my suggestions how to make paid revives better

mirta000mirta000
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edited 3:46AM August 1, 2018 in Suggestions and Feedback
Please, if you're willing to change this one part of the game, pick one of these.

1. Infinite respawns with mesos. We're also expecting merret to meso exchange to be in the game, as it is something that Korean version has, meaning technically with this option, you will still be selling revives, however F2P players will have the ability to earn their mesos and it will not look so blatantly as "we want money" which will turn off some portion of players.
2. Infinite respawns at the start of the dungeon (GW2, if nobody is fighting the boss while you're running back it will completely heal up too), meaning ideally you'll want your players to still spend money and respawn in the boss fight, however, once again, there's a nice free option if you are willing to spend the time.
3. Infinite respawns after wipe/boss is dead (most games do this). You would still charge money for reviving inside the boss fight and obviously reviving inside the boss fight will be a lot more attractive, however this way people could practice for hours without needing to reset the dungeon.
4. self respawns limited to after wipe/ boss is dead, but priest can rez (another popular option in other MMOs). In most MMOs healers can resurrect. To balance, you could make this ability take a long time to cast, or make it on a long cooldown, making merret revive a lot more lucrative again.
5. Everyone gets limited respawns. Because then at least everyone is equal. This is the worst option both for Nexon and for the players, but at least it will be less in your face and it will feel less pay to win.

I just really don't want us to go into launch with paid revives as they are. There's already a topic in general trying to decide if they're pay to win or not, so I think, for the sake of the players that will think that this is pay to win, some adjustments would be nice.
DanDKMidbossVerlobolder_tasteStrawberryPanicNaosAirys

Comments

  • DanDKDanDK
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    edited 3:45PM August 1, 2018
    1. Is good, though I prefer not having this solution since it still makes 'Hard' dungeons impossible to lose, which is not 'Hard'.
    2. Only works if the boss actually potentially resets, which no MS2 bosses currently do, so this would make the dungeon as easy as 'Normal' (which is currently impossible to lose). Even if the boss would reset, due to MS2 survivability, it's way too easy for the rest of the party to stall while a player runs back, so it still makes the dungeon very hard to lose.
    3. Is basically the same as 2. as I understand your description, although more hardcore as you remain dead until either party has wiped or boss is dead? This would be the most reasonable, but if you still charge Merets for instant revives, you basically still P2W (pay to skip wipe).
    4. Having a resurrect option should exist no matter anything else. It's only 1 extra free revive, so I don't see the problem.
    5. This is the best option, not the worst one. It means that good players will be able to complete dungeons and bad players won't. That's called rewarding effort which does clash with a lot of opinions on these forums because everyone want things served for free.

    EDIT: If 5. is too hard to swallow, just allow Merets to buy X amounts of limited respawns. That way, bad players can still pay for extra chances, but they don't get unlimited chances even if they keep paying.
    Also please explain how 5. is bad for the players unless you are a bad player. Certainly, players who don't need these respawns in the first place will be better off because others won't be paying to complete a dungeon they aren't actually able to do.
    Midbossmirta000StrawberryPanicOldCoffee
  • MidbossMidboss
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    Good to see something productive is coming from that thread.

