know not to use other games designs so you should no not to as well.

    Oh and the reason those conventions allow it is because 1. alot more of it than you think was approved by the company and 2. in regards to cosplay and fan art they know their fans enjoy it and they dont see the harm of it since its for fun. Plus telling your fans they cant do fan art or cosplay would probably upset them. But this again is a video game not real life.

    How does Second life stay open? I'll wait.

    We need to shut down that furry infested cringe fest freak nest once and for all. All those daddy issues running around in that game. We need to kill it with fire before they start to fornicate and crap all over the place! >;O

    You seem to know alot about what goes on there... Odd...
    CelestialKitsuneEino
  • ZarozianZarozian
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 3,520
    Posts: 421
    Member
    Khalyk wrote: »
    Zarozian wrote: »
    Ginsama wrote: »
    shadowgun wrote: »
    Dochi wrote: »
    just fyi, most anime/game companies do not strictly regulate their copyright laws unless artists make a ton of money off them. That being said, yes, we do know that sometimes we do get things taken down or asked by the company to take certain images and copyrights down. If you were drawing for a while, you will aslo know that, we know boundaries we should never cross and which companies are more OK with crossing boundaries. For instance, if you draw spiderman or ironman stuff by marvel, you better keep it to yourself, because company will sue you personally. On other hand, some companies don't care much about them at all. In fact, most posters & Arts that you can find online right now on animes/games are not by the game company or licensed by them at all, but artists just using them. They do not get punished for this as long as they do this within reason. Anyone who went to anime or game conventions and bought stuff will know what I mean

    But are you sure you arnt crossing the line by taking another video games design and putting it into this video game where Nexon will make money off it. Gaming companies know not to steal other games designs. Why is it justified just because a player drew it and not Nexon. And again this does not relate to cosplay or any other real life thing because this is a video game. So to sum up the way I see it is video game artists know not to use other games designs so you should no not to as well.

    Oh and the reason those conventions allow it is because 1. alot more of it than you think was approved by the company and 2. in regards to cosplay and fan art they know their fans enjoy it and they dont see the harm of it since its for fun. Plus telling your fans they cant do fan art or cosplay would probably upset them. But this again is a video game not real life.

    How does Second life stay open? I'll wait.

    We need to shut down that furry infested cringe fest freak nest once and for all. All those daddy issues running around in that game. We need to kill it with fire before they start to fornicate and crap all over the place! >;O

    You seem to know alot about what goes on there... Odd...

    I used to date a girl who drew a lot and had daddy issues and she tried to get me into it, but after seeing what I saw at Comicon of that year. I was like “Oh hell naw....”. Then we argued about it and I left like how her father did. o -o

    They all have very similar problems. I have been through many walks in life to know what goes on in different communities. My life story would be extremely interesting.

    I also lead a server of 1000+ people and I am bound to have some transgender furry as one of my members and we would talk about it....or not. Lmao. I also do counseling and therapy if you are interested but I also do politics too. ;D

    Come if you have any questions at all: https://discord.gg/UwjcWTt

    ;D
    DanteYoda
  • AnOldGeezerAnOldGeezer
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 3,740
    Posts: 354
    Member
    I swear ur not allowed to even publish copyrighted work on the shop, anyway?
  • ReziRezi
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 1,465
    Posts: 100
    Member
    Elliebird wrote: »
    UGC submitted or uploaded to Maplestory 2 does not qualify as personal or non-profit use.

    While technically true, it's also technically false. What this rule is probably referring to is uploading it to the cash shop. If you trade the design for 0 or use it yourself, it's under fair use. But if you sell it for merets - which is an alt currency that replaces real currency - then it's a problem. I don't even think selling a design for mesos would be infringement, but that's more grey.

