Archer Feedback

LockeExileLockeExile
Maplestory 2 Rep: 1,145
Posts: 34
Member
edited 5:13PM May 16, 2018 in Archer
Am I supposed to create a new thread for this?

I had fun playing archer. I felt powerful and had decent mobility. Some bosses were difficult when they kept charging in my face and deactivating my snipe passive (aside - that snipe passive is a great idea). It would be nice to have more options for kiting bosses or let Knights manage aggro. Explosive Salvo needs two casts to activate snipe, making it cost the same as Eagle and take much more time. It's fun to use it to dodge attacks though. Most of the skills make sense. I ended up not using the ice shot since it doesn't do much against bosses, and by extension didn't use bow swing mostly because I prefer just keeping my distance (and was running out of keys to bind skills to). I also didn't use the hawk attack. It seems very difficult to use since you optimally want to use it just before your hawk expires which means paying close attention to the timer. I'm torn on the one that changes how that piercing shot works - I'll have to run numbers to see which mode is better. Charging it up basically means using it 3x as much, which is worth it if it does more damage than rapid shot. There's probably a certain point where the bonus damage makes it worth it. It also lets you use it while snipe is *not* active, contrary to what the description says. Another bug I ran into frequently is arrow rain casting on myself even after holding the key. It happened whenever the game blipped. Sometimes the skill would cancel completely (except the sound would keep playing) if I released the key just a hair too soon.
DanDK

Comments

  • SolisSolis
    Maplestory 2 Rep: 695
    Posts: 17
    Member
    I'll add that I think I'll be making archer but it feels a little bland compared to my wizard. I don't like the fact that our AOE makes us jump backwards...it would be nice to have crit damage added some where to our talent tree as it reminds me of Sharp Eyes and Archer from MS1...I think Ice Arrow is absolutely terrible. Both Arrow Stream and Rapid Fire...feel the same...which I find lackluster. I wanted them to be different but at my testing, Rapid fire will always do more damage, even though Arrow Stream cost no SP.

    I had the issue with arrow rain not moving forward after holding it down - but never the issue with the bug. I do like Snipe.

    I do wish the % dmg increase per talent were slightly higher as I felt like I was never getting stronger, which was a little bit sad.

    In cash shop, it would be nice if we could a skin for the eagle. I think it's not the best graphic.
    DanDK
  • DreadPallexDreadPallex
    Maplestory 2 Rep: 810
    Posts: 11
    Member
    Played as an archer through the entire beta pretty much and it felt very "meh"
    Ice Arrows felt like a complete waste of skill points and Arrow Stream fellt like a more costly, harder hitting, but slower version of Rapid Fire.
    Pretty much all of the passives felt weak as they increased reeeally slowly.
    DanDK
  • DrYoshiyahuDrYoshiyahu
    Maplestory 2 Rep: 7,525
    Posts: 453
    Forum Moderator
    edited 10:09PM May 16, 2018
    Gameplay

    I do think Archers are too weak, specifically in party gameplay. I fully understand that they're a party-based class, and not supposed to thrive alone, which is true, because no other class, in my experience, struggles as much on the solo dungeons in the epic questline as Archers do. But then, even in parties and raids, where the Archer is supposed to shine, they're often neglected. Most parties are just as content with a solo-based DPS class like a Thief or an Assassin over an Archer, the premier party DPS class. Even Sharp Eyes, which is their main selling point, is often ignored by party members, even when I announce that I'm using the skill to the party.

    I think Sharp Eyes needs a buff, specifically in that it should increase critical damage, and not just crit chance. Crits are extremely weak in MS2, especially compared to MS1, but just in general as well. I've never heard of a game setting default crit damage as low as 125%. Most games are either 150% or 200%, with the ability to take it even higher than that.

    Archers, along with Assassins, are the crit classes, that was true in MS1 as it is now, and the Assassin has no trouble raising their crit damage, but Archers are relegated to a measly 125% which already sits upon the abysmal crit rate in MS2, capped out at just 40%, which is actually as low as the minimum crit rate for Bowmen in MS1. I believe this is the reason that no one cares about Archers, and specifically Sharp Eyes.

    I'd like for one of two things: Archers get 150% crit damage as default, and Sharp Eyes gives 5% crit damage per level, bringing the Archer's max potential to 200%, or, alternatively, Sharp Eyes gives 7.5% crit damage per level, allowing the whole party to hit the 200% mark.