    Just somthing to keep in mind...
    Korean versions of MMOs (That get a US/Global version) will normally have a few, if not better features that may not ever come to the a US/Global version. I've seen some MMOs that will never move features to global or do not show up till years later. Hard to say what the reasoning is, due to a large pool of possibilities. Personally I would like to see this system put in GMS2. It would be a lot easier/safer than finding players who will sell mesos for merits (not the gold bots, but real players).
    Verlomirta000La3elle
  • JetUppercutJetUppercut
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    edited 7:43PM August 1, 2018
    The problem with revive skills is that the bosses basically just run around doing their own thing without any regards for the players whacking it. This means it would be insanely easy to get revives off with a priest. Even with a long cast time and cool down I can see people waiting out a revive over spending merets. It just makes priests even more mandatory for F2P players. And if it's an item that costs a lot of mesos like some other games have revive scrolls, that just means people won't be willing to use it on randoms in groups, which defeats the purpose of even having it.
    Easier to just not have it and get rid of the meret revives altogether, to discourage dying. Which is a good thing to do.
    DanDK
  • MidbossMidboss
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    The problem with revive skills is that the bosses basically just run around doing their own thing without any regards for the players whacking it. This means it would be insanely easy to get revives off with a priest. Even with a long cast time and cool down I can see people waiting out a revive over spending merets. It just makes priests even more mandatory for F2P players. And if it's an item that costs a lot of mesos like some other games have revive scrolls, that just means people won't be willing to use it on randoms in groups, which defeats the purpose of even having it.
    Easier to just not have it and get rid of the meret revives altogether, to discourage dying. Which is a good thing to do.

    A good thing if the bosses could be controlled more, but as you said "the bosses basically just run around doing their own thing". In an MMO where a stronger raid plan would be required (such as tanks drawing agro, healers in sectors of the map, wizards doing mob control, ect.), punishing a player for dying by removing revives makes better sense. MS2 on the other hand has more RNG bosses, with less abilities to control and plan. This type of set up leads to deaths by bad RNG or poor gear.

    Also, Maplestory 1 had healers that did have the power to revive. P2W players still rather have just used real money to revive than carry a healer.
    mirta000AlexmoSnackCakes
  • JetUppercutJetUppercut
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    Midboss wrote: »
    A good thing if the bosses could be controlled more, but as you said "the bosses basically just run around doing their own thing". In an MMO where a stronger raid plan would be required (such as tanks drawing agro, healers in sectors of the map, wizards doing mob control, ect.), punishing a player for dying by removing revives makes better sense. MS2 on the other hand has more RNG bosses, with less abilities to control and plan. This type of set up leads to deaths by bad RNG or poor gear.

    It's not really bad because of RNG, it's pretty rare for a boss to actually focus it's attack on any one person for more than a few seconds and the attacks themselves have huge windups and gaps in between. The problem is because you can't get it to focus it's attacks on anyone, you can't get it to hate on people who are using revive items. Which means even with a thirty second long cast time you're going to see those revives going off all the time. Just adds even more revives to the pool on top of the 4 you already get for free, which doesn't fix the problem of revives basically making everything outside of the chaos raid easy mode. They're supposed to be Hard Adventures. Hard. 4 revives is already enough to clear both of them on your first try with average gear.
    Midboss wrote: »
    Also, Maplestory 1 had healers that did have the power to revive. P2W players still rather have just used real money to revive than carry a healer.

    I don't know what version of MS1 you played, but when I played Bishops were the carries. They had to basically remake the entire game just to dethrone them.
    DanDK
  • OlujiwanOlujiwan
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    I like a combination of 4 and 5. Like it currently stands in World of Warcraft. Allow battle-resurrections once or twice per character and after that, you'll need to wipe and restart.
    mirta000StrawberryPanicQaradoxical
  • MetosisMetosis
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    edited 11:38AM August 2, 2018
    Anything but the current system IMO, but if they want to keep it the same which I don't think it will bodes well with gamers of 2018...then I have two suggestions/ideas:

    1- Revives Pool:
    Instead of having individual revives, now the entire group share the same pool of revives, a skilled player won't die as often (if ever) as a new/less skilled player, which allows the later to use more revives while the skilled players "share" their free revives with others.
    This perfectly makes the revive system scale with the group's overall skill.

