May 27th is finally upon us. Please feel free to join us on the last day as the servers come down one by one. More details here: http://forums.maplestory2.nexon.net/discussion/46192
MapleStory 2's servers will be officially closing on May 27th: http://maplestory2.nexon.net/en/news/article/56486/service-discontinuation

is it pay to win?

ShenRyujinShenRyujin
MapleStory 2 Rep: 1,395
Posts: 81
Member
in General Chat
i havent started maplestory 2 yet but im wondering if anyone can answer if the game feel pay to win for anyone who played it already
Forum_Lurker

Comments

  • KiwouixFRKiwouixFR
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 1,400
    Posts: 88
    Member
    hmmm , not really , but if you want to have the best character stats , you can unlock slot and gemms your fashion item

    fashion items on cash shop ... so ??
  • PallyCookiePallyCookie
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 2,505
    Posts: 144
    Member
    edited 4:04AM April 22, 2018
    Shikto wrote: »
    So many good players left this game in Korea because Nexon's pay to play policy.....
    Well the beginning was really rough but post restart it's not that bad.
    most items title to one character
    I can't tell exactly what he means for sure by this but I'm assuming he means the fact that:
    1.) Gear is character specific (I.E. a knight and a berserker are both warriors but will use different armors)
    2.) You can't trade end-game gears
    While I am not a fan of class individual armors it also does keep a bandwagoned class from inflating gears and other things related to classes that share the same archtype like we see in MS1. (I.E. kaiser release blew up warrior gear prices)
    As for the second point it's helpful in avoiding people buying gear for real money. So it's less pay to win from the P2P focus. And honestly now that gear doesn't blow up when you fail enchantments past 9 you can always wear the locked gear until you enchant something better it's not like you have to start from scratch anymore... along with the fact it isn't that hard to get end game gear plus make progress on it I don't see it being the end of the world should you main multiple characters.
    selling skins affecting in actually game play
    This is really just for min-maxers more than anything. You don't need to min max to raid and such to have fun and complete the content within the game. Speaking as a whale in MS1 the fact that there aren't raids locked ENTIRELY behind paywall (IM LOOKING AT YOU WILL AND HARD LUCID) due to pay to win RNG methods for upgrading such as cubes or reduced party sizes (maple 1 has 6 people allowed max versus 10 for ms2) I'm okay with people wanting to upgrade stats and such via gems added to cash shop clothes. I mean I'm not okay with it in the sense of "slippery slope" but rather I know it's not that harmful of an addition and only lets you clear raids and bosses faster. (cash shop does seem to follow a pay for convenience path versus pay to win)
    forcing players to buy gambling items to play actual game
    I wish I could speak on this. It's too vague.
    gem stone
    rumi stone (players need to spend at least $3000-5000 for this content)
    I need more time spent to know about rumi stones. Gem stones are the upgrade for end game gear but I don't get how that's specifically pay to win. You can get them easily enough on your own iirc...
    level up system (fishing, playing instruments)
    Really vague as well what does this mean? Leveling up in MS2 from what I've experienced as well as others is VERY, VERY FAST. People who pay the subscription fee (it's an optional thing that gives you some benefits) can get a 20% exp bonus from playing but that's really not needed when you can level doing almost everything plus you level fast through quests and such as is.

