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[Feedback] Dungeons and Raids

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  • JakossiJakossi
    Maplestory 2 Rep: 2,900
    Posts: 135
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    The dungeon system is pretty good and fun. But i do believe the dungeon reward limit really holds players back. I got to the point where i would play up to the dungeon limit then stop playing the game for the day as they really wasn't any point in doing so. This also meant that some players were unable to do high level dungeons for ages as their dungeon loot luck was through the floor. In my eyes this would end up killing the game off in the long run.
    Prycerious
  • AokiraiseuAokiraiseu
    Maplestory 2 Rep: 680
    Posts: 13
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    edited 6:32AM May 17, 2018
    Overall dungeon experience
    Dungeons are a compulsory part of the story-line and end-game content. They currently do a good job upholding the content they're meant to uphold BUT could also be improved in a number of ways.

    - Make them LONGER - emphasizing this in bold and italics because currently you can go through dungeons in such a short amount of time that it hurts alittle bit... even for harder bosses i've seen in KMS 2 such as pink bean give you a 15 MINUTE TIMER?!... even then I feel that there's not much to it because of that... I want to be in a dungeon for 30 minutes or even an hour.. solving different things.

    - Bigger variety - throughout the whole dungeoneering experience there are a variety of dungeons, yet again mentioned above too short.. but overall only make you do one thing opposed to completing afew things within the same dungeon - Include other things into said dungeons (Jump quests, More puzzles, Escort jobs?!, mazes, more mechanics, RIDDLES?!) It feels like a vast majority of the dungeons are just based around killing which is good.. but it's also nice to include variation inbetween.

    - Multiplayer?! - up until level 50 dungeons are solo-completed and it hurts because there's ALOT of audience and room for potential if you make them MULTIPLAYER, put in a better party finder and mix in the fact you make the dungeons more suited for multiplayer.. it'll be a big improvement (personally its boring for me and sucks completing almost every dungeon in the game solo without having to break a sweat or think...)

    - Multiple Bosses - Some dungeons there are 2 bosses but I feel as though you could put multiple bosses within the same dungeon in different rooms/routes i.e. 1 path u complete a jump quest kill the boss, 1 path you complete a maze and kill a boss) having a boss only at the end always makes the dungeons feel linear; change it up and it'll be very beneficial.

    - Weekly Limit - I think it makes sense for a daily limit but I say you take away the weekly limit.. WHY? not everyone likes to do pvp and some just like to do pve content, doing pve content without a reward is painful.. removing the weekly limit encourages people to still do dungeons more if they want to, they still get rewards from the daily limit but are still restricted to an extent.. - Strictly speaking it SUCKS when there are too much limitations.

    Daily Limit - I think added onto what I said about the weekly limit, give EACH dungeon a daily limit of 10 runs instead of an OVERALL limit of 10 runs, that'd make the game a LOT more enjoyable and not restricting, less limiting

    Emphasize: MORE PARTY PLAY LOWER LEVELS, LONGER DUNGEONS, BIGGER VARIETY, LONGER DUNGEONS
    maushunter1EvoraDanDK
  • FsiumFsium
    Maplestory 2 Rep: 910
    Posts: 2
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    Dungeons and raids are decent, but it's one of the major weaknesses of the game compared to MapleStory 1, it lack of challenge and party cooperations, take as a good example ludibrium party quest from MapleStory 1.
    The requirement of different classes to progress and multiple complex stages instead of just a DPS race.
    Also separate raids from dungeon in the 10 daily limit access, because no one will want to make a dungeon knowing they will do 1 less raid.
    Also there should be 4 man dungeons that are as hard and rewarding as the 10 man raids, for the small groups of friends to prove themselves.
    Exclusive solo dungeon like in the main questline should NOT exist, as an mmo you expect to play with your friends from the beginning, make it harder or double the health of enemies for each party member.
    Also make it XP rewarding.
    DanDK
  • FaelZagaFaelZaga
    Maplestory 2 Rep: 530
    Posts: 7
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    The count of dungeons and raids runs is out of context. I did not know about this system before and I spent all of my runs with useless dungeons because of my low score gear. When I did my first raid, I could not even get the reward in the end. Counts should be separated for dungeons and raids.
    Low level dungeons (1-49) are useless and pointless. They should not count in the daily/weekly limitation.
    maushunter1
  • PryceriousPrycerious
    Maplestory 2 Rep: 2,355
    Posts: 174
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    So many people here are talking about how they will be left behind if the dungeon limit is removed, but they will be left behind anyway by anybody who just farms up an alt character which will give them the ability to grind twice as much gear as them, or even more if they make multiple alts.
    SonokoQaradoxicalSnugglebuu
  • maushunter1maushunter1
    Maplestory 2 Rep: 400
    Posts: 3
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    I think we need an area where to say "JPQ" like in MS1 for each bunch of dungeons and raids, rather then a tab with a button that choose which dungeon you do and with who... also i can't everytime ask in the global chat for a priest or so... there should at least be a list of player interested in the dungeon i want to do or a list of party in need for more players.
    Also i can't seem to choose the dungeon BEFORE joining a party which i think should be the opposite, if there's a way and i didn't see it.... well make it more clear with a tutorial please.

