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Why is thief considered a 'hard' class?

flim_flim_
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edited 11:44AM July 7, 2018 in Thief
I've been playing thief in KMS2 and they seem to be really straightforward. I suppose it depends on your build, but a blade dance build seems like the most efficient and also easiest to use. Poison centered builds do require a bit more management of your resources but only seem to be worth taking if you want slightly higher single target dps. But if you're going for that, wouldn't a ranged class be more more effective anyways?

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  • ZyconZycon
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    What.

    Blade dance? Are you sure you're talking about the correct skill? If so, you aren't using an efficient skill (for bossing) at all. Also, it's good to understand that you aren't anywhere near endgame so you haven't come across bosses that limit abilities to attack. For instance, fire dragon (salamander) can't be attacked in the second stage while he shoots meteors out of his mouth unless you're in the very top right or top left brick. Very limiting as a thief because our range is so low. No other classes have this problem from what I can tell (correct me if I'm wrong) and it spreads to many more bosses.

    If you're judging a class by it's mobbing capabilities, understand that this is nothing like bossing. I can face tank mobs on any class and kill them. It's bossing that hurts because there's a complicated rotation that must be done on top of surviving. If we don't survive, we lose. If we don't fulfill our rotation, our already average damage gets lower and we can potentially lose on chaos raids because of a single bad thief.
  • flim_flim_
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    edited 1:02PM July 12, 2018
    Zycon wrote: »
    What.

    Blade dance? Are you sure you're talking about the correct skill? If so, you aren't using an efficient skill (for bossing) at all. Also, it's good to understand that you aren't anywhere near endgame so you haven't come across bosses that limit abilities to attack. For instance, fire dragon (salamander) can't be attacked in the second stage while he shoots meteors out of his mouth unless you're in the very top right or top left brick. Very limiting as a thief because our range is so low. No other classes have this problem from what I can tell (correct me if I'm wrong) and it spreads to many more bosses.

    If you're judging a class by it's mobbing capabilities, understand that this is nothing like bossing. I can face tank mobs on any class and kill them. It's bossing that hurts because there's a complicated rotation that must be done on top of surviving. If we don't survive, we lose. If we don't fulfill our rotation, our already average damage gets lower and we can potentially lose on chaos raids because of a single bad thief.

    Blade dance barely has lower dps than the other dps skills though, and it is definitely better for aoe. Regardless of which skill you are using for dps, I still don't really see anything thats really too "hard" with the class. What is the "complicated rotation"?
  • ZyconZycon
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    flim_ wrote: »

    Blade dance barely has lower dps than the other dps skills though, and it is definitely better for aoe. Regardless of which skill you are using for dps, I still don't really see anything thats really too "hard" with the class. What is the "complicated rotation"?

    I posted this before so I'll paste it here.

    Haste > vial > kick > surprise attack > vial > Balkan (until 30sp) > double stab > balkan immediately if cunning procs || Balkan until 70sp if no cunning > kick (off cooldown) > surprise (off cooldown) > vial (reapply poison for guile bonus damage)

    Extra:
    1. Get in the habit of using Balkan before kick when it gets off cooldown because of the chance a cunning proc will happen on the last double stab attack.
    2. Surprise can cancel out kick’s attack if done too quickly so separate them a bit timing wise. They should still both be used immediately though.
    3. SP management is a requirement. You need to constantly be aware that if you don’t have the sp for Balkan or vial, you’re going to use a basic attack which is just awful and a huge waste of dps. You will have to manage your rotation, bosses attacks, your movement/positioning, and your sp while in a fight.
    4. We are consistent damage dealers, not burst, so understand that our rotation needs to be maintained throughout all stages of the boss fight. Sometimes it can seem impossible since our range is so short but that’s just the life of a thief.

    Also, it's not "barely" a difference. It's a substantial difference. A priest can out dps you if you use blade dance instead of an actual rotation in any boss fight which is not acceptable.
    AlriimAlylioZerolio
  • HoIyHoIy
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    What's balkan?
  • RaznRazn
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    HoIy wrote: »
    What's balkan?

    Vicious Cuts
  • hankiepixhankiepix
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    Because the combos you would need to really utilise the potential dps can be hard to pull off.
    I'd like to use a pvp match with my friend of similar skill level (who was an assassin, and btw we would barely be considered even averagely good players, but here is my experience anyways).
    Naturally the first thing you would try to do in a match would be to poison, because your other skills can stack up and do extra damage with it. But when the first thing your opponent does is go invisible (plus with the dodging) poisoning an assassin can be a challenge in itself without practice. Then is trying to get close enough to your opponent without them stunning you every 2 seconds, and usually mind stealer is the best solution for that.
    Long story short , you are really punished for just spamming skills, you have to be able to keep up with your opponent and be able to pull off your combo in the right order and at the right timeotherwise you kinda lose before the match has already begun. ( especially since haste drains your spirit for the entirety of it being in effect)
    It is like maining G&W in smash, you can either play them or you can't.
    Voia
  • OhMyGodzillaOhMyGodzilla
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    theif is actual dog if you don't have less than 60ms... lol

    playing on east cost server with my friends as theif is the hardest thing ever. predicting seconds ahead of major attacks in dungeons just so i don't get hit by a lag death.

    but once you get the rotation and stuff down... you do a lot of dmg. i've been complimented on how much dps i can push out despite my ping issue.

    i find it more effective to let poison sit rather than proc it for the extra damage from surprise attack.
  • VoiaVoia
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    Is not that hard as people say..at least for me
    Thief is fast class and do much DMG (obv with combo) more combo more do damage.
    That it
    ShawnyyAkimaou