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"MapleStory 2 Premiere Recap" by Jungsoo Lee

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  • NyuraNyura
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    Removal of Lumistone (due to potential Pay-to-Win issue)
    Meret revival removal (due to potential Pay-to-Win issue)
    AP/SP removal from Epic quests to Level Up trophy rewards to ensure players can level up in various ways
    Adjustments to EXP from monster hunting and dungeons
    Fishing doesn't give anything Pay-to-Win
    Epic quests will give out enough EXP to continue to the next Epic quest
    None of the vanity outfits will have stats (due to potential Pay-to-Win issue)
    More exploration goals
    And many more
    ..
    .

    Epic quests will give out enough EXP to continue to the next Epic quest

    .....And so, we end exactly how we began. Really? I do not understand, why does Nexon want people to skip the entire game so badly? Who cares if you can get your EXP in 3 ways now, if at the end of the day, you still reach level 50 in 10h, thus rendering 50levels of gameplay obsolete? It doesn't get any less fast from 50 to 60, so don't even attempt to use that as an excuse. Good on you for making AP/SP bound to lvl-up trophies, but that doesn't solve the issue at all. The only thing we got is the illusion of choice on how to speedrun through the game instead of balancing level progression speed and equalizing rewards for different level-up methods.

    Major Improvements - Avoiding Pay-to-Win
    ....They said, as they decided it was a brilliant idea to give people a 9-day headstart in a game where it takes 10-24h to get to 50. Ok Nexon...
    To those excusing this ^ with "b-but it's locked to 50": It doesn't matter. You will still be 1 Hard dungeon and 1 raid ahead of everybody else who didn't buy a pack. Way to segregate the Paying and Non-paying players before the game even launches.
    DanDKBakaAniki
  • DanDKDanDK
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    supermiky wrote: »
    DanDK, I appreciate that you want to complain, but I do not appreciate your sense of humor. You say that attribuite/skill points has been removed, but I can still see the points reward.

    I'm just quoting what Cuddles wrote... read the original post? o_o
    They've been moved around but the result is pretty much the same since leveling gets you the points again. The trophies might not have been updated fully yet since the game hasn't been released.
  • HeroineHeroine
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    edited 4:38AM August 25, 2018
    Nyura wrote: »
    Major Improvements - Avoiding Pay-to-Win
    ....They said, as they decided it was a brilliant idea to give people a 9-day headstart in a game where it takes 10-24h to get to 50. Ok Nexon...
    To those excusing this ^ with "b-but it's locked to 50": It doesn't matter. You will still be 1 Hard dungeon and 1 raid ahead of everybody else who didn't buy a pack. Way to segregate the Paying and Non-paying players before the game even launches.

    According to the trailer video on this news post, there are no Chaos Raids until November. Adding that to the fact that you can't make alts during headstart, the advantage you can gain from it is severely limited, and the difference will be negligible by the time Chaos Raids actually release. I'm aware that this is still an advantage, but unlike the Lumistones and stat-enhanced outfits, the headstart advantage will be non-existent within a couple of months at most.

    Should they have not given such a long headstart, or simply removed it entirely? Sure, but it's too late for that now. Of the potentially p2w methods that remain in game (meso-meret trading and elixirs come to mind), headstart is easily the least concerning.
    mirta000
  • GunPowderGunPowder
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    Heroine wrote: »
    Nyura wrote: »
    Major Improvements - Avoiding Pay-to-Win
    ....They said, as they decided it was a brilliant idea to give people a 9-day headstart in a game where it takes 10-24h to get to 50. Ok Nexon...
    To those excusing this ^ with "b-but it's locked to 50": It doesn't matter. You will still be 1 Hard dungeon and 1 raid ahead of everybody else who didn't buy a pack. Way to segregate the Paying and Non-paying players before the game even launches.

    According to the trailer video on this news post, there are no Chaos Raids until November. Adding that to the fact that you can't make alts during headstart, the advantage you can gain from it is severely limited, and the difference will be negligible by the time Chaos Raids actually release. I'm aware that this is still an advantage, but unlike the Lumistones and stat-enhanced outfits, the headstart advantage will be non-existent within a couple of months at most.

    Should they have not given such a long headstart, or simply removed it entirely? Sure, but it's too late for that now. Of the potentially p2w methods that remain in game (meso-meret trading and elixirs come to mind), headstart is easily the least concerning.