    2- Revive gifts:
    Allow other players in the group to "gift" revive to others, The party UI changes the dead player health into clickable Revive button that anyone can click............................................................................now whales have an actual purpose in the game finally.
    (or just let priests do it for 100 spirit on 30 secs cooldown..).
    mirta000DanDK
  • MidbossMidboss
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    edited 4:50PM August 2, 2018
    Midboss wrote: »
    A good thing if the bosses could be controlled more, but as you said "the bosses basically just run around doing their own thing". In an MMO where a stronger raid plan would be required (such as tanks drawing agro, healers in sectors of the map, wizards doing mob control, ect.), punishing a player for dying by removing revives makes better sense. MS2 on the other hand has more RNG bosses, with less abilities to control and plan. This type of set up leads to deaths by bad RNG or poor gear.

    It's not really bad because of RNG, it's pretty rare for a boss to actually focus it's attack on any one person for more than a few seconds and the attacks themselves have huge windups and gaps in between. The problem is because you can't get it to focus it's attacks on anyone, you can't get it to hate on people who are using revive items. Which means even with a thirty second long cast time you're going to see those revives going off all the time. Just adds even more revives to the pool on top of the 4 you already get for free, which doesn't fix the problem of revives basically making everything outside of the chaos raid easy mode. They're supposed to be Hard Adventures. Hard. 4 revives is already enough to clear both of them on your first try with average gear.
    Midboss wrote: »
    Also, Maplestory 1 had healers that did have the power to revive. P2W players still rather have just used real money to revive than carry a healer.

    I don't know what version of MS1 you played, but when I played Bishops were the carries. They had to basically remake the entire game just to dethrone them.

    Dang, I have no clue what version of MS1 you played lol. They sucked in MS1, for the 3+ years I played MS1. The only reason people used them was for the exp buff skill, and sometimes for free revives. When Phantom came out, he took over buffing for some grinding groups.

    EDIT: Also, I am wondering how a healer in any MMO could carry. I'd also add that healers in MS1 had to grind at locations where ghost mobs are at, since that all Holy damage was good for killing.
  • AerinnAerinn
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    mirta000 wrote: »
    Please, if you're willing to change this one part of the game, pick one of these.

    1. Infinite respawns with mesos. We're also expecting merret to meso exchange to be in the game, as it is something that Korean version has, meaning technically with this option, you will still be selling revives, however F2P players will have the ability to earn their mesos and it will not look so blatantly as "we want money" which will turn off some portion of players.
    2. Infinite respawns at the start of the dungeon (GW2, if nobody is fighting the boss while you're running back it will completely heal up too), meaning ideally you'll want your players to still spend money and respawn in the boss fight, however, once again, there's a nice free option if you are willing to spend the time.
    3. Infinite respawns after wipe/boss is dead (most games do this). You would still charge money for reviving inside the boss fight and obviously reviving inside the boss fight will be a lot more attractive, however this way people could practice for hours without needing to reset the dungeon.
    4. self respawns limited to after wipe/ boss is dead, but priest can rez (another popular option in other MMOs). In most MMOs healers can resurrect. To balance, you could make this ability take a long time to cast, or make it on a long cooldown, making merret revive a lot more lucrative again.
    5. Everyone gets limited respawns. Because then at least everyone is equal. This is the worst option both for Nexon and for the players, but at least it will be less in your face and it will feel less pay to win.

    I just really don't want us to go into launch with paid revives as they are. There's already a topic in general trying to decide if they're pay to win or not, so I think, for the sake of the players that will think that this is pay to win, some adjustments would be nice.

