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Someone made over 200k merits ripping off my work

Comments

  • supermikysupermiky
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    Maple Guide
    Oh my...This thread really is so long. I might grab a popcorn.
    Greta
  • kooterkooter
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    edited 3:44AM October 25, 2018
    TV-production worker here so I've had to deal with copyright issues quite a few times.
    You don't have copyright to this work because it's copyright infraction of tier automata artists work (and because he works for the game company I guess rights belong to them) . You can make your own cosplay or art or whatever you want with original artwork for your own use but can't sell this on UGC from copyright perspective.

    UGC submitted or uploaded to MapleStory 2 does not qualify as personal or non-profit use.

    You admit that it's 2b from the game so you can't argue that it has "striking similarity" by accident but you have purposefully copied it.
    If artwork is unique enough, just being even close to original design means that you violate copyright, which is why every red and blue spidery character is copyright violation of spiderman. Doesn't matter if it looks like spiderman or not.

    You could sell this version of copyrighted work with permission from copyright holder but I doubt that you've asked them and I doubt that they would allow it (as much as they encourage their fans to cosplay). If you sell copyrighted material original copyright holder has the right to get all the monetary gains you make from your violation and usually you have to pay damages as well.

    So you can moan as much as you like about thieves but the fact is that you don't have any kind of copyright to this image, anyone can use it however they want to and if they get it trouble, they would be in trouble with the company that designed 2b, not you.


    CefalzoMarchinBunnyFloe
  • MarchinBunnyMarchinBunny
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    edited 5:22AM October 25, 2018
    @SyrusMarufuji
    Digital clothing does not fall under clothing copyright. I think it's extremely important to understand that what we are talking about isn't actual clothing. The only reason actual clothing cannot be copyrighted is that it's considered an important essential item. Clothing keeps people warm for example. So it was decided such an important item that is pretty much required shouldn't be allowed to be copyrighted.

    Digital clothing in a video game isn't that. I would argue it would, in fact, fall under textures, not clothing.

    1. Redrawing something is never considered transformative unless significantly drawn differently. If you really think that, I would like you to provide an example in court where this was the case. Transformative typically only applies when the piece is vastly different compared to the original. We are not talking about a size change like what would occur with creating that outfit in MapleStory, that isn't different enough to fall under transformative.

    2. It honestly doesn't matter. Copyright holders are allowed to demand something of theirs be taken down regardless if it's making money or not. If you don't comply they can sue you. It's really not a matter of whether or not this is against copyright, because it is. It's whether or not the copyright holder would bother. They wouldn't. Honestly, the only company I could see bothering is Nintendo.

  • SkyCalleRSkyCalleR
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    Somehow that costume should be removed compleatly since its stolen from the correct 2 B creator, means its a copyright issue and should not be allowed, people forgot what it means with the wording "own creations", will report this costume.
  • SyrusMarufujiSyrusMarufuji
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    edited 5:40AM October 25, 2018
    free real estate meme except the guy is going "It's fair use."

    Like honestly, yall are tasteless. Cons all over America have artist alleys selling fanart with no legal issues but you wanna call them thieves. Ok.
  • ArjuneArjune
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    edited 7:28AM October 25, 2018
    IMO you should try changing details on the dress to make it not get copywrite flagged. for instance, just make the pattern around the edges different, and the insignia on the chest... maybe even make it a slightly different color. Make it into a parody outfit maybe. You've got cartoons that can get away with parody things because they make them different enough and change the names.... Kids Next Door for instance... this is obviously a parody of Wolverine:

    latest?cb=20170819052653

    So tweak the outfit enough for it to be 'different' ... even if it might mean you make a few less sales. also don't call it 2B or even 2bee. Try 3A or something. people would still get the idea
  • CryoGXCryoGX
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    edited 8:59AM October 25, 2018
    Aiight this thread's pretty long so I'll try to hit the main things I saw, aside from the fact this thread probably could've died 5 pages ago.

    1.) Profiting off art theft is skeezy. Big if true.
    -Ignoring specifically what it is for this point, OP has a very clear point and reason to be upset at having their art stolen. Regardless of what you make, the possibility of having it stolen, even from other servers makes it incredibly demoralizing to try to make something, period. IMO duplicates and theft should be as high priority as copyrighted and sexual content. Why make anything if it's all liable to be taken from you and be eclipsed in profits? Sure the artist has fun but there's no point in sharing a creation that people will simply take from them and profit off of. Regardless of all the other underlying issues, I feel this is the biggest demotivator to keep someone from contributing content, and regardless of it that's actually the case, it's not a good look for any medium of user creations.

