Check out the patch notes for the v17 Precursor Update here: http://maplestory2.nexon.net/en/news/article/53778/precursor-update-v17

Meret Shop Content and Longevity

XxPoseidonxXXxPoseidonxX
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edited 4:08AM August 26, 2018 in Suggestions and Feedback
This post really isn't directed to our players, but to developers and Nexon in general.

I have an issue with the business model of the game. I understand the developers and Nexon catering to F2P players and trying to balance out the game content-wise. However, with so much player UGC, that is often better than what is officially offered in the meret shop... What would be the point of purchasing anything through the meret shop?

Is there anything that this game has left itself able to offer substantially that would encourage players to purchase items continuously from the official shop? I saw badges and some other things in the cbt. However, everything I saw is permanent. Rotor wings are very cheap. Moreover, with Mushking Royale you can get just about anything you want from playing that game mode. We did have some elixers that are very useful in dungeons if they aren't removed due to some P2W complaints.

I was re-reading a thread of someone who wanted to spend $500 / month on this game. They wanted to, intended to, and set the budget aside to, but with all the content that could be taken advantage of due to having this type of budget removed, they don't have anything which to spend their money on. I saw this player as wanting to significantly contribute to MS2's bottom line and success, but left with no options by which to do so.

They will be unhappily keeping their $500/month I assume. So, my question to Nexon and the developers are what options are you offering to players who want to spend their hard earned money and support this game? I feel we've come to the point where all the avoiding P2W has created a precarious balance in MS2 finance-wise. Maybe it hasn't. I just saw this player, and I also am one myself (although I won't spend as much), frustrated over the lack of ability to invest a great amount, monetarily, into MS2.

(Edit: I attached a poll just because, but I am not going to increase the options.)
  1. Do you want to spend money and support MS2?17 votes
    1. Yes, I will support the game in whatever venues they have open for us.
       88% (15 votes)
    2. No, I do not expect to ever spend money on MS2.
       12% (2 votes)

Comments

  • KatsKats
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    Not quite sure what the point of the thread is, but whatever.

    There are those of us who don't like UGC because of the horrendous quality on most of them, this might change with their Design Lab thing however.
    They also have instruments and a wide array of pay for convenience items.

    And also, you do have to purchase the templates.
    SnackCakesDanDKLa3ellebamsoul
  • WarameWarame
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    You need a third option on your thread since some people are willing to spend money on MS2 but will only do so if they stick to their non P2W system.

    Also you have to buy the template for the UGC with real money AND they also profit if the UGC sells a lot because they receive a % of the value.
    SnackCakesDanDKVerloAkuma524La3elle
  • LutiasLutias
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    edited 5:43AM August 26, 2018
    Pretty much what the others said. Buying UGC only instead of things from the meret shop doesn't really affect Nexon because you still have to pay money to get the merets to buy/submit your own designs. In fact, good UGC benefits the company since it attracts players into spending for it. If the employees got paid in merets instead, it might be a problem, but they don't.

    Not to mention how many emotes, instruments, etc people actually buy from the meret shop. A lot of people actually prefer meret shop outfits because they're not flat textures.
    SnackCakesDanDKVerloLa3elle
  • SnackCakesSnackCakes
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    Meret Shop still has really pretty outfits and stuff because of the "templates" of them. With UGC you're restricted to some plain templates. Plus there's also mounts, name tags, chat bubbles, a variety of badges, emotes, and instruments. There will probably also be seasonal cash shop things, too. I'd imagine new content would be added to it every few months or something, so it's not like it'll never update. I think Nexon will do just fine with what they have for sale now and memberships.
  • TaksuiTaksui
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    I think the best way to Nexon "earn money" in MS2 without turning it in a P2W game, like another thousands games, is investing in UGC content and cosmetic stuff! MS2 has a big potential in that area, there are a lot of possibilities and improvable features when the topic is cosmetics.
    I can't even imagine how much can be done with houses, costumes, mounts and so on. And the best thing investing in cosmetics and UGC is the fact that it doesn't unbalance the game, furthermore the game industry shows us that this kind of monetizing is doing great actually (just stop and think about how great F2P games - like League of Legends, Fortnite, Dota - are earning money and keeping their players happy and not frustrated). I think cosmetic content is the best answer to F2P players, supportive players and Nexon.
    AieJoweegaDanDKAkuma524bamsoul
  • XxPoseidonxXXxPoseidonxX
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    edited 9:28AM August 26, 2018
    I love all the responses. It seems like UGC is the way to go.