    1. meret to meso market, yes you can sell your meret for mesos and people can buy your meret with mesos.
    2. bro YOU CAN GO IN AS MANY TIME AS YOUR WANT. IF 4 PEOPLE DIE IN FIRST MINUTE, JUST RESTART THE RAID.
    3. so what you are saying people rather spend money than take 1 min to restart the dungeon?
    4. sure but the cast time gotta be like 60 seconds. or 1 person revive with 10 min cool down. The priest has to sacrifice something for your mistake.
    5. sure everyone can get limited respawns, i would like the game to be 1 respawn only :). Not like its even going to be fair anyways due other disgusting p2w aspects that wasnt in the CBT1/2.
    DanDK
  • SonFableSonFable
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    I'll give you one fix without reading anything in this post. Spend some money on nx and make your OWN decision on (not)spending.
    Problem solved. Meret ress as it is now is perfect. People that want to learn a raid can do it this way instead of constantly resetting, so meret ress adds QoL. If you don't want to spend merets get good. Besides Maplestory 2 is a fairly easy game as we already discussed.. after 3 raids you should know every single attack any boss does (AOE ST bleeds etc) and you shoulnt die anymore unless you're hard outgeared :)
    XxPoseidonxXXxViBe
  • XxPoseidonxXXxPoseidonxX
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    SonFable wrote: »
    I'll give you one fix without reading anything in this post. Spend some money on nx and make your OWN decision on (not)spending.
    Problem solved. Meret ress as it is now is perfect. People that want to learn a raid can do it this way instead of constantly resetting, so meret ress adds QoL. If you don't want to spend merets get good. Besides Maplestory 2 is a fairly easy game as we already discussed.. after 3 raids you should know every single attack any boss does (AOE ST bleeds etc) and you shoulnt die anymore unless you're hard outgeared :)

    I'm supporting this person; since, it's difficult to take this sort of stance in this type of thread.

    There are tons of people who are happy with the game as it currently is CBT2. They're just not as loud or as aggressive as those unhappy about it on the forums. The only reason I registered to post is because I would be very sad if someone listened to these complaints and ruined a good thing.
  • XxViBeXxViBe
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    edited 1:54PM August 5, 2018


    mirta000 wrote: »
    All I'm going to say is expect to spend 20$ a month on rezes, or be lynched by the community (Sena is KMS2 player and they're pro this mechanic). I REALLY hope that the game won't release in this state.
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    Feel free to spend 20 dollars a month of your rezzes while I enjoy not spending 20 dollars a month on rezzes. You see that? its a choice; I dont have to buy rezzes I can just clear the content without dying 4 times. Is it even wrong for people to want to kick you for being king of the floor gods? You know what happened if someone was under performing in the other games that I raided in? They got benched and we brought in someone that was less of a potato and there was no rezzing in combat so you get one life. As I said in an earlier post on one of your other threads, if you are slow at learning just join a casual guild I doubt they would care if you were dead the entire time.
  • mirta000mirta000
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    I'm supporting this person; since, it's difficult to take this sort of stance in this type of thread.

    There are tons of people who are happy with the game as it currently is CBT2. They're just not as loud or as aggressive as those unhappy about it on the forums. The only reason I registered to post is because I would be very sad if someone listened to these complaints and ruined a good thing.

    I honestly find that white-knighting is extremely aggressive in this community in general and it takes bravery to weather the insults to take any kind of stand. I also know from my previous beta experiences, that such defense could be disastrous on release, hence why I'm taking a stand while it's not too late.
    DanDK
  • NattteNattte
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    here is a tip and I will be doing it myself so do not worry "git gud"
    XxViBeAlziiCrowve
  • TeGeekTeGeek
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    So i have also watched your videos about merit revies. From that video i took that your biggest issue was that hardcore people wouldnt take people with them that didnt use merit resses. If thats wrong you can state the biggest issue you got with it and i will do another reply. But on that note.
    Your first suggestion wouldnt help people at all it would only make them run out of meso and then get kicked out anyway, cause the "hardcore" players would have way more meso anyway.
    The Second suggestion woudlnt really help people since you loose so much dmg from spawning at the start so people would just fail the dungeon anyway.
    Your third suggestion would be the same as first but only after the boss been defeated which wouldnt help in your case.
    4th just makes the merit revives appeal better.
    5th is just to simple with no really effort put into it. The people needing ress would still be in a bad stop cause they cant get further and experience the encounter.

