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[POLL] Meret revive = Pay2win?

ZerolioZerolio
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edited 7:05AM July 29, 2018 in General Chat
I think it is 100%, and you?
StrawberryPanicmirta000AngelicaxoxoVoia
  1. Do you think that reviving with merets in a dungeon is Pay2win?265 votes
    1. Yes
       51% (134 votes)
    2. No
       46% (122 votes)
    3. Other (comment below please)
       3% (9 votes)

Comments

  • NyuraNyura
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    I mean, technically, if you are a casher, you can revive an infinite amount of times, so in that sense, you do get a pretty advantage in raids/hard dungeons/whatever they're called now.

    On the other hand, even if you revive 100 times, if you just get 1shot 5seconds later, it won't let you clear the instance either way, so it's a P2W feature that still requires good enough knowledge of mechanics and good enough gear to deal damage
    VoiaLunaeyalulu12
  • MidbossMidboss
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    You could just get good, and not die, making revives pointless. xD
    SeekerScorpioAnikiVoiaElefeloLunaeyalulu12DalsiaJohnnyOxideLikitoWifuPillo
  • NaosNaos
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    Anyone who has to pay out tons in merits to clear content is not going to be good enough to proceed through later content after it. So in fact they are losing more money the more they spend. For example: If you die 20 times on Fire Dragon and I die twice, you pay for 17 deaths and get less of a reward than I do( i get B rank, you C rank). If you want to grind out Fire Dragon for gear your IRL skills will still be lower than the rest of the group despite your gear score. This makes later raids even more expensive as they get harder and you will die more. So your spending goes up with each tier of content. A person who chain dies also does not contribute much to their respective group role, dragging the group down. Do this enough and you will make a name for yourself where other players won't want to group with you. It's like buying a 4K gear score account and then trying to PvP or raid. Your play skills will not match the gear you have and it will show badly.
    The only one who benefits from this is Nexon as they are gaining money from selling merits to the player.

    I'll be honest, the first 3 runs of fire dragon I merit raised until I learned the mechanics. But merits in CBT2 are free so its no loss to me. On release, I won't merit raise. However, it is tempting to do so when you are close to a clear and have run out of free rezzes. With late-game content, you need to know the fight and research it. Proper prep and a few throwaway runs will get most players set up for success.

    I do not see how someone who pays for rezzes in a raid are going to dominate the game in any category. Skill and knowledge will always triumph there.
    VerloVoiaElefeloxTianaxLikito
  • MidbossMidboss
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    edited 9:27AM July 29, 2018
    Naos wrote: »
    Anyone who has to pay out tons in merits to clear content is not going to be good enough to proceed through later content after it. So in fact they are losing more money the more they spend. For example: If you die 20 times on Fire Dragon and I die twice, you pay for 17 deaths and get less of a reward than I do( i get B rank, you C rank). If you want to grind out Fire Dragon for gear your IRL skills will still be lower than the rest of the group despite your gear score. This makes later raids even more expensive as they get harder and you will die more. So your spending goes up with each tier of content. A person who chain dies also does not contribute much to their respective group role, dragging the group down. Do this enough and you will make a name for yourself where other players won't want to group with you. It's like buying a 4K gear score account and then trying to PvP or raid. Your play skills will not match the gear you have and it will show badly.
    The only one who benefits from this is Nexon as they are gaining money from selling merits to the player.

    I'll be honest, the first 3 runs of fire dragon I merit raised until I learned the mechanics. But merits in CBT2 are free so its no loss to me. On release, I won't merit raise. However, it is tempting to do so when you are close to a clear and have run out of free rezzes. With late-game content, you need to know the fight and research it. Proper prep and a few throwaway runs will get most players set up for success.

    I do not see how someone who pays for rezzes in a raid are going to dominate the game in any category. Skill and knowledge will always triumph there.