    Thanks <3
  • redcloudskredcloudsk
    Maplestory 2 Rep: 1,030
    Posts: 14
    Member
    They brought every single thing from KMS2. 30 times dungeon limit was recently updated to KMS2 because people can choose faster dungeons to get materials for rumi stone upgrade. OH WAIT!!! NEXON JUST DOING NEXON THING~ Are they gonna listen to comments here? ^^ Gem stones~Rumi stones~Transcendence are coming~ Wallet warriors~~~ Here they comes~~~ ^^
    DanDK
  • XtraSoloXtraSolo
    Maplestory 2 Rep: 745
    Posts: 13
    Member
    edited 8:03PM May 17, 2018
    I feel like the dungeons and raids were good the first time around but it gets a bit tedious after a while. It's also missing the party or the group aspect, we don't have to really work together to solve puzzle or anything of that sorts. We had some in the first Maplestory like the simple math questions in ludi PQ needing multiple people to stand on blocks or maybe mazes needing multiple triggers to operate in a coordinated matter so that you can open the next portal or something.

    Clearing it with better score should also do something like increase drop chance of better items or something or else whats the point of those rank after the raids. Without that its kinda just rush in kill everything rush out and it doesn't even have a time limit so you can solo cheese it or maybe even duo cheese it if you have enough potions or a priest. Also just not giving anything for clearing after the daily 10 limit is kind of harsh... maybe it should give other things instead like onyx crystals or something... no reward is kind of dumb your just punishing your more dedicated players because they play too much.
    PryceriousDanDK
  • YellowFreakaZoidYellowFreakaZoid
    Maplestory 2 Rep: 425
    Posts: 8
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    Didn't get to really run dungeons other than for during the storyline. It was alright.
  • DanDKDanDK
    Maplestory 2 Rep: 28,935
    Posts: 2,110
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    Copy-pasting this from my overall feedback from the survey since I think the current game is doing this completely wrong.

    First off, the very concept of having solo dungeons is quite a stretch. Dungeons and Raids are designed for meeting other people and working together, much like the Party Quests of the old game. In MS1, every class had a purpose inside a PQ. In this game, every dungeon is about killing stuff in (hardly) different manners and every class just need to spam something that does damage (unless they're a support class, then they do a little supporting in between, but still while being irrelevant). You can solo dungeons and some can even solo raids, and party composition seems to be truly irrelevant. Ok, I'd understand that true solo players should have this option, but at least nerf their rewards. Right now solo players get MORE rewards per time unit of effort spent than parties who have to rely on each other to some extent (because the dungeon scales with amount of players).

    Instead, make a decent Party Finder option so solo players have no excuse for not finding someone to play with. That means, a Party Finder that works like a local autoqueue so you actually walk to the dungeon you want to do and it automatically matches you with other players that are also physically there. Having the need for people to auto-teleport to a dungeon is basically saying that you already believe the game is dead since they aren't able to find other people by themselves. Dungeons should only be accessible by showing up physically.

    You already have WAY too many dungeons. There is almost one dungeon for every single level, and levels are ridiculously easy to obtain. This means that your dungeons are low quality, almost identical and underpopulated. Remove at least half of them and make the actual dungeons challenging and unique. You could remake the removed dungeons for future content releases, saving you work and hitting two birds with one stone.

    Take some inspiration from the MapleStory PQs. Instead of mindlessly killing stuff, enforce a party composition. Have people who are skilled at other things than combat shine. Let there be areas which require agility, like movement speed or jump quests. Which require thinking, like logical puzzles. Which require teamwork, like the original Sharenian Guild Quest. You could even add some features from your minigames, like music. Have some class skills be required to trigger necessities or advantages for progression. Not just the same mindless killing for the same mindless gear.

    --

    As mentioned previously, dungeons are absolutely horrible. They're way too easy to solo and solo play is rewarded far too heavily. Solo should be the last available option, not the preferred one.

    All dungeons are revolved around killing things, which encourage no teamwork, strategy or skill. Practically any class composition and prevail because everyone can spam some kind of damage until everything is dead. Learn from the PQs and GQ from the original game and make challenges during which every class and player can shine in their own ways. Incorporate your Sandbox Elements into solving dungeons. You have so many features, use them!