    One aspect of my question was directed at the non UGC content, someone mentioned instruments and pay for convenience items. The pay for convenience items are consumable or mostly have an expiration date. However, instruments as well as clothing are a single time purchase.

    For instance, when the game launches I will firstly buy all my instruments and a mount. However, after buying those there isn't a necessity to shop in the meret shop again for those types of items. So, then once I am fully equipped with what I need, granted I am not a UGC creator, the only draw to the meret shop are the pay for convenience items. And like I had posted earlier, those items are very cheap.

    Basically, I'm looking towards the players who aren't UGC creators and have already purchased the things they wanted, yet still want to contribute further to the game. Players like the above mentioned who want to spend a ton but have run out of things on which to shop for, and who may not have the time to create UGC.

  • WarameWarame
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    I love all the responses. It seems like UGC is the way to go.

    One aspect of my question was directed at the non UGC content, someone mentioned instruments and pay for convenience items. The pay for convenience items are consumable or mostly have an expiration date. However, instruments as well as clothing are a single time purchase.

    For instance, when the game launches I will firstly buy all my instruments and a mount. However, after buying those there isn't a necessity to shop in the meret shop again for those types of items. So, then once I am fully equipped with what I need, granted I am not a UGC creator, the only draw to the meret shop are the pay for convenience items. And like I had posted earlier, those items are very cheap.

    Basically, I'm looking towards the players who aren't UGC creators and have already purchased the things they wanted, yet still want to contribute further to the game. Players like the above mentioned who want to spend a ton but have run out of things on which to shop for, and who may not have the time to create UGC.

    I think the simple answer is that these rich people won't have much else to buy if they do not want to collect lots of different mounts/outfits/etc.
    However, the game will be able to profit regardless of this minority willing to spend thousands of dollars.
    Also, I wouldn't be sad if there isn't a lot of stuff to buy with real money lol. Even if I were rich. I could just spend it somewhere else.
    DanDK
  • MochaLatteMochaLatte
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    edited 10:42AM August 26, 2018
    KMS2 has random boxes with outfits, emotes, badges, mounts, housing blocks, instruments, damage skins, and more. They're structured so that you likely will not get what you want, so you open a few and sell/trade what you did get for the items you wanted. Whales would be able to open many of them with the goal of collecting the entire set of items, and they're are usually new sets every other month or so. And that's in addition to all the items added normally to the shop.

    item_0823_vs19mb_GIF_02.gif item_0823_vs19mb_GIF_05.gif

    gif05.gif gif3.gif

    Tell me you wouldn't want those... and there are thousands more of similar quality, plus new hairs/faces for all your characters, plus trading merets for mesos to buy gear and upgrade materials for all of them as well. There's PLENTY to buy.
    XxPoseidonxXdrizztelSnackCakesDanDKbamsoul
  • XxPoseidonxXXxPoseidonxX
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    edited 11:03AM August 26, 2018
    MochaLatte wrote: »
    KMS2 has random boxes with outfits, emotes, badges, mounts, housing blocks, instruments, damage skins, and more. They're structured so that you likely will not get what you want, so you open a few and sell/trade what you did get for the items you wanted. Whales would be able to open many of them with the goal of collecting the entire set of items, and they're are usually new sets every other month or so. And that's in addition to all the items added normally to the shop.

    item_0823_vs19mb_GIF_02.gif item_0823_vs19mb_GIF_05.gif

    gif05.gif gif3.gif

    Tell me you wouldn't want those... and there are thousands more of similar quality, plus new hairs/faces for all your characters, plus trading merets for mesos to buy gear and upgrade materials for all of them as well. There's PLENTY to buy.