    What makes you say that?
    I don't remember reading founders will be limited to only 1 character during headstart.
  • HeroineHeroine
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    GunPowder wrote: »
    What makes you say that?
    I don't remember reading founders will be limited to only 1 character during headstart.

    It was brought up during the premiere event on one of the streams. I believe I was watching Lionpoke's stream at the time.
    mirta000
  • GunPowderGunPowder
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    @NXACuddles or any of the VFMs - can you confirm if this was discussed during the evnt?
    Heroine wrote: »
    GunPowder wrote: »
    What makes you say that?
    I don't remember reading founders will be limited to only 1 character during headstart.

    It was brought up during the premiere event on one of the streams. I believe I was watching Lionpoke's stream at the time.

  • SixaxisSixaxis
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    edited 10:33AM August 25, 2018
    DanDK wrote: »
    Sixaxis wrote: »
    The meso's to merit system is anything but P2W-- it's close to being the polar opposite of it.

    That's a very one-sided way of thinking. The system is an obvious double-edged sword - while you pointed out all the positives, the obvious negative it that it allows purchases of mesos with Merets, which means that things that would otherwise be obtained with mesos only will be available through paying with cash.

    That negative you stated would have, and always has, existed in nearly every MMORPG since Flyff Online. It was done by people buying Inventory expansions, mounts, costumes, Tokens, etc., from the Cash Shop at the request of someone and then trading it for in-game gold, or just throwing it on the Auction House. This allows players to get Cash Shop items without spending irl cash, and yes, the trade-off is that the in-game gold is now in the Cash Shoppers hands. What I'm basically saying is that this Meret2Gold system, assuming they add it, now exists twice, and I saw no one making a fuss about the first method on these forums.

    If we wanted to get rid of it, we could remove the M2G system and then make all items bought from the Cash Shop untradeable, but doing the latter would cause more harm and uproar than good. People would likely spam threads and bash Nexon saying that removing the ability to buy CS items with In-game gold is a scummy tactic employed to force more players to spend irl cash.

    Thankfully Legendary gear and most high-end Epic gear are untradeable so people can't buy all their gears without even doing the dungeon they come from.

    EDIT: God I hate auto-correct.
  • XxPoseidonxXXxPoseidonxX
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    edited 1:24PM August 25, 2018
    NXACuddles wrote: »
    • AP/SP removal from Epic quests to Level Up trophy rewards to ensure players can level up in various ways
    • Adjustments to EXP from monster hunting and dungeons
    • Epic quests will give out enough EXP to continue to the next Epic quest

    Great job. This is how you revive MS2.

    Edit:
    Reading Dan's post. I agree, but I will have to disagree as well.

    Reason: Forcing players to do the epic quest is not fun.

    How many players did you see farm mobs to level in the cbt? : zero.

    Now we will at least see some.

    Those who are going to rush 50 are going to rush 50 irregardless of the content of the game.

    It's a complaint against an issue that has no resolution and then blaming the developer for not resolving the impossible problem. If you can encourage the population to not rush 50, now 60, as soon as possible to do endgame content, it's welcomed. But I understand, as it's not possible.

    I guess what could be done is drastically lowering the exp gain from the epic quests. That might force people to farm. However, as I understand, Chaos variants of the early game (pre- level 50) content does not exist. So, although people would level slower, there might not be any additional rewards.
    1skander
  • DinnerDinner
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    Why not just make it free instead of removing it -_-
  • JointJoint
    Maplestory 2 Rep: 3,145
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    They want the players to actually play the story line of the game. They never intended this game to be a grind only game like MS1 was about. That's why they don't remove the epic quest exp or nerf it to the ground. They took out the AP/Sp rewards from these quests and put them in trophies instead. Which means you are not really forced to even do the epic quest chain. We don't yet how much they adjusted hunting and dungeon mobs exp so to say that epic quests are still going to be best way to lvl up is false. We need to first see how fast/slow it is for grinding mobs then we can make our decision about it.

    Regarding the 9 day head start if the the things mention about no creating alts, max lvl being stuck at 50, and no rune blader for head start. Then I do not see how this is a huge issue. People are going to rush to "max" lvl regardless of a head start or not. Sure they may be ahead in gear for about a month or so at most but eventually most will be caught up due to the fact the cap is increased at official launch, and you're able to make more than one character. Plus keep in mind if Rune blader isn't released until the 10th and people decide to change there mains by then.