    I'm completely fine with Sharp Eyes getting a longer cooldown to compensate; they can take away the accuracy buff as well and no one will complain, but as of right now, the current stats of the skill are so marginal, party members literally don't care whether they have it or not, even when they're standing next to an Archer in their party. That's not just sad for the Archer, it means that Nexon has poorly designed Sharp Eyes, and it's not currently filling the need it's supposed to. This may also be a reason why Archers are so unpopular, second only to Heavy Gunners. The one thing that sets them apart from the other DPS classes, a crit-based party buff, is just not good enough.

    Skills

    Yeah, the archer skills are a really interesting collection.

    You want to be able to spam Arrow Barrage like classic MapleStory, but it's so spirit-intensive and also forces you to keep moving. It's nice to have that little jump to help you keep distance, and the skill is clearly designed with grouping mobs together in mind, but it might be nice to trigger it or choose to stay still.

    Rapid Fire is your primary bossing tool, but it comes with a damage type, which forces you to either take the penalty against bosses with the same element, or work around it. This was particularly noticeable against the fire-resistant boss we got in the only raid we could do during the CBT.

    Conditioning and Bronze Eagle are unlocked very closely together, and despite the fact that Conditioning is passive and permanent, and Bronze Eagle is conditional, pun intended, and has a cooldown, Bronze Eagle is better at level 1 than Conditioning is, but only at the level you unlock it; by level 50, Conditioning is a better level 1 than Bronze Eagle. But on top of that, Conditioning is statistically better to spend points on, because Bronze Eagle has an incredibly strong level 1, and then an incredibly weak 2-10.

    Speaking of how useless Bronze Eagle is, Eagle Claw is incredibly powerful, and deals 1000+% damage with a 45% speed debuff at level 10, which is insane, but has an extremely expensive requirement of Bronze Eagle 7. Which means there may be a point where I update my skill build guide to have players remove all of the points from Conditioning and put them into Bronze Eagle and Eagle Claw because it may end up being more benefitial.

    Speaking of min-maxing, on one hand, the usage of the extremely powerful Eagle Claw removes the Bronze Eagle buff, but on the flipside, even at level 50+, that's buff is so tiny you're probably not going to notice the difference whether it's active or not.

    The same is true of Eagle's Majesty. The spirit recovery is helpful, especially against static enemies that aren't attacking the player, which means they're free to simply spam damage. But it's a slow recovery and is on cooldown for as long as its available. The damage from Eagle's Majesty, even at level 10, is an absolutely pitiful ~11.3% per second, and I couldn't care less whether Bronze Eagle is active during Eagle's Majesty or not.

    Ice Arrow and Bow Swing are really interesting because they're the two skills that people generally pay the least attention to during normal (PvE) gameplay, because they appear to be weak compared to the other skills, but in PvP, they can potentially be devastating. A two-second stun may be nominal against normal mobs, especially since they may already be dead by the time you've hit them ten times with Ice Arrow, dealing 940% damage, but against an enemy player, a two-second stun can and will be the difference between winning and losing a lot of fights. Bow Swing is similarly devastating, but specifically against melee classes. Archers tend to struggle in PvP a lot, and I think that's partly due to a lack of PvP builds.

    And then, of course, the great dichotomy of Screwdriver Shot and Precision Shooter, two of the most complex and unique skills in the game, especially considering how Snipe plays an effect, never mind the fact that Precision Shooter has a passive buff and no pre-requisites, which makes it its own skill whether the player has Screwdriver Shot or not.

    @Solis @DreadPallex just remember that Arrow Stream is the default level 1 no-spirit skill. Think of it like a basic attack. You could even unbind the basic attack from X and Ctrl and just put Arrow Stream on those buttons. Arrow Stream isn't supposed to be compared to Rapid Shot or to compete with it. It's just there so you have something to do whenever you run out of spirit.
    DanDK
  • SolisSolis
    Maplestory 2 Rep: 695
    Posts: 17
    Member
    Gameplay

    I do think Archers are too weak, specifically in party gameplay. I fully understand that they're a party-based class, and not supposed to thrive alone, which is true, because no other class, in my experience, struggles as much on the solo dungeons in the epic questline as Archers do. But then, even in parties and raids, where the Archer is supposed to shine, they're often neglected. Most parties are just as content with a solo-based DPS class like a Thief or an Assassin over an Archer, the premier party DPS class. Even Sharp Eyes, which is their main selling point, is often ignored by party members, even when I announce that I'm using the skill to the party.

    I think Sharp Eyes needs a buff, specifically in that it should increase critical damage, and not just crit chance. Crits are extremely weak in MS2, especially compared to MS1, but just in general as well. I've never heard of a game setting default crit damage as low as 125%. Most games are either 150% or 200%, with the ability to take it even higher than that.

