Let's enjoy the final days! Check out what changes and events started this March here: http://maplestory2.nexon.net/en/news/article/56485/sunset-in-maple-world
MapleStory 2's servers will be officially closing on May 27th: http://maplestory2.nexon.net/en/news/article/56486/service-discontinuation

"Closed Beta 2 Dungeon Sneak Peek!" by CM Cuddles

Comments

  • NekkoalaNekkoala
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 1,170
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    edited 3:15PM June 22, 2018
    HoIy wrote: »
    For your question can you tell me a successful MMORPG where the content is focus on leveling rather than end game?
    HoIy wrote: »
    Nekkoala wrote: »
    HoIy wrote: »
    Also level 50 is not the max level. It's where the tutorial level ends. I think people see level 50 and get confuse thinking that it's end game when it's where the game actually start. This is the compromise that they did in order to satisfy people who want to grind and those who don't. If you guys want to grind and do memorial difficult content you can do that.....all it takes is for you to spend one day to level past the tutorial.

    How long will people keep parroting this without having a clue?
    The 'tutorial' goes all the way up to 70, at which point the exp needed skyrockets to billinos of exp.

    HoIy wrote: »
    For your question can you tell me a successful MMORPG where the content is focus on leveling rather than end game?

    Maplestory 1.

    What are you talking about? I'm talking our current version. This thread is literally talking about our version so at least read the thread please. Even if we are talking about other version(s) my point doesn't change at all. People are currently complaining about rushing to 50 but it's the tutorial level as of now. I didn't think I need to clarify that.

    How long will people keep talking without actually doing any reading? I literally just said Maplestory doesn't even have the same leveling style that people want for MS2. Unless getting to 200 in 1 day doesn't count as rushing to late game.

    I'll reiterate - OG ms1 before it turned into dumpster fire. Current ms1 isn't even a game anymore, so why even bring that up?

    As for the level cap - yes, it's 50 for the beta, however it won't stay that way. When game releases level cap will increase to either 65 (china's cap) or 99 like in korea. Tunnelvision like this is why changes like deleting raids happened.

    And just to clarify, I wasn't trying to argue your point. Just pointing out that the tutorial is actually 1-70 and not -50 like everyone keeps saying for some strange reason.
    NyuraDanDK
  • NyuraNyura
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    Nekkoala wrote: »
    HoIy wrote: »
    Also level 50 is not the max level. It's where the tutorial level ends. I think people see level 50 and get confuse thinking that it's end game when it's where the game actually start. This is the compromise that they did in order to satisfy people who want to grind and those who don't. If you guys want to grind and do memorial difficult content you can do that.....all it takes is for you to spend one day to level past the tutorial.

    How long will people keep parroting this without having a clue?
    The 'tutorial' goes all the way up to 70, at which point the exp needed skyrockets to billinos of exp.

    HoIy wrote: »
    For your question can you tell me a successful MMORPG where the content is focus on leveling rather than end game?

    Maplestory 1.

    And, contrary to what @Holy believes/claims, FFXIV. That game is absolutely not focused on its end game content, even if it provides amazing-tier such content. There is so much to do there at many different level ranges and people don't feel any form of pressure or need to cap asap. It's one of the most successful MMORPGs out there.

    Also @Holy , I don't know who told you that MS2 is aimed at anyone in particular, it is also a MMORPG and therefore aims to encompass a large playerbase that isn't condensed to mobile gamers and people who are used to getting everything handed to them on a silver platter.

    No matter how much time passes and how many threads go up on this forum about the topic, people just continue to regurgitate the same meme about 50+ being a grind or the start of the game, but really, the game design is so bad that it's a 70level tutorial when the cap is 100. At 70, it turns from 1 bad extreme to the other, which is the very point I keep trying to make (me and everyone else with a clue + reading comprehension): That what we want for our version of MS2 is a good balance between these 2 bad extremes, neither one nor the other.

    And for that purpose, people say that while it's good that they're introducing more end game content (CBT-end game anyway since we don't know at what cap we are starting the official launch), it doesn't solve any of the other issues that we all have with dungeons and other content that is rendered obsolete.
    NekkoalaTamakiSakuraZelosoroSdragohnDanDKKoalatysleep
  • HoIyHoIy
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    edited 6:20PM June 22, 2018
    It's actually well known that FFXIV has one of the worst leveling experience to the point that people rather spend money to SKIP it in order to join end game content. It's honestly bizarre when I type on this forum because it doesn't even feel like people play the game that they talk about (Nekkoala saying MS1 focus on leveling when you can get to late game in one day)

