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[Feedback] Combat System

NXACuddlesNXACuddles
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edited 8:01PM July 14, 2018 in Closed Beta 2 Feedback
Please leave your feedback regarding the Combat System.
Headstar007Sháng

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  • DanDKDanDK
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    edited 3:02PM July 18, 2018
    The combat system is unchanged from CBT1 and remains bland. All classes have variations of the exact same skills (single target, AoE, dashes) and while they visually look different, you play them exactly the same. Even the support classes almost have identical attacks and movement compared to the raw DPS classes. Skills are unlocked way too early and with no effort, and generally no classes have any unique traits that set them apart from others. From the very beginning of the game, all classes deal with combat through roughly the same strategy of button mashing their primary skills and dodging in between.

    Monsters still die almost instantly to almost anything and the only way to seemingly increase combat difficulty is to add more health, which means that battles remain easy but become tedious as well because you're basically just button mashing for a longer period of time before you're finally done. The same logic applies to put certain monsters on a timer, they remain easy but now you're just limited by an arbitrary time limit that punishes you for not having farmed stronger items.
    rectrixHeadstar007RowboatGirlymanLilSleepyFoxLuxxWaterFilterVerloBagobolder_tasteNimioand 4 others.
  • 2D2D
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    edited 3:12PM July 18, 2018
    been having a blast in the CBT2, playing my lovely Thief.

    Although, I don't know what's changed, but it is impossible for me to get over 3 stacks of Poison Edge on a boss. The counter has only went up to a maximum of 2 stacks so far, even though i am hitting the full 5-stage combo and am not experiencing severe lag or anything of the sort.

    can anyone else playing Thief also give input for this issue? i'm hoping i'm not the only one having it.
    Headstar007Verlobolder_tasteLopttSamusown
  • VanicleVanicle
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    DanDK wrote: »
    The combat system is unchanged from CBT1 and remains bland. All classes have variations of the exact same skills (single target, AoE, dashes) and while they visually look different, you play them exactly the same. Even the support classes almost have identical attacks and movement compared to the raw DPS classes. Skills are unlocked way too early and with no effort, and generally no classes have any unique traits that set them apart from others. From the very beginning of the game, all classes deal with combat through roughly the same strategy of button mashing their primary skills and dodging in between.

    Monsters still die almost instantly to almost anything and the only way to seemingly increase combat difficulty is to add more health, which means that battles remain easy but become tedious as well because you're basically just button mashing for a longer period of time before you're finally done. The same logic applies to put certain monsters on a timer, they remain easy but now you're just limited by an arbitrary time limit that punishes you for not having farmed stronger items.


    I agree with this. Not sure how much control over this you guys have as I’m sure it’s heavily based off the other versions of MS2, but playing Priest with my friend playing Assassin seems very similar so far. Both dashing, both AoEing, both just dotting. Hopefully there will be more differentiation later as we level.

    Also, combat is very very easy but I’m not sure if that’s necessarily a problem with regular mobs. Some of the world bosses have been more difficult which has been nice. However, I would definitely recommend making the bosses that we are meant to be fighting in the storyline that “beat” us (aka the first boss we fought in the Assassin storyline, forgot the name now) harder. It would be nice if we actually got wrecked in the fight as well as in the cut scene, rather than destroying the boss in a fight (literally within seconds) only to find out we’ve lost in the corresponding cut scene haha.
    Headstar007Zerolio
  • CroeCroe
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    One potential improvement I would like to propose is being able to dash through enemies. Most classes have a move which allows them to dash forward. However, if you are attempting to dash through a group of enemies they act like a wall forcing you to stop. This is especially noticeable on the assassin class where kiting and grouping of mobs is necessary to min/max damage. I would like to recommend either allowing dash to penetrate through enemies or simply push them to the side.
    VanicleHeadstar007LilSleepyFoxVerloBagoNimioHasoriLockeExile
  • RadakaRadaka
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    I'm playing as a heavy gunner. While using the Point & Click controls, I'd really like it if my abilities always targeted my cursor's location. Currently, they prioritize whatever location I'm facing.

    It seems like a small enough change, but it would make the controls feel nice and slick. As it is now, it feels like I'm fighting the controls just to aim.
    rectrixHeadstar007LinVegaVerloBagoFantasykittenMoe_Loli_eGirlSnackCakesHasoriLockeExile
  • AkumaeAkumae
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    One potential improvement I would like to propose is being able to dash through enemies. Most classes have a move which allows them to dash forward. However, if you are attempting to dash through a group of enemies they act like a wall forcing you to stop. This is especially noticeable on the assassin class where kiting and grouping of mobs is necessary to min/max damage. I would like to recommend either allowing dash to penetrate through enemies or simply push them to the side.