    Hate to break the news to you, but this is not Dark Souls. Though a lot of games require "skill", the bigger importance is that players understand what the boss is and how to fight it. By the time a player hits level 50 I would at least assume the player knows how to play the game for that class (i.e what there own skills are and how to avoid attacks). When the game comes out, the question will be if the raids will be too complex for randoms (leading to pre-made created and educated raid groups) or if the raids can be handled by randoms (where teams will be fine with grabbing standard needed classes with min gear requirements).

    If a person is so bad that they do not pull there fair share, yes they will be kicked from future runs and other people will not want to bring those people. A person who sucks at the game will not be wanted by raid groups, regardless of if they have the ability to revive or not with merits. I would at least prefer that those bad players can at least pull some weight, by reviving themselves more with there own money, than going through a raid with tombstone pal to decor the battle field.
    MonogatariSeekerScorpioSubglaciousNyuraVerloMoaMissionCariseiWifuPillo
  • StrawberryPanicStrawberryPanic
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    To be honest, even harder fights get easy when you have a proper equipment. Fire Dragon kills you with almost every skill when you have low GS. But then with 2,5K GS+ he has only 1 instakill skill and the fight becomes very easy. So I think that Meret actually gives a lot of adventage when you can get past through those early attempts with bonus revives.
    DanDKUnlimitedMidbossSubglaciousNyuraVerlo
  • DanDKDanDK
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    I think this is extremely obvious P2W.
    By spending X amount of money you literally cannot lose. Sure, it's nice to know that the community might shun these people for groups but that is just some kind of vigilante move that doesn't remove the fact that enough money will literally make you invincible.
    In fact, given enough money, this means that anyone could even solo with 0% risk. At this point, it doesn't even matter anymore what others think.

    And it doesn't just mean that people can spam money for free wins. It also means that being good at the dungeons and learning how to survive no longer determines if you'll win it or not. It only determines that you save a few cents on not having to pay for extra revives. Being good at a dungeon doesn't mean that you can pass it and others can't. It just means that you can pass it for cheaper and other can pass it for some money.

    It's absolutely ridiculous and means you can pay your way to success in a part of the game that a lot of people already consider the only important aspect of progression. To those people, you really want to argue that Dungeons are important enough to skip all the way to 50 to do, just so everyone with a big enough wallet can skip right past everything again?
    StrawberryPanicUnlimitedSnackCakesNyuraAngelicaxoxoAkuma524Waramesora195
  • UnlimitedUnlimited
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    It's clearly Pay-to-Win and I cannot even fathom how these people can support such existence of a wicked idea such as this. This game is literally telling you that if you play bad, if you don't play good enough, you will have to pay more money in order to clear your dungeons than people with better skills (whom will die anyway inevitably in some point but less, thus they also have to pay money for revives)?
    It is a system that milks you of money by making the harder-difficulty dungeons really hard, making you inevitably die, so it will force you to spend on revives. Not only it's Pay-to-Win, it is a very greedy system of cash-grabbing! Pay Merets to use the World-Chat everytime, and now pay Merets to revive everytime?
    If you still do not see what this is about, then you must be a blind white-knight!

    I will make my 2 points again:
    1.) It's Pay-to-Win!
    2.) It is a greedy money-grabbing system!

    Oh, I forgot to point this out; The 50% HP Pots are also available only in the Meret Shop. Don't tell me that this is not a necessity! That's another money-grab and Pay-to-Win there! Do you think Nexon have changed? Think again!

    Most of the people that replied here are a bunch of white-knights! Are you that optimistic that you forget to see the truth on what lies already in front of you? Now, go reason with me and counter my argument. You will do it in a white-knight way claiming the game is perfect with a perfect system, when in fact, it is far from it! People like you are the reason why this game have and will never change. Are you serious to defend this pay-to-revive system?