    Then that head start will be basically null since you will need to redo it all again on the other toons. You can't abuse the alts for gear and even they do allow you to create alts during early access it's highly unlikely that all founders will create max alts to cap within the 9 day head start. Only the true hardcore players will do that and those players will be ahead of you no matter what. I think most people who are bent out of shape of this head start are crying over spilled milk too early still.

    The merit revival removal Idk I think they should have just either kept it or made it through mesos capping the revives at 3 or something like that. By removing it all together is just a sure fire way to scare "noobs" out of the game. Meaning a huge amount of eliteness will arise and more players will be stingy on who to accept into there raids. Sure you don't want a "garbage" player in your team but if you don't allow these "garbage" players in your team then how are they going to develop to be a good player? All this is going to do is create a a huge amount of toxicity through out the community and players will "ban" any new players from joining there groups or kick them out of the group. Lastly, keep in mind accidents do happen or the game can go buggy at times. Taking out merit revives can screw someone over big time even if they are a decent player. I personally find this "p2w" feature minuscule to everything else that could be a potential in p2w in the game. Sure make adjustments to it and cap it out after few revives but to remove it all together is just screaming toxicity through out the community.
    1skanderbamsoulXxPoseidonxX
  • paipanloverpaipanlover
    Maplestory 2 Rep: 2,640
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    Will there be a video about the show??

    I dont give a fart about the 9 day headstart. I will try to do everything the game has to offer, except rushing to max level, 50, 60 or 99. Took me 4 days to reach lvl 50 in both closed betas. And I havent explored much, but thats what I will do when the game goes live. I want the whole package, not just the best gear in the fastest time possible.
    bamsoul
  • ZerolioZerolio
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    Axy wrote: »
    HoIy wrote: »
    "Major improvements made, including avoiding Pay-to-Win"

    And 2) yeah it sucks for people that cant afford founders packs to be at a disadvantage to people that can but I dont believe a 10 day advantage in a game that's created to lasts years is gonna be that big of a deal in the grand scheme of things. That's kind of like saying anybody that starts playing after october 10th shouldn't play because they're behind.

    Maybe I'm wrong but that's just how I see it.

    THIS!

    I still can't understand how can people say that starting 10 days after in a MMORPG is pay2win, more players will join after 10/october and like in any other mmorpg that doesn't mean they lost the game -_-"
    mirta0001skanderbamsoul
  • HoIyHoIy
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    If you honestly think this game will last years or even design to last that long you don’t actually play the game. This game has a few week of content at most and it was the main issue with ms2.

    This is why everything in this game is time gated and even then you run out of things to do quickly. When you do your raid/dungeon cap there’s not much to do until your character reach a certain amount of gear score.

    So what do you do then? PvP is something that is actually fun and have high replay value but it’s ruined now with lack of pvp gear and nexon giving 10 day head start when the whole game is gated by weeks.

    To be fair if you can’t make another character then the lead wouldn’t be that bad but to tell your player base you’re avoiding p2w and then adding the head start and many other p2w features is just hilarious to me.

    I’m not discussing how pay to win something is. I’m just pointing out that it’s there. So it’s hard for me to understand when people “can’t understand” how paying to literally win/get advantage is p2w I’m at a lost for words on how else I can explain it to you.
  • MidnightNyaMidnightNya
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    edited 7:24PM August 26, 2018
    I'm surprised people are wanting Meret Revives back, that's like the most direct pay2win / anti-challenge mechanic ever. Isn't the game easy enough at the moment? Take some time to at least try your best first or ask some peeps for help, and if something's beyond your skill (like chaos raid) then the content isn't really for you simply. (You generally don't need to min-max just to progress/socialize after all, it just makes it a bit more convenient for when later content comes out is all).

    Normal dungeons get free revives even, so it's really only end-game stuff too.
    (And you still get 3 (4 with tombstone, (or more if you don't care about afk'ing??)) free revives in (no time limit) hard mode dungeons at that)

    ---

    In regards to the headstart, it's just a week with limited content access? I guess if you really want to argue semantics (you may as well look at premium service, meso2meret, computer builds, retirement free time - - - ), but as someone who's played through the game I'm not really seeing how a few extra (normal-only) dungeon runs would hurt the game honestly. This is only an additive situation as opposed to what most players generally complain about for pay2win considering.

    Pay2win imo that's actually really dangerous is usually either a 'money only' option (like pets in OG Maplestory, or costume stats like in elsword) that provides an advantage over players no matter how much time they spend towards the game, or Pay2win is where the whole of scaling is significantly more convenient for the person paying (like if they allowed the extra dungeon entries for premium like in kms2, or the paid rebirth system in Mabinogi) that the differences between free and paid players simply grows exponentially.