    I wholeheartedly second Croe's statement. I believe dashes, evasion skills, and the like, should ignore unit collision and allow phasing through the enemies, instead of just being body-blocked and then forced to take the hit that you intended dodge in the first place.
    Headstar007FantasykittenshinrinyokuLockeExile
  • Headstar007Headstar007
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    I currently like the combat system and how it was implemented, I like how it is more action-combat rather than tab targetting, Plus it seems decently balanced and quite visually stunning. But dashes and evasion skills should allow you to pass through enemies it is quite annoying trying to dodge an enemy and being attacked, this is probably the only issue I have with the combat system in MS2.
    TTitanLockeExile
  • ZeAfroGentlemanZeAfroGentleman
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    The one small little thing that irks me so far, is that combat seems a little more difficult. Not so much about the fact that enemies have more health or anything, but the fact that enemies seem to have more health from when I played this the first time the beta came around. When I played it the first time I had no real issues playing my Knight through the story. Things went swimmingly and fine, but nowadays, I don't know why, but it seems either the enemies hit harder or have a good amount more HP. Not to mention the fact you don't get orange pots until way later in the story. So, my suggestion/feedback on it. Rather than changing the monsters damage output or HP, give the players the higher rarity of potions sooner, like they do in KMS2 and CMS2. This way players aren't stuck until level 30 with red potions and red leaves. (Yes, I know you can buy potions in the general store if you need them).
    Verlo
  • xrayMS2xrayMS2
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    Berserker's spin needs to to use more mana or get the damage lowered
    LinVegaRebelRaccoon
  • doofirthjrdoofirthjr
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    Let me start by saying aesthetically the combat system is wonderful. The abilities feel powerful and unique even when mixed with a mass flurry of other players spamming abilities as well. In practice however the abilities don't have much variety, I find myself sticking to one go to ability while the others are rarely used and I never use just the basic attack. As an archer class I love the quick spamming of attacks and the point of it all but there is no fun to the class aside from me holding down one button to win fights. Some variety could include something that came off like an arcane missile where once fired it locks on or unique pet moves with the hawk (even additional animal companion options that wouldn't conflict with pet design). Before and now with the release I researched some of the other classes to get a better idea of what I might like and all of the melee classes seemed so similar I ended up avoiding them in exchange for the ranged classes. I don't want all this criticism to make it sound like I'm disappointed or anything but I do feel like their is room to make it better. This current system is great for a beginner in the MMO genre and fits the design of the game wonderfully. I hope in the future you guys continue to enhance and provide more of quality content you have already delivered.
    Nimio
  • LilSleepyFoxLilSleepyFox
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    I won't say much about combat, others have said what I think above. What I want to mention is the performance meter. Please, please, PLEASE, fix it. The DPS meter is useless if the timer never stops. Change it so it stops counting while you're not in combat.
    RebelRaccoonYaeRedvannSnackCakessatomiBladeHasoriSamusown
  • LuxxLuxx
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  • ReapersScytheReapersScythe
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    The Combat system i find is solid however please add a toggle that allows us to use our abilities where our mouse cursor is, makes the game a lot more difficult to enjoy when u have to hold down your movement keys while using your abilities just to aim. I've died many times in the first dungeon vs the tree because of unintended movement due to holding down the movement keys. If you could implement a "use ability at general square that the mouse is at" it would be very useful and make the game much more enjoyable. An example would be Path of Exile or Diablo's mechanics.
    Hasori
  • AwooAwoo
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    Croe wrote: »
    One potential improvement I would like to propose is being able to dash through enemies. Most classes have a move which allows them to dash forward. However, if you are attempting to dash through a group of enemies they act like a wall forcing you to stop. This is especially noticeable on the assassin class where kiting and grouping of mobs is necessary to min/max damage. I would like to recommend either allowing dash to penetrate through enemies or simply push them to the side.
    Akumae wrote: »
    I wholeheartedly second Croe's statement. I believe dashes, evasion skills, and the like, should ignore unit collision and allow phasing through the enemies, instead of just being body-blocked and then forced to take the hit that you intended dodge in the first place.

    This is a feature of the Thief that is unique only to the Thief. Giving it to all classes would take away one of the few things that makes the Thief class interesting/good.
    2Dbolder_tasteYzuuStarkusSamusown
  • VerloVerlo
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    edited 7:16AM July 20, 2018
    I have to say I am glad we have a crit rate meter as part of the performance meter. But I dont know why you can just change the formulae for how it is calculated/displayed in the actually detailed stats window. The flat numbers still dont tell me how it gets that % rate. Majority of mmos nowadays have a % crit stat in their detailed windows. Why has it been removed and put into a performance meter in MS2... doesnt makes sense.