    Archers, along with Assassins, are the crit classes, that was true in MS1 as it is now, and the Assassin has no trouble raising their crit damage, but Archers are relegated to a measly 125% which already sits upon the abysmal crit rate in MS2, capped out at just 40%, which is actually as low as the minimum crit rate for Bowmen in MS1. I believe this is the reason that no one cares about Archers, and specifically Sharp Eyes.

    I'd like for one of two things: Archers get 150% crit damage as default, and Sharp Eyes gives 5% crit damage per level, bringing the Archer's max potential to 200%, or, alternatively, Sharp Eyes gives 7.5% crit damage per level, allowing the whole party to hit the 200% mark.

    I'm completely fine with Sharp Eyes getting a longer cooldown to compensate; they can take away the accuracy buff as well and no one will complain, but as of right now, the current stats of the skill are so marginal, party members literally don't care whether they have it or not, even when they're standing next to an Archer in their party. That's not just sad for the Archer, it means that Nexon has poorly designed Sharp Eyes, and it's not currently filling the need it's supposed to. This may also be a reason why Archers are so unpopular, second only to Heavy Gunners. The one thing that sets them apart from the other DPS classes, a crit-based party buff, is just not good enough.

    Skills

    Yeah, the archer skills are a really interesting collection.

    You want to be able to spam Arrow Barrage like classic MapleStory, but it's so spirit-intensive and also forces you to keep moving. It's nice to have that little jump to help you keep distance, and the skill is clearly designed with grouping mobs together in mind, but it might be nice to trigger it or choose to stay still.

    Rapid Fire is your primary bossing tool, but it comes with a damage type, which forces you to either take the penalty against bosses with the same element, or work around it. This was particularly noticeable against the fire-resistant boss we got in the only raid we could do during the CBT.

    Conditioning and Bronze Eagle are unlocked very closely together, and despite the fact that Conditioning is passive and permanent, and Bronze Eagle is conditional, pun intended, and has a cooldown, Bronze Eagle is better at level 1 than Conditioning is, but only at the level you unlock it; by level 50, Conditioning is a better level 1 than Bronze Eagle. But on top of that, Conditioning is statistically better to spend points on, because Bronze Eagle has an incredibly strong level 1, and then an incredibly weak 2-10.

    Speaking of how useless Bronze Eagle is, Eagle Claw is incredibly powerful, and deals 1000+% damage with a 45% speed debuff at level 10, which is insane, but has an extremely expensive requirement of Bronze Eagle 7. Which means there may be a point where I update my skill build guide to have players remove all of the points from Conditioning and put them into Bronze Eagle and Eagle Claw because it may end up being more benefitial.

    Speaking of min-maxing, on one hand, the usage of the extremely powerful Eagle Claw removes the Bronze Eagle buff, but on the flipside, even at level 50+, that's buff is so tiny you're probably not going to notice the difference whether it's active or not.

    The same is true of Eagle's Majesty. The spirit recovery is helpful, especially against static enemies that aren't attacking the player, which means they're free to simply spam damage. But it's a slow recovery and is on cooldown for as long as its available. The damage from Eagle's Majesty, even at level 10, is an absolutely pitiful ~11.3% per second, and I couldn't care less whether Bronze Eagle is active during Eagle's Majesty or not.

    Ice Arrow and Bow Swing are really interesting because they're the two skills that people generally pay the least attention to during normal (PvE) gameplay, because they appear to be weak compared to the other skills, but in PvP, they can potentially be devastating. A two-second stun may be nominal against normal mobs, especially since they may already be dead by the time you've hit them ten times with Ice Arrow, dealing 940% damage, but against an enemy player, a two-second stun can and will be the difference between winning and losing a lot of fights. Bow Swing is similarly devastating, but specifically against melee classes. Archers tend to struggle in PvP a lot, and I think that's partly due to a lack of PvP builds.

    And then, of course, the great dichotomy of Screwdriver Shot and Precision Shooter, two of the most complex and unique skills in the game, especially considering how Snipe plays an effect, never mind the fact that Precision Shooter has a passive buff and no pre-requisites, which makes it its own skill whether the player has Screwdriver Shot or not.

    @Solis @DreadPallex just remember that Arrow Stream is the default level 1 no-spirit skill. Think of it like a basic attack. You could even unbind the basic attack from X and Ctrl and just put Arrow Stream on those buttons. Arrow Stream isn't supposed to be compared to Rapid Shot or to compete with it. It's just there so you have something to do whenever you run out of spirit.

    But it looks the same and is BORING. That was my point :(