    I personally don't like gacha, but this above idea is perfect for engaging my suggested type of audience.

    More premium content is always welcomed, imo.
    DanDK
  • ShybzShybz
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    Disagree on gacha. It either caters to the whales who will buy an endless amount of them, or no one. MS1 had a ton of different cosmetics in mystery boxes that I'd have loved to buy if I could have but since it was all RNG-reliant, I spent nothing instead. Mystery boxes have a huge negative reception right now, we're better off without it
    (With one exception: If they adopt the consumer friendly model of guaranteeing at least one of every item before getting dupes, I wouldn't mind it then).
    SnackCakesDanDKLa3elle
  • XxPoseidonxXXxPoseidonxX
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    edited 4:23PM August 26, 2018
    Shybz wrote: »
    Disagree on gacha. [....] MS1 had a ton of different cosmetics in mystery boxes that I'd have loved to buy if I could have but since it was all RNG-reliant, I spent nothing instead.
    [....]
    (With one exception: If they adopt the consumer friendly model of guaranteeing at least one of every item before getting dupes, I wouldn't mind it then).

    This is where I stand as well. Gacha with low rates is predatory marketing.

    We need something though. The way it stands right now is as @Warame said:
    Warame wrote: »
    I think the simple answer is that these rich people won't have much else to buy if they do not want to collect lots of different mounts/outfits/etc. [....] Also, I wouldn't be sad if there isn't a lot of stuff to buy with real money lol. [....] I could just spend it somewhere else.

    Which is the reason I made this thread for Nexon to consider.
  • MidnightNyaMidnightNya
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    edited 5:06PM August 26, 2018
    Hey if it ain't pay2win Nexon can do whatever else they want imo so long as they at least try to keep both the PR and company bank up.

    Cosmetic gacha won't kill me ('tho if Nexon is listening they could consider something similar to the hair gacha and have a pity token system and/or a very slow in-game method of getting them + no permanently limited items) and it's better for whales to show up with swag gear than as opposed to wrek-your-face gear. It's inevitable the fact that whales are a huge profit for game companies so there's gotta be that balance of appeal for us non-whales and the whalers. Yea yea, PR would be better without 'any' gacha but it's a f2p game too so whatev, we're already getting a lot from Nexon on this no-p2w direction I won't ask for too much

    Meret shop items as noted by the others, get unique models generally. Sure someone can try and make a UGC alternate, but it won't have that texture quality - at best an imitated one. Certain stuff like hats and weapons are very uniquely modeled compared to the UGC template coutnerpart.

    Plus, as cosmetics have more or less shown in every game, some peeps like to change out their looks over time and/or change taste. Combine that with the unique model shenanigans of nexon-made cash cosmetics (and also the fact they still earn money from UGC template sales) and it probably won't be an issue for them.

    In regards to 'the rich people but already have their perfect look' well, premium service is still around for that #convenience and there's probably going to be other limited stuff like the cosmetic cash shop pets (see foreign ms2) or the rental npcs in your home. I'm sure they'll find ways to milk 'em without being obviously predatory to everyone else
  • MochaLatteMochaLatte
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    edited 1:32AM August 27, 2018
    To clarify, I wasn't defending or asking for gacha... I personally would prefer it if all items were merely added to the store as individual items and it was left at that. But I was just describing what exists in the Korean version (a crate + key system).