    When the game flops, I am going to have a discussion with you people. Let's see where this will go! A bunch of blind white-knights!
    GloomEnchantedBoundlessWarmthDanDKSnackCakesSerfrostTylerTheDragonAngelicaxoxoCariseiand 2 others.
  • UnlimitedUnlimited
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    edited 12:30PM July 29, 2018
    The AFK Fishing/Music for EXP-gain where you have to pay money is another form of pay-to-win and money-grabbing that affects the progression system. You see, you people are so blind and hypocrite of this game that you are willing to defend even it's obvious flaws like a crusader. Do you think systems like that is acceptable? To you it is! To me it's ridiculous!

    The reason hypocrisy is so prevalent and dominant in this forum and this community, is because nobody here is willing to question the flawed system and design of this game. Nobody but very few, and it makes us look bad if we do it. Because of this nature, such systems and design remains like it is an acceptable norm! This game is unbelievable here, other MMOs are not even like this, the community is willing to question something questionable about the game in order for the game to improve and make it a better experience for them!
    GloomEnchantedBoundlessWarmthDanDKTylerTheDragonNonnaNyuraVerloCarisei
  • SeekerScorpioSeekerScorpio
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    edited 1:21PM July 29, 2018
    Midboss wrote: »
    You could just get good, and not die, making revives pointless. xD

    Along with that, reading some of the responses above, if people put HALF of their energy complaining and playing the victim into NOT being poor, said people would not be on the forums saying something as idiotic as revives is p2w... or afk fishing.....

    I swear, poor people butchered the term p2w. No one is "Winning" anything with these two bad examples. Old school World of Tanks WAS the epitomy of what p2w meant where you had access to tiers NO ONE ELSE did to be able to defeat other players no matter how dedicated the f2p was.

    Basically, focus all that poor people whining, complaining, and laziness into getting a job or a better job and you wouldn't be thinking about how "unfair" trivial things are like.... revives....(lol) or just keep laughed at which you bring 100% upon yourselves (that's the part where y'all love to play the victim). Poor people complaints is top 3 worst kinds of echo chambers to be hearing and/or reading. :|

    VoiaXxPoseidonxX
  • mmviimmvii
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 4,990
    Posts: 661
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    edited 1:21PM July 29, 2018
    Unlimited wrote: »
    The AFK Fishing/Music for EXP-gain where you have to pay money is another form of pay-to-win and money-grabbing that affects the progression system. You see, you people are so blind and hypocrite of this game that you are willing to defend even it's obvious flaws like a crusader. Do you think systems like that is acceptable? To you it is! To me it's ridiculous!

    The reason hypocrisy is so prevalent and dominant in this forum and this community, is because nobody here is willing to question the flawed system and design of this game. Nobody but very few, and it makes us look bad if we do it. Because of this nature, such systems and design remains like it is an acceptable norm! This game is unbelievable here, other MMOs are not even like this, the community is willing to question something questionable about the game in order for the game to improve and make it a better experience for them!

    Lol it's true, I am already wondering what to use to level in those main quest exp gaps without auto music, when there is no free merits. I guess I'll have to taxi to tria and buy the music sheets or something and just play them til I get the 1 level.

    I haven't used the merit revives so i am unsure how they work but from what people are saying it sounds like a soft p2w thing. Maybe Nexon will change it and the exp gain from auto music before release who knows.
    UnlimitedVoia
  • UnlimitedUnlimited
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    edited 1:52PM July 29, 2018

    Along with that, reading some of the responses above, if people put HALF of their energy complaining and playing the victim into NOT being poor, said people would not be on the forums saying something as idiotic as revives is p2w... or afk fishing.....

    I swear, poor people butchered the term p2w. No one is "Winning" anything with these two bad examples. Old school World of Tanks WAS the epitomy of what p2w meant where you had access to tiers NO ONE ELSE did to be able to defeat other players no matter how dedicated the f2p was.