    I personally dont have an issue with the merit revives. Its a nice feature if you are bad at the encounter and wanna keep reviving to learn the fight or if you do a misstake you can easily get back in the fight for a small cost. I would not label it p2w since you wont beat the encounter if you are really bad at it you will just simply die again.

    It seems you really wanna be part of hardcore people but without putting in effort or anything. It just seesm you wanna make the game easier for some reason like you would be happier if the you couldnt possibly die in the chaos raids.

    I have a suggestion tho if the merit revives were to be removed and that would be to increase the amount of free revives you could get per month and also raise the meso revive cap by a small number. The meso paid revives would go up in cost by alot for each revive tho. This would put pressure on the person to both farm the revive ticket but also to learn the encounter.
    NattteBeezeeCrowve
  • TriniTrini
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    Well my only solution will be to work on my chara control and survavibility so there won't be meret spend to reviving.
  • iAMAZEuiAMAZEu
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    edited 4:06PM August 5, 2018
    i really don't understand why this topic is still being discussed. You have 1 FREE pet revive and 3 FREE revives. That comes out to 4 FREE revives. Do you really need more than 4 FREE revives? And say that you did die after you used up all your FREE revives. Yea, I think the 5th or perhaps the 10th death being merit-based doesn't constitute it being pay to win. It's pay cause you ****. Maybe make it cost more as a way to incentivize not dying so much and dragging your party down. #gitgud
    iSHOOTuXxPoseidonxX
  • XxPoseidonxXXxPoseidonxX
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    If you honestly expect to die 5-10 times and not at least irk your party members, revives or not, you might be mistaken....
  • datboycuongdatboycuong
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    iAMAZEu wrote: »
    i really don't understand why this topic is still being discussed. You have 1 FREE pet revive and 3 FREE revives. That comes out to 4 FREE revives. Do you really need more than 4 FREE revives? And say that you did die after you used up all your FREE revives. Yea, I think the 5th or perhaps the 10th death being merit-based doesn't constitute it being pay to win. It's pay cause you ****. Maybe make it cost more as a way to incentivize not dying so much and dragging your party down. #gitgud

    So you are right in the fact that you're paying cause you suck but, it still constitutes as pay 2 win because you can have 10 whales in one party doing a chaos raid that's unbeatable because it may be the hardest content in the game and they don't have to worry about mechanics. They will stand there and bring 10 DPS and just DPS, revive, DPS, revive and complete the raid and end up with better gear. Whereas you, being a wonderful raid player, will have to wait until your team gets slightly better gear or enchantments to get that last little bit to complete the raid. This is where the paying for unlimited revival becomes a problem for majority of the community. To some, like yourself, may not bother you and it doesn't bother me. But coming from many mobile and f2p games, it bothers majority of the community.
    DanDK
  • CrowveCrowve
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    iAMAZEu wrote: »
    i really don't understand why this topic is still being discussed. You have 1 FREE pet revive and 3 FREE revives. That comes out to 4 FREE revives. Do you really need more than 4 FREE revives? And say that you did die after you used up all your FREE revives. Yea, I think the 5th or perhaps the 10th death being merit-based doesn't constitute it being pay to win. It's pay cause you ****. Maybe make it cost more as a way to incentivize not dying so much and dragging your party down. #gitgud

    So you are right in the fact that you're paying cause you suck but, it still constitutes as pay 2 win because you can have 10 whales in one party doing a chaos raid that's unbeatable because it may be the hardest content in the game and they don't have to worry about mechanics. They will stand there and bring 10 DPS and just DPS, revive, DPS, revive and complete the raid and end up with better gear. Whereas you, being a wonderful raid player, will have to wait until your team gets slightly better gear or enchantments to get that last little bit to complete the raid. This is where the paying for unlimited revival becomes a problem for majority of the community. To some, like yourself, may not bother you and it doesn't bother me. But coming from many mobile and f2p games, it bothers majority of the community.

    You won't beat it if you die several times...