    If you just look at any of the community threads or talk to people who play the game. Even the new help threads people try their best to let players know the leveling experience is terrible but it will get better(Example)

    It's hard to discuss about things when people just simply make stuff up or say things that are just plain wrong. I don't know why you think MS2 is not focus on casual players just look at the game. It's an MMORPG but you forget to mention that it's a cartoon cute social MMORPG. Then you guys get so passive aggressive when people disagree with you. It's like a weird echo chamber where people just complain without actually providing any real solution. Making leveling experience a lot harder after 70 or after the tutorial level is fine. It gives people the freedom of choice to do whatever they want instead of being pressure to reach the max level. It's a game design that modern and has been proven to work(see BDO)

    I guess everyone who disagree with you guys lack a clue and reading comprehension but I'd argue you guys lack perspective and consideration for game design in general. Again please tell me a solution that doesn't alienate half the player base because I have yet to read one.

    edit: Not even mentioning that the majority will always be casual players. Especially in a game like MS2.

    "mobile gamers and people who are used to getting everything handed to them on a silver platter."
    Ironic considering the only reason 1-50 is a problem is because people don't want to spend one day to get access to content. It's more realistic for them to add harder version of the dungeons then design a leveling system that is future proof so that it doesn't alienate newer players in the future.

    I also love how people in this thread talk like it's the norm that people spend one day to level to 50. I hope we can at least acknowledge that not everyone is going to play for 7-8 hours straight.
  • LockeExileLockeExile
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    I see some people are basing "end-game" on exp-to-level rather than actual content. 90% of the game's content is lower level than 50 or 70 or whatever. If you're calling that the "tutorial" then there's something wrong.
    Calwyn
  • ZelosoroZelosoro
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    edited 9:50PM June 23, 2018
    HoIy wrote: »
    Nekkoala wrote: »
    HoIy wrote: »
    Also level 50 is not the max level. It's where the tutorial level ends. I think people see level 50 and get confuse thinking that it's end game when it's where the game actually start. This is the compromise that they did in order to satisfy people who want to grind and those who don't. If you guys want to grind and do memorial difficult content you can do that.....all it takes is for you to spend one day to level past the tutorial.

    How long will people keep parroting this without having a clue?
    The 'tutorial' goes all the way up to 70, at which point the exp needed skyrockets to billinos of exp.

    HoIy wrote: »
    For your question can you tell me a successful MMORPG where the content is focus on leveling rather than end game?

    Maplestory 1.

    What are you talking about? I'm talking our current version. This thread is literally talking about our version so at least read the thread please. Even if we are talking about other version(s) my point doesn't change at all. People are currently complaining about rushing to 50 but it's the tutorial level as of now. I didn't think I need to clarify that.

    How long will people keep talking without actually doing any reading? I literally just said Maplestory doesn't even have the same leveling style that people want for MS2. Unless getting to 200 in 1 day doesn't count as rushing to late game.

    MapleStory1 has been extremely successful when most of the content was before 180+ level. Just party quests, training parties made the game extremely lively (LHC, Ludi PQ, Monster Carnival, CWKPQ, Hall of Honor). Those places were crowded constantly in every channel. The game got empty the moment they made it so that you level instantly to 200 and didn't have any new released maps for a long time (It took 3 years ish for Arcane River to finally be released) when Hall of Honor got nerfed and nobody would train anymore. The game just slowly got less populated 2-3 years after Cygnus Empress got released in GMS. Coincidently, it was at the same time, they killed party EXP, training parties, and party quests. The glory days of MapleStory were when all of the content was from 1 to 200, contrarily to 200+ where you skip all the previous content to get to 200 in 6 hours for end game bosses (actual maple.)
    NekkoalaNyuraDanDKKoalatysleep
  • ZelosoroZelosoro
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    edited 2:07AM June 23, 2018
    Axy wrote: »
    Question, are the people who want the leveling process to take a long time from the MS community? I never played the game so I don't know much about it other than reaching max level took a very long time. And if thats the case then, I believe they should stop trying to demand aspects from ms1 be implemented into ms2 cause they're both different games and ms2 was created to appeal to a wider audience. But on the flip side I do agree they should do something about the dungeons that aren't really used for anything atm, by either remaking them to end game(level 50 dungeons) or adding incentive to do them as you level.

    TL;DR - I think it's fine end game starts at level 50 and it's easy to achieve, but I think the extra dungeons should be reworked.