    -Now, taking OP's creation into account, "wouldn't this essentially be the same thing?" Read the title of the below point. Ironically people have a subjective definition of art theft, too, making it a gray area until legality is brought in. Generally, less people care when someone makes art of a well established IP, because the IP is common knowledge and there's no way the fanartist could reasonably compete with them or take credit for the design. Does that mean creating an explicit replica of an outfit's fine to sell? Does that mean you have a defense in the worst case? Read the below point.

    2.) IMO: Parody is fine, copyright isn't, but even still, fanart in practice is a gray area from all angles.
    -I'll admit I don't have an industry perspective, but I do have one as an online artist. Again, anything that is explicitly of IPs is illegal to profit off of in any way. The holder has the right to take action against you for trying to do so. However, regardless of this, you've got events with sold merchandise, or online stores that contain fan creations for sale. Some IP holders act against this (ESPECIALLY if they're lesser known, as their IP could effectively be associated with the seller), but many others simply don't. Some are relatively okay with this as long as it doesn't directly try to conflict with the original medium (I.e. DMCA'ing a for-profit fangame vs "allowing" prints to be sold of same game character). I generally don't think people care about parody, or references to their IP though.

    What's my point in saying all of this? There are many practices that could be legally acted against that simply aren't. That doesn't give us a defense as artists, it just gives us wiggle room. Don't conflate the two in the situation an IP holder actually takes action against you for fanart; they have the right in that scenario. Nintendo murders entire free fan-projects in the bat of an eye and there's nothing the creators can do about it; don't ever think any fan creation is inherently safe or that you have a defense against a legal scenario.

    The 2B skin could be flagged for copyright, but it is not an explicit asset made anywhere. With an adjustment or two the argument that it's just parody would be infinitely stronger as you've now transformed the reference. And even despite the position the art is in, Yoko Taro himself is so chaotic that he specifically doesn't seem like he'd care either way, in this case. That still doesn't change the fact that it's still pretty much 2B, though, so if they were to take action there'd be little defense. However, IMHO, it is still miles ahead of directly stealing assets like a ton of junk that is currently on the UGC Market.

    I'm fine with your creation being sold (by specifically you since you made it), personally, but there'd be no way for me to reasonably defend it or you if it were taken down in its current state.


    TL;DR - Can ya'll stop stealing and profiting off people's stuff? Makes me not want to bother making anything. Second, for-profit fanart doesn't actually have a defense. It's not that people have the right to do it, it's that action simply isn't taken against them where it could be in most every situation you see it survive without punishment.
    MarchinBunnyDochiaayamid
  • Cerulean627Cerulean627
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    Honestly, with what seems to be a slew of UGC violations, I could easily see Nexon making a review process before any UGC is published to the meret shop. Note that this probably won't apply if you just design the thing, only if you try to post it to the shop.
    CryoGX
  • CryoGXCryoGX
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    Honestly, with what seems to be a slew of UGC violations, I could easily see Nexon making a review process before any UGC is published to the meret shop. Note that this probably won't apply if you just design the thing, only if you try to post it to the shop.

    IMO that's what should've been done to start with. Not only does the current open floodgates system enable literally everything to flow in, but it enables it at a rate that Nexon themselves probably can't control due to sheer volume.

    I wouldn't be surprised if they shut down UGC submissions temporarily to allow them to catch up on their current reports, because trolls will continue adding more trash or dupes for every one that's deleted until they finally sort through their current pile.

  • MarchinBunnyMarchinBunny
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    free real estate meme except the guy is going "It's fair use."

    Like honestly, yall are tasteless. Cons all over America have artist alleys selling fanart with no legal issues but you wanna call them thieves. Ok.

    Believe it or not, there is a lot of issues behind the scenes when it comes to selling fan art even at cons. Pretty sure there have even been some cons that decided to restrict it.

  • DochiDochi
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    free real estate meme except the guy is going "It's fair use."

    Like honestly, yall are tasteless. Cons all over America have artist alleys selling fanart with no legal issues but you wanna call them thieves. Ok.

    Believe it or not, there is a lot of issues behind the scenes when it comes to selling fan art even at cons. Pretty sure there have even been some cons that decided to restrict it.

    usually, if you try to sell art in cons, you are required to sell certain % of vendors's goods with copyrighted goods. Its from last time I attended was 80% of them can be your work but 20% has to be officially licensed product.

    Some vendors do get restricted if they do not follow these rules. Also, if they have copyright- sensitive company's cosplay, art, etc that is being sold, usually yes, as you said, their vendors are taken down. The biggest of them would be disney and marvel. Been to any cons and if I find a Avengers Art or Mickey mouse i'll be shocked.
    MarchinBunny
  • Meso_ManMeso_Man
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    I think this is hilarious because you ripped off Yoko Taro's work and made profit, but now someone else is doing it to you. Lol.
    Floe
  • idontreallyknowmanidontreallyknowman
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    shadowgun wrote: »
    Dochi wrote: »
    shadowgun wrote: »
    63a7068681229029af297101e893cacf.jpg

    Fan Art - by Takumi Oniki used this photo because i cant get an original to work but its the same outfit

    Lol you just proved yourself maybe you should learn how this works better before saying 'you're a thief too'.