    As for instruments... Don't get what he means but you can buy extra nice instruments in the cash shop of course. Some that give special effects, some that sound nicer, etc. It's cosmetic. You CAN on the other hand iirc pay to bot by paying for a nx/merit item that lets you afk while you fish. So maybe he meant that?
    LuxAmari
  • lazimilazimi
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 3,120
    Posts: 310
    Member
    its pay to win because u have boxes in nx cash change the options ......
  • SaitanaSaitana
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 5,060
    Posts: 372
    Member
    edited 5:20AM April 22, 2018
    Aside from KMS2 and CMS2, lets see what GMS2 has to offer before saying anything.
    (ง´• ヘ •`)ง
    Forum_Lurker
  • AyzawaAyzawa
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 2,600
    Posts: 85
    Member
    It's really gear grind heavy. A lot of items are not tradable so even spending plenty of $$ won't bypass some aspects. Everyone is in for the long haul of grinding.
    MkroaatForum_Lurker
  • KeenoKeeno
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 3,040
    Posts: 148
    Member
    In it's current state in kms2 and cms2 there are certain things that I would consider p2w or pay 2 progress but we wont know what we are going to get till launch or till they say something.
    Forum_Lurker
  • BluclueBluclue
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 5,190
    Posts: 434
    Member
    i feel like the p2w aspect comes with a grain of salt. Honestly you can be F2P and still clear content. You see p2w players doing insane dps and you go like :thats not fair. But you don't need that kind if dps to clear the game if you dont want to pay. Also there are ways u can get merit for free (albiet very slowly)
  • BluclueBluclue
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 5,190
    Posts: 434
    Member
    The game can be cleared and enjoyed without spending a cent. The fact that p2w options exists wont hinder your ability to enjoy the game. Unless you are one jealous person.
  • NorthboundNorthbound
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 3,145
    Posts: 119
    Member
    KMS2 and CMS2 are both pay-to-win.
    Forum_Lurker
  • ShenRyujinShenRyujin
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 1,395
    Posts: 81
    Member
    edited 2:51PM April 22, 2018
    Bluclue wrote: »
    i feel like the p2w aspect comes with a grain of salt. Honestly you can be F2P and still clear content. You see p2w players doing insane dps and you go like :thats not fair. But you don't need that kind if dps to clear the game if you dont want to pay. Also there are ways u can get merit for free (albiet very slowly)

    can u tell me wat aspect makes it pay to win? im probly gonna play maplestory2 either way but im curious how the system kinda run on this topic like is it that big a difference where if a person keep putting money in where 1 person can do as much dmg as 10 ppl, just better gear wit abit more stats, or is it just like a boost that can make everything easy(not gonna be jealous only wanna kno the potential of things) ? also wat about pvp aspects ?
    Forum_Lurker
  • DanDKDanDK
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 33,645
    Posts: 2,569
    Member
    Bluclue wrote: »
    The game can be cleared and enjoyed without spending a cent. The fact that p2w options exists wont hinder your ability to enjoy the game. Unless you are one jealous person.

    But P2W is defined by paying to gain clear advantages over people who are not paying. Clearing content faster and more easily definitely falls under that category. Being jealous has nothing to do about it, it's whether people are equal in terms of gameplay. The question is how much and whether the community will tolerate it. The bottom line of P2W is whether it takes away the non-paying player's sense of achievement when playing the game - what you might call jealousy. If the non-paying player doesn't care, no harm is done, but otherwise the P2W will limit people's motivation to play to improve when others can take shortcuts.
    Forum_Lurker
  • ShenRyujinShenRyujin
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 1,395
    Posts: 81
    Member
    edited 3:26PM April 22, 2018
    But P2W is defined by paying to gain clear advantages over people who are not paying. Clearing content faster and more easily definitely falls under that category. Being jealous has nothing to do about it, it's whether people are equal in terms of gameplay. The question is how much and whether the community will tolerate it. The bottom line of P2W is whether it takes away the non-paying player's sense of achievement when playing the game - what you might call jealousy. If the non-paying player doesn't care, no harm is done, but otherwise the P2W will limit people's motivation to play to improve when others can take shortcuts.[/quote]

    that is very true especially since for gaming there has been big controversy of loot boxes and pay to win like starwars battlefront 2 topic in the last year, so far the only game i experienced with fair micro transaction is warframe but im hoping ms2 micro transaction isnt so bad/noticeable and not become another dragon nest
    Forum_Lurker
  • PallyCookiePallyCookie
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 2,505
    Posts: 144
    Member
    edited 3:38PM April 22, 2018
    DanDK wrote: »
    But P2W is defined by paying to gain clear advantages over people who are not paying. Clearing content faster and more easily definitely falls under that category. Being jealous has nothing to do about it, it's whether people are equal in terms of gameplay. The question is how much and whether the community will tolerate it. The bottom line of P2W is whether it takes away the non-paying player's sense of achievement when playing the game - what you might call jealousy. If the non-paying player doesn't care, no harm is done, but otherwise the P2W will limit people's motivation to play to improve when others can take shortcuts.
    It isn't defined by anything. Pay to win is very subjective.
    Best way is try to take it as very literal in wording.