    Even though it is another game, we know what was appealing to MapleStory players and it was the challenge. I don't mind the game being casual and very social friendly, I actually love it and enjoy it. The issue is if I just want to socialize with people I wouldn't play a game you know? Having mini-games and party quests is fine but this will all be trivial and you get bored quite easily. It's like quick match in any games without any competitive mode. You don't feel like you're achieving anything for the time you dedicate to the game. So slowing the pace of the game is definetly something better than rushing it for 2-3 content which are dungeons and raids and getting end game gears for those raids. Training isn't even a thing so I believe they should make us experience it prior to the end game content by nerfing EXP from quests (rushing through quests and getting to 50 roughly takes 4-5 hours ish if you skip all scenes).

    As for the Dungeon limits, I don't know for you fellas but... if you are playing and expecting the game to be challenging and rewarding, you would want dungeon limits in MapleStory games. People literally farm and I would say, abuse the entry limits? To the point that people won't even bother doing dungeons and will just buy the items right off black market for peanuts. If you don't want your hard work to be rendered to nothing then you would want an entry limit because believe me, maplestory is where people farm like crazyyyyyy. And I'm not even considering the fact that "non-humans" (you know what I mean) might farm constantly and devalorize the value of your hard-gained items. Yes I will bring up the topic because it needs to be addressed before the game release.
    Nyura
  • NyuraNyura
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    Zelosoro wrote: »
    Axy wrote: »
    Question, are the people who want the leveling process to take a long time from the MS community? I never played the game so I don't know much about it other than reaching max level took a very long time. And if thats the case then, I believe they should stop trying to demand aspects from ms1 be implemented into ms2 cause they're both different games and ms2 was created to appeal to a wider audience. But on the flip side I do agree they should do something about the dungeons that aren't really used for anything atm, by either remaking them to end game(level 50 dungeons) or adding incentive to do them as you level.

    TL;DR - I think it's fine end game starts at level 50 and it's easy to achieve, but I think the extra dungeons should be reworked.

    Even though it is another game, we know what was appealing to MapleStory players and it was the challenge. I don't mind the game being casual and very social friendly, I actually love it and enjoy it. The issue is if I just want to socialize with people I wouldn't play a game you know? Having mini-games and party quests is fine but this will all be trivial and you get bored quite easily. It's like quick match in any games without any competitive mode. You don't feel like you're achieving anything for the time you dedicate to the game. So slowing the pace of the game is definetly something better than rushing it for 2-3 content which are dungeons and raids and getting end game gears for those raids. Training isn't even a thing so I believe they should make us experience it prior to the end game content by nerfing EXP from quests (rushing through quests and getting to 50 roughly takes 4-5 hours ish if you skip all scenes).

    As for the Dungeon limits, I don't know for you fellas but... if you are playing and expecting the game to be challenging and rewarding, you would want dungeon limits in MapleStory games. People literally farm and I would say, abuse the entry limits? To the point that people won't even bother doing dungeons and will just buy the items right off black market for peanuts. If you don't want your hard work to be rendered to nothing then you would want an entry limit because believe me, maplestory is where people farm like crazyyyyyy. And I'm not even considering the fact that "non-humans" (you know what I mean) might farm constantly and devalorize the value of your hard-gained items. Yes I will bring up the topic because it needs to be addressed before the game release.

    I don't mind dungeon limits at all in general, but I mind ours very much because of the current state the game progression is in. I agree with your post and points, that's precisely why we say everything we say. Everything would fall into place once the core issues have been dealt with, but as it is right now, things are very badly designed overall, and of course, some things need to change in order for others to function properly. I mean, I think it's common sense that things won't magically be fixed with just 1 change or another, everything would have to be adjusted in the overall gameplay and take its proper balancing place there.

    For anyone who claims people who complain do so without providing solutions, wellp, maybe they should look around the myriad of threads on the forum where people provide all those things. Personally, I have written all of my suggestions/thoughts/views in the survey as well and have written everything in the most detailed manner there, so the people who it concerns the most are going to read what I have to say even if I don't repeat myself 50 times in 50 different forum threads.
    Koalatysleep
  • HoIyHoIy
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    edited 4:15AM June 23, 2018
    Zelosoro wrote: »
    MapleStory1 has been extremely successful when most of the content was before 180+ level. Just party quests, training parties made the game extremely lively (LHC, Ludi PQ, Hall of Honor). Those places were crowded constantly in every channel. The game got empty the moment they made it so that you level instantly to 200 and didn't have any new released maps for a long time (It took 3 years ish for Arcane River to finally be released) when Hall of Honor got nerfed and nobody would train anymore. The game just slowly got less populated 2-3 years after Cygnus Empress got released in GMS. Coincidently, it was at the same time, they killed party EXP, training parties, and party quests. The glory days of MapleStory were when all of the content was from 1 to 200, contrarily to 200+ where you skip all the previous content to get to 200 in 6 hours for end game bosses (actual maple.)