    Basically, focus all that poor people whining, complaining, and laziness into getting a job or a better job and you wouldn't be thinking about how "unfair" trivial things are like.... revives....(lol) or just keep laughed at which you bring 100% upon yourselves (that's the part where y'all love to play the victim). Poor people complaints is top 3 worst kinds of echo chambers to be hearing and/or reading. :|

    I am complaining here and I am quite the opposite really. I work as an Engineer so I make decent money in real-life. Money to me is not an issue. But let's not deviate from the topic here, the discussion here is not about myself, a Pay-to-Win game is a Pay-to-Win game no matter what situation I'm in (I can be homeless and it doesn't change the fact that the game is Pay-to-Win)!
    The way you defined the term is if it can be obtained from the game, then it makes it not Pay-to-Win. You are saying that Blade and Soul is not Pay-to-Win when it is! Pay-to-Progress is Pay-to-Win, it's the same thing!
    You are justifying that if you have a source of income, if you can afford it, Pay-to-Win anyway!
    You are calling me poor because I'm complaining that it's Pay-to-Win? And don't call me lazy because I work for 8 or more hours a day and I can still get to level 50 from nothing within the same day in this CBT2.
    mirta000GloomEnchantedBoundlessWarmthDanDKEvoraPrince_AdamTylerTheDragonNonnaand 3 others.
  • mirta000mirta000
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    I have a full time job, but it rubs me the right way that I could rez force a boss while a free to play user couldn't. Honestly we should ALL be limited to 4 revives, or remove the revive limit and we should ALL have unlimited revives. This is one of those cash shop things that I've hated the most.
    mmviiidontreallyknowmanStrawberryPanicUnlimitedEvoraVerloSherrilulu12
  • UnlimitedUnlimited
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    edited 2:02PM July 29, 2018
    If you can buy the same thing with money, the same thing as if you are to do it without, what is the point of doing them in the first place? Well, this is Pay-to-Progress, which is Pay-to-Win, it is the same thing! It makes progression in this game less meaningful, less rewarding, and less objective!

    Ofcourse, they have to fund the game and Cosmetics alone will not do it, I understand that. But if the game is going to this level of Pay-to-Progress, it makes your progression-system to be full of holes. Nobody will put the effort in it if you can skip it with money. Nobody will even pay for it because the whole thing is meaningless anyway! Who will pay for something worthless like this progression-system that is Pay-to-Win?

    I think we already agreed that Pay-to-Win does not work here in the West and the playerbase will not tolerate it? What are you doing now?
    StrawberryPanicGloomEnchantedBoundlessWarmthDanDKEvoramirta000TylerTheDragonCariseiand 3 others.
  • idontreallyknowmanidontreallyknowman
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    It absolutely is, you shouldn't be able to easily clear content by just dumping money into revives thats ridiculous.
    StrawberryPanicDanDKUnlimitedEvoramirta000Akuma524Sherri
  • UnlimitedUnlimited
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    edited 2:17PM July 29, 2018
    I'm surprised that this is not getting as much of attention as that censorship which is related to UCG, cosmetics, and customization, when I think it should be getting more. Let's not undermine the severity of this issue of Pay-to-Win as some people here do. What do you think is more important? That there is a bear inside my house and I left my phone inside. The impression that I'm getting here is you care more about getting that phone than your own safety. It's borderline ridiculous for you people to play blind of obvious issues! Pay-to-Win is Pay-to-Win!
    GloomEnchantedBoundlessWarmthDanDKEvoraSherri
  • StrawberryPanicStrawberryPanic
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    Unlimited wrote: »
    If you can buy the same thing with money, the same thing as if you are to do it without, what is the point of doing them in the first place? Well, this is Pay-to-Progress, which is Pay-to-Win, it is the same thing! It makes progression in this game less meaningful, less rewarding, and less objective!

    Ofcourse, they have to fund the game and Cosmetics alone will not do it, I understand that. But if the game is going to this level of Pay-to-Progress, it makes your progression-system to be full of holes. Nobody will put the effort in it if you can skip it with money. Nobody will even pay for it because the whole thing is meaningless anyway! Who will pay for something worthless like this progression-system that is Pay-to-Win?