    You have too many dungeons and they're of too poor quality, identical and underpopulated. Remove at least half of them and make memorable, challenging experiences instead that people will want to repeat. You could remake the removed dungeons for future content, killing two birds with one stone.

    You can reach dungeons instantly from the UI. This is bad. Have people actually travel there and give them an option to find parties with locally present players or at least be there to trigger a party search for other players. This is much more social and doesn't condemn your game from the beginning.

    The dungeons (mobs and bosses) are way too easy to beat and offer no challenge even when the only challenge is to kill things. As much as it sounds disgrateful, you didn't even manage to get that part right.

    Keep the dungeon limits in place so people are encouraged to do other things rather than grind dungeons all day. That is actually a good feature. However! If dungeons were actually challenging enough, you wouldn't need this feature...!

    All equipment including dungeon rewards are bland and repetitive. It's decent that you can obtain cosmetics from them though. But try more variation!

    If you continue down your current dungeon road, you are doomed. Why? Because a hundred other MMOs out there do what you're trying to do a million times better. So instead of focusing on mindless dungeon content, focus on what makes MapleStory great and include teamwork activities!
  • ZelosoroZelosoro
    Maplestory 2 Rep: 1,425
    Posts: 45
    Member
    For the Dungeons and Raids:
    -I really enjoyed how it is made. It's very different than Ms1. I haven't played many MMORPS (like guild wars and WoW) so I cannot tell if it's unique on its own. I have been playing Ms1 for 12 years, so this is coming from an Ms1 player point of view. What I liked was the challenge of the Fire dragon raid and actually letting the boss 1 shot you. I am glad they kept it that way. The rewards are good but I feel like if you want to get a fully upgraded Epic weapon with chaos onyx crystals it will take you a long time of raiding. I don't want it to be too easy either but I feel like dismantling weapons/armors should give you more onyx crystals because towards the end those were even harder to get than chaos onyx crystals, haha. Either let monsters drop more armors for us to dismantle or give us more crystals upon dismantling. This game is really appealing to teamwork and having several classes like how it used to be during the first 4 years of Ms1. The party finder is also a really good feature for raiding and questing or just hanging out.

    -Having a Daily dungeon limit is completely acceptable definitely needed or there would be items flowing on the black market and no one would do any efforts to raiding and would just wait for the prices to drop to buy items. This is not how it should be. The market should be for items you were not able to obtain through raiding because you were unlucky and not because you are too lazy to do them. The Party Finder is great. Keep it that way. If you have ever played Ms1 you would have a clear idea of how low and easily obtainable items are even with a daily cap on bosses/pqs. As a short-term, it sounds nice to have unlimited access to dungeons (rewards) but on the long run, everyone will feel like it is completely useless to do dungeons as you will be able to buy Epic/end game items for 10k mesos. The percentage% of obtaining an item through raiding is already high so without a daily cap, their value will definetly plummet. That kills the challenge aspect of the game faster than you can think of.
  • kawingshekkawingshek
    Maplestory 2 Rep: 6,840
    Posts: 518
    Member
    Dungeon reward for helping friends with lower level dungeon was the issue here if you progressed at different pace with others. Unable to do something without handicapping yourself. But once you had done your weekly/daily runs that's fine.

    Certain dungeons weren't even connected to the story which made those dungeons pretty useless and not so important and skipped.

    Special dungeon shouldn't limit players to account limit. (1 per day per account to do this fun dungeon). If normal dungeons has daily limit of 10 loot, might aswell do the same thing with special dungeon instead of limiting it to once a day. (Would like to see a longer version with more players such as 10 man or atleat make it 6-8)

    Certain lv 50 dungeons favored x classes which made it easier to reach the gear score for the raid. As for other classes, they had to purchase gear from previous raid player's equipment to atleast reach the gear score (weapon wise). Or be forced to fish up equipment.
  • AokiraiseuAokiraiseu
    Maplestory 2 Rep: 680
    Posts: 13
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    I feel as though a damage counter for the entire party would be great for normal raids and dungeons!!
  • ShacoTheTacooShacoTheTacoo
    Maplestory 2 Rep: 200
    Post: 1
    Member
    edited 12:43PM May 18, 2018
    The dungeon limit was an issue but i can see why, however for the western release i would say maybe increase the amount of runs you can do per day, maybe even make it 5/10 runs per different dungeon.

    make raids like 8 times per different raid or something. As you really do get through the dungeon limit very quickly which leaves yourself either leveling another character or logging off and playing a new game.

    Maybe make world bosses drop similar epic gear to make us focused on farming them as well?