    MS1 WAS successful when they were one of the games pioneering the genre. You have games like Runescape, WoW, MS1, Everquest etc who did the same thing until you couldn't get away with bad game design anymore. Forcing people to spend unrealistic amount of time wasn't sustainable anymore and that's why games had to change how the progression system works. When you make it so that the only way to viably grind is to play for hours on end the only people who actually have enough time were kids.

    Can anyone actually source this myth "The game got empty the moment they made it so that you level instantly to 200" though? I'd argue that the game was dying and that is the changes that had to me made. Unless we are just going to assume that every single MMORPG that exist right now just happen to abandon the old game design philosophy because they wanted to kill their game. The narrative where games suddenly die the second they rush people to late game seem so strange to me because it doesn't make sense in anyway yet that's the narrative people want to believe.

    As for people screaming "I posted solutions you just have to find it somewhere in the forum!!" etc. I actually do read the solution and they just lack realism and lack of understanding of game design in general. But I guess that's to be expected when there's a petition on the same forum demanding that we should start the game with one server when that's just asking for a fail launch. I honestly hope people stop posting in ordeals and try to find solutions that can actually be implemented while being considerate to resources on a game that already been out for years.

    Most of the time I do try to reply and explain why these solutions don't work but I guess now I need to play a game of hide and seek to find these imaginary solutions all over the forums instead of the one thread where it might matter.
  • DrakooonDrakooon
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    (:

    ---Drakooon on mobile
    Nekkoala
  • CalwynCalwyn
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    edited 1:43PM June 23, 2018
    I'm happy, so long as the founder's pack is not a heap of nonce, and the content under level 49 could be boosted and have some extra incentives outside of the cosmetics. Though, I did quite enjoy farming for the cosmetics, I'd like to see some extra rewards that could incentivise higher levelled players to replay the dungeons.
    Koalatysleep
  • AerinnAerinn
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    yall think that they, nexon america, can change core fundamentals of a game within a month. funny people.
  • BattleDuckBattleDuck
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    yea its pretty good
  • ZelosoroZelosoro
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    edited 10:21PM June 23, 2018
    HoIy wrote: »
    Can anyone actually source this myth "The game got empty the moment they made it so that you level instantly to 200" though? I'd argue that the game was dying and that is the changes that had to me made. Unless we are just going to assume that every single MMORPG that exist right now just happen to abandon the old game design philosophy because they wanted to kill their game. The narrative where games suddenly die the second they rush people to late game seem so strange to me because it doesn't make sense in anyway yet that's the narrative people want to believe.

    As for people screaming "I posted solutions you just have to find it somewhere in the forum!!" etc. I actually do read the solution and they just lack realism and lack of understanding of game design in general. But I guess that's to be expected when there's a petition on the same forum demanding that we should start the game with one server when that's just asking for a fail launch. I honestly hope people stop posting in ordeals and try to find solutions that can actually be implemented while being considerate to resources on a game that already been out for years.

    Most of the time I do try to reply and explain why these solutions don't work but I guess now I need to play a game of hide and seek to find these imaginary solutions all over the forums instead of the one thread where it might matter.

    Look, you seem to be the one lacking understanding. What we are arguing about is that the game rushes us to the end game (or make us get to end game in a matter of hours) to just get access to a few contents which are dungeons. And obviously, you would want to go to end game to get the best gears, as in all challenging games. So when you get to max level you pretty much have nothing to do except 3-5 dungeons, when literally 90% of the game are other things like quests, maps, training. There wouldn't be an issue if 30-40% of the game content was prior level 50 and then 50-60% would be above that. But nonetheless getting to a high level is making lower level dungeons, quests, and maps obsolete because you just can get better EXP and items in the higher-level maps/dungeons. For MS1 when they killed the party quests, the training parties/party exp the game definitely got emptier. When they made it so that you could level up easily to level 200 without any new content like 5th job or any new maps like Arcane river.