    I think we already agreed that Pay-to-Win does not work here in the West and the playerbase will not tolerate it? What are you doing now?

    I'm pretty sure that games of MOBA and Battle Royale genre has clearly shown that the current and smartest trend in microtransactions is actually avoiding any kind of Pay-to-Win features and focusing solely on cosmetic side of the games, making the community healthy and happy. Am I making things up? What are the most popular online games right now?. League of Legends, Dota 2, Fortnite, CS:GO, Overwatch, PUBG. And there's zero P2W in those. And somehow those games are bringing immense amount of cash.

    So I truly hope that those features are going to get removed. And I'm saying this as a person who bought a legendary founder pack.
    DanDKUnlimitedSnackCakesTylerTheDragonSherri
  • ChillBearChillBear
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    I been beating the drum about the meret revive system being P2W for a few months now. It IS Pay to win in its most literal sense. I'm surprised the community hasn't hit out about this topic more and at an earlier time.
    StrawberryPanicUnlimitedmirta000CariseiAkuma524Sherri
  • DanDKDanDK
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    mmvii wrote: »
    Lol it's true, I am already wondering what to use to level in those main quest exp gaps without auto music, when there is no free merits. I guess I'll have to taxi to tria and buy the music sheets or something and just play them til I get the 1 level.

    I haven't used the merit revives so i am unsure how they work but from what people are saying it sounds like a soft p2w thing. Maybe Nexon will change it and the exp gain from auto music before release who knows.

    Eh, all you have to do is grab a few Exploration Stars, World Quests and minigames on the way and the gap is as good as non-existent. Cap with a music sheet or two if necessary, progression is still a huge joke as in CBT1 (slightly better, still bad). Merets won't be necessary unless you will really be AFK levelling while you work/sleep.

    Here's how the Meret revives work: After your ordinary safe revivals (free) and mesos revivals, you can now pay 20, 30, 40, 50 Merets to revive an unlimited number of times ever after. It caps at 50 Merets per revive. Using a Revive Voucher gives you a free revive and delays the price increase by one death.
    What that means is money gives you literal godmode. If that isn't P2W, I have no idea what is.
    UnlimitedStrawberryPanicEvoramirta000SnackCakesAlzackConsciousSherri
  • UnlimitedUnlimited
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    DanDK wrote: »
    Eh, all you have to do is grab a few Exploration Stars, World Quests and minigames on the way and the gap is as good as non-existent. Cap with a music sheet or two if necessary, progression is still a huge joke as in CBT1 (slightly better, still bad). Merets won't be necessary unless you will really be AFK levelling while you work/sleep.

    Here's how the Meret revives work: After your ordinary safe revivals (free) and mesos revivals, you can now pay 20, 30, 40, 50 Merets to revive an unlimited number of times ever after. It caps at 50 Merets per revive. Using a Revive Voucher gives you a free revive and delays the price increase by one death.
    What that means is money gives you literal godmode. If that isn't P2W, I have no idea what is.
    It's true, the gap is almost non-existent. You don't literally have to grind on World Quests for levels. You wanna know what I did? Those Wooden Chest gives almost 200K EXP everytime you open one. All I have to do is keep switching channels and do it on a small map. I got to level 50 effortlessly doing the linear epic-quest and taking care of this almost non-existent gap.
    It's ridiculously easy and people are saying it's very hard, lol!
    EvoraDanDKGloomEnchantedWarmthBoundlessConsciousVerloPantoneSherri
  • MarchinBunnyMarchinBunny
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    Oh, yes, it's pay to win. I don't really care though because it's not the kind of pay to win I feel would ruin the game. I typically am more concerned about the kind of pay to win that pretty much means you will be lacking, no matter what, unless you pay.

    Think of it like this. If you are so bad at this game that you need to get pissy over someone being able to revive because they paid for it, then it wouldn't help you any more if they were in the same position as you. You would just now have company in being a bad player.
    Voia
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