    If you can essentially only beat end-game content via funds through paying real cash then it's pay to win. If the systems are designed to force or heavily influence you into paying because the grind is too hard or next to impossible in order to get to end game without paying then it's pay to win.

    If a game is easy enough to clear with friends and someone can pay to be stronger and clear faster that's not exactly pay to win. That's just paid advantages.



    MisterrViridiRain
  • MisterrMisterr
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 1,100
    Posts: 21
    Member
    its not p2w unless u play assassin and need them funds
  • DanDKDanDK
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 33,645
    Posts: 2,569
    Member
    It isn't defined by anything. Pay to win is very subjective.
    Best way is try to take it as very literal in wording.

    If you can essentially only beat end-game content via funds through paying real cash then it's pay to win. If the systems are designed to force or heavily influence you into paying because the grind is too hard or next to impossible in order to get to end game without paying then it's pay to win.

    If a game is easy enough to clear with friends and someone can pay to be stronger and clear faster that's not exactly pay to win. That's just paid advantages.

    As I see it it's just a choice of words then. When people say P2W they generally mean paid advantages. It's obvious that any MMO can be cleared by endless grinding, unless it's completely screwed up. So by your definition, almost nothing will ever be categorized as P2W. But what people are generally upset with are paid advantages and when those advantages create too large a gap, people will lose motivation and leave the game.
    Forum_Lurker
  • BluclueBluclue
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 5,190
    Posts: 434
    Member
    @ShenRyujin i think in PVP the gears are nerfed to make it more balanced. But with regards to PVE then yes, 1 player can do like maybe 3-8 player's worth of damage if they are pimped enough. Compared to someone living off the most basic of gears (some casual guy with only like 15 hours on record) 0 enhancements etc etc
  • VegtableVegtable
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 545
    Posts: 8
    Member
    The game isn't released yet, so nobody is certain on the cash shop yet, then again we're talking about Nexon here... (╯°□°)╯︵ uoxǝN
    Most MMOs start off light with just cosmetic which is reasonable on a games release. A couple months down the line, when people are invested in the game; that is when they will release the heavy P2W elements.

    Currently in the korean version they have items like the auto fishing item. Only available through real money, lets people afk and gain exp. (That is P2W)

    P2W is quite a touchy subject, there is no point being in denial though, there is a lot elements with aspects where real life money can be spent in MS2.
    I beleive everyone should give MS2 a try and feel whether they can find the cash shop tolerable. Some people feel it is justified to pay $100+ a month whilst some people feel outraged even spending that much throughout a year.
    Forum_Lurker
  • MadripoorMadripoor
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 670
    Posts: 17
    Member
    Well...I hope its not too P2W...but I also hope its not extremely grindy O_O.
    Forum_Lurker
  • ShenRyujinShenRyujin
    MapleStory 2 Rep: 1,395
    Posts: 81
    Member
    Bluclue wrote: »
    @ShenRyujin i think in PVP the gears are nerfed to make it more balanced. But with regards to PVE then yes, 1 player can do like maybe 3-8 player's worth of damage if they are pimped enough. Compared to someone living off the most basic of gears (some casual guy with only like 15 hours on record) 0 enhancements etc etc

    ah thats good to kno about pvp atleast ty but for the the pve i wanted to kno whether a person who got end game stuff only by grinding vs end game of p2w players gap difference rather than a low gear vs high gear