    Takumi Oniki is a thief too? You clearly do not understand what it means for content creators on what it means to get your work stolen.

    your joking right its fan art he isnt making anything from it. And i only said his name since i didnt draw it. Your complaining about a design that would be used to make money for nexon which is clearly stolen from another video game. So no what you did is not ok and is against the ToS. What annoys me more is you keep calling it your work. Its not you work its an artists from PlatinumGames work.

    It is his work as long as there are NO Logos or no character names on it. Period. Read the rules.
  • zlOwOlzzlOwOlz
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    FeverJaws wrote: »
    Dochi wrote: »
    Hello! I am better known as Aiorol in Korean Server, but in NA East server I go by name AsunaYuuki. (yeah I'm a sao fan)

    I did not realize till now since I was trying to post up some of my templates that I already created one by one, and I found out that someone was somehow ( I NEVER GAVE IT) to anyone and he made over 200k merits over the market store.

    I HAVE NO IDEA HOW and the fact that they are a best seller in whole NA East server is not acceptable.

    This is one example but he ripped off EVERY SINGLE THING he sold

    -redacted Screenshots-

    yes, they are exactly the same.

    https://m.blog.naver.com/PostView.nhn?blogId=rkghkskfk&logNo=221319114788&categoryNo=0&proxyReferer=&proxyReferer=https://www.google.com/

    This is a post made before the sale in Korean Server.

    I also see millions of artwork that is being ripped off from other people and being sold, and see people making a profit off them, and I reported hundreds of them and see them not being taken off when they are being sold like hot cakes.

    I really hope nexon takes this issues seriously since whenever I have time(Im around 5k gear score and in end game content stage) I am making new music or making clothes. Please no
    we are too busy dealing with too much stuff
    > if you have a successful game and need more people, get more people to monitor them.

    Also some people are posting hentai posters in tria and places which never gets taken down. Please take care of these issues... Thanks!


    and how do you know you should have made 200k? which i highly doubt u would. and also that person might have been the first one to make them? do u have any proof that u made it actually? or are you just a troll?

    also korean servers and NA has no relation. if u have it on one server that doesnt matter. its not on NA or Korean server. if either is made for one. but again. if u can't prove its you who made it. then your in bigger trouble.

    also i am not defending people who do Rip off others. but it's hard to find out who actually made it. and also lets be honest you're stealing original conceptions from Nier.

    if your gonna take it to that, might as well take it to music, everything from there is pure copy pasta lol
  • BluclueBluclue
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    I'm looking at east/west and i see established rippers reposting their designs. I guess they were not taken down by nexon after all.
    mewberi
  • DochiDochi
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    Bluclue wrote: »
    I'm looking at east/west and i see established rippers reposting their designs. I guess they were not taken down by nexon after all.

    i am just generally confused on what is their standard on UGC policy. I can tell by the items that that took off my shop that they do not actually look at item designs before tkaing them down.
    mewberi
  • IcoSpawnIcoSpawn
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    hay dochi how can i buy your design :(( really want that 2b and i missed it
  • idontreallyknowmanidontreallyknowman
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    kooter wrote: »
    TV-production worker here so I've had to deal with copyright issues quite a few times.
    You don't have copyright to this work because it's copyright infraction of tier automata artists work (and because he works for the game company I guess rights belong to them) . You can make your own cosplay or art or whatever you want with original artwork for your own use but can't sell this on UGC from copyright perspective.

    UGC submitted or uploaded to MapleStory 2 does not qualify as personal or non-profit use.

    You admit that it's 2b from the game so you can't argue that it has "striking similarity" by accident but you have purposefully copied it.
    If artwork is unique enough, just being even close to original design means that you violate copyright, which is why every red and blue spidery character is copyright violation of spiderman. Doesn't matter if it looks like spiderman or not.

    You could sell this version of copyrighted work with permission from copyright holder but I doubt that you've asked them and I doubt that they would allow it (as much as they encourage their fans to cosplay). If you sell copyrighted material original copyright holder has the right to get all the monetary gains you make from your violation and usually you have to pay damages as well.

    So you can moan as much as you like about thieves but the fact is that you don't have any kind of copyright to this image, anyone can use it however they want to and if they get it trouble, they would be in trouble with the company that designed 2b, not you.