    As for having a single server with other regions. Do you even know why people ask that? MapleStory is a game where when you change servers you literally have to make a new account. Nothing is being transferred or saved to the other worlds you would like to go. IF they did keep that then we wouldn't have this issue (Like Overwatch) but sadly we do have this issue. That's why we all want access to each other worlds, where we can keep our characters and our progress. We don't always want to start over when we want to play with other players. I don't mind having several servers as long as it's as simple as logging out, picking that server and logging on the same character with all of our current items/progress from our original servers.
    DanDKKoalatysleep
  • BattleDuckBattleDuck
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    edited 3:01PM August 16, 2018
    .
    Koalatysleep
  • AvarAvar
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    I just want to play the game tbh
    La3elle
  • mmviimmvii
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    Would be really great to see a detailed list of clear counts for these new dungeons, and all the other ones at level 50 before CBT2 ;).
  • KoalatysleepKoalatysleep
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    Dungeon limitations are still a thing? What a joke.
  • HoIyHoIy
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    edited 7:06PM June 26, 2018
    Zelosoro wrote: »
    Look, you seem to be the one lacking understanding. What we are arguing about is that the game rushes us to the end game (or make us get to end game in a matter of hours) to just get access to a few contents which are dungeons. And obviously, you would want to go to end game to get the best gears, as in all challenging games. So when you get to max level you pretty much have nothing to do except 3-5 dungeons, when literally 90% of the game are other things like quests, maps, training. There wouldn't be an issue if 30-40% of the game content was prior level 50 and then 50-60% would be above that. But nonetheless getting to a high level is making lower level dungeons, quests, and maps obsolete because you just can get better EXP and items in the higher-level maps/dungeons. For MS1 when they killed the party quests, the training parties/party exp the game definitely got emptier. When they made it so that you could level up easily to level 200 without any new content like 5th job or any new maps like Arcane river.

    As for having a single server with other regions. Do you even know why people ask that? MapleStory is a game where when you change servers you literally have to make a new account. Nothing is being transferred or saved to the other worlds you would like to go. IF they did keep that then we wouldn't have this issue (Like Overwatch) but sadly we do have this issue. That's why we all want access to each other worlds, where we can keep our characters and our progress. We don't always want to start over when we want to play with other players. I don't mind having several servers as long as it's as simple as logging out, picking that server and logging on the same character with all of our current items/progress from our original servers.

    I haven't been checking on the forum so sorry for the late reply. You talk about lack of understanding but your whole post lack basic understanding of....everything? I don't even know where to start.

    The reason you need multiple servers is because one server wouldn't be able to handle the amount of players MS2 is going to get. So many MMORPG have failed and made a huge mistake of only having one server only for their game to fail tremendously on launch. For example even with Bless who tried to launch their game with AMAZON SCALING server that everyone preached about the server still crashed multiple times and no one could play until they add on more servers. If anything Nexon announcing that there will only be two servers is actually really ambitious of them considering Bless had to add 5 more servers, BNS had 8 servers at launched, Tera had 8 etc. Obviously it would take too much if the server has to access information from one mega server so that's why the information need to be separate.

    It's honestly hard to argue with people who talk out of their ass and I can never convince people like you or the other people I'm replying too. As you can see no matter how many times I correct you or the people earlier they just ignore the point where they are clearly wrong and start preaching about stuff that are completely made up. You guys need to grow up and do some basic research if you want your feedbacks to matter. You can't just have one server just because you want to. Take a second and learn why it's not a possibility. If Nexon release the game with one server the game is going to fail at launched and it's all thanks to people who lack basic understanding of the mmo genre or never played hyped online games before.

    As for the rushing content thing. I don't see how they are rushing you to end game when level 50 is not end game. I don't see how making leveling more tedious is going to make people enjoy the content more. You also need to consider that difficulty is subjective. Something that is easy can be hard for others. A lot of people said that they got to max in one day. I can tell you that will be a small percentage of player base who can play this game for 7-8 hour straight. This is what you guys don't understand. Every single suggestion or demands you guys make lack consideration to the majority of the player base or basic understanding of how the game should be designed.

    Do I even need to mention that there's more to do than dungeons? In fact doing dungeon is not even the main selling point of this social game? What about PVP? Mini games? Crafting? Player created content? Achievements? There so many things to do after you hit 50 yet everyone here is literally lying to themselves when they talk about how 90% of the content is rush during the leveling process to 50. Really? Just because you can clear the dungeon one time without going through them a bunch of time means that's the majority of the content? Do you people even play this game. Who would even want to do those dungeon multiple times? If you want to explore the world there's literally map quest that you can do every map.

    If the argument that there isn't enough content in general then I understand but demanding randomly specific things for no real reason seem so ironic. You guys complain about having everything handed out to you but aren't willing to get to 50 or grind past 50.

    Anyways I'm done trying to reason with people in this thread. It's like I'm babysitting with all these attacks just because I have a different point of view. "wahh u dont agree with me u dont know how to read or u dont understand or you lack common sense"

  • DatGuyGothDatGuyGoth
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    Gms2 definitely needs more dungeons cant wait