    Give those who love to hack and slash have something to do, while the farmers/miners/ fishers etc have theirs.
  • HSRHSR
    Maplestory 2 Rep: 100
    Posts: 3
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    I havent managed to get to level 50 in the beta, so I didn't manage to get to the raids.

    Where dungeons were fun and all, I have good things and bad things to say.

    Good things:
    I heard that the cap for party members is 10 now. It was quite lovely, even though I haven't gone with more than one friend.
    Huge variety was amazing. I tried only 4-6 dungeons but they were rather enjoyable. Boss fighting in the end of the battles was amazing. Had lots of fun.
    Rewards were nice.

    Bad things:
    1. I heared there was a cap on the amount of awards you can get or something. This might be good if it encourages people to try different dungeons, but wont be nice if you have one dungeon you really like doing and suddenly it's not worth your time.
    2. The enemies dont give xp? I noticed that and didnt really want to waste my time killing them. Felt unrewarding to do so, so I just rushed to the boss, and it kinda took some of the fun of the dungeons.
    3. The dungeons felt kinda dull. I mean, the ones I was in had really no challenge . There was no cooperation needed in them. No puzzles, no challenges, no things only one class can do. It felt really solo focused, and that hurt the experience.
    4. Really it ended quickly. Some dungeons were single staged and felt kinda dull after playing them once or twice.
    5. Bad xp reward from the dungeons. I hoped I'd get more xp from doing a dungeon rather that talking with NPCs. Really took out the will to do dungeons.
    6. No lobbies for partying up. It was nice in old maplestory where people were yelling "j>pq" and then you could choose your members. I miss this.
  • AzurajuneAzurajune
    Maplestory 2 Rep: 400
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    The biggest thing about MS2 at it current form is the dungeon limit. 10 dungeons per day is small and that causes people to think that there will be a reset scroll of some sort that will be put in the cash shop. For me I never liked dungeon limit and it is a blatant way for a game to make players stick with their game longer since they cannot get everything they want as quick as possible by farming a dungeon or any activity that provides currency (ie dailies)

    Though I can relate to the idea that you don't want players to get to end game and quickly farm to best in slot items and then stop playing till the next major update. I believe that there should me a fine line in restriction and with a 10 dungeon limit that is shared with all dungeons really hinders players that wants to gear up. Maybe a limit for dungeons separate of each other will be a better option since there are a few end game dungeons that we can farm.

    Besides the limit I think the dungeons are enjoyable and they provide mechanics (which many just ignore) that make you engaged in the fight somewhat. I tried to get geared to try out the raid, but my drops from the dungeons did not help me get to the required item level in time and with the 10 dungeon limit I can only get so far per day.
  • SogokuSogoku
    Maplestory 2 Rep: 200
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    The dungeon Limit and Exp nerf is good for me.. because so people can't grind up to prestige lvl 100 in 1 week.

    The problem is just that you can't get any equipments etc.. after finish a dungeon.. this is the biggest problem for me. And a reason to stop playing if i can't loot anything anymore.

    Like you can do 30 dungeons in 3 days and let me say 1 dungeon / raid 4-20 minutes .. = 3,33 h per day playtime = 10 h playtime per week (until reset) only for dungeon and raids..

    So if you don't have money or can buy anything for decorations etc.. you can't do anything anymore.

    Maybe there are many side quests you can do.. but if you are end game you are going for equipment.
  • WooberWoober
    Maplestory 2 Rep: 1,205
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    edited 8:03PM May 18, 2018
    Sogoku wrote: »
    The dungeon Limit and Exp nerf is good for me.. because so people can't grind up to prestige lvl 100 in 1 week.

    Please pay attention.....people can't grind prestige 100 in 1 week because the exp gain is HEAVILY reduced after your initial DAILY 1 mil prestige exp (it's extremely noticeable even if you haven't hovered over the prestige exp bar for info). That is not a good reason to like the dungeon limit and exp nerf.
  • BruiseBruise
    Maplestory 2 Rep: 910
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    I think from what I'm seeing, people want gear to be easier to obtain, or at least to have more methods to obtain gear and upgrades. It's important for raiding, and raiding allows for community. How about adding gear or upgrades to pvp and mini games? That way people can play with smaller grind, and there is a little more competitiveness to the fun things.
  • MillnMilln
    Maplestory 2 Rep: 525
    Posts: 14
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    Dungeon Limits preventing either entry or gear acquisition does not work in North America.

    Dungeons themselves are largely uninspired and a pointless corridor of run to the end and kill the thing there. There's nothing meaningful to do. Interacting with a chicken cage or poking a stack of brambles isn't thought-provoking.
    DanDK
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