    In any case, selling someone else's design on the meret shop breaks the rules, period. I really wish we could trade these designs more easily without the meret shop, but y'know... :/
    LittlePixieGreta
  • AnOldGeezerAnOldGeezer
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 3,740
    Posts: 354
    Member
    Bluclue wrote: »
    I condone both (branding and such in particular) but not cosplay and such since its a touchy issue. However, while copyrighted material has seen regulation with numerous incidents of copyrighted outfits being taken down and has been discussed extensively in the past, the issue of ripped outfits has not. Additionally, i believe the focus of this thread is not about copyright but rather ripped outfits. If you feel so strongly about copyright that you want to bring it up, you should create a separate post.

    I think the problem is ripping is technically a copyright issue. And also the title of the topic is "Someone made over 200k merits ripping off my work" ... which by itself would be a bit controversial if the work isn't even their own, to begin with. So I can understand why it would be brought up.|

    Anyway, that is the last thing I will post on this matter. It is what it is. This issue has been around since the beta essentially and they still really haven't clarified exactly what is and isn't allowed. Plus, with their track record of actually taking things down, it makes it even worse. It's entirely up in the air. It almost seems like copyrighted material is ok to use as long as you don't use the name, which to me is just wrong, but whatever.
    A bit off topic, but have I ever told u I love you <3 <3
    MarchinBunny for top GM!
  • kooterkooter
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 420
    Posts: 3
    Member
    kooter wrote: »
    TV-production worker here so I've had to deal with copyright issues quite a few times.
    You don't have copyright to this work because it's copyright infraction of tier automata artists work (and because he works for the game company I guess rights belong to them) . You can make your own cosplay or art or whatever you want with original artwork for your own use but can't sell this on UGC from copyright perspective.

    UGC submitted or uploaded to MapleStory 2 does not qualify as personal or non-profit use.

    You admit that it's 2b from the game so you can't argue that it has "striking similarity" by accident but you have purposefully copied it.
    If artwork is unique enough, just being even close to original design means that you violate copyright, which is why every red and blue spidery character is copyright violation of spiderman. Doesn't matter if it looks like spiderman or not.

    You could sell this version of copyrighted work with permission from copyright holder but I doubt that you've asked them and I doubt that they would allow it (as much as they encourage their fans to cosplay). If you sell copyrighted material original copyright holder has the right to get all the monetary gains you make from your violation and usually you have to pay damages as well.

    So you can moan as much as you like about thieves but the fact is that you don't have any kind of copyright to this image, anyone can use it however they want to and if they get it trouble, they would be in trouble with the company that designed 2b, not you.


    Absolutely wrong, by nexons rules aslong as the UGC name or tags / image doesn't have logos or copyrighted names you can use cosplay.
    So he does own his UGC.

    Thank you for participating but, nexons ugc shop doesn't overrule national copyright law.

    Cosplay is fair use when you make yourself spiderman costume and it becomes copyright infringement the moment that you sell it.
    Prove me wrong.

    Many western countries have similar copyright laws so here's something from US COPYRIGHT LAW.

    Copyright in Derivative
    Works and Compilations
    A derivative work is a work based on or derived from one or more already exist-
    ing works.
    Common derivative works include translations, musical arrange-
    ments, motion picture versions of literary material or plays, art reproductions,
    abridgments, and condensations of preexisting works.

    ........

    Only the owner of copyright in a work has the right to pre-
    pare, or to authorize someone else to create, an adaptation of
    that work.
    The owner of a copyright is generally the author
    or someone who has obtained the exclusive rights from the
    author. In any case where a copyrighted work is used without
    the permission of the copyright owner, copyright protection
    will not extend to any part of the work in which such mate-
    rial has been used unlawfully.


    Remove item from every shop and ban op from the shop

    /thread
  • KhalykKhalyk
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 2,400
    Posts: 128
    Member
    kooter wrote: »
    kooter wrote: »
    TV-production worker here so I've had to deal with copyright issues quite a few times.
    You don't have copyright to this work because it's copyright infraction of tier automata artists work (and because he works for the game company I guess rights belong to them) . You can make your own cosplay or art or whatever you want with original artwork for your own use but can't sell this on UGC from copyright perspective.