    It's a minor evil perhaps, but still a whole lot better than what could've been.

    Even if I didn't have a founder's pack I don't think I would have cared, it's Nexon lol so I'm already impressed for what they're changing up for GMS2. So long as there's nothing more drastic than additive benefits and cosmetic gachas I'll stick around.

    Disclaimer: Feel free to argue, but I just felt like mentioning my pov, you can still have your opinion on the situation.
    mirta000Zerolio1skander
  • 404NotFound404NotFound
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    The MS2 Team is going all out and trying their best to appease their followers and ya'll still Big Mad™. Letting founders play 10-days earlier than those who decided NOT to pay is the least amount of p2w you can get in a game like MS2; a game that primarily revolves around socializing...
    mirta0001skander
  • HoIyHoIy
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    So because it's social game it should just be in every other aspect?

    Is this a new trend of new generation of kids who just label everyone who disagree with them as mad. lol
  • StrawberryPanicStrawberryPanic
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    I just want to say - thank you for those changes and listening to the community! If not for the daily/weekly limitations on the dungeons, it would be almost perfect. I'm still scared that people will react to them in similiar fashion that people reacted to fatigue system in Dungeon Fighter Online.
    mirta0001skander
  • 404NotFound404NotFound
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    HoIy wrote: »
    So because it's social game it should just be in every other aspect?

    Is this a new trend of new generation of kids who just label everyone who disagree with them as mad. lol

    No, of course not. I just think you all are taking it a little too seriously.
    mirta0001skander
  • mirta000mirta000
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    HoIy wrote: »
    One week was just enough time to start doing raid content though.

    Raids are not out till November. Source:


    HoIy wrote: »
    Also life skills are capped daily/weekly. Another possible advantage is that once we reach capped we will be able to get prestige exp which is ALSO capped daily(prestige level also gives skill/stat points. Depending on how much you want to play on the first week you can potentially be ahead quite a bit if you play more than one character which they have just made easier according to this post.

    A reasonable argument is that eventually these people will catch up but at that point I honestly think new content will be added to repeat the cycle. Since the planned update is december so....

    You also have to remember that premium players are already getting x2 dungeon rewards. 1 dungeon lock out is 60 gear EQs(minimum) + chaos + onyx. 10 days you can easily do it on 2-3 characters that's 120-180 gears with enough onyx/chaos to enchant pretty highly. Basically if you like PVP at all you have to buy founders or get one shotted. If you want to make money doing life skills then you have to buy founders or else by the time you start your items worthless.

    I've never had that issue of being late to an expansion, or a game and going "welp, guess crafting is off the list".
    After the game releases, for one month, we'll have nothing but the level 50 hard dungeons. Meaning here is where you catch up. PvP will be decided by who hits Chaos first and Chaos is only releasing in November.

    That being said, fair fight in PvP and PvP related gear would be preferable for the longevity of the game.

    RNG should be limited in hard dungeons in total, as sub or no sub, you'll always have the chance of getting exactly nothing for your character.
  • mirta000mirta000
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    HoIy wrote: »
    If you honestly think this game will last years or even design to last that long you don’t actually play the game. This game has a few week of content at most and it was the main issue with ms2.

    This is why everything in this game is time gated and even then you run out of things to do quickly. When you do your raid/dungeon cap there’s not much to do until your character reach a certain amount of gear score.

    So what do you do then? PvP is something that is actually fun and have high replay value but it’s ruined now with lack of pvp gear and nexon giving 10 day head start when the whole game is gated by weeks.

    To be fair if you can’t make another character then the lead wouldn’t be that bad but to tell your player base you’re avoiding p2w and then adding the head start and many other p2w features is just hilarious to me.

    I’m not discussing how pay to win something is. I’m just pointing out that it’s there. So it’s hard for me to understand when people “can’t understand” how paying to literally win/get advantage is p2w I’m at a lost for words on how else I can explain it to you.

    You can do Trophies, world explore, lifeskills, create UGC items, play Mushking Royale, do alts...
    There is A LOT to do in the game. So much that I didn't even hit cap in CBT2. As for the game not being hardcore, GOOD. Look how well GW2 did 2012 -2015 when all they had were the same normal dungeons and horizontal gear progression. I've been looking for something like it ever since HoT flipped it upside down.