    Absolutely wrong, by nexons rules aslong as the UGC name or tags / image doesn't have logos or copyrighted names you can use cosplay.
    So he does own his UGC.
    SyrusMarufujiRezi
  • ElliebirdElliebird
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    edited 1:42PM October 30, 2018
    kooter wrote: »
    TV-production worker here so I've had to deal with copyright issues quite a few times.
    You don't have copyright to this work because it's copyright infraction of tier automata artists work (and because he works for the game company I guess rights belong to them) . You can make your own cosplay or art or whatever you want with original artwork for your own use but can't sell this on UGC from copyright perspective.

    UGC submitted or uploaded to MapleStory 2 does not qualify as personal or non-profit use.

    You admit that it's 2b from the game so you can't argue that it has "striking similarity" by accident but you have purposefully copied it.
    If artwork is unique enough, just being even close to original design means that you violate copyright, which is why every red and blue spidery character is copyright violation of spiderman. Doesn't matter if it looks like spiderman or not.

    You could sell this version of copyrighted work with permission from copyright holder but I doubt that you've asked them and I doubt that they would allow it (as much as they encourage their fans to cosplay). If you sell copyrighted material original copyright holder has the right to get all the monetary gains you make from your violation and usually you have to pay damages as well.

    So you can moan as much as you like about thieves but the fact is that you don't have any kind of copyright to this image, anyone can use it however they want to and if they get it trouble, they would be in trouble with the company that designed 2b, not you.


    Absolutely wrong, by nexons rules aslong as the UGC name or tags / image doesn't have logos or copyrighted names you can use cosplay.
    So he does own his UGC.

    Part of Nexon's rules is not to violate copyright, which this UGC does. Link here: http://www.nexon.net/en/legal/user-generated-content-policy/ (Second paragraph)

    Taken directly from the full policy statement: "You must have the legal right to create, upload and distribute UGC in connection with our interactive services. You may not upload or post any UGC that infringes the copyright, trademark or other intellectual property rights of a third party. You may not upload UGC that violates the law, our EULA or Terms of Service and/or any third party's right of privacy or right of publicity."


    Furthermore, when you open up the UGC menu in-game, you get this message:

    -You may only upload and share content that is your own work.
    -You may not use logos or trademarks belonging to someone else in your work.
    -Although some content you may find on the Internet has been designated as available for use in 'derivative works' or 'for personal use,' or 'use for nonprofit purposes,' you may not use this content in your UGC for Maplestory 2 or any Nexon service. UGC submitted or uploaded to Maplestory 2 does not qualify as personal or non-profit use.
    -Do not upload or share the designs or logos of others- even if you have modified the design or logo.
    -While it is fine to be inspired by existing work created by other users, it is not okay to copy someone else's work. Create your own UGC. Be original.
    -You may not describe or tag your UGC with words or language that identifies it as a specific character, trademark or brand name.



    This text will pop up on your screen every time you access the template menu. You have to click "Agree and Start" to access the menu. If you are creating UGC, you are agreeing to follow the terms listed in that popup, and in that link. I know Terms and Services aren't the most exciting things to read, but it is posted there for the benefit of everyone who wants to use the system. These are the rules we have to follow.
  • StarisStaris
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    Elliebird wrote: »
    (...)

    What irks me about this, is that
    a) they still made/drew the template/outfit themselves. It may have been an outfit designed by somebody else, but the person that designed it didn't draw it on MS2 templates which Dochi took.

    b) art is intellectual property, yes, as are designs, but we're talking about clothing in MS2 here. You could very well make an argument, that, because you drew it on MS2 templates and because that's kind of a different thing, since you have to shape the design in a different way to accomodate for the template and such, it's no longer using somebody elses design, but making your own resembling somebody elses. Example: If a character wears a jacket and a shirt and I combine both into a UGC Hoodie template and draw everything myself, is it still copyright infringement? Think about it. It's not as easy as might think. It's still your original work, and now you even have the second layer of having created something new since you combined two pieces of clothing into one single thing.
    It's not something clear cut where you can just say: "This is copyright infringement!!" or "This isn't copyright infringement!!".

    c) It doesn't matter. Dochi made these MS2 templates themself and somebody else ripped them off through illegal means and made profit off of it. Why are we even talking about if the UGC violated Copyright law in the first place, when this is irrelevant to the main topic? Once again, there is no clear answer on if Dochi infringed copyright or not- and it also doesn't and shouldn't matter. If you want to make an argument that naming the clothing "2B clothes" turns it into copyright/trademark infringement, sure, but you can just change the name to literally anything: black frill dress, black dress, black top, black bottoms, whatever you fancy and avoid that argument alltogether. So please, let's focus on the important things here: There are ways to steal other peoples UGC, and this is unacceptable.

    d) as already discussed, nexon clearly doesn't care if your UGC is there to resemble another characters clothing, as long as you drew the UGC yourself. Even more reasons to not continue this pointless discussion.

    SyrusMarufujimewberiSherri