    UGC submitted or uploaded to MapleStory 2 does not qualify as personal or non-profit use.

    You admit that it's 2b from the game so you can't argue that it has "striking similarity" by accident but you have purposefully copied it.
    If artwork is unique enough, just being even close to original design means that you violate copyright, which is why every red and blue spidery character is copyright violation of spiderman. Doesn't matter if it looks like spiderman or not.

    You could sell this version of copyrighted work with permission from copyright holder but I doubt that you've asked them and I doubt that they would allow it (as much as they encourage their fans to cosplay). If you sell copyrighted material original copyright holder has the right to get all the monetary gains you make from your violation and usually you have to pay damages as well.

    So you can moan as much as you like about thieves but the fact is that you don't have any kind of copyright to this image, anyone can use it however they want to and if they get it trouble, they would be in trouble with the company that designed 2b, not you.


    Absolutely wrong, by nexons rules aslong as the UGC name or tags / image doesn't have logos or copyrighted names you can use cosplay.
    So he does own his UGC.

    Thank you for participating but, nexons ugc shop doesn't overrule national copyright law.

    Cosplay is fair use when you make yourself spiderman costume and it becomes copyright infringement the moment that you sell it.
    Prove me wrong.

    Many western countries have similar copyright laws so here's something from US COPYRIGHT LAW.

    Copyright in Derivative
    Works and Compilations
    A derivative work is a work based on or derived from one or more already exist-
    ing works.
    Common derivative works include translations, musical arrange-
    ments, motion picture versions of literary material or plays, art reproductions,
    abridgments, and condensations of preexisting works.

    ........

    Only the owner of copyright in a work has the right to pre-
    pare, or to authorize someone else to create, an adaptation of
    that work.
    The owner of a copyright is generally the author
    or someone who has obtained the exclusive rights from the
    author. In any case where a copyrighted work is used without
    the permission of the copyright owner, copyright protection
    will not extend to any part of the work in which such mate-
    rial has been used unlawfully.


    Remove item from every shop and ban op from the shop

    /thread

    Also a very interesting part of Nexon's expanded UGC policy(You have to actually click the link on the UGC rules page "for additional details" there is this gem.

    In exchange for use of our interactive services, and to the extent that your contributions through use of our interactive services give rise to any copyright interest, you hereby grant Nexon an exclusive, perpetual, irrevocable, fully transferable and sub-licensable worldwide right and license to use your contributions in any way and for any purpose in connection with the Software and related goods and services, including the rights to reproduce, copy, adapt, modify, perform, display, publish, broadcast, transmit, or otherwise communicate to the public by any means whether now known or unknown and distribute your contributions without any further notice or compensation to you of any kind for the whole duration of protection granted to intellectual property rights by applicable laws and international conventions. To the extent permitted by applicable law, you hereby waive any moral rights of paternity, publication, reputation, or attribution with respect to Nexon's and other players' use and enjoyment of such assets in connection with the Game and related goods and services under applicable law. The license grant to Nexon, and the above waiver of any applicable moral rights, survives any termination or revocation of this Agreement.

    This basically translates into you giving the right of reproducing, licensing, displaying, modifying or publishing your work in any way they deem fit while also giving up while also waiving your moral right to paternity(Which is the right to even be recognized as the creator of the work). So basically when you upload a UGC into Nexon's game you have completely signed over the IP on it as you have waived your right to be even recognized as the creator while also giving Nexon full rights of distribution, reproduction, and licensing...
  • DanteYodaDanteYoda
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 970
    Posts: 51
    Member
    Isn't that technically Fraud, which is illegal..
  • GinsamaGinsama
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 1,940
    Posts: 73
    Member
    Dochi wrote: »
    4KsyaQz.jpg
    Round 2 Start!

    * don't call this 'witch hunting'. Please. You know by now i am not
    Uhh, you still put 2b's name in the design, this is why it got taken down again :(
    DanteYoda