    Archer dodge skill takes up 4/6 energies. I feel this needs to be changed to 3/6 so we can at least dodge x2 in a row. Which a lot of the time is necessary to keep safe from bosses as they have wide AoE attacks and are pretty fast to aggro and follow me. A x1 dodge and I get stuck sometimes as I cant dodge again and I get hit by the boss and die. :(
    RedvannExigaHasoriPoofcatAlzack
  • UberchaoUberchao
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    edited 9:06AM July 20, 2018
    I wouldn't call the classes "not fun" so much as "unremarkable" for the most part, really only those who are picky about what they want will really hate them. Which includes me but whatever.

    A big issue that I believe could have an easy fix, however, is that both Knight and Berserker are pretty fun classes with what they have, but most of their movesets are invalidated by one single skill each of them have; this is Typhoon Slash for Knight, and Ground Breaker for Berserker. In CBT1 I had fun leveling my berserker until I unlocked Ground Breaker, and the rest of the story was incredibly easy with how much easy, raw power the skill provides with no situational disadvantages to it, and I ended up boring myself. Dark Breaker became a total waste since it would expend all stacks and still pale in comparison to the ludicrous damage of Ground Breaker. So my suggestion is to take another look at these classes and the balancing of their skills, preferably nerf these skills to be either weaker, more SP-costly, or induce cooldown. I can't think of other skills they have that felt particularly weak, so I dunno about buffing. Aside from giving Knight a "Just Guard" window at the beginning of their Iron Shield, but that's a whole other conversation entirely.

    Thief is still super fun and so far is the only class I can imagine taking to cap level in the full release. Apparently poison stacks aren't working properly in CBT2 though, ouch.
    bolder_tasteLopttSamusown
  • DayDreamingerDayDreaminger
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    I'm playing Priest and i find healing range a bit to weak. Think you should increase it a little bit. Maybe to 5m instead of 3m.

    LuxxFantasykittenMapleMaltShakeByondhlpVerloNimioSnackCakesHasoriPoofcatTTitanand 2 others.
  • OhzmaOhzma
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    I don't know where else to put it so I'll place this here (PLEASE NOTE ALL I'VE PLAYED THUS FAR IS THE ASSASSIN CLASS):

    Dashes are just frustrating in general this game due to not being able to dash mid-air, not being able to dash from one platform, and most importantly not being able to dash through enemies due to their thicc unit sizes. I highly suggest that at least the Non-Damage dealing Dashes should ignore unit collision and just dash through enemies, maybe even dash through certain objects. As an Assassin I end up feeling like a Rogue when I get stuck between these oddly sized and shaped monsters and objects, I end up giving up even jumping around them (not even jumping helps, only killing them or death sets me free) so I end up fighting literally in front of the whole mobs. Other frustration is dashing when going through stairs or the corners/walls/objects, I just end up stopping due to odd invisible shapes/walls or something along those lines. Not game breaking but definitely doesn't help the game feel smooth.

    And when I fight mobs next to stairs or where they are in a higher platform... Yum. The monsters' AIs and the vertical size of my abilities when it comes to different platform levels is anything but enjoyable.
    LilSleepyFoxHasori
  • HydrosaberHydrosaber
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    With the skills and equipment, though it's nice that the weapons aren't per say locked from each character, they seem to block a lot or all of your skills, despite it not listing that the weapon per say is required. I haven't played much, currently a lvl 18 priest in the time of this post, but when I equip a sword on my character, it locks my healing skill and some other few, despite stating that I am required to have an off-hand codex, nothing more.
  • GahnoGahno
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    Overall the combat system is good. I Don't think this game was meant to be designed like what people are requesting to have every class feel vastly different in playstyle. I think Nexon makes these kind of games just look at Maplestory, every class is so similar in playstyle. AOE everything down. Every class will have AOE have a dash skill. Just the way skills are combo'd will be different. And the way one plays differ to the other. Either kiting the enemy or circling around the enemy. Or just tanking and burning them down. But this difference is so minor that it feels the same, but this isn't the combat system issue this is more class design or game design.

    Regardless this is still the early stages if you look at the skills for the classes from the other versions they are a lot different to what we have now. So changes will happen. To the skills or class design.

    With that being said if we ignore the skill / class playstyle the combat system is good. There are some mechanics to it and some boss mechanics that punishes you for failing such mechanics. Not your regular tank and spank.

    RedvannMoe_Loli_eGirlYzuuSamusownAlexFromCali
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