    One key factor that made MS1 gacha different from most other games, is that the mounts and permanent outfits were tradable before use, so getting duplicates or things you didn't want wasn't fully detrimental, you could quite easily recoup most of what you spent by selling for meso or trading for something you didn't have yet. There is little to no english documentation for how it works in KMS2, so I can't defend it specifically. But I CAN say, that I'm fine with gacha if the items a tradable before use or at least for one transaction to another player, but I ABSOLUTELY DO NOT WANT a system that locks all the random rewards to you account leaving you stuck with countless duplicates that you can't utilize, which also means it's impossible for free players to work towards meso to buy a couple things they want from a box opening user (at most they could afford a couple boxes, and likely not get something they wanted, so they'd just not bother at all).

    What tradeable gacha tends to do, is create a market where there are tons of really cheap items available, but the prime items that everyone desires, become more expensive than you'd imagine they'd be listed for individually on the shop. $3 boxes create many items that only sell for ~$0.50-1.50 on the market, making them super affordable for free players, but only whales will be able to get the super amazing mount or whatever that resells for $25 because of the high demand and low drop rate. And without tradeable gacha, somewhat lame items that very few people want end up being priced the same as amazing items, because the creators can't be sure of trends, so the barrier to entry for A outfit becomes a lot higher, and when players are spending that much they aren't likely to pick the meh item that's the same price as a great item, so then there's less variety. Some people even often choose quantity of items to create lots of different outfits, over single more special items. Also if items AREN'T identically priced, you often get mistakes where meh items are priced way too high, where with gacha the community decides on it's own what items are what price, so the meh items fall to the bottom and those who want variety for cheap have plenty of options.

    It's a balancing act. But let me be clear again, NEXON, if you do RNG boxes, you MUST make the contents tradeable between players before use.
    XxPoseidonxXmirta000SnackCakes
  • mirta000mirta000
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    Okay, even if you buy UGC, you are buying NX from nexon to pay for it, Nexon takes a % from the sale (30%), a listing fee, an advertisement fee and a UGC creation fee. I set myself a budget for UGC of only spending 10$ on UGC creation. That's realistically 3 items, 2 if I also want to list them. There's special haircuts that are essentially a lootbox roll of haircuts, you can buy faces and of course, if you want differently shaped clothes, you'll pay Nexon. For mounts you'll pay Nexon, heck if you want to keep many costumes, you'll have to buy inventory space and once again, pay Nexon.

    I'm not opposed to any of this and will likely be spending 20-30-40$ a month in total on Maplestory 2, because that's what I do with games that I actively play. However I don't think that they don't have enough monetization options. :D
    DanDK
  • VerloVerlo
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    edited 12:16PM August 29, 2018
    On a side note. Emotes purchased on the meret shop are character-bound and I extremely dislike this practice
    DanDKDarkpixie99Fantasykitten
  • XxPoseidonxXXxPoseidonxX
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    edited 12:54PM September 4, 2018
    Bringing this to the top now that players better understand the negatives of the UGC market.

    UGC costs to make, and there's no guarantee that it sells. While you can make a profit, every outfit and design charges you. UGC is one of the most creative aspects of MS2 and a very strong draw for players. Nonetheless, the marketing behind this system is potentially unsustainable for players. I am posing the question again, rephrased.

    What would be the draw of continued use of the Meret shop UGC aside? Moreover, granted the cost aspect of UGC has become no longer attractive, what would these players now use the Meret shop for?
  • LutiasLutias
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    If people want clothes (which they definitely do), they will continue to use the UGC system. Just because some items don't sell doesn't mean the entire system is not sustainable. People have, and will pay for outfits, and having many options in the Design Shop only provides more chances that someone will want something and pay for it. Selling UGC is just an additional aspect of Nexon's system in the way that it attracts other customers besides the person who made the outfit themselves. Plenty of people are willing to pay for outfits that they won't even sell because they want it to be unique.

    If someone wants to try and compete in the UGC market, as long as they pay the creation/listing fee, they have the added bonus of potentially making profit, but Nexon still can make money without thousands of players competing on the market. They release new cosmetics occasionally in the shop and also have many other ways to use merets outside of the shop.